[Pls fix this pathetic meta]

I don't know what went through the heads of balance team to make CD longer, so the gameplay is less about skill and just about numbers when 80 people got killed by 20 people some years ago. Where as of now 5 more people in 1 of the squads means GG. Or to make stuff like Chrono as powerful as they are and scourge become heal....? Like how the kitten did scourge become heal???. But this game has seriously become so bad to play. 

Way too little moving, way to much over stack, just stand still and press skills. If I wanted that I would go to a PvE boss and hit it, and maybe even watch video/stream number 50000 about how to kill this boss quicker, or balance or w/e. Instead of actual entertaining interesting stuff, like in WoW video where they turn on their own guild or....kitten even minecraft. This kitten is not fun, pls fix. And I already smell the next nerf on eles.....because they exist? pls don't

[We were told to open a ticket]

To be honest, A-Net has been extremely good at putting people in the servers with their guild, even over the weekend.

[(Resolved) Known Issue with World Restructuring Beta Event]

EU
Account: zengara.8301

Guild  for WvW: Tsss Meow Boom [aWoo]
Current Team: Thornwatch
Expected Team: Dragon's Claw

[Boonball meta is bad]

9 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

lol compared to what? Your “20 vs 80” glory days? DPS, sustain, boons, everything is at absolutely insane levels due to elite specs.

No, the reason your “20 vs 80” lost was due to the “80” actually learning how to deal with it while the “20” kept doing the good old stack and push.

Even Red Guard eventually fell to the cloud.

If anything the boonball meta has over the years made the “smaller” groups far stronger again.

Wiki the skills? Wells alone should give a good idea, and in regards to sustain. The entire engineer/super speed/mass cleanse thing is completely gone? How is everything "absolutely insane levels", when everything is down, from cooldown being way higher, so if they don't die, you lost, and with lowering of power coefficiency and sustain you die either way? I am playing the game, it genuinely feels like people became worse, not better, but the fact is, smaller groups can not kill bigger groups, because dmg output is down, and can not survive random wells thrown at them, because sustain is no longer constant. Which it was, as long as you move with the tag, and did what they asked- Beforehand 3 wells placed correctly, was a big problem, not so much anymore. The skill ceiling of this game has gone down in WvW because the differentiation between the good players, and the bad players exists less now. Based on lowering the damage, and lowering the overall button clicking. There are simply less buttons to click, and even moving perfectly and bombing a blob there is completely split, matters less now, because they won't die, unless if you are a blob as well.

My idea of "skills" in these kind of games, is pressing the buttons, and movement. Not ilvl gear, or even straight up winning. But "how you won", skill wise, which requires pressing buttons correctly, and doing your job, if it is strip, dmg, sustain etc. People had a theory about decreasing the amount of times you could press a skill, and the damage from that skill + lowering sustain, would increase skill levels, because then what and when you "pressed it matters". And in practice, it simply did not. You are just honestly wrong here

[Boonball meta is bad]

3 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

The higher up groups running the "OP" builds and doing well in the "boon ball meta" are generally both coordinated and skilled.  These groups will have a driver, make calls, pushes maneuvers and pay attention to all the games mechanics.  The lesser skilled groups who haven't organized their party/players and just zerg together get run over by these better organized and managed groups.

People who think there is no skill in the higher level groups are very mistaken.  Obviously WvW is not numerically balanced.  Any group containing double or more players then their opponents will generally lead into "W key pushes" that will simply roll over smaller groups or swashes of unorganized players.  Though smaller bomb groups 5-10players still exist and can be effective depending on the situation.

All the things you wished people still considered still exist mostly.  They've just changed as the game has changed.

A lot of genuinely skilled players, left the game years ago, because lack of skill (they increased CD on most skill, lowered DPS, which means that beforehand, when the guild I ran with, could kill 80 players with 20 players, now would not be able of doing so, because both sustain and dmg output has been decreased, which means your DMG is useless in smaller groups, vs bigger groups, because they don't die, no matter how on the same spot your entire DPS group bombs, but the bigger blob now, can throw random damage, and out DPS your sustain.) I don't want a straight up "Roaming game", those always dies out, for good reason. Nobody wants to be jumped by a bunch of Thieves or Mesmers and not have a counter to that, and I specifically don't think anyone wants to be part of a gank-like game, those kinds of games always becomes very empty super fast....again, super good reason for that.

