Yugz.6925

You are absolutely right about that I have to say.I think that indeed, roaming can be enjoyed, but not by using the classes the way they are actually enjoyable to play. It is not really about roaming being dead then, it is about the combat system being turned dumber and dumber since HoT. It makes me feel like roaming isn't fun anymore, but as we saw, it is not the case for everyone. Why isn't it the case for other players ? I think that you just pointed it out in your comment : people do not want to learn their classes anymore. Killing someone on DE is far easier than it is using a non-abusive spec. But is it really the player's fault trying to play the easier way they can find out ? I tend to say that, no, it absolutely isn't. It is Anet's fault for letting such things happening. Obviously it is easier to say "hate the rules, not the players" but that absolutely is the case. I think that Anet got the problem and to be fair, I was highly hyped about the new patch, but has it really changed anything ? I don't think it did. What I want to point out (despite the whole stealthing stuff) is that for the game to be exciting again, we need proper balance and real changes in how people are "rewarded" as they use some build. The whole full glassy stuff needs to get the fuck away so we can actually have fights that make us want to get better rather than being a frustrate or get frustrated kind of combat. The real thing about it also is that I am an highly experienced player, and I can't begin to imagine the pain that new (or just nonPvPers) players experience going in WvW. We need to give them the ability to have fights that last for more than seconds, so they can use spells and enjoy the wonderful combat system GW2 once had to offer. Is it only about scaling down numbers ? No, it's also about how specs and classes are designed. We need major changes so that the game can be enjoyable from both sides of fights. Nobody enjoys encountering a Thief and that's just as a problem as it is not fun anymore to play it. I'll try to slightly develop it but I think you did that greatly : the whole Deadeye thing is to be a "ranged assassin". Don't want to blame anyone but at first, doesn't this seem like an absolute nightmare in a way that this makes interactions between players already terribly hard to balance ? Anet truly needs to think about these things rather than listening to people wanting a role-playing spec "oh i wanna be a sniper" : this is the absolute dumbest spec they could have ever designed for a classe such as a thief. I am not going too far on this since this is not a the thief class forum, but I just wanted to give you an overview of what's not going good in the design they did to that class without even mentioning balance. Hope you guys have more to add and feel free to respond to my post so we can continue the debate.

Same, because its just as objectively false. I could say that dungeons are dead and yeah, they obviously made it a way so you don't need team coordination and all to be effective anymore.The difference is that they designed new content for the new balance of the game. Raid and fractals, which did not happen in WvW.It is not just that I don't like it anymore, it is that it objectively turned to something way less "new players friendly" too. The huge powercreep leads to people not being able to start playing the gamemode, because getting your friends into a gamemode where they get oneshotted if they don't dodge some single spell and all does not make them want to keep playing it and even more than that, it does not give people the opportunity to learn and master the gameplay of their characters.

Many people roam. Many find it playable. Hence it is still a thing. Being still playable does not mean that it is either rewarding or fun. Dungeons still are playable too, but are they either rewarding or fun ? I doubt that. But that's just another topic.What I am trying to point out is the way that Anet just did not care about WvW well being for the past four years, and what the last balance patch has shown us is that the gamemode is completely fucked. They need to re-adapt the specs and mostly stats to a point where it is actually enjoyable to play. If anybody at Anet reads that, I truly hope that they will finally get that the current state of the game is nowhere close from being either skilled or fun in open field PvP.

Just open your Eternal Battleground map and you at the spots where there aren't any sentries/towers.Anyway, people flee from fights using mounts dragging people on sentries so... I can also play S/D Thief. And well how it is experienced from the other side ? "Spam dodge cancer thief" and trust me, I get it. The game is just not fun anymore, the specs are fucked up, the powercreep is still insanely high and I don't see any way they can fix it. It has gone too far. I guess I'm just done here, the community is uncomprehensive, really, I feel like people don't quite get the game the way I do (and the way most decent players did (but sadly they all quit)). It is people that can't play it properly that are glad it is fucked up, so they can kill people and enjoy their one button dopamine.I really mean it. I asked in some previous post few mounths ago what people are looking for in the WvW gamemode, and most of the answer were "exclusive skins" or "rewards". I don't quite get it anymore, I guess the game stopped being designed for people that actually enjoyed the combat system.

