Exotic armory

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

7 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Except many people, as has been pointed out many times before, don't enjoy raids. I don't have the requisite lack of imagination to extract fun from repeating the same content over and over for 22 weeks.

But you'd rather repeat open world content for 22 weeks? 😕

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

6 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Except maybe you should read the other posts I've made in this thread, where I have been approaching the conversation from the point of either:

A: Making stat swapping available to everyone (what I actually think).

or

B: Making Legendaries tradable or available for direct purchase from ANet (which I don't actually agree with).

 

The second I've played as obnoxiously as I could in order to hold a mirror up to raiders and elitists to show them how it looks when someone tells you you don't deserve quality of life improvements.

In response, people have suggested I pay to be carried through raids, which is time "playing" that I wouldn't be enjoying.

Also, to state: Stat swapping is easy

Ascended & legendary are the same and are only 5% Total difference.  ~7% with stat infusions.

Ascended trinkets (Back, earrings, rings, neck) are pretty easy to get and they cost minimal amounts to restat when needed.  Weapons are cheap, too, and can be acquired for a one-time cost of ~50g each then stat changing them is only, at most, ~10g per weapon.  Given my other calculations, it'd cost you around 30g to stat swap everything and get  a new armor set.  The same amount of gold you'd make in 15 days doing just your dailies.  Now, I have to wonder, what in Tyria are you doing that would require more stat swapping than a simple total gear change?

[Dante.1763]

7 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

But you'd rather repeat open world content for 22 weeks? 😕

Already do, so yes, if i could play 22 weeks of open world PVE(no raids), having to do specific tasks and get a legendary armor set id be ecstatic.

No different than doing 22 weeks of PVP, or 22 weeks of WVW. wed at least get it for just playing the mode, like the other two armor sets.

 

But uh...isnt this kinda off topic? Or has the topic drifted so much that it doesnt matter? xD

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

5 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Already do, so yes, if i could play 22 weeks of open world PVE(no raids), having to do specific tasks and get a legendary armor set id be ecstatic.

No different than doing 22 weeks of PVP, or 22 weeks of WVW. wed at least get it for just playing the mode, like the other two armor sets.

 

But uh...isnt this kinda off topic? Or has the topic drifted so much that it doesnt matter? xD

If it's no different than 22 weeks of PvP or WvW, what's the issue with it being 22 weeks of raids, then?

[Dante.1763]

Just now, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

If it's no different than 22 weeks of PvP or WvW, what's the issue with it being 22 weeks of raids, then?

 

 

WVW and PVP armors can be obtained for just playing(maining the mode) the mode the player enjoys.

 

A pve main CANNOT obtain legendary armor by just playing the mode that they enjoy. They MUST do content anet designed for the top players in the game(anets own words.), or they will NEVER obtain the armor. Content the player may not even enjoy after trying out(As is the case with me. i can do raids comfortably, but it isnt fun nor enjoyable for me. It ruins my game experience, and id be better off never setting foot in raids, but i have no choice in the matter at the current time, i hope it changes.)

 

Now, i should add, i dont have an issue with Envoy armor being stuck behind raids, i really do think it should remain as such, it is a skin that should keep its status as being obtained from the hardest content in game, and i do think its a shame raids never got more development. 

 

However, i think PVE needs a set that can be obtained by just playing PVE. To make up for the lack of doing content meant for the top players in the game, it would not be given a unique skin(at least not fully. The current ascended armor + some glowey bits is all), nor would it be anywhere as cheap to make, costing more than a Gen 2 Weapon(including the cost of the precursors) per armor piece. It would not be just "given away" and the requirements could be artificially inflated to make it take 22 weeks minimum. Thus only letting dedicated players to open world pve get it.

 

 

 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

14 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

 

 

WVW and PVP armors can be obtained for just playing(maining the mode) the mode the player enjoys.

 

This isn't true for PvP.  You need ranks and it's even more gated than raids (EG, your personal skill and the skill of the teatm doesn't make gathering the materials any faster.)
Even WvW has gating via rank requirements.

 

Quote

A pve main CANNOT obtain legendary armor by just playing the mode that they enjoy.

Raids are PvE.  Nothing anyone says, does, or complains about will ever change the fact that raids are PvE.

 

Quote

They MUST do content anet designed for the top players in the game(anets own words.), or they will NEVER obtain the armor. Content the player may not even enjoy after trying out(As is the case with me. i can do raids comfortably, but it isnt fun nor enjoyable for me. It ruins my game experience, and id be better off never setting foot in raids, but i have no choice in the matter at the current time, i hope it changes.)

