[Signet of Mercy - bugged or intentional?]

@"Virdo.1540" said:iirc ,the signet only "heals" downed people and instead of healing 100%, it will only heal 66% in downstead while under the effect of poison.

Thank you, interesting interaction & good to know.

[Signet of Mercy - bugged or intentional?]

Sometimes when using signet of mercy it only heals the player to close to full hp, doesn't actually revive them... is that intentional? It does seem like the skill itself simply "heals" (when you revive an almost dead ally they revive with very low hp, but an ally who has only recently downed revives with nearly full hp). But is it intentional it sometimes won't revive at all? Or is that a bug?

[Burn DH meta]

They nerfed maw teleport at least... meh, DH is only abusive at low MMR, so whatever.

[suggestions to bring pvp to life]

@The Fear.3865 said:Add special PvP infusions = PvP population *50

Nah that would just incentivize more temporary players who never get very good and get their reward and leave. Maybe if there were cool skins, infusions etc. for reaching certain MMR or closing out the season at a specific MMR that could work. Titles are fun but not that enticing to most people.

[Dou of Destiny MM here, we've played this since the first 2v2 season due to a bug.]

@"dylanirwin.6249" said:Minion Mancer necro is not strong at all in 2v2s. However, this simple mechanic makes it impossible to beat.When waiting for the "Round Ready" signal we summon all minions and use lich 4. This gives us both full life force before the round even starts. This inherently lead to the first edition Minion Mancer build that was Paladins with Spite, Blood, Death Magic. That build although really strong, was able to be beaten in some cases.

Now With the new minion mancer build that I and ckod came up with it is unfair and unbeatable. The whole reason this build or playstyle rather is viable due to what I believe is a bug. In 5v5s, It shouldn't be a good sidenoder, but having max shroud while going into a side node at the start allows you to just win it without even trying. The only reason that this build is better than the old one is due to the number of immobs it has. 3 to be exact. With all of them being annoyingly long duration. This allows the build to hit certain skills like bone minions that do over 2k base dmg on a condi build btw.

I'm sure this isn't an issue for everyone. However, I want to never see another minion mancer ever again. This build was created because of 2v2s and made its way into meta for no reason. 30k+ health, lots of shroud, tons of power, and Condi dmg. This build on paper is overpowered in of itself, but being able to get full shroud before every round is oppressing and needs to be fixed.

I have yet to see an MM build that seems overpowered (at least vs any other necro build). I don't play it much myself but have played vs. plenty of top players as MM's and never felt like anything was unfair.

[burn op]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Majy.6792 said:

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:yes, nerf all burning.mesmer and ranger torch OP, definitely not an issue with specific burns, they all OP

There are global burning nerfs you could do which would affect some classes but not others. You can put a cd on burning stacks, for example. What's broken is certain class abilities able to achieve 15+ burning stacks in a matter of seconds.

So globally nerf burns by nerfing the classes its "OP" on? Wut?

I mean, you literally have some classes where they physically can't stack burning because Anet has made sure they can not, and others where they can freely stack burns, and those classes are now unbalanced because of that. So does that seem so crazy to just make it so the rules for burning are the same across all classes?

[burn op]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:yes, nerf all burning.mesmer and ranger torch OP, definitely not an issue with specific burns, they all OP

There are global burning nerfs you could do which would affect some classes but not others. You can put a cd on burning stacks, for example. What's broken is certain class abilities able to achieve 15+ burning stacks in a matter of seconds.

To be honest, though, all of sPvP needs a re-work. The meta as is does not reward high skill as much as it does playing certain classes. It would be nice to reward good utilization of skills & map awareness/rotation more vs. just being able to output damage quickly or absorb a shitload of it. Reflects are a great example of well balanced skills. Use them wisely and you can do a lot of damage to your opponent while protecting yourself. Use them poorly and you've opened yourself up for a large attack.