But, to say that today, as it is right now, is based on skill, is not true either.. I have not read most posts here, but based on previous posts, it does seem like people want to have the PoF feeling again. Where you could out dps your opponent, if you pressed the right buttons, bombed in the right spot. And you could spam the sustain, if you did it correctly, so there is no down time for smaller groups to instantly die to a bigger group that does not even try to CC players. (Obviously strips being lowered, is a big problem aswell)

 

.....Basically, they decreased both the DPS output, the Sustain and Strips. Which results in lowering the entire skill ceiling, so the best player, and the worst players are not that far apart. Which in theory of the players who wanted that to happen (less sustain, less skill output), should have made you "need to know when to heal and/or damage" (which to be fair, I think kind of worked, in some 1v1 situations? But obviously based on "strong builds" like condition builds, balances are not made for 1v1 situations, and therefore I don't think it did much, other than just change what you played, rather than the entire fight.) Should also have worked in PvP situations, but PvP in Gw2 is capture flag, and zoom around to 2-3 shot enemies), but in practice, based on how Guild Wars 2 WvW community works, basically mainly community fights/roaming, just resulted in, more numbers = more skills to throw = the stronger enemies with less people, simply don't have that much sustain to sustain random wells thrown at them, nor same number of skill to throw back at the enemies since the damage is lowered but so is the sustain = bigger means more wins. in conclusion, less skills required overall to win, just mainly numbers.

[I just watched blizhcon 2023 and, I thought we could help out their team through this discussion]

On 11/8/2023 at 8:00 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Basically, Blizzard (as any other game studion worth their name) is observing what other studios do, and which of those ideas that appeared in other games might be useful, and tries to incorporate them in their game. If it works, good for them.

I was trolling, sure. But the "Borrow something, and make it better" quote. I agree on. The issue is they are just borrowing stuff, and not improving on it at all o.o Everything they "borrowed", at best was barely a 1:1 borrow, at worst was far worse. The "improving on it" part is insanely important. But they are completely skipping that part, and just yeeting everything as quick as they can

[I just watched blizhcon 2023 and, I thought we could help out their team through this discussion]

Just now, Arianth Moonlight.6453 said:

legitim confused emoji here.

what?

Oh just a lot of stuff that seem to be copied from the new game o.o Thought I explained that well 😞 guess troll comment failed 

[I just watched blizhcon 2023 and, I thought we could help out their team through this discussion]

So we all know this specific company likes to "borrow ideas", since they are not that very good at making stuff up themselves. Personally I do like how they decided to take the Skyscale and wizards vault completely. They are working on "respecting your time" and other stuff, like fractals, which is great. 

But I wanted to give them an easier time, by letting them just read through the forums discussions, instead of  playing the entire game, or being on the front page of Gw2 all the time, waiting for new stuff to pop up-

Personally I would love to see underwater combat, or like when you move behind a wall, an arrow don't hit you. That would be cool. Any other ideas would be appreciated

-Sincerely, not a Blizzhurd employee

[Add Roller Beetle to WvW]

Would be hilarious

 

[As a WvW only player is Soto worth buying?]

Tbf, as a WvW player. You technically do not need to buy anything more than PoF and may HoT. Depends if you roam or play with others etc

[We have reached 2000!]

Just wanted to gratz a-net it has been exactly 2000 days, since alliances were announced!

[Boonball meta is bad]

I am personally happy for PoF meta xD

[Boonball meta is bad]

8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Pretty sure you meant retaliation and not resistance...

oh you right

[Boonball meta is bad]

9 hours ago, Crazy.6029 said:

Here is the thing, where is the counter play and balance to this boonball abomination? Are we supposed to bring 25 necros and another 15 warrs and maybe 10 mesmers for a total of 50 in squad just to boon corrupt or rip this mess? Of course not, or you would see it as a counter right now. The only counter is boon ball up to the max with higher numbers. That is it, that is all, just stack boons and then run back and forth over each other in 2-3 giant groups until someone stands in red circles for too long and dies. That is not counter play, that is not balance. The boons should be a CD basis not permanent so that aegis and vigor and regen and res and everything else is always up, so no worries about death, just make sure boon is up, don't even dodge, you won't need it.

