tiagotatico.6304
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Posts posted by tiagotatico.6304
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14 hours ago, Tinker.6924 said:
No. Just no. This will quickly become "be careful what you ask for, you might just get it" and the end result will not be good at all. If weapons are weak, buff them. If this results in ele specs overperforming, I'm sure anet will nerf something eventually but it's also possible they will leave things as is. I would rather that overperforming become the ele status quo. Maybe it's the ele turn to be that way.
what he is asking is very simple, lets say a condi ele build does 42k damage, buff the weapon and nerf utility so it still does 42k damage, but now you dont pay a heavy price when you want to swap utility, this would make cele perform much better in some roles like pylon kiter, right now the damage loss is too big, around 3k for each ultility
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what is the thought process of having at the same time fc and kaineng linked and borlis pass and sbi linked
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Basically the title, tempest was the worst offender for pistol but they did a very harsh nerf to AA, tempest barely does AA since you spend a lot of time overloading, while weaver does much more AA, as a result of that tempest got away with a slap in the wrist and only lost 2k dps compared to the beta, or even less, while weaver got hit by 5k, pistol now is one of the worse condi weapons for weaver doing around 40k with one of the hardest rotations in the game
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3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Bad assumptions ... you don't know how they arrived at that decision to make that nerf. And yes, they did nerf cweaver with the hammer nerf ... clearly because it was cweavers using hammer that alerted them to the high DPS they didn't want to see.
Again, just because Anet's version of balance doesn't match your ideas should not lead you to the conclusion they just don't know what they are doing. It's irrelevant if they do or don't know ... because they are going to do it the way they want to do it.
man, what is that i just read "you dont know how they arrived at the decision" "And yes, they did nerf cweaver with the hammer nerf ... cleary because it was cweavers using hammer that alerted them to the high DPS they didn't want to see." dont you see how you you contradicted yourself, also tempest had more damage with hammer.
My version of balance is a fair balance, i think its very fair to assume that, but look, im not asking to be perfect, its just that CC on condi elementalist builds are bad, on fights that you need cc you barely see one, and when you see he is doing barely any cc, and i dont think this is intended, its just happened that condi ele builds prefer earth and and fire, while the cc is usually on air and water, this is mostly for pvp and wvw reasons, however its perhaps time to rethink that concept, maybe alocating the cc to earth and air, instead of air and water, will help a lot, also maybe put unravel on f5, so you no longer have to plan you cc far ahead, since its usually on the offhand, adding a layer of complexity to an already complexity build, this is not much of an issue on power builds, because they happened to prefer air and fire, i honestly think that they simple dont care enough to solve it, because its only a problem on pve for condi builds, and its mostly for cweaver because of the global cd on elemental swap, tempest does not have this issue at this same level (its still an issue), and will prob be a mess on other game modes if they tried to solve it unless they did balance around for those modes, basically giving them work, its hard to do that, however i would like to see my favorite build to get fixed on my favorite mode (pve).
Again, this is just what i think, it may not be the case, but the fact is cweaver has really low cc, has a hard time reaching that cc, and not a lot to show for, again, you dont have to believe me, see the popularity on fights where everyone needs to cc, you can see this problem on some of those fights, that is a very clear problem here, whether or not you or they want to believe it does not exist, or they think it should be consider on the balance. But whenever some says "ele popularity is due to complexity" kitten, ele has much more problems besides that, soulbeast is a popular build, in my opinion is a harder build than cweaver, even with weave self, you need to be carefull about cancelling animatins, you need to count AA chains, but its still popular, and that is the case for many others, ele problems goes much beyond complexity, but those are problems that are being ignored, while the blame goes solely on complexity, its not even the worst offender, you can play a tempest build that camps on fire, its extremely easy and it has high damage, no one plays it tho, the low amount of cc being one of the main reasons
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16 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:
it was not released but a beta.
now compare your cweaver power budget to power deadeye the difference is much greater than to cvirt.i mean, they did released soto scourge 50k (and stayed there for a month and half), cata 52k , and i would think that stuff on beta is suppose to be working or barely working, i guess we didnt even had the skill image for the new weapons
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10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:
So just doing some research here. From Jan 30th patch notes:
The changes to hammer in November pushed condition builds for tempest and weaver a bit higher than we like to see, so we're making a few tweaks to bring those builds back in line.