Just like you must do fractal t4s & a collection to get the pve legendary backpiece or 120 wins in pvp for the pvp backpiece. 

If open world was the only way to g et legendary armor, I'd be rather miffed.  I really dislike open world for a few reasons.  Primarily, though, the bosses and enemies in there have maybe three attacks that can be easily dealt with as they only require very minimal coordination, so they become damage sponges with a massive HP bar that barely moves because only 2-6 players are actually doing DPS while the rest afk auto for 500 DPS.

 

Quote

Now, i should add, i dont have an issue with Envoy armor being stuck behind raids, i really do think it should remain as such, it is a skin that should keep its status as being obtained from the hardest content in game, and i do think its a shame raids never got more development. 

 

However, i think PVE needs a set that can be obtained by just playing PVE. To make up for the lack of doing content meant for the top players in the game, it would not be given a unique skin(at least not fully. The current ascended armor + some glowey bits is all), nor would it be anywhere as cheap to make, costing more than a Gen 2 Weapon(including the cost of the precursors) per armor piece. It would not be just "given away" and the requirements could be artificially inflated to make it take 22 weeks minimum. Thus only letting dedicated players to open world pve get it.

This is the only way I can see it getting implimented, however, you and only maybe a handful of others really want to have it be this way.  So many others in this thread (And others) just want it to be easier than raids.  If it required a similar effort to Aurora & Vision to make per piece, I'd be behind an open world set.

[Khisanth.2948]

On 8/19/2021 at 9:42 AM, Rod.6581 said:

This is too random not to be a trolling attempt by OP.

A troll would be an improvement

 

On 8/19/2021 at 2:35 PM, Mungrul.9358 said:

So I earn a fair chunk of cash in the real world doing  real work. This means I haven't really got time to waste working in a game, so I'm prepared to pay real money to buy Legendaries. Let me buy my way through the legendary armory with real money.

That was the original plan. They only stopped due to people complaining. Probably a vocal minority but I doubt anyone has data for actual numbers.

 

You can still pay people to do the vast majority of the tasks involved in acquiring legendary items.

[ArchonWing.9480]

43 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

 

 

 

 

A pve main CANNOT obtain legendary armor by just playing the mode that they enjoy. They MUST do content anet designed for the top players in the game(anets own words.), or they will NEVER obtain the armor.

 

A WvW only main cannot get legendary earrings or amulets by playing exclusively the mode they enjoy. They are also no WvW specific legendary weapons, and all gen 2+ require pve. They would also be cut off from a good chunk of AP as well.

 

And of course, being able to stat change quickly is much more significant in WvW; more so anywhere in pve besides raids. This is quite the contrast to PvP, which uses its own stats and thus stat changing has no effect on them.

 

 

And this is actually fair. You should have to leave the mode you don't play sometimes.

 

The idea that there's some kind of PvP/WvW bias is a horrible joke.

Edited August 20, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Pifil.5193]

16 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

This isn't true for PvP.  You need ranks and it's even more gated than raids (EG, your personal skill and the skill of the teatm doesn't make gathering the materials any faster.)
Even WvW has gating via rank requirements.

 

Raids are PvE.  Nothing anyone says, does, or complains about will ever change the fact that raids are PvE.

More gated than raids? No, it really isn't. PvP requires you to get to rank 20 before you're allowed into Ranked which is a pretty low bar. Rank 20 that takes about 30 wins or at worst 100 losses in Unranked games. When you're playing in a PvP leagure you get more pips in your reward tracks if you win so your skill and the skill of the team definitely does make it quicker. By the time you get enough Skirmish tickets to get the first piece of WvW armour you'll have bypassed the WvW rank requirement. Your team winning definitely helps there too. More pips.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that open world should be the only way to get PvE Legendary Armour but GW2 (like GW1) is split into Cooperative and Competitive modes. Cooperative GW2 has all the flavours of PvE (open world, dungeons, fractals, strikes and raids) and Competitive has two flavours of PvP (WvW and sPvP). So Cooperative has one set of Legendary armour obtainable from the hardest content and Competitive has two. 

 

Raids are closed, instanced PvE designed for the top tier hardcore PvE players. In some ways it's similar to how sPvP is closed, instanced PvP for the more hardcore PvP players (but sPvP has a queue system so that takes care of the need to organise a group).

 

What a lot of people would like is Legendary Armour from open world PvE in much the same way that WvW Legendary armour is obtained from open world PvP.

[Dante.1763]

35 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

 

What a lot of people would like is Legendary Armour from open world PvE in much the same way that WvW Legendary armour is obtained from open world PvP.

