Ace.1784
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Posts posted by Ace.1784
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My first use of pistol, I hated it and it was weird. However, I start running it around (this is open world btw) and it's pretty strong. There's a massive DPS difference between my early play of just trying random things and to the rotation I typically use now. All in all, I'm okay with it. I'm playing it with catalyst currently, since Weaver felt a little weird.
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On 12/7/2023 at 8:10 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:
I don't know that catalyst has any inherent sustain advantage over weaver other than the ability to rotate to water without losing DPS. However, it does have better access to boons which is important for a power build in solo play as your damage tends to be pretty low without them, especially if you're also sacrificing for sustain.
By comparison, I find that a condi build like trailblazer weaver can deal similar or even better damage over time to fully offensive power builds with boons (up to 25k dps) in solo play without quickness, fury, and consistent might uptime.
Confirming it is the boons, ability to swap to water without losing dps, and the AOE weakness access Catalyst has that makes it much easier to sustain. The heal is also very useful at clearing condi's without the channel penalty of ether renewal.
That said, AliamRationem is right about trailblazer weaver being high reward with a lot of extra cushion, especially compared to berserker/power builds.
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1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:
Im talking about sPVP, those numbers might be true on a training dummy, or pve. Also, does that condi damage rely on other sources of condi? becuase on tempest (even scepter) your condi damage is hard carried by overloads, utility slots and fire auras on scepter or staff. Dagger condi isnt that great either, easily clensed (ele in general), very close range, it only works due to the sustain from running condi lines+weapon utility, attrition race. Just about every other spec does better and faster condi damage than ele, even core thief, which matters, becuase burst/condi bomb > ele condi in group fights (imo).
Ah that's true for sPvP.
The build is just a weaver build iirc, but it's definitely adapted for PvE rather than PvP environments.
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17 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:
The staff does bad condi damage, so to currently use it as dps, pushes you into FA, basically.
Isn't there a condi staff build that's pushing like 41k dps? And it's like a 2k dps loss if you don't use burning retreat?
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1 hour ago, Dreddo.9865 said:
Just a small update. Your advice helped a lot but still weaver was the most disappointing of all the ele specs I tried so far. Now I am on Catalyst and it is so satisfying to play with this spec. I am using Lord Hizen's Celestial Catalyst build (Water instead of Earth compared to AliamRationem's and with hammer) the dps is good but the survivability is very high - even compared to necro who I main. Now I am finally having some enjoyment with elementalist again. 🙂
Again, thank you all very much.
This makes sense, Catalyst has a ton of survivability baked in.
I usually only play Weaver if I'm in a role play mood. The weaver specific advice you got here is correct though, if you're having trouble with condis then add a condi clear from either Fire trait (Burning Fire), utilities (Cleansing Fire), heal (Ether Renewal), or sigil (Cleansing Sigil). Don't be rigid, adapt to what you're fighting.
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On 12/1/2023 at 4:41 AM, noneHotBuildTest.7251 said:
Hey there, fellow Elementalists and anyone who enjoys slinging some elemental magic!
I've got a question for you. What's the deal with the Catalyst, seriously?I mean, I was looking at this class after the balance patch, and it seems like they didn't change much.
There are a few Quality of Life tweaks, but the whole picture still seems kinda unfinished.
I'm not entirely sure what ArenaNet had in mind, but from a player's perspective, the Catalyst feels like a bit of a miss.They say it's supposed to be this 'steadfast presence on the battlefield',
But You will found that a defensively built Scrapper to be way more survivable with all its dodges and evades.
Heck, even my condi Tempest had some pretty decent defense and sustainability.
In comparison, those Hammer 3 balls on the Catalyst felt too limiting for me, and the slow channeled Hammer 2s?
Yeah, they were just plain clunky. Even when I had Celestial gear on, I couldn't find a good reason to switch from Celestial Scrapper to Celestial Catalyst,
Because the Scrapper's Hammer felt way more responsive for a frontline melee weapon.I saw some clips where they were talking about the stationary golem DPS benchmark for the Catalyst being pretty high.
But you know what? It's a whole different story in PvP, WvW, open world, and other game modes where everything's moving around like crazy.
So, is that it? Is the Catalyst just a full-on DPS spec with a litte of Quickness on a ideally golem?