- Singeing Strike: Reduced the burning duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvE only.
- Surging Flames: Reduced the burning duration from 9 seconds to 3 seconds in PvE only.
- Ground Pound: Reduced the bleeding duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds in PvE only.
So explain again how Anet should conclude that cweaver isn't hitting its power budget and that somehow 'the numbers' suggest it's a have not spec? Seems to me "the numbers" suggest the OPPOSITE based on the change Anet put in on Jan 30th. So either Anet isn't interpreting their own philosophy and numbers correct ... OR ... someone else isn't.
Tell us that story about how balancing is about fair and equal and not about the game working how Anet wants again. It's a good one.
at this point i think you are baiting me, this is just them balancing solely in golem benchmark, the lazy balance that i mentioned, also they nerfed hammer, not cweaver itself, before this they have buffed hammer, but it seems like that the buff was too much, or not what they wanted (because they aimed at the power catalyst hammer build), which tells that they actually dont know what they are doing that well
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16 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:
it was not released but a beta.
now compare your cweaver power budget to power deadeye the difference is much greater than to cvirt.power deadeye has more damage and cc than cweaver, i dont really understand what you mean by that, also you can take basilisk for huge cc, you can play ranged, it has a better armor rate, deadeye is the best spec for some niche roles when dealing with damage on range, such as q2 pylon kite and q1 kite, im not saying it does not have problem but so do ele
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
That's funny ... you think all of Anet's balancing decisions made sense or it has something to do with making classes strong.
Again, you don't get to set stage for balancing to get the results you want. You're going to tell us all about how cweaver doesn't meet it's power budget ... when you don't know what that budget is or how it's determined. Good times.
I don't think Anet are waiting for anything ... they do balance patches all time.
i think its very fair to assume that it has to make sense, otherwise what is anet even doing paying people to do it
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
You don't get to define what power budget is and how it works to justify changes you want to the game. That doesn't make sense. For all you know, cweaver meets or even exceeds its power budget because Anet determines that, not you.
also lets not forget that they released the thief axe, 64k dps, very much on the power budget right ? they surely know it
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
You don't get to define what power budget is and how it works to justify changes you want to the game. That doesn't make sense. For all you know, cweaver meets or even exceeds its power budget because Anet determines that, not you.
but it does not make any sense, what exactly makes cweaver so strong ? you cant tell, i cant tell, nobody can tell, only the balance team can tell, they can keep thinking that cweaver is very strong while the playerbase goes close to 0, but hey, cweaver is very strong
What you are saying is so much non sense, its almost like you are chilling for the company "everything they do is right, everytime they know better, no matter what they do they will be right", they backing track partially on the mirage nerfs after the community told anet of how much, ON NUMBERS, mirage would be tell you exactly that right.
Want to know what i think ? i think they are just lazy and are waiting for the new weapons to do any balance
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Again, I'm simply telling you that Anet isn't just balancing because 'numbers' so when you sit here and pretend you understand their balance philosophy because cvirt > cweaver ... you don't.
power budget is the potency of what a build can offer (their words), pve wise you can number what a build can offer, that is nothing hidden or obscure, but lets assume for some reason, they are balancing around, idk, fun, fun cant be numered, you know elementalist players have a lot of fun playing their build, so it should be weaker, does it not means that we should criticize it ? because that is an implication of what power budget means, on pve, and on every game mode as well, also if that is the case is that any reason to even say anything about power budget, because at the end of the day, solar was balancing around power budget, but it was his, very much biased, power budget, i think its very fair to assume that power budget will balance a build around aspects of what a build can offer in a certain game mode, trying to be as fair as possible, and that is not that i already stated that a build can offer on instanced content or cant but numbered, as a matter of fact, you can see this balance on most of the other builds, for example, spellbreaker is a very strong build, you have perma stab, you have a lot of cc, you have a built in defensive options, but you have less damage you can see the power budget here, and you can see it for most of the cases, its cleary based on numbers, and numbers only, Also before Soto things were pretty balanced, because at least cweaver had more damage, cvirt was like 4k lower than what is now, still was much popular but at least you had a reason to play cweaver, what happened from before soto to now on the power budget that made cvirt to have more damage ? did somehow on some aspect cweaver got better ? its actually got worse, because before soto you had more cc on focus, instead of using warhorn
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Sure, and I'm just going to tell you it's not just about the numbers. So if you just want to boil down balance to number comparisons between classes, prepare yourself for many instances of confusion and disappointment because it's safe to say that most instances of balance don't work how you think.
