Xantaria.8726

June 1, 2021

well i havent done the achievment and 2 of 3 are bugged for me as well, dont get them for both the new and the old achievment.

October 22, 2018

@Blaeys.3102 said:As an update - according to this poll (which is probably the most responded too poll ever in these forums), more than 2/3 of the respondents feel raids need work, with 57 percent (as of today) advocating for the inclusion of easier modes.
Again, it isn't likely to happen for a number of reasons (developer reticience, lack of resources, requiring a philosophical change at Anet), but it is interesting to see that, even here on the raiding subforum (where you can assume there are fewer non-raiders visiting), the numbers are that heavily in favor of that kind of change.
People (the same 2-3 that always do) can argue with that all they want, but the numbers are there for anyone who bothers to actually see them.

Which are quite questionable since only a small amount of players are active here.I would be far more interessed in an actual poll from anet, with a notification ingame about that poll so we can for the love of god have solid numbers for anything. 99% of this forums numbers or meassurements are pure speculation. Basing anything on it, being easy mode raids, new meta, the halloween event impression or whatever, is not really a solid argument and i would highly question it if anet would actual base deccisions on such small, unrepresantive polls.

September 17, 2018

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Oh, I did some raids, too. Not all were fails ofc. But we also had those evenings when we failed for 3 hours and it wasn't me, since I knew the mechanics, but always one or two who didn't get it. And that's just depressing.

I agree that this is frustrating, yet this wont disappear with LFR. Opposite, once those who use LFR realize that they wont get a kill at all with this, cause like i mentioned above, LFR cant work in GW2 cause their is no proper way to decide for a system what counts as a healer and what not, they will once again go into the lfg and make the same things as before. Unless Anet actual went out of his way and declare what spec is a Tank, a DPS and a Healer, which would make even more casual players cry out loud, since everytime something like this is mentioned, they make an outcry that they dont want any trinity cause thats the reason for them playing GW2.

An easy mode could handle this, yet we have a thread below with many pro and con about this why an easy mode should or shouldnt be in this game.

September 17, 2018

@Tyson.5160 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@ProtoGunner.4953 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@ProtoGunner.4953 said:
@Cyninja.2954 said:
@"Daniel.5428" said:I am here still hoping we will soon get an raid group-making system like the LFR in WoW. The days of people who were ready to spend 10 hours to try some bosses are over, Blizzard understood it and they try to make the raids more enjoyable and forgiving.

Are you honestly comparing LFR trash tier wannabe raids to actual raid content? I hope not.

LFR is not raiding, no matter how much your ego might want it to be. It's a gimmick rollercoster of loot giver, nothing more. The mere fact that you get stacking bonuses for FAILING should be kind of obvious.

LFR and raids have 1 thing in common: more than x amount of people. That's about it. If that is your definition of raiding, then raids are not for you and neither is challenging content.

Dude chill. There are people who just do it for content and not for actual challenge. I was raiding in WoW before LFR, I am now older and I don't have the time to fail for 3 hours in a raid. It just isn't suited for me anymore. That's why I would welcome a LFR.

What is there to chill?

I never said I was against having large scale easy content. That is fine by me. I disagree that this content is a raid though.

Obviously the term "raid" has a different meaning to different people, which is fine. To use the abomination that is LFR though as justification to dumb down content in other games is just not okay. If you want easy group content that is great, I enjoy that too. I guess a majority of the easy group content in this game is not appealing though since it actually provides rewards on exactly the same level: low.

The difference to WoW is simple. Blizzard feeds you trash epic items with a nice color which are approximately 2 color tiers of GW2 items lower item level wise (and depreciate over time on top of that). Would you still run easy "raid" group content if all it rewarded was rares? I doubt many people would.

Depends of what you want. When I was younger and started with MMOs about 15 years ago, I wanted challenge and rewards was secondary. I didn't even think about rewards. I had a lot of time as a student and I liked challenge. Actually, I like challenge still, but only in single player games, since I can rely on myself (like Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Nioh etc.).