If that's the case, it's pretty underwhelming.I honestly think the Catalyst itself might be confused about what it's supposed to be and how it fits in with the other Engineer specs.
I mean, adding another spec like Engineer, it can do all the things like buffing 10 people alacrity, being a top-notch healer, dishing out 200% Quickness,
slapping on massive barriers, being the resurrection champ, keeping stability up, and still cranking out top DPS...
it's a bit confusing when the Engineer already has so much going on.Catalyst is incredibly strong and provides several key boons in various game modes.
In open world (without offensive/defensive jade bot buffs), you can critically provide self quickness with damage to speed up those "slow 2 skills". I saw someone mention you may want to drop air sphere, but do note that ALL spheres give quickness now, not just air. You also get aegis, fury, might, vigor, resolution, and protection (PvE), vigor/aegis/protection/resolution helping you avoid damage and fury/might improving your output. I play Hammer Catalyst full zerker in PvE and nearly never go down because of this combined with the self utility (heals, condi clears, blocks) on the weapon itself. Moreover, through these fields, you can get even MORE utility (might, heals, damage reduction).
I also play catalyst with sword/warhorn and scepter/warhorn, to much to the same effect.
In WvW, Catalyst provides Resistance, allowing you to avoid immob bombs and helps your team escape soft CC effects. In WvW, only air sphere provides quickness, but you can use that on bomb call. Even if you're playing DPS, these capabilities can provide the necessary support in a pinch and if you're playing support, they further augment your ability to provide utility to your team.
If you can get these boons from somewhere else, you can align yourself with the snowcrows build; however, it's worth taking the sphere traits if you don't have access.
3 hours ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:Every weapon besides staff, scepter, and focus fit the "why is this on ele" criteria, so idk if thats a good criteria. In my mind any weapon can fit the fantasy if they make it imbued with elemental effects, since it was released with D/D in a close combat build that functioned more like a duelist should have indicated that was the planned idea. Then tempest added pbaoe as it's skill mechanic, and ever since then everything has been focused on a melee/combat oriented elemental user.
But to me it's not about what weapon makes an elemental class a mage, but more how that design is implemented. I just think we shouldn't be caught up on the weapon making no sense in our respective ideas on what an elementalist should be thematically, because Anet is allowed to have a unique take on it and I think it's a breath of fresh air, but we should focus on the absolute lack of design philosophy and what they have to add to make these shoehorned playstyles work. Hammer isn't bad because it uses a hammer skin for it's abilities, it's bad because to make it work you have to have a heck ton of stat boosts so it can survive as a bruiser, and all those stats mess with other builds, and then you get a traitline like catalyst that is just a bunch of stat boosts and doesn't work with any weapon other than the one it was designed around. It wasn't designed to fit with elementalist, it was designed as it's own closed system that is basically a pre-built build with no variation.
I personally love playing hammer catalyst, the rotation makes more sense to me and is easier while also being able to tank hits for once, but I hate that that's all it can do. No other weapon or build works with the trait line, and like every other espec it has caused the other builds and skills to take a hit in order to keep hammer cata afloat.
When I started playing this game, I only wanted to use staff (and sometimes, I still do use only staff) because it aligned with what I thought a mage was. However, upon playing D/D, it opened my mind up to what this class could really do. That is to say, +1 to this. Be open to new ideas and explore them. Hammer is easily one of the most fun weapons on Elementalist currently.
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On 11/24/2023 at 2:00 PM, Helgaley.3619 said:
If Anet wants the professions to be balanced in terms of numbers and roles they can fulfill but not balanced in terms of design and complexity, then that is inherently going to lead to the current situation where certain professions are left behind because there is no reward for mastering them. The average player is always going to lean towards bringing professions that offer the highest output for the lowest effort, and I just want to be clear that I think that's perfectly fine. It's fun, you know you're contributing, and unlike complex professions like Elementalist, you aren't going to feel like a burden to the group by either being in downstate all the time or making mistakes in your rotation that ruin your output.
It's important to note that the opposite is also true. If ele was the "above and beyond" highest dps class, then players would be punished for not being able to play/perform with that class. If the elementalist DPS is incrementally better, then we have the same discussion as now, where it's not worth it over the "utility".