[Anet: Stop punishing players for the kittenfest your matching system produces.]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Im a g1 player this season. I got placed against grimjack last night whos like top 30 this season. And the next game i get zyn who usually also in the top 20-30 on my team. Imo the match maker doesn't work at all.

Yea this kind of mm is really not ok. I get g3 players getting paired with p1s, even though there is some skill disparity there (for true g3 players, not p1's who have fallen due to bad matchmaking). But p2s (who are pretty much always duo with another p2) vs g1? I can pretty much 1v3 g1's, there's no way that kind of pairing should ever happen. Not fun for anyone.

I try to specifically queue at peak times to ensure games feel fair, off peak games are rarely fun. A stomp fest one way or another.

[Just 2 cents, this got old pretty fast]

@Crackers.9628 said:

@Majy.6792 said:My favorite thing about scourge is how they time gate burning but that's not true for any other class. Burn DH is silly right now, you don't have to have any mastery of the class and can 1v3.

Why do people claim DH to be so strong? It has slow, obvious cast times for aoe traps. People can literally walk in a circle and you´ll never hit them with any traps.It´s slow, has barely any gap closers, no decent ranged damage, and heavily dependant on people walking into traps. Spear pulls them in, but it also easily dodgeable and most classes have a teleport, invuln, block, etc. I just don´t see why anyone would claim it´s strong in solo queue beyond silver.

Opposite goes for spellbreaker btw, what a clown fiesta when a sb decides to bunker up and play jumping puzzles.

Scourge and necro btw is the most braindead class in the game. A class with 40/50k hp and that much sustain on top of mobility AND good damage should pretty much not exist.

You know what.. most classes are kitten in pvp. Ranger with bizarre damage, insane downstate, and perma immob. Warrior with 100 gap closers, 100 cc, and 10000 toughness and 100 blocks. Firebrand which is unkillable. Revenant with the clown damage. They just managed to make a lot of specs cancerous. If you look at moba´s you can see it is possible to make classes very challenging to fight, but there is always something you can do to counter something. A water tempest? kitten out of luck. Cannot do anything. It´s like rock paper scissors.

Heh, I doubt you play necro if you think it's stronger than burn DH right now. I play both, burn DH is silly, necro feels actually pretty balanced.

[Just 2 cents, this got old pretty fast]

My favorite thing about scourge is how they time gate burning but that's not true for any other class. Burn DH is silly right now, you don't have to have any mastery of the class and can 1v3.

[Whats the point of ranking if it doesnt do anything with MM?]

@"Talos.9608" said:in one day i got 3 matches agaist p3 (erazik, rank 55 dragons, some other streamer) as g3 player... i was p1 at begging, having imposible matches (loosing streak) until g2, then sudenly, 2 easy matches as of point of writing this. not a first time, probably not the last, but skill rating is all about luck it seems, and "skill" part does little to nothing. just streaks of loss/wins on obvious points... sorry for matches i afked but those were lost as seen from the plane, and on loosing streak i couldnt play my best so it wouldnt make a difference. I wonder if anyone else who constantly plays ranked found same thing happening?

It's funny, you really only see afk mentality in gold and lower for the most part. I've seen some plats afk but it's super rare.

[Separate full team queue?]

@Megametzler.5729 said:I want teamQ and soloQ seperated. Don't know why Anet doesn't at least try for a season or even a mini season. I agree with you, it might draw people into PVP. How many? We'd see.

This is my preference as well. As a soloer who is constantly between p2 / top 50 & as low as g3 I find if I want to maintain rank I need to look out for and actively dodge duos, which feels cheesy but duo queue breaks the game.

[Make blindness work on Dragon's Maw or reveal DH when placing next trap]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Brokensunday.4098 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:I'd rather they add a little more...What to call it, variety? Depth? To the setup. Traps as a concept are all well and good, but maybe it isn't a good idea to have a trap with such narrow counters.

Stability, blocks, ports out, invul. Does not seem narrow at all to counter it .. just saying if you get stuck on it with 0 cooldows yes i see how you can die to it but thats not dm fault.