Anyway, I don't have time to fail for 3 hours at a boss and so I want to see that content. It is a raid nonetheless, dumbed down, but who cares. It just is the atmosphere. We were taught and conditioned to have raids was they were: hard, long, exhausting, rewarding. These times are just over, get over it. The landscape of gaming and gamers changed - at least in the mass marked. Games which tried to relive and revitalize this (i.e. Wildstar) failed miserably.

Which is fine, if raids had a story as tied in as in WoW. They do not.

There is nothing to see in raids, which you would understand if you had done one.

It is quite literally wasted resources developer wise to add LFR style raids in GW2. The entire itemization mechanic does not support it and please don't disillusion yourself. If LFR raids in WoW did not offer low tier bling (which they constantly upgrade to remains lowest tier) you would not be doing those raids over and over.

It doesn’t stop the fact that people are still asking for something similar in nature to LFR.

Which wont work in Gw2, cause we dont have fixed roles as healer etc in our classes/especs.Unless you say everyone with x healpower is a healer. But then you would get a Magi Thief as a healer for examble.@ ProtoGunnerAlso last times i joined/leaded trainingsruns we didnt took 10h for a boss, many of the easy ones (w4 b1-3, vg, escort) can be done within 3h (depending on the people) with first timers. Have you actual tried to raid in gw2, or are you just saying what you heard from others?

September 13, 2018

@Feanor.2358 said:
@runeblade.7514 said:
@Xantaria.8726 said:
@runeblade.7514 said:
The same way I expect a new fractal player ease into fractals. The new fractal/raiders you described will not learn anything you outlined. But they will learn to defeat the mechanic of raids/fractals at a lower difficulty or never ascend to higher difficulty.
I don't care if a T4 player doesn't know what Heartseeker is. As long as he knows how to beat the fractal, that is all that matters.w1Which most players in t4 dont. We already have threads where people report that its actual even getting worse, with many of them having no idea how the mechanics work. Which propably comes from the simple reason that you can buy yourself into t4 buy buying infusions from the tp and you can get asc gear from either crafting, collections, lw3+4 maps and wvw/pvp. Many just skip the first tiers. Unless a solution like you cant enter a higher fractal then the one your own lvl is currently i dont see any sign of change in that behavior.Completly besides the point that raids are taking to long already.

It doesn't feel T4 pugs got bad to me. Whether its true or not, That player climbed his way to t4. He bought the gear and infusion with the gold he earned. I won't deny him t4.

However, if I was in his pug, I would either kick him or leave; The same way I expect from a hard mode raid. But this time, t1-t3 is always available to him to learn at an easier difficulty if he feels t4 is too hard. Meanwhile, Fractal players won't require him to ping his 250 Pristine Fractal relics just to join but, If t4 do start to do something like that right now, then t1-t3 is there for him.

As someone who plays (and pugs) fractals daily, allow me to disagree. There's a reason I

always

look for at least 100-150 kp groups who do full runs, cms included. And the reason isn't the extra reward, it's the avoided clown fiesta. The average T4 pug is quite terrible to be honest. Yes, you can manage to clear the daily fractals this way, too, but it takes considerably longer and more often than not is more annoying than fun.

And the thing is, the existence of the lower tiers doesn't really do anything for the progression, except delay it. The players who end up playing the "t4+cm" tier don't reach there because they had the lower tiers to "prepare". Lower tiers do nothing to prepare you. Even t4 doesn't do even remotely enough to prepare you for the cms. The players who end up playing in the top tier are simply those who like

this particular form of fun

-

challenging group content

. They, too, were playing new bosses they didn't know. They, too, wiped time and again. But they had the mindset to persist and master the challenge, so they did. No amount of easier tiers will make a player who doesn't like challenging content do well in one.

Exactly the same holds true for raids.

Can only agree.

September 12, 2018

@runeblade.7514 said:
The same way I expect a new fractal player ease into fractals. The new fractal/raiders you described will not learn anything you outlined. But they will learn to defeat the mechanic of raids/fractals at a lower difficulty or never ascend to higher difficulty.
I don't care if a T4 player doesn't know what Heartseeker is. As long as he knows how to beat the fractal, that is all that matters.