The boons need to be able to be stripped or corrupted, right now there is WAY too much output of boons compared to boon removal. Give us please more removal so once that happens the big boon ball has to use their brains and move, dodge, pop damage mitigators or escapes, you know, whatever they want but at least it is back and forth, as in COUNTERPLAY, But that WON'T happen with this perma boon ball meta. What the hec is everyone thinking? Is it just let's all pretend that we are awesome and just PVE boss rush everything? 

Please Anet look at your balance approach, this is just insulting to anyone that actually enjoys COUNTERPLAY, not mindless zerg carry me BOONSBALL meta with no counterplay but more of the same.

 

Dude, this is what bothers me. People are asking to kill boon ball, but doing it in the most horrific way possible, that will only strenghtening boon balls. Back when you could kill 80 man squads with 20 people (if you were in a good guild) boons was way more powerful, there were even boons that was called resistance, that basically killed any zerker enemy without boons themselves. 

What I am getting at, if you have 20 people, as long as boons are down, the only hope you have is 1 push, which is boring af. Back when they did not nerf dmg and boons, guilds could easily destroy 80 players, because cordination mattered way more than numbers. With the boons 20 players can survive noodle dmg and random throwing of dmg from the blob and untop of that, cut them down 30 players at a time with higher dmg, and more importantly, cordination. Cordinating a spike to a single place all at once, meanwhile surviving the random dmg thrown at them.

.If you remove boons, smaller guilds will never be able to "boon bust", without it being a 1 push, where you hope you somehow survive. If the enemy got 10 scourges vs your 2-3 scourges, your scourges are better at cordinating, so you kill 20 but they lower your scourges hp to 50%, they can just keep going. What matters to the smaller guild is skill, basically can you keep healing/boons up, meanwhile being at the rightp place, and cordinating a spike/bomb. Also it just pushes for boring lazy gameplay. But the smaller group can simply not survive a 1111 from 80 players, simply because they have down time on healing and giving boons, so they just need to overwhelm you with 111 and you die, when healer is off cd and boons are down. 

 

Basically=numbers matters insanely much now, because less boons and less dmg/longer cd.

[Alliance will never work out]

Either you split up people based on skill, how close they are to tag on average, downs, builds etc and keep those stats secret and split 2 groups based on wanting to fight, PPT, roaming or even just chat (like literally only in wvw for chatting) and make each section fight eachother. Where I think each party would be most happy, because they are doing what they like, and doing it with others that like the same.

Or split individual people up where you mix people in, that want to do xyz, but still in the manner each server having good players.

Other than that, I just don't think there is a system that can work. If you log in to fight, you want to play with good players, against good players. So if your players are not good, you move. And that creates a system where everyone moves to 1 server. Like in this alliance system, I am writing with people, and people are not having fun

And of course this is going to look great, when equalized it to worst scenario of WvW at the end of the 2 months,  where players are over playing with new people and just want good fights

[[POLL] How long should links last for and discuss how should relinks be decided]

14 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Except, that people aren't transferring for bigger (more people) overall fights.  They transfer so that they always outnumber their opponents.  Rarely does a guild transfer to some poor outnumbered server cause they want "better fights=more people".  Players have proven over 10 years that they will choose the path of least resistance.  Which is why every time BG or mag opens, they get tons of players.  Why when relink is announced, their links get tons of people.  Not because people want a challenge.

You are literally avoiding what I wrote and presenting what you want? I mean ok, just weird. I wrote that people want other people who play the game, and fight other people who also plays the game. both

[[POLL] How long should links last for and discuss how should relinks be decided]

2 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

The problem isn't relinks, it transfers.  The whole reason the system fails is because NO ONE wants a challenge.  Relinks announced, within 5 minutes entire guilds transfer to stack a server.  There is no way to make a system work that is constantly being gamed by half the playerbase.

Maybe not the best solution, but they need to prohibit transfers for a time period around relinks.  Make it so that 2 weeks before relinks and 2 weeks after relinks no transfers are allowed.  Matches are 8 weeks.  That would only give the fairweather crowd 4 weeks to manipulate matches in their favor.