i really want to see you tell me an aspect that is not numbers, because i cant think in any. even difficulty can be boiled down to numbers
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Like you already said... it's abstract. Only Anet knows how they consider power budget in balance. What I DO know is that you don't.
Again, you're going to try to boil this down to 'numbers' to argue. What I'm going to say is that it's not just about numbers on skills. It can't be.
because numbers are absolute, numbers are never wrong, you cant argue against numbers, you can argue about giving a highter value to a certain aspect of the power budget, like damage, or cc, but in the end is about numbers, when the balance team makes change, they make numbers changes, or in the end, it became numbers change. The problem is that im having a hard time finding this aspect, and looking at the popularity, its not only me, dont you remember that solar was removed from the balance team because of this same difference between specs, on his case everything was much worse tho, and for this exactly reason that the new balance team announced the new philosophy, the power budget
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
No you can't, because the game isn't just about counting numbers.
so besides what i said, what is exactly the counted on the power budget ? nor me, or the players, can see this hidden advatnage the cweaver has
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Yeah exactly ... so you can't say it's deficient in it's power budget. You just don't know.
i can say because it has everything worse, if at least it had one advantange then i could not say, it would be very dubious still, but its does not have, literally 0, when a sepc does cc and less damage its hard to see wether or not it should be the case, its the balance job to judge that, but as you can see, in this case, that is a strengh, and weakness, however when comparing cweaver to cvirt you have literally 0 points to cweaver literally 0
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
I see lots of numbers here; problem is that the game isn't played in Excel. What's relevant is people playing it, using it's skills effectively and being successful with it. If cweaver is deficient (again, not going to argue iif it is or isn't), it's not because it has lower numbers or some encounters where it's not desirable. Deficiency isn't just a question of who does what better. You keep talking about the power budget, except you don't know where cweaver rates on it's power budget.
The problem here is that you aren't really asking for something specific. You just quote philosophy, interpret it how you see fit and say cweaver is an exception to it thinking this justifies it getting anything. That doesn't make sense.
because power budget is an abstract concept, you cant really compare damage to cc, to survivability, to defensive options, however you should try your best to at least make it so some specs that has one better has one worst, its hard to balance this, but the problem is when comparing cweaver with cvirt, cweaver has literally, and i mean literally, everything worse, so surely if they are keeping true to the power budget, they would have done something to cweaver or cvirt, in this case is very easy to see that power budget is not being applied to this case in specific
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Your 'recall' is pretty bad ... I didn't agree to any of that. You're simply fishing for a cweaver buff and cause you can't justify any specific one, you just throw out 'exception to balance'.
3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:Again, I'm not arguing with you about how deficient cweaver is (even though I think you are exaggerating the issues it has). My point is simply that you don't get to cherry pick Anet's philosophy to justify how you want things to work.
3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:Because power budget is just one part of the whole philosophy.