Thank you for that whole write up, it was on point.

 

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Raids are PvE.  Nothing anyone says, does, or complains about will ever change the fact that raids are PvE.

Raid are pve yes, pve content meant for the best players in the game, not for everyone, per Anets own words and design. Which is why the Envoy Armor Skin should remain locked behind raids, and a regular non unique skin legendary quality armor be added to pve.

 

Just like you must do fractal t4s & a collection to get the pve legendary backpiece or 120 wins in pvp for the pvp backpiece. 

 

correct, but you dont have to to do t4 CMS to get the backpack.

If open world was the only way to g et legendary armor, I'd be rather miffed.  I really dislike open world for a few reasons.  Primarily, though, the bosses and enemies in there have maybe three attacks that can be easily dealt with as they only require very minimal coordination, so they become damage sponges with a massive HP bar that barely moves because only 2-6 players are actually doing DPS while the rest afk auto for 500 DPS.

and i, and players like me who want an open world armor, dislike raids. What you described is how we feel stepping into raids, but for different, numerous reasons that go beyond "Not trying, or not being good", Some of us CAN do raids and absolutely HATE them, doing raids KILLS our fun, and our enjoyment of the game.

 

This is the only way I can see it getting implimented, however, you and only maybe a handful of others really want to have it be this way.  So many others in this thread (And others) just want it to be easier than raids.  If it required a similar effort to Aurora & Vision to make per piece, I'd be behind an open world set.

 

I am one of those who is 50/50 on difficulty levels for raids, it would at least open the door more for players and give them a taste, but i dont think that the Envoy armor skin should ever be made easier to obtain.

 

A open world set should not be easier, or less time consuming than raid /wvw/ or pvp armor. Those of us who are more reasonable realize that if it was to be added, it would be expensive, time consuming and a pain but we would be able to get it doing the content we enjoy doing, how we want to do it, and when we want to do it.

 

 

Those others who want it given to them, are flat out wrong, and should not be taken seriously, as even i do not take them seriously, they are being silly and entitled(just like this thread honestly xD)

 

 

 

I bolded my responses ^^

[Khisanth.2948]

56 minutes ago, Pifil.5193 said:

instanced PvP for the more hardcore PvP players

Uh ... what? So hardcore that they barely know how the mode works? 😛

[Rinagal.9235]

1 hour ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Raids are PvE.  Nothing anyone says, does, or complains about will ever change the fact that raids are PvE.

 Open world and raids are for sure both PvE, but they're different modes by design, one is instanced cooperative and almost entirely consists of series of encounters, and another is permanent world (well actually OW locations also instances, but for technical reasons, not by design purposes) with many diverse activities and not defined group size (from solo to almost houndred). Saying raids and open world is the same mode because they're both PvE modes is the same as saying sPvP and WvW modes is the same mode because they're both PvP modes.

 

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

A WvW only main cannot get legendary earrings or amulets by playing exclusively the mode they enjoy.

And i think this should be adressed at some point, just as i hope for open world legendary armor.

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

They are also no WvW specific legendary weapons, and all gen 2+ require pve.

First generation of legendary weapons can be bought in trading post, so legendary weapons aren't locked behind any game mode at all, only skins are (second generation). Only accessories locked behid open world pve.

 

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

And of course, being able to stat change quickly is much more significant in WvW; more so anywhere in pve besides raids. This is quite the contrast to PvP, which uses its own stats and thus stat changing has no effect on them.

Constant stat swaping is needed for optimisation, and not in anyway is a necessity, it's true for both WvW and raids, you need 2 sets of equipment in WvW for comfortable play, one for roaming and one for blob fights. Same goes for raids, you can beat most bosses with the same squad composition, only few players in raid need second set of equipment to do some specific role. People constantly changing builds on each boss is overoptimisation to make bosses easier and faster.

Open world players also can make good use of legendary equipment, power build on average much faster deals with groups of low level mobs, but condi builds deal better with targets with protection or high toughness, at the same time their is situations when you deal with champions, and if there's not enough players or you're alone, having access to defensive stat combinations and being able to make self-sustainable build might easily make the difference between win and lose. Open World doesn't consist only of zergs and meta-events.

PvP in general harder than PvE by concept, and raids harder than open world and because of this you make an assumption that convinience of players in this modes is justified, but i don't think it should be an argument. Legendary needed to be able freely experiment with builds and by that get fun and enjoyment from GW2's combat system, and if you deny OW players have their own legendary armor, you basically deny them privilege to get maximum out of GW2's combat, and only purpose for this is to force those players to play modes that so happens you like, and they don't..