Which most players in t4 dont. We already have threads where people report that its actual even getting worse, with many of them having no idea how the mechanics work. Which propably comes from the simple reason that you can buy yourself into t4 buy buying infusions from the tp and you can get asc gear from either crafting, collections, lw3+4 maps and wvw/pvp. Many just skip the first tiers. Unless a solution like you cant enter a higher fractal then the one your own lvl is currently i dont see any sign of change in that behavior.Completly besides the point that raids are taking to long already.

September 7, 2018

@"Clyan.1593" said:I haven't started raiding yet, but as soon as I have finished my legendary backpiece it will become a thing for me. Mostly because I want legendary armor.
Now it really saddens me that my RL friends won't participate because they find it unfair you have to get ascended armor. Now I know for a lot of you this sounds rather like a joke, because getting ascended armor isn't big of a deal anymore. In fact, I myself have every profession fully equipped with ascended weapons + armor, and all of them even have over 150 AR. But I can totally understand that some people don't want to invest time into items in order to enjoy something big like a raid instance.One could ask why you need ascended equipment and the answer is probably obvious: Because you need the defense and the damage. Raids are supposed to be hard, but honestly I don't see why difficulty is connected so heavily to stat numbers AND to mechanical skill instead ONLY to mechanical skill. It seems a bit to me like the devs were trying to shoehorn you into a grind or buying gems in order to secure more playtime / money. Even today, without legendary armor, you have to play certain builds and some of them don't even are viable on every boss, forcing you to either play multiple professions or going for multiple ascended sets (or mystic toilet changing stats). Another problem of course is the necessity of a meta for those bosses because this again forces you into playing certain classes or stats.
I would totally welcome different difficulties, of course with less good rewards, simply to have more content I can enjoy with people that are very dear to me.

Just a little advise i stated earlier in this thread:"Cause you said it yourself: "but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear", which is wrong. A player who never raided before with full exotics but knowledge of his class and rotations will have a much easier time getting into raids than someone in full asc but doesnt know what he is doing.And yes, regular raid-commanders can see if someone doesnt know his class. Its quite easy if you do raids on a daily basis, which many raider do, being it cause they like to kill the bosses, helping out friends still needing the kills or helping new players in training runs. And i dont nned arc dps for that. If the newbie is just hitting autoattacks and is (as a dh for examble and being the only dh in party) not using traps than i can tell that he doesnt know what he is doing.What new players should do before trying to get into raids is informing themself about their class and the regular setup in raids (tank, supporter, dps). They dont need to hit "metabenchmarks", but they should at least be able to pull of dps if they join on a dps-spot, even in training. Cause trainingsruns arent there to teach people their class. they are there to teach people the raidencounter, and they dont help themself or the others in the squad if they cant pull of their role at least, which can be practised on the golem and fractals before. And learning a rotation isnt hard. Most builds, being them meta or non-meta, only takes maybe some dedicated 30 mins to get a roughly idea behind the build.Its just a fact that most bosses have a timer, so people need to pul ofl some dps. If people can pull of 20-25k dps on the golem, then they should reach 10-15k dps on a boss, which a dps role should at least pull of."

Having exotics only is perfectly fine, hell i even raided in yellow-green gear on my second account back then. What new raiders should look into that they know their class and in fact were testing their dmg output on the golem if they play a dps build before going into raids.

August 30, 2018

@DaFishBob.6518 said:
By the way, how often do you see training runs normally? Because if there are people who would regularly do training runs then I'll admit my ideas and concerns go out the window.

Congrats, join one of the many training run discords (NA and EU!) today to have your regular training run experience! Otherwise there are plenty of guilds if one would use reddit, discord or the lfg option in the game to actual search for one, aka open a lfg, saying you search for a trainings guild in the lfg message, and wait until one of the many guilds see the lfg (which simply can take a while, maybe try that on prime time?) and sends you a message.There are options, but people have to look closer than just 5 mins in the lfg and expecting there to be traingruns 24/7 and use the forum, lfg or reddit themself to search.

August 30, 2018

@DaFishBob.6518 said:
@Xantaria.8726 said:
@DaFishBob.6518 said:
@Sephylon.4938 said:
@DaFishBob.6518 said:I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

Not really, full exotics is fine for raids. You only go asc with infusions if you want to min-max it. Raids have been done in full greens too.