Stab - yes, after Anet has stripped down stab access across the board.

Blocks - iirc this doesn't work? It'll knock you back into it similar to how dodging into the barrier will bounce you off. I've tried this multiple times (as a warr with shield5, most recently) and it has never worked if I try it after the trap has procced. I can still get yoinked into it too due to the unblockable spear.

Ports - GW2 has some issues where even if you port, it still considers you as having 'passed through'. They do work but it can be very wonky.

Invul - yes.

I'm not here to debate semantics and the nature of language and humanity. You're welcome to disagree with my word choice.

The issue is that trap stacking eliminates each others' counters (and the design of Maw negates other things - like as the OP mentions, blind) and the stuff that is available is either rare or self-defeating (ex: yes, I can certainly evade across a node to proc all the traps. And then I can't stand on it for a while, and the CD of said traps likely is already down or close to it so it happens again in short order. What is the point of this). Individually I find the traps fine, but stacked together it gets ridiculous. And then there're the slows, so anything you do is extremely vulnerable to everything ever.

Just...consider this. There's a Maw trap you have to get out of. You're slowed and you're taking damage from the spinny thing. Sure, fine - on my warr I'll use Stomp, no big deal. But I'm slowed, so it takes a bit and I'll take a decent chunk of damage regardless. But wait, there's another trap that damages me if I leave its circumference - which is fine, but there's still the spinny one that is gonna hit me if I stay in there. And then there's an unblockable spear that can yoink me back into it (the yoink goes through dodge, too).

All of these things are fine alone - trap that damages you if you cross it? Okay, dont' cross it. It has a pretty decent radius. Or there's a trap that damages you if you stay inside it and you can just walk/dodge out. But then, and then, etcetc - and then comes the part where the goal of the entire mode is to capture a point. Do you see how all of these things have conflicting counters? Are there counters? Yes. But they're totally inadequate, conflicting, convoluted...however you would like to describe them.

You keep talking about spear.

I don't think you have even the tiniest understanding of what it is you're complaining about.

Burn DH will not use spear to pull into traps, because then it loses all pressure from VoJ. If you're against a burn DH, the BEST THING that can happen to you is that it uses spear. It's literally the DH giving you a free win and going "hey, guess I won't do any damage for the next 20 seconds".

I'm explaining how the mechanics can stack and create convoluted counters resulting in unfun gameplay. Not being paid to read things to you, but you can copy/paste things into google for some help if you need it.

Nope, sorry, your "counters" only make sense if you're imagining some magical DH build that is somehow both simultaneously a power build (the references you make to the damage from Test of Faith) and a condi-build. A magical build that is somehow able to use spear, and also retain VoJ damage.

All while ignoring the most obvious counter, which is that if a DH blows its entire utility bar to make a point un-contestable for 3 seconds, then the DH has made itself super vulnerable to any pressure outside of those 3 seconds.

If a necro uses all its utilities on Wells, then you can't go on point when it drops them all. Does that mean necro wells are OP? Or does it mean you are expected to be able to apply the 3 brain cells it takes to not stand on point for that short duration, and then punish the necro afterwards for having 0 sustain utility?

Just imagine it was a PvE boss. Every 20 seconds, for a period of 3 seconds, it farts out massive damage in its immediate vicinity. Even PvE players can grasp the concept of "don't be near the boss when the big damage is happening". Although I guess they did have to make the PvE boss damage fields ultra-bright in order for people to understand something so basic.

Necro wells disappear after a short period of time, traps do not. If you want to avoid DH traps that typically means giving up the node for a considerable amount of time. That's not true of wells.

[Make a balancing subforum and let only Plat & above post in it]

@Ryan.9387 said:

@"Majy.6792" said:Also at least on NA the skill difference between p1 and p3 is pretty minimal.

Not even close to true. The p3 playerbase are the ones who are 500-0ing p1 teams in ats every day. The reality of the situation here is that the top tier players have so little fun playing ranked that they have dropped the mode entirely and just play ats.