Edited August 20, 2021 by Rinagal.9235

[ArchonWing.9480]

46 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

First generation of legendary weapons can be bought in trading post, so legendary weapons aren't locked behind any game mode at all, only skins are (second generation). Only accessories locked behid open world pve.

I know. That's why I mentioned Gen 2 in particular.

 

 

 

Quote

Constant stat swaping is needed for optimisation, and not in anyway is a necessity, it's true for both WvW and raids, you need 2 sets of equipment in WvW for comfortable play, one for roaming and one for blob fights. Same goes for raids, you can beat most bosses with the same squad composition, only few players in raid need second set of equipment to do some specific role. People constantly changing builds on each boss is overoptimisation to make bosses easier and faster.

 

For WvW, the thing is your opponents are also capable of changing stats and entire builds. This alone sets it apart from anything else listed.

 

Changing stats in raids is needed because some boss encounters are drastically  different  and also because people can drop out at any time. This is not like Open World because the loss of 1 person is a very big deal. I would sincerely disagree that it is over-optimization is a problem. Having people being able to take over a certain role can be extremely helpful.

 

In my experience, there's already a lot of downtime in raids. So anything that reduces it is quite good, regardless.

 

The stakes are simply higher in either, and the impact of underperforming players is higher in WvW, raids or (even) fractals then most cases in Open World.  Failing in a raid means you just wasted potentially an hour or more of people's time. Failing in WvW can mean your whole map is taken and can ruin the experience for everyone on the server.

 

 

At the end of the day, the game isn't just about the player. It's also about their teammates in content that demands it. Not that you need legendary or even ascended at all. It's more of a mentality thing after all.

 

This is not to say that one can just goof off in open world (but it is true for most of it). But if the only thing you can think of is condi and power; something that can be handled with the default templates, that's just simply nowhere on the same level. Not to mention in many cases in OW; you can simply break combat.

 

Not that it was really the point of my post though... If anything fractal players are probably the worst off as their content is the most gear gated of them all.

 

I personally think pigeonholeling oneself is by choice, and yes I don't agree with WvWers wanting everything in pve either, unless somehow it really ruins their WvW experience.

Edited August 20, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Rinagal.9235]

19 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

For WvW, the thing is your opponents are also capable of changing stats and entire builds. This alone sets it apart from anything else listed.

Isn't it a consequence of just having such feature? I mean by design stat swapping is QoL feature and shouldn't affect your effectiveness in any mode, beside that we are talking about WvW, that means you don't have full control over what your next encounter will be therefore can't properly prepare, and for sure not supposed to stand in front of enemy changing your stats and build. So you need legendary armor because your opponents also may have it.

 

32 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Changing stats in raids is needed because some boss encounters are drastically  different  and also because people can drop out at any time. This is not like Open World because the loss of 1 person is a very big deal. I would sincerely disagree that it is over-optimization is a problem. Having people being able to take over a certain role can be extremely helpful.

Most bosses don't require any change in composition in order to kill them without problems, well balanced composition with meta-builds will do just fine. I didn't kill all bosses, and don't even tried (know tactics) all bosses, but i doubt you can list more then 4-5 bosses where specific roles are indeed required, and not just optimisation. People drop out at any time is an organisation failure by players, in other games for such situations backup players exist, in any way you'll want to fill empty spot with new player. Players with legendary armor covering up all roles isn't intended player behavior by developers, otherwise i suppose they would make sure that players able to get legendary armor before they step in raids, not when they farm it for many weeks, because raids with ascended gear and less aren't protected from such problems either.

 

While i can agree that legendary gear more impactful in raids and WvW, i think players tries to get out of it direct advantage over others players, while intended to be QoL to just try different builds when they want to,  not because they forced by circumstances and because of that this factor shouldn't affect whether legendary armor should be given to OW or not.

[ArchonWing.9480]

17 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said:

Isn't it a consequence of just having such feature? I mean by design stat swapping is QoL feature and shouldn't affect your effectiveness in any mode, beside that we are talking about WvW, that means you don't have full control over what your next encounter will be therefore can't properly prepare, and for sure not supposed to stand in front of enemy changing your stats and build. So you need legendary armor because your opponents also may have it.

 

It's not the result of the armory, but there are simply things that may require more counterplay.Part of this could be blamed on "build wars" but it's not merely just a QoL simply just because it's more dynamic than the fixed nature of pve fights.