I understand it can be done with lesser gear but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear. That's why I'm recommending a chance for a newbie to walk into a different instance with the same raid content difficulty and be allowed to borrow a proper gear and build set to see if they can understand the raid well enough before going on to look for a raid group or get the gear to become a better group member.

Not really, you can raid with exotics and noone would notice, IF people practise their rotation at the golem and fractals before. Rotation is so much more important than going to asc, so much that a full asc player can be outdpsed by someone in full green if the one in asc gear has never at least checked if the stuff he is doing is good, which you can only know by compare your dps with others, being on bosses or golem.

I don't get why you're bringing up rotation if the person I'm talking about is a

newbie

that no one know what this person can do. You're all ignoring that I'm talking about someone that has never done a raid before and the people who would normally play the raids has no idea what kind of skill this

newbie

has. How is a

newbie

in exotics and/or below going to be a better choice to try than a

newbie

that has ascended with infusions? Or are they both going to have the same exact chance of getting in?

I mean are you saying people can actually see what the

newbie

has done in training or that they would actually follow the

newbie

into a training and watch them do their rotation? Do you think they'd actually take the time to see all that? Serious question because I'm in that camp of feeling like it'll be too much time to get the equipment before anyone would consider me in a raid.

Cause you said it yourself: "but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear", which is wrong. A player who never raided before with full exotics but knowledge of his class and rotations will have a much easier time getting into raids than someone in full asc but doesnt know what he is doing.And yes, regular raid-commanders can see if someone doesnt know his class. Its quite easy if you do raids on a daily basis, which many raider do, being it cause they like to kill the bosses, helping out friends still needing the kills or helping new players in training runs. And i dont nned arc dps for that. If the newbie is just hitting autoattacks and is (as a dh for examble and being the only dh in party) not using traps than i can tell that he doesnt know what he is doing.What new players should do before trying to get into raids is informing themself about their class and the regular setup in raids (tank, supporter, dps). They dont need to hit "metabenchmarks", but they should at least be able to pull of dps if they join on a dps-spot, even in training. Cause trainingsruns arent there to teach people their class. they are there to teach people the raidencounter, and they dont help themself or the others in the squad if they cant pull of their role at least, which can be practised on the golem and fractals before. And learning a rotation isnt hard. Most builds, being them meta or non-meta, only takes maybe some dedicated 30 mins to get a roughly idea behind the build.Its just a fact that most bosses have a timer, so people need to pul ofl some dps. If people can pull of 20-25k dps on the golem, then they should reach 10-15k dps on a boss, which a dps role should at least pull of.

August 29, 2018

@DaFishBob.6518 said:
@Sephylon.4938 said:
@DaFishBob.6518 said:I'm of the opinion that the raids should stay as they are for the most part, however there is a problem with getting people properly exposed to this content. Namely it takes way too long and too much preparation to even be considered for a raid. From what I understand, a new person to raids would have to pick up a meta build and then gear up that meta built class with full ascended and infusions and get the proper food and utilities for that build in order to be considered for a raiding group or at least get the greatest chance of being considered. Then after all that is done, they feel like they're just plain bad at raids if they fail and then never come back, even if there's a much easier raid wing available. They're already burned from all that preparation just to fail after all.

Not really, full exotics is fine for raids. You only go asc with infusions if you want to min-max it. Raids have been done in full greens too.

I understand it can be done with lesser gear but finding a group that would accept a newbie without the top gear is going to be tougher than with the gear. That's why I'm recommending a chance for a newbie to walk into a different instance with the same raid content difficulty and be allowed to borrow a proper gear and build set to see if they can understand the raid well enough before going on to look for a raid group or get the gear to become a better group member.

Not really, you can raid with exotics and noone would notice, IF people practise their rotation at the golem and fractals before. Rotation is so much more important than going to asc, so much that a full asc player can be outdpsed by someone in full green if the one in asc gear has never at least checked if the stuff he is doing is good, which you can only know by compare your dps with others, being on bosses or golem.