On 11/24/2023 at 2:00 PM, Helgaley.3619 said:The point I think others are getting at, myself included, is that if complexity and effort is not rewarded, then people aren't going to want to play it. It's that simple. If the profession cannot do anything that other professions can't do better for less effort, then that is fundamentally bad game design that, as you've said yourself, doesn't discourage people from bringing that profession in their groups because it discourages the average player from wanting to play that profession in the first place.
Believe it or not, there are people who do enjoy something for the sake of enjoying it. Personally, the only reason why I play GW2 is because of the elementalist's design and how unique it is to anything else out there.
Since the beginning of this game, Elementalist has ALWAYS been advertised as the class where, "you have double the buttons. Individually, they're weaker, in concert, you can pull of some effects". If this idea aligns with you, Elementalist is probably a good class for you to play. This is to say, by design, Elementalist is the class that doesn't have a singular, "i win" button but rather, a sequence of actions. When you view the balance of Elementalist from this perspective, the choices, elite specs, and weapons make sense; moreover, you can then begin to offer feedback inline with the goals of the class.
If you don't like these ideas, then it's not a problem of Elementalist being bad game design, but rather, you don't like the goals of Elementalist--and that's okay.
On 12/1/2023 at 10:10 AM, Kheros.7256 said:i don’t want ele to be easier, but it should be more rewarding for the effort, complexity and flawless play level you need to do.
The reward is that you play well.
To answer the prompt for myself, I think Elementalist shines in situations where flexibility is needed. For me this is most obvious in medium-large scale WvW, where you can alternate between support and damage, strategically identifying when to augment CC efforts, bombs, and recovery/positioning. When I play other classes in WvW, I often feel like I'm not doing anything because of how context specific their actions are.
I also notice this in open world PvE, where you can solo various levels of content and can quickly adapt to a situation by swapping traits. Someone mentioned celestial gear as a way to enhance this identity and I agree (but I tend to use a pure offensive setup or mix an offensive setup with some celestial).
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6 hours ago, Barnesy.5839 said:
Why didn't you provide a poll option for people who like ele pistol?
You're going to get a pretty biased sample if the people who like ele pistol don't have a poll option to choose.
Because the goal wasn't to get an unbiased sample on pistol.
With the current poll options, one can report "100% of respondents think pistol is ok or worse. Anet failed at making an engaging weapon!11!!!1!!"
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8 hours ago, solemn.9670 said:
Ele is perpetually stuck as a class that is 1) unplayable and weak & 2) overpowered unkillable class
Just depends on who you ask and how good the ele in question is
For the 11 years I have played this game, this forum has non-stop complained about ele. In the very beginning, I rolled mesmer on release just cause of the advice, hated it, went ele and it was busted (D/D).
When Tornado gave you stats and you could literally solo wipe a zerg with meteornado, I was reading posts on this forum about buffing staff because it lacks damage.
When Catalyst came out and was buffed several times, this forum complained about how bad it was when it was, busted (I play PvE/WvW and it was oppressive). Even after the nerfs, Catalyst was still incredibly strong.
Some people were advocating for Weaver as the better build. I played it for a bit and it has absolutely none of the survivability catalyst has in solo play.
All this to say, you can't really listen to this forum. There are some really great/informed opinions here and there, but an overwhelming majority are not useful.
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32 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:
Cata: Not a single bugfix for catalyst (air 4 says hi).
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1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:
People criticise it as a boon DPS because in practice it's probably the hardest and least reliable quickness spec since maintaining quickness requires making sure you always switch to air at the right time, and with sufficient energy, without the benefit of being able to see the air sphere's cooldown. It's also hard to be reactive with other boons because they require being in (or able to switch to) the right attunement at the right time with a build that pushes rapid swapping.
This is all going to be a PvE context, open world and instanced content
There's a flow to maintaining quickness on Catalyst and it's quite consistent. There's several variations of this based on different attunement orders. You'll almost always want to visit air off cooldown because it contains some of your highest damaging skills and utility.
1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:People criticise the hammer because it's another melee weapon - the 'favours ranged' profession is 3/3 for melee specs and now has more melee than ranged weapons (it could have been a good melee/ranged hybrid, but they dropped the ball by giving it 600 range and slow projectile speeds). I'll admit it has an interesting rotation, but a ranged weapon or a genuine hybrid weapon could have had that too.