 

 

Quote

 

Most bosses don't require any change in composition in order to kill them without problems, well balanced composition with meta-builds will do just fine. I didn't kill all bosses, and don't even tried (know tactics) all bosses,

 

Umm, so is this just based on assumption?

 

Even the very first boss in raids, Vale Guardian, has a specific aggro mechanic that doesn't always apply to other bosses, and also a very specific condi role.

 

Roles are very much intended, even if you choose to ignore or bypass them. I am sure very good players in meta builds can simply brute force it, but that is still neither here or there.

 

 

Quote

While i can agree that legendary gear more impactful in raids and WvW, i think players tries to get out of it direct advantage over others players, while intended to be QoL to just try different builds when they want to,  not because they forced by circumstances and because of that this factor shouldn't affect whether legendary armor should be given to OW or not.

 

Not on its own at least. Note that I also was fine with earrings being connected to open world, regardless of "need" or not. No reasonable WvW'er would claim the lack of legendary earrings amounts to anything that affects their gameplay.  But if we go this route, armor/runes on their own are not particularly impactful either.

 

But like I said, it's just not comparable to trying new builds in what is by and large a sandbox environment with relatively few consequences vs content where role does matter a lot.

 

However, I also don't believe need is a completely disconnected thing either. Ascended gear drops rather frequently in fractals for example, since it's required for progression.

Edited August 21, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Rinagal.9235]

18 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Umm, so is this just based on assumption?

 

Even the very first boss in raids, Vale Guardian, has a specific aggro mechanic that doesn't always apply to other bosses, and also a very specific condi role.

Partially, i didn't touch wings 5 and 6 at all, otherwise i've seen/killed almost everything and only boss that requires to do very specific role with very specific build and stat combination is hand kiter on Deimos. I heard something about pylons on Qadim, but if i undestand right no specific stat combination required there, maybe some tweks to build, so legendary aren't required, What about VG, iirc he's just tanked by player with highest toughness value, and ussualy tank changes only few pieces to make sure he has a very little more toughness then anyone else in a squad, nothing really specific about it and you don't need stat swap all your gear, only around 2-3 pieces. There is some bosses that might requre to take some usefull abilities, but again, no stat swap required.

 

 

[Rogue.8235]

A lot to unpack here

 

On 8/19/2021 at 4:56 PM, Mungrul.9358 said:

Hah, keep telling yourself that. At the end of the day, ANet don't make money off you grinding away. In fact, they lose it, because you're taking up compute cycles without paying them for the use.

If they let me buy Legendaries, that'd be actual, y'know, real world money that they could use to pay their staff and buy new equipment.

 

Yeah, I'm really beginning to like this idea!

I've got the money, and it's obvious these mooks grinding away for half a year to get it for "free" don't have it.

G'wan ANet, let me buy Legendaries and give you actual cash rather than increased bills for no return!

I'm obviously better than them, because someone's paying me in cold hard moolah rather than fool's gold.

I deserve it.

They don't.

Your grasp of the financial strategies of software and tech firms is extremely lacking.  Perceived value is how corporate level finance works rather than the outdated 20th century thinking better suited for manufacturing firms.  This is why companies like Amazon and Google constantly acquire tech companies and announce developments.  ArenaNet must adopt more service-based and R&D-based strategies as cost-based strategies do not synergizeat all with these industries.

 

Part of perceived value for MMO's is player activity.  Those grinding away at the game provide benefits not translated on the financial statements.  This concept is similar to brand management principles, but differ in execution.

 

You then devolve into a juvenile tangent.  I'll leave that part alone for sanity's sake.

 

On 8/19/2021 at 8:30 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

Yup, because the economy is more important than gameplay.

You misunderstand the existence of macro-economies.  The economy of GW2 is important in that it adds a level of accessibility to the mechanics of the game (mainly equipment).  It allows for specialization and trade so that each individual can focus on what they want to.  Collapsing the economy will have dire effects on player attitudes of in-game activities.  For example, players will feel that some enjoyable content is detrimental.  Others will feel forced to partake in content that they really don't want to.  Introducing elements of dissatisfaction on such a global scale will kill the perceived value of the firm's products, which leads to cascades of negative financial consequences.  

 

NCSoft made a huge strategic decision that massively and negatively affected ArenaNet during the 2018Q4 through 2019Q2 recessional trend.  And this was a purely corporate decision outside of ArenaNet's control that didn't include any self-harm to the products.  If ArenaNet collapses the economy, NCSoft's knee-jerk reaction will be far worse.

 

This is all due to how integral the in-game economy is to gameplay and the player base.