To them every ranked game is just a test of "can I farm enemy players faster than my team throws?" You can't practice rotations because nobody knows where to go and 1v1s aren't interesting because the opponents are just bad.

There are plenty of p1s right now who have been top 20 end of season and are >200. I have played against every single player in the top 50 NA many times and I know a lot of >100 ranked players who can play as well or better than they do. I would bet anything that if you removed duo queue most of those guys would not be top players and some wouldn't even rank top 250.

[Make a balancing subforum and let only Plat & above post in it]

@Markri.9475 said:why so low as plat 1? thats hardly a requirement of skill, or knowledge about balance.You could have started at top250. Though top 100 would mean more.I'm against the idea though, as even top players don't know how to get balance done on a whole.

On NA plat would be already less than top 250. Also at least on NA the skill difference between p1 and p3 is pretty minimal. There are bad players and good players in both brackets. Even the leg players are really on par w/ p2s mostly, they just all duo.

[Initial rating to jump on ranked matches]

@Asuran.5469 said:There should be a hard separation between which divisions can even queue together.

Something like this:

• Bronze & Silver can queue with and against each other
• Gold queues with and against only Golds, as this encompasses the largest bulk of the population
• Plat & Legend division queue with and against each other

Wait times become as long as they need to be.

I agree with this. I also think duo queue should be removed, it's the only reason the top players are at the top. Otherwise most of them would just be somewhere in the 250, I've seen plenty of players outclass popular top 20 streamers.

[PvP unplayable even during prime time]

@DonNee.5128 said:

@Majy.6792 said:

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Majy.6792 said:

@"felix.2386" said:Now every match for me, i've seen none of the players ever for straight 1 week now and my team gets completely rolled because they don't understand how to dodge as silverwhile enemies are most likely gold and all running tankie cheesewhile i'm plat 2 being completely unable to carry anything.and have to lose 16 points every single match even if i almost dropped to gold and it's still -15

gotta love it when you almost dropped to gold you still lose -15 per match with completely random that you never see and never pvp.

amazing population right there for a friday night

Yea I'm pretty much ready to quit. Was plat most of this season so far, 1580 at the highest, rank 43

Out of nowhere I started getting matches where it was literally me and 4 golds vs 5 plat players. This happened over and over until I was knocked down into gold, where it actually continued except it started matching me with lower gold players. I am now at ~1460 getting matched with silvers still sometimes against the same players I was matched with and against at high p1 rating. I no longer see the p2 players -- who, for what it's worth, I held my own against fine and have even carried and won games against multiple top 10 players. After a WINNING record against all p1 and p2 players for weeks, suddenly I am on the equivalent of an 8-10 game losing streak. I don't think I have out of nowhere lost my ability to play.

I can't for the life of me carry most of the games I'm getting matched in right now. At the start of the game, more than 70% of the time, 2-3 of my team mates will die in under 5 seconds fighting for mid. I don't really understand the matchmaking system but my instinct says it's still counting me as a ~p2 player and to make up for that giving me incredibly low rank players as team mates and matching vs an on average higher caliber team.

Problem is, the difference in tier is so overwhelming, that even 4 g2 players vs 4 g3 players is a no-contest match.

I also see players I'm used to seeing in plat at gold fighting a similar struggle, so it's not just me.

I don't really give a kitten what my rank is. My problem is that it's not fun to play a match where every player in the game is at a completely lower caliber of play. Those games are just not fun, win or lose. I want to be able to play against players who are of my skill level, not be winning 1v2's and 1v3's and getting every award and it not even mattering in the outcome of the game.

My assumption is ultimately the pendulum will swing the other way and I'll dominate for 10-15 games in a row and climb back into plat, but what kind of a system is it where you can ping pong like this even after ~200 games?