August 4, 2018

@BlueJin.4127 said:
@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Get proper gear and accessory befor stepping in to lvl 80 areas...with out it, youll be killing mobs forever because of your crappy damage....if ud like when i log on i can send you some coin to gear up properly its not that expensive 10g at most for a set of beserker gear i believe.

Thank you for the offer. :smile: While I appreciate the offer, I would like to try gearing up on my own. I want to experience the game as naturally as possible, if that makes any sense.

I think I might be killing things a little faster. Though I’m not sure if I am, or if the fight seemed faster because I was pulling things of my own will to test things. For certain, though, I am taking less damage, so getting accessories did make some impact.

Do you only have PoF? Or do you also own HoT and the Living world Storys? Cause if you dont then i would recommend you to at least get the Living world Season 3 Episode 3, cause on the map of that story you can farm winterberries, which you can trade for asc accessorys. (you can get ~50-60 Berries for each Character each day there, one accessory cost ~200-500 Berries depending on if its the backpack, ring etc) This would already be a huge upgrade on gear, even more if you dont even have exotic.Otherwise you could trade in some laurels for asc accessorys as well.Also if you are in need of money i would recommend HoT. The metas on those maps gives you a jewel you need for gen2 legys, which can be sold for ~1g50s each and you can get 4 each day, besides some other loot from the event. Another good way to make gold is the istan farm in Living world Season 4 episode 1 from pof if you unlocked it.

Otherwise gear is only have the job. The other and harder part is your class and your playstyle. What class are you using? What is your playstyle? Based on that we could also give you some advise on what might be good on it/suit your style^^.

July 4, 2018

@Rednik.3809 said:
@Feanor.2358 said:
@"InkTide.1908" said:According to everyone I've seen speak about the issue, the raid population is hemorrhaging players at a rate it can't replace them. Content that's being played by fewer and fewer people is not the kind of content you put
more
resources into, if other content reaches more players.

See, I don't have any data on the raid population except my own experience pugging. Which I've been doing again lately, for one reason or another. And here's the thing - I don't see that decline you speak of. There are always plenty of players looking to raid and groups fill up quickly. And that's despite the existence of "raid LFG" discord communities used by many people to more conveniently find groups or desired roles for their group. Which would naturally pull some players away from the more limited in-game LFG. But groups on it fill quickly regardless.

Like it or not, this kind of content has been a success. We've been told as much by devs directly. The merger of the teams isn't really surprising - they're doing the same type of content anyway. It's all team-based instances, the difference in size is irrelevant. It also makes sense to prioritize fractals over raids, however for entirely different reason - raids take much longer to get their content exhausted because they're generally much harder. Like I said in another thread, my guild team only recently scored their first Dhuum kill. Compare this to Deepstone, which gets exhausted after a couple of playthroughs. You know all the mechanics, there's zero chance to fail anything, it's just farm. Most raid bosses never even reach this stage of routine for the majority of groups. Plus, there's the issue with raid releases progressively increasing the time a team needs to do their full weekly clear. An issue which does not exist with fractals, due to their daily rotation system. So yeah. It's only normal raids are released less frequently.

Anet have all the statistics, and if moving raid development team to the fractal duty and one raid wing release per year is not clear enough sign for you, then idk what else is needed.

A statement which can be turned around easily. You can also say they merged both teams together sicne they helped out each others often already, so to improve workprogress they merged both team for better coordination so both get their content faster. Instead of wild guessing maybe stay to facts:Anet is the only one who has actual numbers and knows if a mode is succesful or not.

So let this thread die already. They have stated there wont be a change, and just cause some players in the forum cant let it die they will not start to change that. Like others said, you can see more groups in the lfg on a daily basis then in most other lfg parts unless there is a metaevent, then they get up to the same scale. Does this mean raids are more played then open world? Dont know, ask anet. But dont sell what you believe as facts.

I would love if they bring a fractallikesystem to raids, making a easy mode as t1, the actual mode as t2 and cms (though bosses who didnt have a cm yet would need them) as t3, making the loot automaticly earned from lower tiers if you do t3 directly. JKust like fracs. But they wont.