 

On 8/19/2021 at 9:24 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

Huh, then Destiny 2 must be doing something right then, because there's no economy there, yet people still seem to be playing for rewards. And the top end ones are substantially easier to get than the ones in GW2.

 

On 8/19/2021 at 11:50 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

It's proof that a game can work without one. That's all. Personally, I tend to think there's few if any good examples of working economies in games, and that overall, they're probably better off without them.

And that's all games, not just MMOs.

 

That GW2's has been designed by an in-house economist as a way to separate players from their cash is all you need to know about the economy here.

This is simply a false equivalency.  Here's an analogy to quickly demonstrate the point.

Tesla vehicles use lithium-ion based energy for propulsion.  People drive them with no problems and this is proof that it can work.  There's no reason why aircraft carriers can't do the same thing.

 

You are comparing two very different things on the premise that they aren't different.  Yes they are both video games in the same way that cars, aircraft carriers, and helicopters are all vehicles.  

 

Furthermore, the insinuation that the economist at ArenaNet was employed to "...separate  players from their cash" is demonstrable proof of a lack of even rudimentary knowledge of economic concepts.  John Smith was hired to ensure the stability of trade within the game and to help ArenaNet avoid hyperinflation or deflation that many online-games suffer from.  That you think economics is a bad thing is incredible for someone of working age.  This is akin to thinking all businesses are bad because they want your money.  That's not how any of it works.

 

Again, the in-game economy is what allows for relative value and player specialization which enhances the gameplay experience.

 

11 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Starting from say 0 winterberries, I'd say you're probably going to have to farm for two days at least to get the backpack from Bitterfrost, thanks to timegating of the berries themselves. The story's the same for backpieces from other maps.

 

It's interesting that you have the same desire for in-game pixels as the "nerds" and "mooks" you insulted have.  Is your enjoyment of the video game so inextricably intertwined with legendary gear?  For someone so "casual" you seem to be placing an uncharacteristically massive level of importance on something that barely affects gameplay.  You don't seem to care about playing the game for the enjoyment of gameplay and, instead, are rather fixated on gear.  

 

I just find it odd because this is the same behavior displayed by those "elitists" you seem to despise.  

 

10 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

You implied that ANet had a plan rather than making it up as they went along 😄

That stat-swapping was "INTENDED" as part of progression.

 

Trust me, the current system is held together with sticky-back plastic and prayer.

 

Now you are faulting a company for adapting to the trends of their market segment.  Are you really condeming adaptability?  Are you really suggesting that adaptability equates to incompetence?  I'm not seeing any sort of reasoned thought here.

 

 

 

 

Overall, your presentation of ideas are mostly inconsistent and based on logically invalid premises.  Also, I only stepped in because your self-lauding as a "real" working individual is so absurdly fallacious on its face.  Overall, the arguments you present just aren't good at all.  I'm agaisnt this idea of an exotic armory.

[ASP.8093]

On 8/19/2021 at 9:24 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

Huh, then Destiny 2 must be doing something right then, because there's no economy there, yet people still seem to be playing for rewards. And the top end ones are substantially easier to get than the ones in GW2.

Err, doesn't Destiny 2 have a gear treadmill, enforced by an upgrade cap on older gear so that it gets "retired" over time?

[Talindra.4958]

no 

[Gehenna.3625]

12 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Raids are PvE.  Nothing anyone says, does, or complains about will ever change the fact that raids are PvE.

They are and so are fractals, but there is definitely a difference in which groups of players they appeal to. Casual players will generally not be found in raids and fractals. So it does make sense to make a difference between structured group content (raids, strike missions and fractals) and open world content in PvE. Or if you will hardcore PvE and casual PvE. There may be overlap but these types of PvE content do not target the same audience and as such it would be incorrect to pile them on the same heap.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

Warning, long post, lots of maths, post is incomplete and will be updated.  (If this is edited and has  a strikethrough, disregard the incompleteness warning.)

There are 39 Total Prefixes useable in PvE

1. 9 from HoT
2. 4 from PoF
3. 26 from Core

Some don't have trinkets associated with them at the exotic level, others don't have level 80 variants.  For the sake of this, I went down every single prefix for weapons and armor to do some calculations on cost of owning a full exotic set in every single prefix available in PvE.  For the sake of simplicity, I'm leaving out the constituent parts of the weapons (Blades, hafts, etc.) to make this easier to calculate.  I'll add in an extra 1000g worth of materials at the end of the calculation for weapons and  another 1400g for armor.  The total inscriptions assumes the weapon previews for new elite specs is correct. Any weapon that can be held in the offhand is doubled (So warrior axe, mesmer sword/sword).  This comes out to 108 inscriptions per class to outfit them all.  Exotics are soulbound on use so this is required.  I'm also going to assume that we're not going crazy and we've farmed our own mist trinkets to reset the stats on them.
 