Actually the difference between gold 2 and plat 1 players is incredible small

Having played in both tiers I disagree very much. Gold 2 players make constant map awareness mistakes and generally have a low mastery level of their class. Plat 1 players tend to have higher mastery of their class and generally strong map awareness, though the main difference between a p1 and p2+ player is map awareness and rotational awareness.

well g2 is just above beginner lvl but as a higher lvl player you should farm p1 or g2 just as fast

idk what you mean by "farm", there are plenty of players in p1 who are better than anyone in top 10 currently. Plat and above has the best players in the game on NA. Gold and below is a significant dropoff of skill, gold 3 arguably has some great players, but by the time you are at g2 there is a very large skill difference.

In any case, I just played a game in gold where 3 of my 5 team mates did not even know what tranq was. I then promptly uninstalled. GL gw2, was fun while it lasted.

[PvP unplayable even during prime time]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@Majy.6792 said:

@felix.2386 said:Now every match for me, i've seen none of the players ever for straight 1 week now and my team gets completely rolled because they don't understand how to dodge as silverwhile enemies are most likely gold and all running tankie cheesewhile i'm plat 2 being completely unable to carry anything.and have to lose 16 points every single match even if i almost dropped to gold and it's still -15

gotta love it when you almost dropped to gold you still lose -15 per match with completely random that you never see and never pvp.

amazing population right there for a friday night

Yea I'm pretty much ready to quit. Was plat most of this season so far, 1580 at the highest, rank 43

Out of nowhere I started getting matches where it was literally me and 4 golds vs 5 plat players. This happened over and over until I was knocked down into gold, where it actually continued except it started matching me with lower gold players. I am now at ~1460 getting matched with silvers still sometimes against the same players I was matched with and against at high p1 rating. I no longer see the p2 players -- who, for what it's worth, I held my own against fine and have even carried and won games against multiple top 10 players. After a WINNING record against all p1 and p2 players for weeks, suddenly I am on the equivalent of an 8-10 game losing streak. I don't think I have out of nowhere lost my ability to play.

I can't for the life of me carry most of the games I'm getting matched in right now. At the start of the game, more than 70% of the time, 2-3 of my team mates will die in under 5 seconds fighting for mid. I don't really understand the matchmaking system but my instinct says it's still counting me as a ~p2 player and to make up for that giving me incredibly low rank players as team mates and matching vs an on average higher caliber team.

Problem is, the difference in tier is so overwhelming, that even 4 g2 players vs 4 g3 players is a no-contest match.

I also see players I'm used to seeing in plat at gold fighting a similar struggle, so it's not just me.

I don't really give a kitten what my rank is. My problem is that it's not fun to play a match where every player in the game is at a completely lower caliber of play. Those games are just not fun, win or lose. I want to be able to play against players who are of my skill level, not be winning 1v2's and 1v3's and getting every award and it not even mattering in the outcome of the game.

My assumption is ultimately the pendulum will swing the other way and I'll dominate for 10-15 games in a row and climb back into plat, but what kind of a system is it where you can ping pong like this even after ~200 games?

Actually the difference between gold 2 and plat 1 players is incredible small

Having played in both tiers I disagree very much. Gold 2 players make constant map awareness mistakes and generally have a low mastery level of their class. Plat 1 players tend to have higher mastery of their class and generally strong map awareness, though the main difference between a p1 and p2+ player is map awareness and rotational awareness.

[PvP unplayable even during prime time]

@felix.2386 said:Now every match for me, i've seen none of the players ever for straight 1 week now and my team gets completely rolled because they don't understand how to dodge as silverwhile enemies are most likely gold and all running tankie cheesewhile i'm plat 2 being completely unable to carry anything.and have to lose 16 points every single match even if i almost dropped to gold and it's still -15

gotta love it when you almost dropped to gold you still lose -15 per match with completely random that you never see and never pvp.

amazing population right there for a friday night

Yea I'm pretty much ready to quit. Was plat most of this season so far, 1580 at the highest, rank 43

Out of nowhere I started getting matches where it was literally me and 4 golds vs 5 plat players. This happened over and over until I was knocked down into gold, where it actually continued except it started matching me with lower gold players. I am now at ~1460 getting matched with silvers still sometimes against the same players I was matched with and against at high p1 rating. I no longer see the p2 players -- who, for what it's worth, I held my own against fine and have even carried and won games against multiple top 10 players. After a WINNING record against all p1 and p2 players for weeks, suddenly I am on the equivalent of an 8-10 game losing streak. I don't think I have out of nowhere lost my ability to play.