Also if you think that im exaggerating, please enligh me how, i can name it and number it, the cc difference is on the post, the damage difference you can see on wingman, on some cases goes beyond 10%, on utility points virtuoso loses ~1k dps from ilu signet, meaning that he can just replace for a 2% dps loss, and replaces with stuff like cleanse mantra or stab mantra, or even more cc, while cweaver has to take a 3k (7%) dps loss and does not have anything that good to replace it to being with, cvirt can replace moa to do instantly 600 cc for a ~600 dps loss, if cweaver wants to use tornado, and have a slow cc, and you cant do damage while on tornado, you have to take a around 4k dps loss, completly kills your burst, prob one of the worst condi ramp up in the game, same levels of mirage, you reach 30k on only on 25s, on survivability cweaver has a barrier every 12 s due to earth/fire duo attack, its around 520, which translates in 43 barrier/ second and can use the healing signet, healing 200 per every skill, on the best scenario you will do 3 actions / second, and on worst you can do 1, lets go with 3, you will heal 600 + 43 of barrier, that is 643, cvirt has a life steal, which will heal for 1.2k / s on its current dps, double the value, you can cleary see this difference on fights like q2, where a weaver has to take arcane to able to pylon kite, while a cvirt does not have to take anything to do it, only mimic and teleport to get the balls, but so weaver, which will result in much less damage, on defensive options i cvirt has distortion, a very strong invul for free, also you have a block on your dps set, on range cweaver has 900 range on scepter and its meele on warhorn, cvirt is full 1200 ranged, only has one professional meele skill, you can just not use it and spend the blades in other way, cweaver is just harder, period, specially with weave self.
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
That doesn't make sense ... the balance philosophy isn't making 'ele worse'.
But, if you aren't familiar with what the balance philosophy says, you should before you continue to argue with people while quoting it.
lets recall everything, we agree that cweaver is just a worse cvirt, we agree that the power budget exist, if that was only power budget then cweaver would be brough up somehow, like damage, cc, range, idk, somehow it would have be buffed, but you said that is only one part, so surely that is another part stoping this from happening, im asking you what is it
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Because power budget is just one part of the whole philosophy.
all right, so what is the other part of the balance philosophy that is making ele worse ?
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Again, I'm not arguing with you about how deficient cweaver is. That doesn't even have anything to do with the point I'm making to you.
how does not go against the power budget if is deficient ?
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Maybe ... but you can be certain who isn't ignoring THEIR philosophy is Anet. Which is why it's absurd you come in here an try to slap everyone around with it.
On some cases they are, on outside of classes like mesmer and ele things are about even, but those 2 are not following the power budget, you dont have to be a genius to state that, cweaver is literally a worse version than cvirt, it has less damage on golem, in some cases much less damage on real encounters, CO cm is one example https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/dagda. even on the last patch cvirt had more damage despite the hammer doing 46k on golem, also ankka cm too https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/ankka, while having much less survivability, less range, much less cc, much less cleve, being harder, having very expensive utilities, having no defensive options such as distortion, not block available such as sword 4, having less condi burst, its just a much worse build
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
The best part is where YOU come in, tell Anet their own des
The best part of the thread is where you come in, re-define Anet's philosophy for them (I'm sure they didn't ask you), then tell them it's all wrong based on your vision of the philosophy they should be using because 'literal definition'. I can tell you how it ends. Leonardo drowns, the Titanic sinks. I saw it before.
i love how you are completly ignoring the power budget philosophy from anet
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
I never said any such nonsense. I'm simply telling you that cweaver being deficient is not necessarily a balancing issue because there isn't any indication that classes are balanced with respect to each other's capabilities. It's simply not a problem that cweaver doesn't have the same toolset of other classes. That's INTENDED. Classes are designed to not be the same as other ones.
You did said "balance is around content as long as a class can clear it its balanced" so it can be as many times as you want.
This design only makes sense if classes have strenght and weakness, this is not the case, some only have weakness.
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3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
being sensational doesn't make your argument for you. cweaver is 100 times worse than other classes? Just no.
Again, it's NOT a problem is a specific spec or build is a low choice for a particular encounter. Not everything can perform at the same level. That's expected and it's realistic.
i never said it was 100 times, but according to you it can 10000x times, as long as it can clear its balanced, this is literally what you said, since balance is around content, but its much worse, im not being sensational, make the test, try to play weaver on fights like ankka cm and see the results
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Condition Elementalist issues in general
in Elementalist
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that used to be true but not anymore, scepter on condi builds had a 15% strike damage on cweaver, for pistol its 8% strike damage, some weapons are condi because if they were power they would suck, for example dagger, scepter, pistol, staff