JTHMRulez.9378
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Posts posted by JTHMRulez.9378
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@Genesis.8572 said:
@JTHMRulez.9378 said:I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.Raven is associated with the Dead and the Underworld but that does not mean that Necromancy is trusted or respected by Norns. More importantly, it doesn't make Norn Necros common. Havrouns and shamans who would dedicate themselves to the Spirits or even just Raven are a relatively rare breed of norn society.There are a number of priests of Grenth (i.e., positions of social prominence) but that does not mean that humans are all snuggles with necromancy.For the record, do you play a Norn Necromancer?We have seen Norn necros, which, for me at least implies there is at least some level of acceptance for them (In general, we really don't see that many general bad views about necromancers EXCEPT in the cases where they raise minions by binding souls ala Joko, which is where the stigma really plays) And that Raven has an association with Necromancers implies there is a level of acceptance, specially if it comes from the Spirits the norn so much revere. "A Spirit of Legend" straight out says that the Shamans are embodiments of the values the Spirits teach and that they are respected as teachers by their peers. How could you be a teacher if you are not respected? Aside from that, A Spirit of Legend also bluntly states that not even in cases where there is a massive disdain against a single group (I.E Svanir) the Norn instantly refuse them, they value the individual first. Which is another point against this.
Also, there are some instances where humans are rather okay with Necromancy. Marjory Delaqua served the Ministry Guard which is mostly a position as a prestigious bodyguard and is married to a noblewoman. I couldn't find it right now but there are several dialogues in Divinity's Reach with a kid who wants to become a Necromancer when he/she grows up, and there is also this where a nobleman tries to teach Necromancy to his child https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenth_Low_Road
And no, I feel a little offended at the question but no, I play a norn warrior and another norn ranger.
@draxynnic.3719 said:
@JTHMRulez.9378 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@JTHMRulez.9378 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North:This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.Most priests of Grenth are necromancers, and humans being disturbed by necromancers has been established multiple times in the franchise. Being a priest-equivalent of the Spirit of the Wild associated with death doesn't exactly say anything about the attitude of the norn towards necromancers in general, especially since havrouns aren't exactly chosen by popular vote.And at the bottom line, the fact still remains that we don't see very many norn necromancers. Each one that's been mentioned follows the "only if there's a story reason for them to be a necromancer" rule.See above. (Besides, there was really no reason for the Raven Havroun to be a Necromancer. Since that isn't even Raven's only facet. But I get it)
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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
@JTHMRulez.9378 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@JTHMRulez.9378 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North:This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.I never denied a relation between Raven and necromancy. However, I would hardly say that the havroun of the patron spirit of the dead being a necromancer is proof that they're not seen strangely or in poor light in general. Obviously not all necromancers are "all that strange" but that doesn't affect how people view things in general.Just because someone in a position of power is associated with something related to that position of power, doesn't mean that association isn't viewed with distrust. It's a fallacious argument to claim otherwise.@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@JTHMRulez.9378 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@JTHMRulez.9378 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North:This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.I never denied a relation between Raven and necromancy. However, I would hardly say that the havroun of the patron spirit of the dead being a necromancer is proof that they're not seen strangely or in poor light in general. Obviously not all necromancers are "all that strange" but that doesn't affect how people view things in general.Just because someone in a position of power is associated with something related to that position of power, doesn't mean that association isn't viewed with distrust. It's a fallacious argument to claim otherwise.@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@JTHMRulez.9378 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:@JTHMRulez.9378 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North:This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.I never denied a relation between Raven and necromancy. However, I would hardly say that the havroun of the patron spirit of the dead being a necromancer is proof that they're not seen strangely or in poor light in general. Obviously not all necromancers are "all that strange" but that doesn't affect how people view things in general.Just because someone in a position of power is associated with something related to that position of power, doesn't mean that association isn't viewed with distrust. It's a fallacious argument to claim otherwise.Indeed, but there is an obvious correlation between positions that carry a certain prestige in a society that makes them unable to be adquired by certain individuals that don't have at least some amount of support by the population.- Havroun is probably one of the most prestigious titles there can be among people as individualistic as norn, which means that if Necromancers were so badly seen as you try to put it, it would simply be impossible.