I think Hammer is much more interesting weapon than this forum gives it credit for.
1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:Any similarities they have in playstyle with other elite specs on the same profession are because they're based on the core profession. The elite specialisations are all going in different directions, but because they're all starting from the same foundation, it takes something pretty extreme to completely change their playstyle. Catalyst, however, feels like it's not just building from the same foundation, it's reusing features that were already in Weaver and Tempest, when people wanted something that actually went in a different direction.
I think a lot of the issues people have with Catalyst is also based on the core profession. Elementalist has 4 attunements. Each attunement features varying degrees of damage and utility.
I would argue that Catalyst is a better personification of the Elementalist profession because it's one of the few builds where it's actually viable to visit all the attunements unlike the other rotations that swap between 2 elements unless Weave Self is off cooldown.
One of the biggest let down for other Elementalist especs for me was that going outside of particular attunements was almost always a dps loss (unless for Weave Self, which entire point is to just extend the duration of the relevant buffs, not all of them). To demonstrate, when's the last time you were like, "I need to Weave Self for Woven Water" or "I need to Weave Self for Woven Earth". Air is more relevant now with the damage bonus on top of the movement speed, but Weave Self was primarily for Condi builds until this change.
The orbs on hammer are relevant because they A: Generate Energy and B: Provide survivability along with damage. Catalyst is at its best when it's surrounded by enemies to cleave. Energy can be weird when you're only hitting 1 target as mentioned above, but you'll find yourself with more energy than you know what to do with when you have orbs + multiple targets around you.
If you'll allow me to shift to a WvW Staff context for a second, one of the most interesting parts of Catalyst is that you're rewarded for setting up your group through CC and if you choose, dodging abilities. The flow of maximizing EE stacks in WvW is quite satisfying, as once you've performed the setup stage, it's typically time to bomb. Weaver often has more damage/abilities than what is necessary for organized play and it's more of a chore to access your CC abilities while also trying to ensure your rotation can maximize your self buffs for the bomb. I've done statistical analysis of the damage outputs, normalizing for some other metrics, and found that the damage difference between Catalyst and Weaver is not statistically relevant (but we can discuss more on that later).
1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:Don't get me wrong: Catalyst is reasonably functional for what it does (although I do wonder if what it really does is serve as a gateway to Weaver).
Personally, I have no interest in really playing Weaver after playing Catalyst. This is coming from someone who only played Weaver prior to Catalyst. I did momentarily visit it after some buff patches, but Hammer Catalyst just has an overall nicer playstyle and smoother rotation.
1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:If ArenaNet was to come out with a statement that they'd had a couple of ideas in mind but went with Catalyst because they figured it fit Cantha better*, but that we shouldn't worry because they have something else in the works which will be more in line with what people were asking for, then we wouldn't have this thread. But they've done the opposite. While I think people are grossly overstating the 'no more elite specialisations' case, ArenaNet's statements have at least cast reasonable doubt on the idea that there will be more coming that can fill the gaps that remain. Catalyst would be fine in isolation. What makes people angry is that if there are only going to be three elite specialisations, the third should not have been something that feels like it was cobbled together from ideas that had already been used with the first two.
This forum has been upset with Catalyst for a while, even when it was one of the strongest builds in the game. I've been playing this game for over 11 years now. I've nearly always found Elementalist to be fine (a few cases do exist where this is not true) and I come to this forum and it seems like the sky is falling.
There was also a period of time where people had a weird obsession with longbow.
Not necessarily accusing you of this, because we've had great interactions in the past, but I feel like the most of the problems with Elementalist is the forum just not giving it a honest chance.
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For some context, Elementalist is not the only class I play. Currently, I'm playing (but have played more in the past):
- DPS Catalyst (PvE, WvW)
- Boon Catalyst (PvE, WvW)
- Boon Herald (PvE)
- DPS Vindicator (PvE)
- DPS Herald (WvW)
- DPS Harbinger (PvE, WvW)
- Boon Harbinger (PvE, WvW)
- Strip Scourge (WvW)
This list is organized by my favorite to least favorite to play. I want to highlight this because of the comments on other boon dps and I think Catalyst has the smoothest application of quickness outside of the just sit there Harbinger.