June 8, 2018

I always read “arguments“ thats it wrong to lock exclusive skins/loot behind a content (mostly against raids), that it should be for everyone....yet each time i read that argument it just hurts. How many freaking exclusive skins ARE in open world pve? In achievments of the story? At heartsellers? You have aurora behind a whole freaking lw season which forces me to play open world content for weeks, yet you only demand that your favorite mode should get an alternative option? If you trully come on demand that there should be no exclusive loot behind content, welp then you should be prepared that then pvp, pve, raid(since some think this isnt pve lel), wvw should get a possibility to trade in tokens for everything. If you now come and go against the idea that i can get all mats for a legy weapon or a spicific lw skin if i just trade in enough raidtokens, then it only proofs one thing: this isnt about fairness for all to have an alternative option to not do content they dont like, but rather its about you being just to lazy/egoistic.Want fair and alternative ways? Well, ok, then really for all modes or none.Its good that each content has its own, locked loot, otherwise many wouldnt do x mode.

June 3, 2018

100% agree but it doesn't always run off the elitism, as mentioned much earlier in this thread.
The other day I had joined a "chill run" listed just like that and there were two holosmiths in this run. One of them was running Rifle and the other Sword/Shield. the Sword/Shield Holo decided to take it upon himself to explain the meta to the Rifle Holo, in broken increments over the course of the 3x T4 dailies. The Rifle Holo didn't go down once, whilst the Sword/Shield Holo had gone done so many times by the end of the 3rd T4, that it was almost worth mentioning to him that he would actually be more useful to our team if he would have ran a defensive line and ditched some DPS. The Sword/Shield holo never responded to this guy even once, yet he kept talking, as if he weren't the one being repeatedly downed in situations where you don't even need sustain, like against the Ettin & Char Shaman boss in Uncatagorized. We decided to run recs with each other after the T4s, and that Holo just kept talking about meta until finally some other person said: "Just stop." And he did stop, it wasn't a problem in the end and this was a not run where anyone was vote kicked, but it was still a ridiculous situation where someone was deluded enough to attempt to preach to another player about the meta, when that player was clearly a better player and more important to the fractal's success than he was. <- It's this type of delusional inability to recognize when the elite player is the problem, and that a custom build and its player are doing well, that makes gamer elitism such an ill-flavored meme.
I'll say it again, there isn't anything wrong with elitism, it has its real and important functions concerning leadership and example set, within any community. There is also a correct time & place for elitism when it matters, and bad timing for elitism when all it is doing is stirring up toxicity and making matters more complex than they need to be. An example of good elitism in pvp, in contrast to all of this pve discussion, is when I am forming an AT team meant to compete in the monthly later that month. I need to be rigid in my choices of players accepted for many reasons if we want a chance to seriously win a monthly AT. In this situation WE ALL will be rigid with our criticism towards each other and what could be done better. An example of bad elitism in pvp would be getting 5 guys around from a guild list, to complete some guild missions, who have absolutely no interest in playing pvp even semi seriously. I was lucky to get this 5 people to participate to begin with and although it is a good idea to suggest to them that they should read up on metabattle.com if they wanted to take the time to learn more about pvp builds, it is a bad idea to get critical and push it in this given situation, unless they also want to take it there.
It all amounts down to properly labeling and joining runs, that reflect your own gaming expectations. I expect elitist attitude while joining a run labeled as such, but I do not expect elitist attitudes when joining a "chill run" or even a non-labeled run, which usually just have completely random team comps. A lot of players have posted in here, saying that it is the non-meta user's faults for not properly labeling their LFGs that "it is a chill run", but those type of players should also be labeling their LFGs as "META only". Seeing as how this entire debacle is centered around the idea of running meta or not, it is safe to say that players who see any LFG listing that doesn't mention "META only", will assume that if they are a good player, regardless of spec, they are welcome in that group.
Inspired by a different thread about the difference between Druids and Healers, this is what I think the different appropriate LFG listings in fractals should look like:
T4 Dailies Practice/Training/Learning - This is an honest listing for a player who is approaching T4s for the first time or because he knows he just isn't up to par. Rather than trying to sneak into more experienced groups for a carry, he should properly label this LFG so that other players who are learning may join, and so veteran players who are actually willing to be patient with them, can see this and know this is a group who is actually asking for a veteran elitist to join, to tell them what they are doing wrong. I often opt to join groups like this, simply to help out. I don't mind taking the extra 15 minutes of my day to explain mechanics to newer players.
T4 Dailies Chill Run - These people don't want lessons in how to run the fractals or what is wrong with their builds. They just want other players who are non-discriminatory, to join with no expectations of an arc dps or some specific meta subgroup.
T4 Dailies Pots & Food - This the most ambiguous listing out of the four, and where most of the problems occur that caused me to write this thread to begin with. Some players see this listing and assume that because it doesn't say "Meta only" that means it is a Chill Run. Others see this and assume the because it doesn't say "Chill Run" or "Learning" or "All Welcome", that it is a meta standard LFG. So you get guys running Power Reapers in here, arguing why they shouldn't be vote kicked by Druids and Chronos who join, who want a Weaver. This particular third category of listing is THE listing that has driven the debate in this thread for 16k views and 15 pages. It is arguable whether the chill players who joined first, have the right to stay in a group here or if Chronos and Druids have the right to kick Power Reapers. In the end, this third category will always result in the majority opinion of the party, and there isn't anything that can really change that.
T4 Dailies Meta Dru/Chr/3xDPS - These are the players looking to optimize team comps and clear times, who have correctly labeled their LFGs. They have every right to elitist attitude after doing so and should be able to vote kick whoever they want. While joining a label like this, players know they are subjecting themselves to critique and meta judgements.
After laying it all out like this, it seems to me that the problems are non-labeled LFGs and players not respecting labeled LFGs, that create the toxicity and ill repute of the gamer term "elitism." People need simply to properly label their LFGs and respect the labels of the LFGs they join.