Also, reading back Ghosts of Ascalon (aside from noticing the amount of outdated information that makes it a questionable source for canon) I also noticed that such a view is only valid with Necromancers that bind the spirits to their abominations ala Joko. Most Necromancers nowdays don't do that.- Which stands a reason why that doesn't happen anymore. Certainly if someone did it would be seen with suspicion, but it's not usual.
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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
@JTHMRulez.9378 said:@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North:This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.Raven was always a major spirit, even if Bear got more screentime in GW1. His position didn't really change over the games. It was only Snow Leopard's.And think about it, how many norn necromancers NPCs does one even see in the game? I can think of only two: Raven's havroun and the hermit near Shadow Behemoth's spawn.I think the fact that Raven's Havroun, a position of inmense power and prestigue amongst norn who follow Raven (and even those who don't) is enough indicator that there is a strong association with Raven and Necromancy, as well as to say that Necromancers aren't all that strange or badly seen. Much less to the point of being so distrusted.
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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:
As for norn disliking necormancy, this largely comes from one quest in Eye of the North: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen This shows that the norn actually have a bit of a distaste for necromancers that use the corpses of others for their own gain. Probably a whole "spitting in the face of another's legend" or the like.
That quest is hardly valid right now, however, as one of the big plot points for norn is that their culture has slightly changed thanks to what happened in the Far Shiverpeaks with Jormag. Before that, Bear was the main and most revered Spirit of the Wild. However after the actions taken by the rest of the Spirits they took a seat of precedence alongside Bear. It is undoubtfully that Necromancy may be seen as "creepy" but that doesn't mean Norn dislike it.
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@draxynnic.3719 said:Norn:
The norn focus on personal excellence through hunting and physical combat make rangers and warriors some of the most common professions. Revenants may also become increasingly popular: the norn reverence towards legend would make them a good fit, and unlike humans, they're likely to care little about whether the legend they channel was a hero or a villain, and their good relations with the charr mean that revenants are possibly more likely to filter through into norn society than into other races (but again, AFAIK we've had no indication that this is happening). Like humans, necromancers appear to be distrusted, but their connection to Raven means that they are present. Other professions seem to come up due to connections with the spirits: guardians with Wolf and possibly Bear, thieves and mesmers with Raven and Snow Leopard. Engineers are probably fairly rare: they certainly DO exist, but the norn as a while tend to prefer less technological approaches. Elementalists are hard to pick (outside of Svanirites, obviously) - we don't see them very often, however, and given that the norn don't seem to have any animal spirits associated with the elements directly and elemental spirits were (according to Egil Fireteller) generally regarded as enemies rather than friends, they're probably not all that common.
Summary:Common: Ranger, warrior.Uncommon: Guardian, mesmer, revenant, thief.Rare: Elementalist, engineer, necromancer.
I don't agree with this list at all.- Necromancers are, by no means, distrusted in any of the races. They use dark magic, but that doesn't mean that magic is bad.- I mean, look, the biggest goody-two-shoes in the game was a Necro (Traeharne, RIP) and one of the Primeval Queens was also a Necro.- But going back to the norn topic:Elementalist and Necromancers are by no means rare. They enter under Raven's view and Raven is one of the four main Spirits of the Wild, Raven is known for its connection with the dead so Necromancers are natural followers and he is also known for his scholary tendencies so Elementalists aren't supossed to be rare either.
I would argue that, if we wanted to go for rare (Or better said, not stereotypical) professions, then those would be thief, mesmer and engineer, but even then I would be mostly wrong because thieves fall under Snow Leopard (another major spirit)
Which professions go best thematically with which races?
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That's a bad example because we would never see a Neonazi as a Governor, for example.
Except it is. It's literally what it is.- A group that is not accepted by the bulk of society, for whatever reason, could never hope to get any kind of representation no matter their numbers or even importance unless they straight out force themselves above their peers.
Besides once more this "distrust" to necromancer, which comes from a nobel that is so contradicted by current canon that it may as well not be canonical. Where is this wide distrust of necromaners when the Pact Marshal was one, or when a Ministry Guard was one? Even then, again, in Ghost of Ascalon it is strictly the act of binding souls of actual people to their undead bodies. Modern Necromancers now use their flesh contructs.