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Honestly, I think Catalyst is the best and most interesting elite spec we have. I do play it primarily with hammer in PvE and staff in WvW, but it's pretty strong and has always been strong since its release.
With no more elite specs, I'm pretty content with the options we have, even though I rarely play Weaver nowadays and Tempest only when I need to alac.
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On 2/12/2023 at 2:15 AM, MarzAttakz.9608 said:
Got it - read your reply during a short break last night before things went ham on home border. I think I may drop Shattering Ice outside of fighting small-scale havoc or other pug groups, too much cleansing for it make a significant difference.
That's a good point and an approach I tested with good results especially considering the movement after initially bombing. Thank you. It was incredibly frustrating watching an entire stacked boonball eating double Lava Font + Meteor Shower with Relentless Fire thrown in repeatedly. And they weren't even particularly good. Target caps need to be revisited if they're not going to do anything about this obscene abundance of boons.
This was surprisingly effective and despite losing the -10% damage taken and stats from ascended food made a significant difference.
Thank you again. Solid feedback all round.
Spiced peppercorn cheesecake is the ascended food that gives this stat combo
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16 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
That's my issue with catalyst / hammer ; sure it's L2P issue and I don't have time and envy anymore to invest hours in each game modes but everytime I play catalyst I spend more time looking at my skillbar and buffs to not interrupt #2, to see If I don't lose the circular orbs, to see my energy low and suddenly taking +10 for no reason, etc rather than actually looking at the enemies on the field. Plus Hammer has only one gameplay/rotation enjailed with orbs, and no departures allowed. Even Staff feels more fluid and flexible.
I've already reach a certain level with weaver and elementalist overall through years; I thought it'll be easier to handle Catalyst with that experience but it's clearly not as enjoyable for me.While I see people still struggling with weaver sword, no need to speak about Fresh air, I get why they can't even look at Catalyst.
I think it's a bit sad the elite spec has such a high skillfloor with gatekeeping and no flexibilityWith the orbs, the key is to cast them while another ability is channeling, this prevents the accidental shootoff.
A delay would certainly make this easier to deal with, but it also removes the burst aspect of grand finale (quickly popping off the fourth orb to spike someone down).
I've been pretty much playing hammer exclusively for open world and instanced pve content since it came out (some swaps to staff here and there when needed), and I find it gets easier the more I use it. I hope you try it out again in the future, I think it's the most enjoyable elementalist weapon.
9 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:I honestly find weaver easier and more enjoyable than catalyst. (edit, it's not perfect either, and weaver has suffered a lot through patchs)
May be I'm biased as I mainly played weaver since PoF release and videosfrom Solemn, cellofrag, Exzen ... Idk.I don't think it's weird, I too think Weaver is easier than Catalyst (exception being Condi Weaver), for all the reasons you listed here.
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52 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:
Problem with that is catalyst doesn't have innate team support whatsoever , jade sphere might suffice as boon output in PVP due to nodes but not in WVW where mobility is king, and the range is limited to 600 unless you play scepter mainhand or with a staff. Without the recently buffed scepter and a bunch of EE stacks on top it is far weaker than any kind of tempest : if you're going to be just above melee range you are far better off with tempest. The same goes for any support build: without heals on aura sharing your only real option is healing from staff and utilities which are core utilities. Catalyst's main draw in group WVW since its inception is double meteor which is extremely niche.
This isn't just my opinion , you can clearly see squads favoring tempest over catalyst by a large margin and aura tempest has been a staple for a while ever since scrapper stealth gyro was nerfed.
Dragon's tooth is slated to be nerfed probably so unless you mean dagger+dagger catalyst or hammer builds both of which are more or less melee builds (Hurricane of Pain , Triple Sear which is unreliable, and Surging Flames being the main exceptions) designed for PVP or lowman without boon rip or shared stability. Care to elaborate?