 

If no one has noticed, the problem with the "solution" is that it takes away a revenue source from Anet, which is why WvW can never be fixed.  The matchmaking algorithm can't compete with players transferring/stacking for easier fights.

Its not about "the challenge", it is about people listening or not. How people "want to play the game", or can play the game. I want to fight hard enemies, but I also want the people on my side to actually do stuff, and not have 50 people where only 4 people out of 50 dealt dmg and the rest might aswell have been doing nothing.

And no offense, but Gw2 1v1 is not boring, but not the best, every "korean style" skill 1v1 game out there, beats it, or even Starcraft if I want direct 1v1. The social aspects of game is great, but it is not my core aim to log in. The only thing that I find unique in Gw2 is the guild vs guild or ZvZ/blob vs blob.

Idk, this has been going on for a while, but it is beyond clear that better fights=more people because "content". EOTM dies out, because why would ppl even wvw, if it is the same as map farming, which I avoid. Its just the whole "every game makes some weird version of WvW, all of them dies out because no content

[Is 25 stacks of might too much for wvw?]

3 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

1. They continued to nerf boon strips the past two years, winds, throw mines, null field, break enchantments, phantasmal defender, trail of anguish, sigil of absorption, etc.

2. They nerfed damage of the big aoe skills.

3. They reduced all target caps to 5, only a couple exceptions remain, we even had groups spamming Rise! to mitigate aoe damage.

4. They added concentration to celestial, the more tanky set that's probably the most common set for roamers/zerg pugs now.

5. Increased boon spam.

These are all reasons why it's harder for a 20 comp to kill a 40 comp.

 

Feels like every time we have a discussion on boons, we get a counter to them nerfed, to the point it feels like anet does it out of spite, and then we get that joke they're going to investigate boon application vs removal, hasn't happened in 8 months now. Overall I don't particularly agree with this idea to nerf stacks of might, it's an across the board nerf and I feel like maybe more individual boon application spam problems should be looked at instead.

But in the end Anet does, not, care. Boon spam, this is the way, it is known.

I don't think that is a fair assetment, counting the numbers of patches in the forums, where 1 patch for nerfing boons/dmg/healing was insanely massive vs smaller patches for boonstripping, rather than the actual numbers presented (I do think bubble got nerfed way to hard though), and showcased in the game, or at the very least, the conclusion as I write here. I agree with number 2, but that is the biggest reason. They fully reworked Firebrand to give massively less boons, and scrapper to give massively less healing, now (burst healing/cleanse) vs back when retaliation was a thing, or even around PoF.

 

I mean hopefully im making sense, but if a smaller group have a burst healing/boons, it is simply less skillful, compared to bigger group that can just spam these skills, because they are more. (Unless the entire thing is about 1 push)

 

Obviously you agree that less damage is bad, since smaller group can really not do anything at that point, but the same concept goes for healing/boons, the smaller guild can not survive, if all it can survive is literally 1 push, and then it just have to barely run away and wait for the FB/cleanser cooldowns (which wont happen realistically, when you are in, you need to also take care of all the pulls, random ranged dmg etc).

[Is 25 stacks of might too much for wvw?]

4 hours ago, blp.3489 said:

I'll say up front that I am neither very experienced or all that skilled, and certainly don't play in a fight guild so I've got a different perspective.  I spend most of my time playing small scale on borderlands but will join a blob on more populated maps when trying to play small scale is just a death sentence.  Or I want to finish off the weeklies.

Anyway, I would prefer the game not be designed around giving a group of 25 skilled players the ability to destroy a group of 80 less skilled players.  Maybe I'm not parsing it correctly but I certainly don't like the idea of 3 necros downing 30 players.

I may not be the best person to judge but I think there is enough room for skill expression in having a tightly coordinated group of skilled players outplaying a somewhat larger group of less skilled, less coordinated players without the need for extensive boon sharing on either side.  I don't see the careful setting up of specified specialized builds into squad subgroups to achieve permanent might, fury, quickness, alacrity etc. as the type of skill expression that I find appealing.  Conversely, I also don't find running around in a large unopposed group running over smaller groups, capturing undefended objectives and tagging enemies very fulfilling either.