I encourage you to read my post-scriptum : " I see you coming "learn to play before complaining", well, know that I've been plat3 (1700 rating average) in sPvP every single season I played and I have more than 4k hours on Thief. "Being a top 200- player every season makes me believe that I know what I'm doing when I play my class, and I do not need a "go get skilled" speech. As I told you again, the way you see thief being just a stealth ganker/disengager is the whole point that I'm trying to point out in this post : classes have become retarded, the gameplay has been so oriented into burst and disengage that most of the gameplay has just turned into garbage. I roamed as well for the past week. And it is still playable. Is it still interessant though ? I don't really think so.What I mean is that the gamemode no longer uses our great combat system and instead focuses on insane bursts on very short windows, making the fights kinda burst or run. Glad to know that. Well this is the problem too. I mean, cloak and dagger for instance stealthes you for three seconds, and you get a 3 sec revealed buff before the stealth ends. I mean, this is truly dumb, and it does not prevent from deadeye or dagger pistol thieves to perma stealth if they get the sentries.This is a terrible way of fixing things, and I'm absolutly scandalized that they did it that way.

A shit ton of problems are up in roaming, even though the big patch appeared, the powercreep is still sooooo high.More than that, the issues about perma stealth and all have been "fixed" by using sentinels, which now delete all stealth, even 3 sec ones, revealing you in so you can't stealth anymore.I've been a huge fan of thief and due to other player abusing stealth I just can't play anymore, even if my way of getting stealth stands from using cloak and dagger (which is already not a rewarding spell), I get insta-revealed.The game has truly gone dumb for the past few years, and I don't see a way for them to come back. It may appear at first to be a whiny post, but it really isn't.I am not complaining about a situation I recently witnessed. I am complaining about the path the game decided to take. I think that the gamemode is just dead and can only be enjoyed by being part of a zerg (mounts did not help at all). Open world pvp was just the best GW2 feature to me, and to a lot of other players by the way, and it is just not a thing anymore. Burst or get bursted, not my jam, and not anyone that has decent expectations for a game jam. I have been posting for the past years ways for the game to be more "balanced" in WvW, more enjoyable, and I am done with it. As long as we will stick to PvE stats, runes, sigils, to pointless mounts, to overpowered specs such as deadeye which is absolute cancer in this gamemode since it is only about opening a fight and disengaging, to pewpew rangers and to all that crap we won't ever have an enjoyable gamemode. Think about it. Let me give you an exemple on how Anet balances stuff : why do that many classes have now a spell which reveals ? It wasn't the case few years ago ... The reason obviously is to counter permastealth and constant disengage from thieves. Instead of balancing this cancerous spec (deadeye and shadow arts), they gave a spell to destroy every single aspect of thieves to certain classes. What does it leads to ? Well actually, classes that can destroy thieves if they target it before they do, and other ones that just can't do anything about it.So they added reveal on sentinels, and instead of making it so it reveals people that have been in stealth for the past 4 seconds or so, they make it happen randomly, so you can get revealed after landing a cloak and dagger, not even abusing the overpowered specs.Conclusion ? Thieves are forced to play retarded specs, other classes have to play retarded spells to counter them, nobody has fun but hey, at least Anet "tried" to fix things. It is really a shame that such a good game turned so bad, and I truly mean it. I'll leave it to you linking some old footage of GW2 roaming, so you can compare to new ones that are just "explosive montage and how to oneshot people by spamming your cancerous spells". I'd love to see what are your thoughts about it, and I truly believe that I'm not the only folk (maybe the only folk left) that can remember when WvW was still a fun gamemode (seriously I don't even bring my friend to WvW so they don't quit the game). PS : I see you coming "learn to play before complaining", well, know that I've been plat3 (1700 rating average) in sPvP every single season I played and I have more than 4k hours on Thief. Not trying to brag about anything, but don't give me the "you have to learn" talk. Thanks

Hi! I actually wonder if it is possible but would you guys like to see a downgrade of the average powercreep/sustain of classes through making WvW a bit more sPvP balanced (not especially wirh amulets but more with reducing the amount of stats given by armor and also giving the sigil/runes that sPvP has).I think that this would be a great idea, not only for making things more balanced and funnier to play, but also get a really "competitive gamemode".I don't really know if this is doable but also we could have a week test, as the no downstate week, to give us an idea about how it would impact the gamemode.

Camon guys don't make Ben regret bringing this 15v15 map to the table ahahI think that the map is was just designed to add something to pvp, it seems like it is not going to be an entire gamemode but just a map.Which is already awesome, because we'll be able to have 15v15 GvGs with PvP balance. However I don't think that this will be real mode, just a map that allows that many ppl.