I can't for the life of me carry most of the games I'm getting matched in right now. At the start of the game, more than 70% of the time, 2-3 of my team mates will die in under 5 seconds fighting for mid. I don't really understand the matchmaking system but my instinct says it's still counting me as a ~p2 player and to make up for that giving me incredibly low rank players as team mates and matching vs an on average higher caliber team.

Problem is, the difference in tier is so overwhelming, that even 4 g2 players vs 4 g3 players is a no-contest match.

I also see players I'm used to seeing in plat at gold fighting a similar struggle, so it's not just me.

I don't really give a shit what my rank is. My problem is that it's not fun to play a match where every player in the game is at a completely lower caliber of play. Those games are just not fun, win or lose. I want to be able to play against players who are of my skill level, not be winning 1v2's and 1v3's and getting every award and it not even mattering in the outcome of the game.

My assumption is ultimately the pendulum will swing the other way and I'll dominate for 10-15 games in a row and climb back into plat, but what kind of a system is it where you can ping pong like this even after ~200 games?

[How to PROPERLY handle lich form.]

Lich form is one of the most shit abilities in the game, the fact that so many people complain about it is a testament to the low skill level of the average player. Literally only good if you have 0 pressure on you (lol at high level play having 0 pressure on you as a necro) and people just stand there and allow themselves to be hit by it.

[soloQ gold rank]

@haenz.9578 said:You cant leave this kitten as solo player. It is impossible. You play with mates which dies instant, I mean really...the don´t use anything.kitten ANET can u change this kitten ranking system?Why I have to play teh whole season with such teams?Great company...play your own game pls

Just play a high damage team fighting class like holo or reaper, or a high mobility decapping class like thief or ranger. Best ways to solo carry in low tiers.

[The dagger of the necromancer is as slow as a snail]

@Teratus.2859 said:I've mostly used it for lifestealing in PvE, I'd argue Dagger 2 is probably the best weapon healing skill in the game, rivaling that of someone of Necros other main heal skills.

But it's very, very finicky in PvP modes and unreliable as a result so it's definitely no good there, specially with it's low damage and lack of cleave.It can have some use in WvW though thanks to NPC's being around allowing you to make use of that D2 healing, allows you to turn trash mobs and enemy guards etc into your personal blood bags :)But there are still better weapons to pick over Dagger in WvW so it's more of a preference thing if you take it.PvE is where the weapon gets best use imo but even there it could use a powerup.

Short range makes it pretty useless though. Need to be face checking people for the drain, when necro really only survives taking advantage of range. Maybe some sort of bunker scourge but bunker is pretty dead. Support scourge does better with other main hands.

[Beginner's Guide to PvP]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Majy.6792 said:

@"Vallun.2071" said:A while ago I made a video to help new players or PvErs get into PvP. Recently I updated the guide and made it text format.

https://guildjen.com/2020/07/25/beginners-guide-to-gw2-pvp/

Great guide. Kind of a silly question but how do you make fast turns without "Use either mouse button to change direction"? Only reason I don't use free camera is because character movement is slow and clumsy for me without that option checked.