I think Catalyst has the capabilities for team support, at least good considering it's damaging outputs. It is weapon dependent and I'm typically talking about staff and sc/d in WvW groups. There are ways to generate EE stacks, whether it's through dodges, cc, or arcane for immob. This depends upon how a guild plays and their general strategies, but possible while still outputting a good amount of dps whether its backloaded (staff) or more spike (sc/d). In some cases, we have builds that forego Empowered Empowerment for Sphere Specialist and ignore the EE game. The advantage comes from quick access to staff's hard and soft cc or scepters damage abilities, when compared to weaver. Yes double meteor is niche, but a well placed one in a coordinated spike applies a lot of pressure.
I don't think Catalyst and Tempest are competing for spots. Tempest typically takes the support role for heal and cleanses. Catalyst is a dps slot.
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On 12/28/2022 at 12:16 PM, Infusion.7149 said:
How do you even main catalyst? It's been out only since February.
(snip)
Also in PVP/WVW you adapt far more than PVE ever will. Half the skills don't even do damage due to hard CC as of Feb 2020 and the targets aren't scripted.
Infusion catching an L wasn't on my 2022 bingo card.
Infusion has great insights, but I have some disagreements. When this thread initially came out, I rolled my eyes for reasons already listed (They nerfed from 47k/46k -> 42k/43k). The initial post in this thread is very hyperbolic in how the nerf impacts Catalyst's overall damage.
But my biggest disagreement is one cannot main Catalyst and Catalyst has no use in WvW. I've been playing Catalyst pretty much exclusively when I can, switching only when needed and for me, it's definitely the strongest elite spec Elementalist has access to, especially in WvW.
If QoL is added, that's fine with me; however, I don't see anything wrong with Catalyst right now.
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With that out of the way, thanks for the Earth Elemental tech, that's genius and very similar thought process I used to maintain EE stacks in WvW.
For those having bench issues with Catalyst, the mistakes I commonly see is: not simultaneously casting spells and cancelling the 2 abilities in Air, Water, and Earth. Get a keybind setup that makes it convenient to simultaneously cast abilities, bonus if you can get a mouse with some buttons on it (I have about 5 abilities keybound to my mouse).
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13 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:
Don't know where you take that , but i am average and i am mostly blocked at 28-30k , while doing the same on mech pew pew scratching my a** , this spec has to keep too many tracks of everything , and for the boonuptime , who care about a random aegis , who care about 5-6 stacks of might , that every spec can give more frequently now , same for the other boons , its' already covered , too many things too kepp tarck on , the stealth energy mechanic , who don't charge up for like 4 secondes after launching a sphere , making you AA like an idiot to upkeep the next 3 attunements with a sphere , the EE stacks , powerfull indeed , but so hard to upkeep (not talking about a moving boss...) , and i forgot maybe half off the other things to keep track on , but for all that difficulty it deserve to be a little bit checked by a big QOL team (making EE efficiency +100% regardless how many stacks , more way to have aura finishe, giev ele an actual good ult , tired to use fiery GS just to spam 5 and 4 then drop... )
You need to simultaneously cast abilities more, that's probably your first blocker.
The second is animation cancelling.
Overall I agree Catalyst's rotation is easier than Sword Condi Weaver because it's less to memorize. Sword Power Weaver is much easier than both though.
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20 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:
Anyone else find it hilarious that Catalyst hammer orbs were pre-nerfed? It was poorly though out to have up to 1.0 coefficient per second tick, up to 0.4 coefficient per tick is saner.
Look at Roul's channel if you haven't already lol
1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:I wish the Cone of cold update got carried over to wvw too it would of made dagger/x tempest a realty good healer with out needing aura healing.
dagger/dagger tempest is already incredibly good at healing without aura healing.
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Duplicated post - removed
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6 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:
Ye, played my ele over 5k hrs in WvW, think i should be able to know how the gamemode works by now. Sure you can white Knight all you want and pretend that scepter will be a real thing in WvW but in the end it simply wont. PvE HAT is absolutely gutted with the proposed balance changes aswell.
This caught me off guard because I feel like anyone who plays WvW would recognize the backloaded damage of staff and see how these scepter changes would benefit those spike centric fight. Even before this patch, ele's in my guild would run scepter as a "meme setup" for the spike damage.
Moreover, I'm not the only one thinking this. In the other thread on this subject, WvW and sPvP players are pointing this out. On reddit and within my guild, people are also thinking in the same direction. Low channel time, damage abilities (in the case of Ele, it's likely we need to stack a few because of the nature of the class) is favored in WvW.