I agree, even though i have more bad experiences with toxic casuals /s, but i know that there are also just as many toxic mrtaplayers (and lets be honest, its not only the other side who is very toxic, so pls dont point fingers at one direction).Its not like progressive mindsetting or casual mindsetting or anythimg between it is a problem, but rather the inability of others the write more then just t4, and others inability to read and respect specific lfgs. just as you said. And here it doesnt matter to which kind of playstyle anyone sees himself, cause in all of them exists more then enough players which do exactly that. Partly cause they dont know better, partly cause they dont care. :/But this was always a problem, even in other games.And i doubt that this illnes will disapper, so my advice to everyone: just put on a thicker skin, let black sheeps talk and go on, live is to short to waste it by going on and on what some random players behind a screen which you will only play once with did/said to you. So just see that you make a decent lfg, and if a troll joins kick him or block him. But dont blame thousands for sth that ~5-10% of those do.

May 27, 2018

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Vinceman.4572 Oh really? At what exact point does something become off meta?

In theory if you swap something out which leads no longer to the best possible result. However, since we have so many “meta-builds“ right now, what skills you should bring in a meta-group highly depends on the classes and builds in your group and the encounter.

Though i find this discussion rather pointless, instead of pointing fingers at those which rather enjoy metagroups, the main problem is once again that people (and yeah also metaplayers, its a commen sickness in this game) are to lazy/stupid to make proper lfgs or read them, and that fractalgroups also need a partyleaderfunction.

Nobody has the right to say how someone has to play( for meta, semimeta, off-meta or whatever someone calls his style^^). But also noone has the right to say who i have to play with. If i rather enjoy a full meta group and i join/create such a group (and in theory kick all non-meta builds), well then people have to accept it. Such as i have to accept that a t4 chilled run group is not a meta group and that i shouldbe kicked if i start flaming in there.

Are there good off-meta builds? Of course, many even were once meta before they got nerfed or further developed. I dont even have a problem with them in my meta-group, as long as i have a support-chrono in the group and dps-players dont fight with the chrono about their dps-position (~4k).

You will always have black sheeps though, but just as there are “toxic elitistic metaplayers“, there are also “toxic stubborn casuals“ who join our proper listed lfg which was looking for a support chrono, he joins in as a gs wielding core mesmer with no boons or dps at all (we started the frac instead of waiting until we were full) and kicked him after the first boss where we carried him through after he ignored our request that he should pls play what we were looking for or leave, resulting in multiple whispers to us what he thinks about us.