Hello everyone, today I want to discuss about what is seducing, to you guys, about WvW.In my own post, I'll try to relate about my friends experiences as well (which I have been introducing to the game for the past six years). I also apologize about my english (I'm currently posting on my phone and it is not forgiving, trust me ahah). My first experience of WvW was back in the days where what we used to call "green arrows" (which were under lv80 players) were a dominant part of the population of the gamemode. Therefore, you can imagine how "unbalanced" it was (mainly due to the power difference between players). However, we all enjoyed the game, and I seriously doubt that the game mode is not as balanced as it was at that time in these scenarios.So what's seducing about the gamemode, what changed and how to fix it in 2020.The first experience in the gamemode can either be nice or terrible.As I said I introduced friends to the game many times and when we first went to WvW, it often resulted in trying to join a zerg, just to get oneshotted in the first fights due to huge powercreep and unforgiveness in large organized fights if not oneshotted before by full glass roamers.But sometimes, we managed to have some unorganized small scale fights which were far more enjoyable for everyone, my friends did not get massive fps drops, we could interact, play together, and have overall way more interaction and immersion in the game. When that happened, every single one told me "that's the most fun I've ever had to the game and now I realize what's so special about it". And I think that this is key to the first experience in WvW, smaller, more forgiving fights, like defending a camp, or a tower with friends against people that do not oneshot you within a second. (i'm talking about the new player's perspective since I have been an heavy roamer and constant top100 pvp in EUW as a Thief (not saying that to brag but to say that this is not whinning "pewpew broken" or anything)).So yeah that is thing that we kinda lost in the gamemode, and even more when the mount came up, we do lack of fun and interaction apart from big scale fights.Now, I know that a lot of us also got seduced about large scale fights (so more than 35 ppl in each side (considering that 35 is still low)). I think that back in the days where we needed to buff might more often and more precisely was a lot funnier, same for water blasting, a lot of interaction inside the same team was necessary and we kinda lost that with all the "passive" management of boons.What could also be refreshing is adding new ways to interact, between players by giving unplayed classes in large scale (so everyone but necro guard and rev actually ahah) useful spells.A good example of that is obviously mesmer which has been used for the stealth veil in the past. It is an unique and yet very simple spell, that makes the whole zerg interact together, and obviously makes the game more fun to play. It also gives an undeniable utility to mesmer (besides the chronomancer atm) that allows people that like mesmers able to perform and help in these fights.Add to that reducing the powercreep to be more "sPvP scaled" and I seriously think that we can make WvW great again, not only for us veterans, but also for people that aren't familiar with the game. And for you what seduced you at the first place about the gamemode and what do you think should be its evolution ?

Great initiative, WvW is one of the best gamemodes a MMORPG ever had and it needs changes in its meta and balance is the way to go.I overall agree with these changes, I would also like to see more balance updates about WvW, and a bit part of that is balancing sigils and runes. This is very important because it is the real main reason to why the gamemode is at the moment a big mess. Purification sigils (3 condi clear on weapon swap) for example is truly overpowered for a PvP gamemode. I still believe that this game/gamemode can be great again and there are many people that would join the GW2 adventure because of its massive "open world" pvp. I wanted to end this comment with a few words about roaming. It is such a great way to play the game and is nowaday very hard to do so. I think that there are stuff to do about this.Anyway, that's really a good thing that you do balance the WvW again.

GW2 community is absolutly nowhere close to WoW classic community. WoW classic, is a slow game, very close to IRL roleplay games. GW2 community just cries when they can't get something easily, that just won't be the case on Classic WoW. More than that, the whole roleplay aspect is essential to fully enjoy the game, the GW2 community is faaaar from that and they just won't enjoy the game. The hype about classic is real but it won't last. When people are going to realise what the game is about they will simply leave it. However, there will be players that actually enjoy the immersion of the game and the whole roleplay aspect of it. These will be the players that stay on the game, not GW2 instantdopamine players.

"Some people really like one-shotting people. Just because some people don't isn't really relevant." Yes it is, because oneshotting, even though it can give you the dopamine rush you're looking for, reduces the gameplay time and complexity of both player."And as for the the comments around not needing to nerf conditions. I would rather see all DoTs deleted from the game than the one shots from rev and ranger." You can't get rid of all condis, that's just a core mechanic to the game. The thing that we actually claim is that condi aren't as problematic as DPS because they are only few condi burst builds. If power gets nerfed, so should condition, but not for the same reasons. "Fun is subjective." Yes it is, but complexity isn't. And complexity in a game develops the player in many interessant ways. Pressing a single button however isn't making GW2 a dopamin supplier. Depends on what you're looking for in a game, yes indeed, but MMOs aren't usually that type of game.

