Jaykay.9641 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 18 months. That's how long it's been since the massive competitive balance updates of Feb 25th, 2020 that brought a ton of changes. Changes this drastic probably need many, many months of iteration and testing to get it right. Ironically, just a few weeks later on March 12th, 2020, we were given our first tease that ANet was working on the new expansion. In hindsight, this should have been the first indication that balance was probably going to be a back-burner topic until EoD was released. While we have had multiple competitive balance patches and even a "pre-EoD skills and profession" balance patch in May 2021(this was basically a PvE - raid/fractal balance patch), it still feels like it's a topic that Anet is struggling to keep on top of with issues and design choices that are still not resolved today. One of the changes that was introduced was heavily increased ICDs of "automatic" traits. Many traits across many professions were slapped with 300 internal CDs in a way to discourage players picking these talents until the specific talents would be reworked. Well, 18 months later, still no fixes. I understand COVID and EoD development affected the studio, but it also affected everyone else too. So I don't see this as an excuse anymore since everyone had to deal with it and I think it's time for some answers. I know many players are having fun testing out the new beta E-Specs. I'm also glad to see some progress in moving forward to EoD as well. But in the back of my mind, I feel ANet missed a big opportunity to update all of the 300 sec ICD and plain, poor talents and skills in the game to reflect the new expansion. Why is the beta design process not taking this in to account? Is Anet OK with the current Beta test strategy knowing there are so many talents/weapons/utilities that should NEED to be reworked? Will players get frustrated testing and theorycrafting with the current skills and traits but only to some traits/skills changed at launch? Is Anet collecting correct data knowing that these traits need to be changed? @Cal Cohen.2358@Josh Davis.7865 - (pinging these two as they seem to be the most involved with balance) So what's the plan? What is the direction you intend to take balance of Traits, Weapons skills, and utilities that seem to need changes? Why are we still in the position of 300 sec ICDs? What's the direction of CC skills having next to no damage even if it's an extremely hard to land skillshot (ex. Drop the Hammer. I'm a Rev main so I'm biased)? So many topics that players have had over the 18 months that still aren't resolved. Again, I know you guys are busy with working on the expansion; priorities are after all, priorities. But I would just like to know what the plan is moving forward and why aren't the topics listed above priorities. I think as a community, we're due for some communication and clarity on these topics. Thanks. 9 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 I doubt there are any plans for them. 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 There is a plan for them. It was implemented in Feb2020. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 They planned on us forgetting about them. 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vidit.7108 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) The plan is they're gonna ask Warriors/Rangers/Eles/Thieves to give them feedback on their new elite spec in a couple months and if they want that feedback then they can address the cooldown problem first or get a flood of complaints instead. It's really weird for them to work on new things with a bunch of old traits in a state of imbalance like that. At least say you haven't come up with a fix yet and are trying things out. Edited August 18, 2021 by Vidit.7108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Vidit.7108 said: The plan is they're gonna ask Warriors/Rangers/Eles/Thieves to give them feedback on their new elite spec in a couple months and if they want that feedback then they can address the cooldown problem first or get a flood of complaints instead. It's really weird for them to work on new things with a bunch of old traits in a state of imbalance like that. At least say you haven't come up with a fix yet and are trying things out. Warriors, we need to do this during the feedback period lol. ESpec is okay, but the 300s CD on Defy Pain really holds it back, or the spec was underperforming on DPS, what would help would to decrease the cast time on 100B by 50% or things like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) I doubt they'll do anything for launch of EoD (still hoping for a pre-HoT-like trait rework). While I understand that those traits are more important on some classes than on others, I wouldn't waste too much energy on this until then and, as Lan said, participate in the betas and give feedback there. Edited August 19, 2021 by Xaylin.1860 To to too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said: I doubt they'll do anything for launch of EoD (still hoping for a pre-HoT-like trait rework). While I understand that those traits are more important on some classes than on others, I wouldn't waste to much energy on this until then and, as Lan said, participate in the betas and give feedback there. I'm going to do it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 The plan? You're living it. You get to not die for two seconds every five minutes. That's it, that's the joke. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny.9834 Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 Sometimes I wonder how many ANET employees actually pays attention to the forums because of how many of these issues are left unresolved. These 300s CDs remain a big problem in PvP and WvW. Just reduce them all to 120s atleast geez. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Curze.5130 Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 keep ignoring them, and us: ANet's default plan for everything 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingMenthol.7281 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 - Change 300 second skills and other traits that are almost entirely never used - Improve weapons that are almost entirely never used - Update runes that are almost entirely never used (scholar/pack runes everywhere and little reason to use anything else for power builds) I know ANet is busy with the new expansion, but it would be nice to have someone look at this stuff every now and then and make minor changes 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmTheStorm.2364 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 On 8/27/2021 at 5:58 AM, GoingMenthol.7281 said: - Change 300 second skills and other traits that are almost entirely never used - Improve weapons that are almost entirely never used - Update runes that are almost entirely never used (scholar/pack runes everywhere and little reason to use anything else for power builds) I know ANet is busy with the new expansion, but it would be nice to have someone look at this stuff every now and then and make minor changes I couldn't agree more. As excited as I am for a new expansion, I'd honestly prefer it if they just fixed what they already have. As you rightly pointed out, there are so many unused and underperforming weapons, traits, and utilities that, if thoughtfully reworked, could dramatically expand play styles available to the various professions. I know, I know; expansions sell games and this is a business after all. But I do hope that they will take a good hard look at all the broken and underused components that are currently in the game even as they move forward with bringing the expansion online. This is, in fact, the perfect time to make big changes and balance them all in step with the new mechanics bring introduced by the new especs. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigo.9037 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 On 8/25/2021 at 8:34 PM, DragonSlayer.1087 said: Sometimes I wonder how many ANET employees actually pays attention to the forums because of how many of these issues are left unresolved. These 300s CDs remain a big problem in PvP and WvW. Just reduce them all to 120s atleast geez. They need a rework. the f act that the traits got semi removed/ nerfed into the ground was a good thing. i dont want them back. i dont think a lot of people do either. they need to be changed to do something else entirely. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, bigo.9037 said: They need a rework. the f act that the traits got semi removed/ nerfed into the ground was a good thing. i dont want them back. i dont think a lot of people do either. they need to be changed to do something else entirely. PvP doesn't have nearly enough stun breaks to deal with the ongoing CC spam. Returning the traits back to proper cooldowns is one way to slightly combat the needlessly overdone CC spam. For all we know, Arenanet does not have a sliver of an intention to replace them at all, so returning them to proper cooldowns is the least Arenanet ought to do with them. Edited September 3, 2021 by Fueki.4753 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger.2035 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I feel like the auto triggered traits should just be training wheels for new players. Better options should be available so there is a downside to using them. If the 300 second cool downs achieves this, then I say we leave them as is. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 at this point it's very unlikely they have any plan about those at all. But hey, the table this issue is on can hold a lot of things. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verdict is Vengence.6912 Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 On 8/30/2021 at 11:39 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said: I couldn't agree more. As excited as I am for a new expansion, I'd honestly prefer it if they just fixed what they already have. As you rightly pointed out, there are so many unused and underperforming weapons, traits, and utilities that, if thoughtfully reworked, could dramatically expand play styles available to the various professions. I know, I know; expansions sell games and this is a business after all. But I do hope that they will take a good hard look at all the broken and underused components that are currently in the game even as they move forward with bringing the expansion online. This is, in fact, the perfect time to make big changes and balance them all in step with the new mechanics bring introduced by the new especs. I feel the same way. I'd give up getting a new espec for some housecleaning and maintenance on warrior. A 300 second CD is asinine (no offense, Anet). It just doesn't seem in the least bit intuitive or comprehensive. I wouldn't even call it a band aid. Its like punching a light bulb to get it to turn off. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThrakathNar.4537 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Apologies to necro a one-month thread, but it seems like the official answer for this question has finally been revealed: Nothing. They added a new 300s cooldown trait on Spectre. This is going to be a permanent "fix". 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottBroChill.3254 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Move on and forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 @Cal Cohen.2358, @Josh Davis.7865, @Raymond Lukes.6305 Guys, the 300s CD traits need to be fixed. This is pretty awful from a balance perspective and is just sweeping things under the rug. I know a big balance pass is planned for after EoD, but this is one of the thing that you should probably do before that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT.7192 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) On 8/18/2021 at 6:44 PM, Vidit.7108 said: The plan is they're gonna ask Warriors/Rangers/Eles/Thieves to give them feedback on their new elite spec in a couple months and if they want that feedback then they can address the cooldown problem first or get a flood of complaints instead. It's really weird for them to work on new things with a bunch of old traits in a state of imbalance like that. At least say you haven't come up with a fix yet and are trying things out. Should I remind people about Smiter's boon? Yeah, that skill is still like that today, it was changed back in 2015. And according to interviews/reddit post referred in that page. They kept it like that for the memes. "That's how Smiters boon got Smiters Booned I always wanted to redo it but we never got to it and it just became a funny thing so I've always enjoyed it then the gw1 live team asked if they could make fun of it on that boss and I thought that was amazing. - Isaiah Cartwright Edited October 28, 2021 by BobbyT.7192 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakonhammer.2148 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 On 9/3/2021 at 12:14 PM, Dagger.2035 said: I feel like the auto triggered traits should just be training wheels for new players. Better options should be available so there is a downside to using them. If the 300 second cool downs achieves this, then I say we leave them as is. One, two, three uses most a match aren't training wheels though, that doesn't help new players or veterans. Either these traits need new functionality or a rebalance with lowered CDs. A quick fix (as other users gave in the thread in the Thief subforum) would be dropping the CD to 60s across the board and a bit longer (more in line with elite skills) for the handful of stronger ones. Reactive Lenses on engi has no place being over 60s CD; none of the traits have a place at 300s CD. I'm hesitant to name the odd ones out that have reasonable CDs for what they give as they'd all suck too if they got updated to 300s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 hour ago, BobbyT.7192 said: Should I remind people about Smiter's boon? Yeah, that skill is still like that today, it was changed back in 2015. And according to interviews/reddit post referred in that page. They kept it like that for the memes. "That's how Smiters boon got Smiters Booned I always wanted to redo it but we never got to it and it just became a funny thing so I've always enjoyed it then the gw1 live team asked if they could make fun of it on that boss and I thought that was amazing. - Isaiah Cartwright You keep one for the meme, you don't keep 10+ of them which will never get their own meme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said: You keep one for the meme, you don't keep 10+ of them which will never get their own meme. This. It has gotten ridiculous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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