March 29, 2018

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@"Xantaria.8726" said:My group hardly ever runs optimal, and i know a lot of groups and joined a lot of pugs who dont do it. And if you join one where they want to run optimal and you dont like it, you can always leave. But noone has the right to tell others how they play, that goes to both sides. But almost any complain i read in forums, reddit and ingame is about how others cant join x group cause x group demands y and player z dont want to play y, but g, and had to leave because of that.

Which only confirms what I said - community creates additional gates to raiding. No matter if it's self oriented "I want to raid as nomad warrior" or "Escort 454654654 LI, ping gear or kick".

This is not a "gate". Then you could say every guild with requieremts, every fractal lfg which states something else then "t4" would be a gate. Its a simple thing, you want to get into raids? Then start with traingsruns or make your own. The community IS making enough so people have a chance to get easier into raids, but they are players themself... they dont have much time either, and they want to do other stuff then playing a trainersimultaor. If you want to get into raids, then get in with traingsruns.

March 29, 2018

My group hardly ever runs optimal, and i know a lot of groups and joined a lot of pugs who dont do it. And if you join one where they want to run optimal and you dont like it, you can always leave. But noone has the right to tell others how they play, that goes to both sides. But almost any complain i read in forums, reddit and ingame is about how others cant join x group cause x group demands y and player z dont want to play y, but g, and had to leave because of that.

March 29, 2018

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@Xantaria.8726 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@Henry.5713 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@Feanor.2358 said:
@belognom.3685 said:
@Feanor.2358 said:
All these you can learn in other instanced content the game features - the Fractals of the Mists. The actual mechanics you can't learn from a relaxed version, just like you can't learn how to play CM fractals from playing their normal-mode counterparts. The pressure is much different so you need to practice on the real thing.

I'm doing Fractals, rarely doing 4 tho but i have done them, mostly t3s. See it's not planning I juts go with pugs from lfg. Now how is that gonna help me to get a raid done? Fractals mech are different from what i see on raid bosses on tube videos. General dodging? Alright, I think I can manage that.I wanna see the content, simle and I can't. Tho my toon is geared in ascended (wvw and raid) and has a good arsenal of ascended wepons.

But the game offered no progression whatsoever. Than content is close to me and that isn't nice. I done everything on my part, that i had to do, how I can go do raids?

P.S. I would like to state this again. I'm not asking for one shot bosses. Maybe less damage, perhaps 80% -85% of current one, so pugs won't be walking away from raids.

I'm in biggest guild 2k members only 2-3 person i know do raiding, rest are avoiding it as plague. Simply none has time for preparation and planning and dedicated time to go into raids for 4 hours.

That's like asking "why are dungeons 5-man, I want to see the content solo". Because that's was the original idea. The game gives exactly the same requirement for anyone. If you're not doing the content, seek the problem in yourself, not the game.

You need to take into consideration that biggest gate for raiding is its "community" :)

Game puts requirement in terms of content mechanics and timer however it's the "community" that stricts the content beyond proportions.

The community is truely an issue here. Don't forget about those who actually gate themselves from raids by not even trying them once or by completely refusing to listen to the many helpful voices I see on a regular basis. It is indeed so much easier to just blame everyone but yourself for your problems.

I think we can agree both sides of the coin are to blame here.

Hardly imo.

That's not the point. The point is that while some players are indeed lazy and unwilling to cooperate, there are also many raid snobs who create artificial gates for raiding even though game mechanics never require the group to be 100% optimal.

Then just dont join those groups. Make your own LFG. Create your own static. By the amount of players complaining about those who want to runs optimal setups i think i could have create ~20 statics by now. The problem again is those who dont accept the playstyle of others, while demanding to accept their own.

March 29, 2018

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@Henry.5713 said:
@"Kheldorn.5123" said:
@Feanor.2358 said:
@belognom.3685 said:
@Feanor.2358 said:
All these you can learn in other instanced content the game features - the Fractals of the Mists. The actual mechanics you can't learn from a relaxed version, just like you can't learn how to play CM fractals from playing their normal-mode counterparts. The pressure is much different so you need to practice on the real thing.