Weapons link
https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~108-77001;108-76361;108-76048;108-70434;108-71433;108-73772;108-73305;108-72875;108-83974;108-83926;108-19920;108-49865;108-19923;108-89735;108-19921;108-19919;108-19922;108-66638;108-46689;108-86685;108-67830;108-19917;108-38434;108-19918;108-37181;108-43775

Things not listed in link:
Weapons (Core):

Soldier's orichalcum Imbued inscription (Salvaged) 55s Avg  price.  107*.55=58g 85s
Cavalier's Orichalcum Imbued Inscription (Salvaged) 55s  Avg. Price. 107*.55=58g 85s
Sentinel's Orichalcum Imbued Inscription (Guild Missions) 80s + 10 Guild coms or 85g 60s & 1070 guild commendations
Shaman's Orichalcum Imbued Inscription (Salvaged) avg price of 55s.  107*.55=58g 85s
Rabid Orichalcum Imbued Inscription (Salvaged) avg price of 55s. 107*.55=58g 85s
Dire Orichalcum Imbued Inscription (Salvaged) avg price of 55s. 107*.55 = 58g 85s
Magi's Orichalcum Imbued Inscription (Salvaged) avg price of 55s. 107*.55 = 58g 85s
 

Weapons (HoT):
Seraph's orichalcum Imbued Inscription. 2500 Unbound Magic + 50  Jade Fragments each * 107 or 5,350 Jade Shards & 267,500 Unbound Magic
 

Weapons (Pof)
Plaguedoctor's Orichalcum-imbued inscription.  2500 Volatile magic + 50 Inscribed Shards or 5,350 Inscribed Shards & 267,500 Volatile Magic
Intact Mosaic (Grieving Weapons).  Cost: 107 @ 11s each or 11g

Totals

Avg price of items not listed =438g 50s + 1070 guild commendations + 5,350 Inscribed Shards & 267,500 Volatile Magic + 5,350 Jade Fragments & 267,500 Unbound Magic
Link  Total: 7331g 23s 44c (As of this posting & Edit)
Total (With constituent part price estimation) : 8769g 73s 44c + 1070 guild commendations + 5,350 Inscribed Shards & 267,500 Volatile Magic + 5,350 Jade Fragments & 267,500 Unbound Magic


Armor
Armor has 6 pieces per class, 18 per weight, and 54 total pieces.  This means that to craft all the armor, 54 of each insignia is needed

Armor Link:
https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~54-19913;54-49866;54-19916;54-89758;54-19914;54-19912;54-19915;54-66641;54-46713;54-38162;54-67831;54-19910;54-86585;54-19911;54-37177;54-43774;54-71262;54-75981;54-75354;54-70766;54-70424;54-76115;54-74430;54-73227;54-83264;54-82882

Things not listed in link:

Armor (Core):
Soldier's Intricate Gossamer Insignia (Salvaged) 18s each. 54*.18 =9g 72s
Cavalier's Intricate Gossamer Insignia (Salvaged) 18s each. 54*.18 =9g 72s
Sentinel's Intricate Gossamer Insignia (Guild Coms Vendor)  43g 20s + 540 guild commendations
Shaman's Intricate Gossamer Insignia (Salvaged) 18s each. 54*.18 =9g 72s
Rabid Intricate Gossamer Insignia (Salvaged) 18s each. 54*.18 =9g 72s
Dire Intricate Gossamer Insignia (Salvaged) 18s each. 54*.18 =9g 72s
Magi's Intricate Gossamer Insignia (Salvaged) 18s each. 54*.18 =9g 72s
 

Armor (HoT):
Seraph Intricate Gossamer Insignia 67,500 Unbound Magic + 1,350 Jade Shards
 

Armor (PoF):
Intact mosaic (Grieving) 5g 94s for 54
Plaguedoctor's Intricate Gossamer Insignia 67,500 Volatile Magic + 1,350 Inscribed Shards

Total Cost:
Unlisted cost: 101g 52s + 540 Guild Commendations + 67,500 Unbound Magic + 1,350 Jade Shards +67,500 Volatile Magic + 1,350 Inscribed Shards
Link Total: 7266g 9s 96c
Totals  (With constituent  part cost) : 8767g 61s 96c + 540 Guild Commendations + 67,500 Unbound Magic + 1,350 Jade Shards +67,500 Volatile Magic + 1,350 Inscribed Shards

Total cost of owning all exotic gear at once for all classes in all (PvE) combinations: 17,537g 35s 40c +  1,610 guild commendations + 335,000 Unbound Magic & 6,700 Jade Shards + 335,000 Volatile Magic & 6,700 Inscribed Shards.