6 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:Sure the pvp/roam community will get a new toy to play with and thats completely fine with me. But the severe lack of proper balancing, breaking of proper working mechanics and lack of fixing some of the long lasting bugs/issues is simply inexcuseable.
Once again, even if you doubt the capabilities of these builds on the patch release, you're choosing to sacrifice their ability for a single build that utilizes a single ability (Water Trident) for the possibility of builds that use multiple Scepter abilities for a Spike Damage oriented play style. You're not even considering the possibility of buffing other healing options, on top of the already buffed Elemental Bastion.
4 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:😂
I probably should have combined the two sentences, but the sentence you are reacting to is a continuation of the previous sentence. You say you have 5k hours in WvW, so it should feel pretty obvious that no one is dying at 900+ range with the proper support in party.
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2 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:
Its not just about the dmge coefficients though... Most classes are able to provide alot of extra utility/boonrip/Support. Scepter doesn't provide any of that. Like i mentioned usually over 80% of the fight takes place outside 900 range. The moment the zerg dips in 900 range, all classes have some incredibly powerful long cd skills ready (like wells/grav). Scepter hasn't got any of that. Even for small scale roaming its usually a very easy target for the enemy team.
Yes these changes will positively impact the scepter in roaming/pvp, but outside of the very few ele players that enjoy playing scepter in pvp, these changes are practically irrelevant (except the nerf on PvE HAT).
To give you a chance to reply without double posting. In addition to my post above, there are ways for Ele to provide utility and support while being a potent damage dealer. I'm not going to further elaborate on my ideas in this regard. I'm not sure what tier you're playing in, but my guild hovers in tier 1/tier 2 and the fights follows specific phases I outlined above. The large bombs are typically melee range where the two groups are colliding with each other. Sometimes, the groups aren't touching, but you are certainly closer than 900 range 100% of the time.
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1 hour ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:
Unless they make some serious changes to the damage coefficients its not really gonna provide any meaningful dmge outside of dragons tooth and Phoenix, so probably no viable dps rotations on PvE. For WvW zergs it isn't great either. 900 range is basically the dead zone in zergfights 90% of the time, so you'll end up vulnerable all the time. Besides that scepter hasn't got anything outside of dps, no group support, cc, voorop or whatsoever.
These skills already had meaningful damage and from the notes, some of these skills have damage boosts based on certain conditions.
I don't have time to explain all the phases of WvW fights to you, but this youtube video does a really good job of it. 900 range is pretty good, but majority of the spike damage will happen in melee range. Meaning scepter's 900 range isn't a big deal. Something else to note, you can drop this damage while being mobile. Which is huge.
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1 hour ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:So 3/4 of the changes of the elementalist goes to a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase while at the same time it actually removes the main heal of one of the most popular elementalist PvE builds out there. Its just plain stupid dev favouritism. CMC likes pvp ele, used to play/played the game whenever scepter pvp was popular, suddenly decides to buff/change it, doesn't care a single bit about the mess it causes towards the rest of the profession while simultaneously ignoring way bigger & more important problems.
It's not a fraction of a fraction. As Infusion mentioned, there's already DPS Scepter builds that just need a bit of a boost to be relevant. Now you're adding sPvP and WvW. This has the potential to be relevant in all game modes. To give you a bone, even if the numbers are bad, these things are easily tweakable.
Note that in a group setting, no one is relying on a single player to provide all of the damage. Generating downs in WvW is a GROUP effort. It's about the ability to layer multiple damage abilities in one spot at the correct time. The fact these Scepter changes let ele do this means that it is EASIER for people who want to play Ele in WvW to get groups. Staff required the Ele player to be EXTREMELY competent at understanding and predicting movement of the groups. The new Scepter abilities, at least from the stream preview, are in line with other spike classes that are heavily desirable in WvW.
1 hour ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:Meanwhile playrate of ele is at an all time low. Catalyst's skill/damage gap has grown even further. Sword Weaver still has very low risk/reward ratio. PvE Tempest lost its main source of healing, HAT is back at trash tier support class. Majority of the ele community is now forced into sc/f Weaver, a spec that isn't really loved by the ele community.