That would probably be about face, which you use to automatically turn the other direction. This is very important for more precise movements like reaction based spell usage or kiting. It is also very important for the thief class which is heavily dodge based and let you use the “roll skills” in the direction you want without the risk of losing movement efficiency and all you need to use this is bind a key to the command.Free camera is actually better so that you can see what’s going on around you also, so I would recommend you experiment with it. You don’t have to take it until you fully figure out how to use it and also possibly when you get all you keybinds and settings under control

I'm talking more just turning in general. With the "use mouse button" setting I can make quick turns just by holding my mouse, but turns are very slow with that off and you can't use that and free camera. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious but yea, with free camera on I can only make these big wide turns and it's hard to be precise with movement.

[Beginner's Guide to PvP]

@"Vallun.2071" said:A while ago I made a video to help new players or PvErs get into PvP. Recently I updated the guide and made it text format.

https://guildjen.com/2020/07/25/beginners-guide-to-gw2-pvp/

Great guide. Kind of a silly question but how do you make fast turns without "Use either mouse button to change direction"? Only reason I don't use free camera is because character movement is slow and clumsy for me without that option checked.

[For the love of Grenth, stop niggling w/ Shades in competitive play! Shave some areas and fix stuff!]

@Tinkerer.2167 said:

@Majy.6792 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Asum.4960 said:While I do agree that Necro needs some weapon based mobility so not every build ever relies on Flesh Wurm + Spectral Walk just to somewhat imitate the baseline mobility of everything else (still with the caveat of needing to be set up), this is way too much.

As compensation for the Shroud health bar I'd much rather get some duration blocks and invulns in the kit, rather than teleports and stealth all over the place.

In general though I don't understand why Anet struggles so much with Necro all these years, when they have shown with Holosmith and Mallyx/Corruption that they can make Reaper and Scourge concepts work better, if not bound by their silly idea of what Necro is supposed to be.

You can't design a profession to be completely defenseless and immobile, and still have it be good without being way overbearing in some other aspect, like Scourge absolutely relying on overbearing AoE spam - or being utterly useless.

Just give it some slight scaling defenses and mobility already and then balance it around the same tools everybody else but Necro has, rather than just loading up shroud mechanics with the majority of Necro's power, and then going back and forth from overbaring to useless over and over again. It's faulty design.I don't think most necro weapons need mobility since most of them are ranged.Maybe Greatsword needs a little dash on death spiral like 300 or 450 range one , I know that Grasping darkness is supposed to be the gap closer skill but it bugs out constantly, and maybe little bit bigger radius on gravedigger(but that just wishfull thinking).Maybe daggers can get movement ability but they are kinda weird since they are melee but also ranged.

It's less so about gap closers for me than about escapes. There is a reason most Necro builds are stuck with Wurm and Walk, since when you get jumped as Necro there are just no tools to escape and very few to make yourself properly unattractive as target.I think core Shroud since the damage nerfs is about the only thing that makes people think twice about running a train over Necro since launch, except maybe PoF launch state Scourge by merits of sheer AoE pressure, but that's not a healthy was of doing things.

Most Necro weapons feel incredibly clunky to me to defend yourself with, especially melee and against multiple targets (except for maybe spamming Staff Marks and then that's it), yet there aren't really any tools to get out of situations like that aside from having a Flesh Wurm setup somewhere - or godlike kiting to try to never get into them in the first place.That's the biggest problem with necro to me, it's combination of lack of escapes, lack of scaling defenses and lack of point blank AoE pressure (outside of Shroud) make it just so incredibly easy to run into the ground without a chance.

Plenty other professions have ranged weapons with escape tools, or at the very least a melee set to swap to for mobility/mitigation, or at the very very least, massive AoE pressure (and being supported by active defense in the Utility slots). Necro only has the binary Shroud which is either on or off, and most problematically has the same counter as if it weren't there - just keep running the Nec over like a train and CC. Same with Lich.

The answer to everything a profession can do shouldn't be the same, to just pile on, otherwise it's fairly unengaging both to play and play against, at least imo.

Necro is a attractive target to teams because they hit hard and have very high in fight sustain, a oh kitten reliable escape is not there for a reason, only having a preplanned escape makes more sense balance wise.