"Dps builds will cap out on damage, and why not supplement it with a little sustain right?Support builds will cap out on healing and boon duration, why not add some damage right?Can you spot the difference? There is none since this forces a meta of 50/50 dps and sustain which only some professions and builds can shine with - others will be left behind in the dust. Basically if you cap out on damage and halfway in sustain, you will always win against someone that's full damage unless they are severly lower in skill. Why would anyone do that to themselves in a competitive mode?" You're arguing like I'm willing to destroy stat efficiency past 1k5 power. It is not the case. If I was, then you would be right, classes with an hybridation potential would be way more efficient and then class balance would be fucked up. However, what I would like to change is add a stat scaling that would actually look more or less like the square root function. There would not be a cap to reach, every bit of stat would make you better in that attribute, but at some point, it could be useful to get some other statistics since they have a better theoretical efficiency. You are already admitting that the changes would be done in a unbalanced way. "Everyone also need to keep in mind with your suggestions that a nerf in one compartment will warrant a nerf in another. We half the crit value? Then we must half condition duration." This is just not true. People are complaining about insane bursts, not about damage over time. Condition duration is not such a problem since it can be countered by being able to dispell those conditions."Everyone also need to keep in mind with your suggestions that a nerf in one compartment will warrant a nerf in another. We half the crit value? Then we must half condition duration. We cap a max power value at 1560? Then we need to cap a max healing value at 560. Innate healthpools will be more relevant than ever in the meta since it's now free sustain, whatever imbalances there are between professions today would be way more noticable once we remove stat diversity." Why would we cap power value at 1560 ? There would be absolutly no power cap, otherwise the game would absolutly be unbalanced since classes that have access to might and DPS buffers would be absolutly broken. What I was thinking of would be that stat efficiency in power would be a 1 ration from 1k to 2k, 0.8 from 2k to 2k5, 0.6 from 2k5 to 3k and 0.4 for 3k and more. Here I took the example of a discontinuous function for readability, but it is obviously a continuous function that would be the most interesting. These are random ratios, I haven't really taken time to really think about this in depth and the decrease on efficiency might actually be too hard, but I'm pretty sure that balance devs could actually design something really nice there. Because I truly believe that this isn't that hard to adjust properly.One problem that would appear though is stats added by might stacks. This is why I would also suggest a redesign of this buff : making them add % damage somehow would be way more interesting. Because buffing a player to 750 condition damage+power would then be too efficient for full tank builds, and not efficient enough on damage based players.You are actually saying that this would remove stat diversity, on the contrary. The goal there is to reward people for not getting a gear with a set full of the same stats. Of course, full zerker people would still hit way more than players that would use some toughness and all in their power based build, but it would just be less efficient than it is now. "You're not asking for slight DR, you're asking for a completely different game that would require a full overhaul of every profession and gamemodes (conquest would not work f.ex), it is the only way anyone would be able to do anything. If you truly believe facing anyone with both of you in celestial gear gives you a better winning chance, then I get your sentiment. But the gw2 I play is all about cooldowns, timing, reflexes and forward thinking, and the only gear choices I need to worry about are full support or full dps, the rest is arbitrary because the game values player skill over raw numbers - and I'd like to keep it that way since it's why I enjoy playing it." I sadly feel like you have not really grasped the real purpose of this modification, and I actually believe that you could agree with me. Actually conquest, as you mentionned has a pure stat capping feature : amulets. You might have seen that but the amount of stats you're getting in conquest is way lower than in WvW. This results in having less burst capacity for most classes. The game-mode is actually more enjoyed than WvW "by skilled players" because it's more balanced. But there is something in sPvP that is nowhere close to what WvW offers : having the possibility to theorycraft and mix stats from your gear, which we don't do anymore in WvW.To illustrate what I am saying I just want to link some youtube videos that I have been recently watching. These videos are roaming videos but I think that this feature could also impact deeply zerging (as a matter of fact reducing full healing power builds would reward blasting in water fiels, which actually was a way more interesting, skilled and fun mechanic in zergs). There is a video of Vaanss, this is a recent video on the berserker elite spec, he's a very good player and we can actually see the current state of roaming, with enormous burst builds such as full damage berserker. Just take a look at the first fight, I truly don't believe that it's fun for anyone to get oneshotted by a single spell. The counterplay there is possible, "you just have to evade it", but well if you don't evade it, your fight is ended. How enjoyable is that ?There is a video of Hollts, he's also a very good player and uses the reaper elite spec at its full potential. What I sadly see in this video is that ennemy players can't tank a shroud 4 spell, and he either tank any income of damage : that results who is bursting first. That being said, it's a wonderful video and it feels very good to see modern roaming make such ones.Finally I am linking you an old video, back when the classes couldn't burst that much at all. Even though I'm actually comparing condition damage based build to full burst builds, we can see that he does not get fully bursted in less than a sec.To summerize, I think that adding passiv invulns such as the acrobatic 50% health invuln on thief is not the way to go. It actually reduces skill required to play it, and most fun in playing with or against the class. Instead of that, reducing the bursting capacity would be way more interesting. But reducing the burst capacity isn't all, because then you wouldn't be able to kill classes with more sustain. That's why you need to balance the game properly. But at its current state anyway, I don't think that anyone can say that WvW is balanced.

