[What makes GW2 combat in WvW fun? (and how I feel recent changes go in the wrong direction)]

I admittedly did not read through this entire thread besides the OP and a couple posts.

I see both sides of the issue in regards to target caps. I tend to agree with the people saying the servers probably can't handle all the additional computations from removing caps. In any case, I think the elephant in the room which people rarely speak about in-game is the minstrel stat-line.

Comparing old WvW to Today

Stability - 2 guardians coordinating
Today - minstrel npc playing piano

Cleansing - 3 or 4 party members coordinating
Today -  minstrel npc playing piano

Healing - Entire parting coordinating regroups and water blasts
Today - minstrel npc playing piano

DPS - Entire party's responsibility
Today - 1 or 2 DPS free casting while you guessed it, being pushed around in a baby carriage by minstrel npcs

The game has been dumbed down to the dirt. And this is not about me hating support; I was a monk main in GW1. But GW2 and its UI simply weren't designed with healers/support in mind and it shows. There's a reason minstrel doesn't exist in SPvP. No one wants to run to a capture point and deal with a bunker stalling the match for its entirety (boring). WvW has this problem scaled up. Some groups are running 4 supports to a party now, I mean, come on.

I'd like ANET to experiment and run a weekend event with minstrel removed, concentration/expertise removed from celestial, and see where the meta shakes up. Will it be better or worse? I don't know but it would be something DIFFERENT. The meta has been stale for so long and the worst thing I can say about WvW in its current state is that the combat has become boring and predictable vs. GvG comps, organized comps, pug comps... everything. They all feel exactly the same to fight against with the only difference being who wkeys on tag more effectively. Another interesting experiment would be giving players their own defiance bar for a weekend and see how it plays.

This of course requires developer resources which ANET seems unwilling to allocate, so I know I'm just a boomer WvW'er yelling at the clouds. The point being, there are other avenues to improve the game that don't involve completely dumbing down the combat system. But we've had a minstrel meta for so long with the playerbase conditioned to play this way (and the devs too apparently), I feel it's a lost cause at this point. Just play another game to scratch that competitive itch.

[Elementalists need to get nerfed.]

1 hour ago, Codename T.2847 said:

Ok being serious here for a second, the 2 skills you mentioned have pretty obvious tells when you fight a tempest or a Reaper that runs them in a vacuum. You can see the ice particles congregating around the necro's throat, and THEN does Cttb happen, and Aftershock is where you first get crippled but if you dodge right after you can avoid the immob.

These are all fine and dandy yea but in a zergfight are hard to notice indeed, at the same time tho there is only the game's visual clutter to blame for that. 

Fair enough, I agree. I wish ANET was more consistent with the clutter. A boonball will instantly cleanse the torment and reapply the boons from sandstorm shroud, yet is has a very distinct aoe warning/tell. While skills that root you and are responsible for most deaths are impossible to see.

[Elementalists need to get nerfed.]

Every class has been power crept to the moon, so I wont comment on nerfing ele specifically. However, I have an issue with tempest and aftershock.

This skill is obnoxious af; I get hit with it pretty much every engage versus a boonball. No tell, no counter-play, just immobilized. Either give aftershock the sandstorm shroud treatment where the skill has a detonation aoe circle that can be kited/dodged, or have the immobilize effect only happen in the blast radius (240) so the tempest actually has to be in melee range to land it. Being able to just play piano in a boonball and press a button with such a devastating effect is lame as hell.

Also, different class, but the same goes for reapers and chilled to the bone; it should have a detonation effect. Getting immob'd or stunned for 4 seconds next to a boonball is instant death unless you have full cd's. Give players the opportunity to dodge these skills.

[Boonball meta is bad]

2 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

So players who take time to organize cohesive groups, where everyone in the group has a role, like providing stab, heals damage, strips or other utility.  Shouldn't be rewarded for doing so? 

That's the whole issue in a nutshell with today's meta; every player has one singular role.

During core (and HoT to a certain extent), players had to consider:

- water regroups
- timed leaps and weapon swaps (melee)
- pick teams (thieves/mesmers primairly)
- awareness to float from melee to 900 range, either to avoid bombs or assist pick teams with downs, and to avoid being picked yourself (casters)
- stab rotations
- down calls / banner placement
- avoid red circles (what a concept)
- I'm sure other old-school wvw'ers can name more

Players just had more personal agency in general. My point being, GWEN comps were not perfect, but they were driven by coordinating all the tasks I mentioned above. That coordination is what drove the meta and allowed smaller groups to take on larger groups and was also the deciding factor in gvgs. If I were to just sandbag on guardian and play a singular role like firebrand today (providing stab), most fights would be lost due to lack of dps.

And having a singular role is also just flat-out boring imo. I can join ANY group running today on a firebrand, not equip weapons or any utilities besides "stand your ground," camp my courage book, and w-key on the commander while watching youtube on my other monitor. Minstrel gear and over-powered specs/traits do 99% of the work.

So no, I don't think simply being "organized" with minstrel gear and over-powered specs that perform one singular role should be the deciding factor in fights. It should be coordination and skill. Being able to stay on tag and w-key in the tankiest gear possible, with every boon, ignoring all the game mechanics, requires little-to-no skill, awareness, and the bare-minimum of coordination.

It's a pathetic shell of the what the game used to be, and the main reason why most of the old-school gvg'ers quit or just cloud these days. Or they've endured the trash meta due to friendships and guild comradery, which I totally understand.

[looking for that "you're ruining my game mode" video from core days south camp windmill gvgs]

Here ya go!

The dev got his wish - in 2023, WvW is officially a full-on EOTM simulator.  GJ ANET!

[Why 4 maps]

The Alpine maps cater more to group play, and with the dwindling population, it's difficult to find action on those maps outside of prime time. EB funnels all the skirmish activity to the center of the map, making it better suited for pugs and smaller groups. IMO, the only hope to repopulate Alpine during off-hours is if the balance patch actually fixes the trash large-scale combat and guilds/players return to the game (lel). If white knights adamantly defend Desert bl despite no one playing it, I can only imagine the tears over potentially removing Alpine; ANET will never do it.

Having said that, at this point, I wouldn't be opposed to ANET eliminating the borderlands altogether for a week-long event and having 3 instances of EB; each server can start at a different spawn in each instance (green/blue/red). At least it would shake things up for a week. I have some great memories on the Alpine maps but they feel just as dead as the pos Desert bl these days.

[Remove Tier 4]

@"Gop.8713" said:

Can't understand why ppl insist on thinking of those server population labels as fixed numbers . . .

Yup, actual activity numbers tell a different story. Seems clear to me the bottom NA tiers have started transferring to BP/JQ/Mag.