Necro is an attractive target because it doesn't have escapes/scaling mitigation.

If you focus the Ranger they can zoom away, block, stealth, immob and run etc.If you focus the Engie they can invuln, stealth, zoom away, etc.If you focus the Guard they can break focus with invuln at least, Stab/blocks to cover escapesIf you focus the Thief they can stealth and port away and will on the other side of the map pressuring a point before you know if they even really disengagedIf you focus Rev they can block, damage convert, have evade toolsIf you focus Mes they can stealth blink, spam so many visual clutter clones you might prefer to jam a spike up your eyes over keeping to playIf you focus War they can block, damage convert, zoom awayIf you focus Ele they can spam so many evades and invulns you might as well go make a sandwichIf you focus Necro, they are dead and you outnumber the enemy.

That's the main difference. Not Necro's hitting way harder than other professions or having more in fight sustain, which isn't true.

Besides, I'm not arguing to just load up Necro with escape tools and leaving it as is. I specifically said to introduce a small number of which one may have access to one at a time for any given build, so they can then take power out of Shroud and reevaluate the Shroud - non Shroud balance and gameplay feel, so it's less Necro On, Necro Off, and engaging to play and fight both times, without having to be overbearing or antifun to be viable despite it's design shortcomings.

Definitely. Necro has at most 2 escapes they can take, and one (walk) isn't really an escape because if you are in a position where you can't use terrain to your advantage it doesn't do you any good. Wurm only goes on cd when used, meaning you have minimally 30 seconds before you get any kind of escape after using it. Every other class -- and I mean EVERY other class -- has a mobility escape on short cd. Some have multiple. Try catching a warrior who wants to run away, maybe ranger can keep up, no one else. Necro can not only not escape, but they can not pursue. They can't pursue and have low sustain unless shroud is stacked, meaning it's very easy to disengage and come back to them and kill them. The damage a necro does (which let's be fair is less than several other classes even as reaper) is not nearly enough to warrant the near complete lack of mobility. There's a reason why the best necros are all playing holo right now.

mobility doesn't always mean good and there's usually tradeoffs. with necro what would you trade?

ranger, warrior, thief, ele, mes have decent mobility but no where close to necro team fight potential and necro is still over them in team fight meta which tells you something about just having mobility. there's one class that doesn't have insane mobility (without a target) and that's guardian, but they don't have team fight presence either , look where they are in the meta.

the only reason thief is in the meta is due to roaming/decapping/+1 because of that mobility and that's it, that's a big role in conquest though so while it's annoying you can almost never 1v1 or team fight effectively outside of picking and prodding it still has a firm position in the meta. in fact necro beats out most classes for team fight presence, this is without mobility, giving it mobility would arguably make it better than nade holo and it's completely busted, i speak mostly obviously on reaper but core necro is good against specific comps too.

would you want necro to just be a roamer / decapper / +1 spec with that added mobility? you have to have a tradeoff for being probably the biggest oppressive team fighter in the game atm, the one class that has both atm is nade holo (and even then even nade holo doesn't have as much in team-fight sustain as necro by far) and with the holo leap nerf now you have to somewhat think when to use the leap because it has important mobility reduction condi removal tied to it w/ zephyr trait instead of mindlessly spam it even though it's still busted the nerf didn't change much.

I'm not saying necro is terribly weak but outside of shroud they get demolished quickly because they lack any kind of defensive measures past a very brief fear or two. You can't even think about entering a team fight unless you have some life force built up, and even with shroud a single holo or ranger can push you out of a team fight rather quickly if they hard focus you. I think necro does a lot of things well, but nothing great. The problem is that other classes do some things great, even if they might do other things poorly. That gives them more specialized utility which necro generally lacks. I don't have the solution, it probably requires a large mechanic or ability overhaul, such as re-working shroud entirely. As it stands, necro is generally a tier 2 pick in every category. I actually think necro in both pvp and pve is lacking in the same way... can hold its own but will never be your best pick.