*This doesn't account for the storage space you'd need.

Now what about legendary items?  To fill out everything for all classes and have that same level of convenience would be real nice.  Well, unfortunately, it's going to cost a lot.  Like, a lot a lot.

Legendary weapons link:
https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~4-30684;4-30687;4-30692;4-30693;4-30699;2-30695;2-30688;2-30696;2-30700;2-30702;1-30703;1-30704;2-30690;2-30685;2-30694;2-30686;2-30698;2-30697;2-30691;2-30701

To get the same  effect as above in legendaries, you'd need 4 of each 1h legendary that can be dual wielded at  all, 2 of  each that can't (2h, offhand, scepter).  This comes out to nearly 70k gold.  And this is just generation 1 legendaries so you don't need two stacks of mystic coins each.

Armor, conversely, would save you a bit of gold.  Specifically the Envoy armor as it only costs 7113g 34s 57c to craft (Assuming no materials and you put buy orders)

Envoy armor link:
 https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~1-80248;1-80296;1-80384;1-80131;1-80145;1-80435;1-80190;1-80578;1-80254;1-80356;1-80252;1-80277;1-80281;1-80399;1-80557;1-80111;1-80161;1-80205

All in all, I think this is a pretty bad idea.  Weapons take a lot of effort  (They're about 1600g per slot per legendary), and armor takes about the same effort to get if you wanted to craft all your exotic armors.

However, t his is ignoring one key thing:
Dungeons.

Dungeons have basically every attribute combination you could want from Core GW2.  There's also several places where you can get a free exotic armor set with minimal effort in open world that allows you t o select any attribute combination (Core, HoT, PoF) and the best part is, these rewards are repeatable, quicker than farming the materials to craft the  sets, and generally much, much cheaper.  The same goes for  weapons & trinkets, though trinkets have an easy way to get ascended variants that can be stat swapped on the cheap.

But what does this all really mean?
Good question!  The cost analysis here means that exotics, even when crafting all possible stat combinations that you'd ever want is actually still cheaper than forging an entire legendary equipment set.  Especially for weapons.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406
Spelling and clarity update.

[Aphandra.9672]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:25 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

it's not difficult to get individual ones for each character

I agree and for me this is the main point.

I'm hypercasual but even for me it wasn't a problem to kit my main in exotics at 1 gold apiece. Just a few completed dailies. Any premium on top of that price is just the skin (I guess). Cheaper than crafting.

 

I don't know whether there is a market for exotics beside equipping, but reducing demand may need reducing the supply as well.

 

If I'm not alone using exotics even for LS2 (Dry Top, Silverwastes) then slowing the process down could clumsify accessing this content. New players would have to wait for a few cycles (months) of daily logins, or rely entirely on gold.

 

On 8/18/2021 at 4:46 PM, LSD.4673 said:

we continue to see the exact same builds across the board

Isn't that a game design thing? I'm supposed to dodge everything, however there are dps checks so ultimately all I am being suggested is Berserker, or the condition variant. I'm a bit surprised not even elementalist uses Celestial.

[Rinagal.9235]

2 hours ago, Aphandra.9672 said:

Isn't that a game design thing?

You give player wide array of choices to craft build, but intend for player to use only a small part of those in a certain combinations? How does it make any sense?

 

You supposed to dodge everything because you have no choice whether to have dodge or not and i doubt there is dps checks in raids that you can't bypass if you don't use stat combination only with offensive stats, you can use marauder set and still do enough dps.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Rinagal.9235

[yann.1946]

On 8/19/2021 at 3:24 PM, Mungrul.9358 said:

Huh, then Destiny 2 must be doing something right then, because there's no economy there, yet people still seem to be playing for rewards. And the top end ones are substantially easier to get than the ones in GW2.

Sunsetting was done especially because people stopped doing all the content for the rewards, also it does have an economy just not one where players interact with eachother.

[Gehenna.3625]

3 hours ago, Aphandra.9672 said:

I don't know whether there is a market for exotics beside equipping, but reducing demand may need reducing the supply as well.

I buy exotics to salvage them. I can't remember the name of them, but they can give you a crafting material that's account bound that you need to do ascended crafting. afaik the only source for those are exotic weapons and armor pieces.