"No crit damage week, find out if vulnerability and conditions can beat the full tank builds without Power builds needing added cushions."This is indeed a very good idea. I think experimenting on balance using the "week" system could be very effective. More than experimenting, this could actually createenthusiasm for WvW from the whole community. A good way to introduce more people in the game-mode.

"If you cap damage everyone will be tankier? Pretty straightforward logic.What you are arguing for here is a simple increase in base armor for everyone, as capping defensive stats do absolutely nothing for a dps matchup like I've already explained." This is nowhere close to what I argue for. What I am arguing for is to make stats less efficient when you just reach some threshold. That can either be power, condition damage, toughness, healing power ... In a DPS matchup like you said, this would result in rewarding getting some defensive stats. This would then make everyone tankier in a DPS vs DPS matchup, yes indeed. Why is that a good thing you may ask, well, it would make DPS vs DPS fights longer, so people really can use their game knowledge and skill to kill an ennemy. Let's take the example of either deadeye or soulbeast, because that might be what people are actually mad about in WvW. As good as you can be, if you get engaged by one of those classes, you might die in the blink of an eye, that's a fact. So these classes are kinda "cheated" in WvW. However, what if the classes wouldn't oneshot you ? Well the duel would be way more interesting, since these classes aren't as cheated as they appear : they lack of defensive spells. Making them not able to oneshot you make them drastically more balanced. But also more fun to play against. On the deadeye/soulbeast side, well they wouldn't be able to oneshot people from 1k5 range, but they would also be a bit tankier, and the ennemy damages would actually be slightly lower (since they're running a DPS build). So even tho they get CCed for a second, they may not die. Then the deadeye could use his stealth to create distance, the soulbeast could kite away and all. The game would be way more complex and fun, because you could counterplay these classes.What about a tank versus tank matchup ? Well they would be able to kill each other, since their damages would be higher and they would also be less tanky."Expecting the rest of us who already adapt to the game to be nerfed just because you refuse to, isn't helping you here. If you want a game with higher ttk, where gear matters just as much or more than skill and all classes feel the same - then gw2 will disappoint, simple as that." This kinda makes me laugh actually. You're talking to me like I just am a whinning guy in the forum craving for my class to get buffed. This is not the case. As I told you I am "adapted to the game" since I am an highly ranked PvP player. It's not about making gear mattering more than skill and class, it's about being able to use skill and class at its full potential. "The players gearing for max dps in WvW are just as responsible for their build viability as you are in avoiding their damage. It's not unfair in any way, you can still choose to run whatever you want and however you choose." I'm not blaming anyone for going full glass or anything. I'm blaming the game for rewarding such a playstyle. I'm not even saying that this is unfair or whatever, I'm saying that there are adjustments that could be made to make to game more fun and more accessible to new players as well."Unfortunately we need to adjust to what the game is, not the other way around, meaning the chances of any of this happening are close to 0." I'm there to discuss about potential changes that may be either good or bad. By seeing posts like this ANet can and should be influenced in their balance patches. I am completly adapted to the current state of the game, but that's not a reason for denying that there is enormous issues, especially in WvW balance."For the suggestion itself, I guess that depends a lot upon where you wish to set the limit, set it too low and Celstial = the best always, otherwise you're likely going to see mostly min/max to get the most of the usual stats (power, prec, fero) with as much other stats as possible crammed in after those are maxed out." This is very true, and I'm not able to tell you at what point these thresholds must appear. But I do agree with everything you said. These changes would require a good think and balance knowledge from devs to be really good. Because the full celestial meta wouldn't be better than our current. But I think that there is room for balancing such a feature.