Not relevant to the discussion imo and having a single ability to keep a weapon viable sounds much worse compared to having 12 abilities keeping the weapon viable.
1 hour ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:Staff dps is still trash in WvW with delay upon all of its attacks and skills that hit like a wet noodle. Only viable place to play it at is against barely coordinated groups that keep standing in your AoE fields for no good reason. Support Tempest did get a decent buff though so that hopefully makes them abit more relevant again. Still, there's no solution for any of the long lasting support elementalists problems like the lack of any decent stability (which is now ALOT more important due to the massive stability nerfs on guard).
Tempest is huge in WvW right now. Just an fyi. Staff Ele requires the Ele player to understand WvW dynamics really well. These scepter change are going to give a little more leeway.
1 hour ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:Right now playing dps ele in PvE feels like playing a worse version of dps mesmer. HAT/ WvW htemp feels like playing a worse version of druid. WvW staff dps feels like a worse version of Herald.
I only play Ele in PvE and I don't feel like I'm being hindered at all. I'm typically running Catalyst nowadays. This is also not relevant.
Overall, a build that is relying on a SINGLE ABILITY from a weapon, two abilities if we want to stretch the blast finisher, is not worth the effort to keep when we can unlock a NEW PLAYSTYLE for elementalist that would make it more desirable in PvP settings.
This forum complains about how Ele is not viable in X, Y, and Z game mode, but this scepter change is one that will actually unlock capabilities in WvW and PvE.
8 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:Very few nonprojectiles have over 2.0 coefficient in one hit in WvW , even CoR doesn't and the pathing is horrible now ; True Shot is projectile and scepter symbol is DoT
Fresh air scepter has been relevant in smallscale before and was a popular spike damage in PvP. So if you are only fixated on large scale obviously you want staff due to more cleave from auto and lava font.
Correct as always Infusion; however, I do want to note that staff's capabilities in large scale coordinate fights is dependent upon the Elementalist player. These changes will encourage WvW fight centric guilds to add Elementalist as a DPS slot for shade spikes and bombs since it reduces the backloaded nature of Elementalist. Even if the damage is slightly off, these things are easy ratio tweaks.
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8 minutes ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:
What Burst damage? The moving dragons tooth that you can just easily Dodge out of if you time it correctly? Flamestrike, stone shards, arc lightning or rock barrier don't deal barely any Pdps at all?
I mean dont get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with most of these changes, but the nerf of water Trident is simply horrible. Just revert the changes on water Trident and its all fine.
Flamestrike has a faster and smoother channel
Dragon's tooth is now mobile
Phoenix (it can be blocked by projectile hate)
Ice shards has a faster and smoother animation, aftercast removed (can be blocked by projectile hate)
New shatterstone that slows
New Trident
New Lightning strike that is now AOE
New Blinding Flash that provides sustain
Rock barrier provides resistance and barrier, not spike damage, but huge for a quick moment of self sustain in WvW
New Dust Devil that is now ground targeted.
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From the preview, all of these skills had a pretty small cast time as well, meaning you can apply multiples from several attunements at once. In the context of organized WvW, where coordinated bombs are called, this is huge. It's essentially making Elementalist into a similar niche as Dragonhunter and old Herald.
Other users are talking about it's potential in roaming and sPvP. I'm not an expert in those areas, so I will leave it to those users to come here and add their perspectives.
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I'm fine with losing the healing on Scepter. With this update, Scepter fills the niche of a burst weapon that Elementalist is missing. Also, the added damage in Water will add some synergy to existing water traits.
By not reverting this change, we're increasing the diversity of Elementalist options. Staff has some ranged healing options and dagger can provide some extra healing when used in conjunction with warhorn. Even the WvW tempest build runs d/d due to the high amount of cleansing and healing the setup can provide.
These benefits are worth the loss of a build that only cares for 2 abilities out of the 12 and opens up builds that will utilize all 12 of those abilities. From a utility perspective, the correct choice is obvious.
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Big Fail! Pistol is the worst weapon.
in Elementalist
Posted
I wasn't playing with Tempest, but interesting to see I was on the right track with the rotation I came up with for Pistol Catalyst. When I get some free time, I'll see how it compares to this.