Perhaps open world pve has predisposed a lot of players to adopt a semiautonomous playstyle.  What I get out of wvw is foremost the unpredictability of players versus the over-predictability of npcs combined with cooperative play that's more than just another player being there beating on the same boss.  And unlike instanced pve there isn't a rigid script for how an encounter will play out.

Am I just another of "those players" that gets thrashed and runs to the forums calling for their opponents to be nerfed?  Probably guilty as charged.  I don't actually expect Anet to change anything anyway, I just would love to have a wvw-like game mode that isn't heavily influenced by group boon sharing, where a group of players bring their individual strengths and weaknesses together and fight other groups of similar sizes and triumph or fall based on their individual abilities and ability to coordinate actions rather than based on the coordination of their builds and boon sharing ability.

P.S.  If I could change just one thing about gw2 my priority would be ending stacking, I can't think of anything more detrimental to my sense of reasonable "realism" than forty players all standing in the same place.

Well, I think the reason Gw2 wvw game, is probably one of the most "live open world mmo pvp" game out, is precisely because of cordination and excecution of the skills together used against an enemy group, forcing the enemy group to bomb, avoiding that bomb and responding, back and forth, until the more cordinated group/better commander wins. Obviously again, the current meta seems very 1 push heavy, if you are smaller against bigger groups, you usually only got 1 shot. But I think the reason other games dies out, is simply because they do not have that. From ganking to lack of cordinated skills required in game compared to gear level, or just being more than the enemy group, number wise. The more Gw2 seems to go that way, the more boring the gameplay is for many that play the game, it seems. It is just not fun, if skill is not involved, and obviously limiting the amount of skills you can use/dmg output&boons, result in a numbers game and little skill.

 

Maybe I am completely wrong, but it sounds less like you want this fast phased mmo experience, and more of a massive siege kind of game, that feels realistic, where the walls are sky high and you are all zoomed into your character holding a realistic weapon, where there is an army slowly entering a castle and people dying from arrows etc?`I just do not think games like that can survive for very long, even though it looks good at that moment, it becomes to slow and honestly, just boring. But maybe I completely misunderstood what you are looking for

[Is 25 stacks of might too much for wvw?]

On 5/4/2023 at 6:29 AM, Xenesis.6389 said:

Not much point discussing it, anet isn't going to do anything to nerf boons, players want the dps boons up 100% of the time, neither are interested in boon removals, players want more low intensity passive maximum damage builds, and anet wants to raise the minimum skill level by making sure everyone has 100% access to the dps boons. I would like boons to be used in more of a low duration burst manner, use them when you need them, but everyone disagrees with that, we are well beyond that point and anet will not take the time to revamp the boon spam combat system. 🤷‍♂️

Well, the issue is that nobody is discussing it. Or at the very least, genuinely thinking about what it does. People are just thinking that "if they nerf boons, it somehow turns back to base game", without thinking about baby cages is 5 core hammer 5 guardian CC's or grave well, pulls you in and forces you into air and the immense amount of cc's they have added to the game etc. If you actually want to raise skill level, you increase damage, boons and healing. When damage got nerfed,the biggest change every skilled guild saw, was that they could not kill a blob as easily, because cordinated spike killed 20 less players so 80 people can just wet noodle their way to victory, based on numbers. Then they nerfed healing/boons and now it is impossible for smaller guilds to fight a blob, simply because the "skilled players" that could actually use the skills accordingly, is now limited/waiting to use their skills accordingly. "Burst low duration" just ends up with blob winning, because they got more, meanwhile the smaller guild is done after 1 push

Edit: In "theory" it sounds good, if you completely isolate boons. But in reality, if you chop off healing/cleansing/boons. And at the same time, lower dps. 3 necros that might down 30 people (back then, with dps build) in a 80 vs 25, will now down 10 and wont be able to kill them., meanwhile "burst cleansing" will only heal you for the first random 2 necros that throw their wells where it would hit 25% health, because these 2 necros from the blob are bad. But what about the 8+ others necros that will randomly throw wells that also hits you for 25% of your health? Now you don't have healing/boons nor damage, because the massive cooldown. Suddenly skill does not matter, it is just about numbers. I don't know how else to explain this. But boons are not the issue

[hey anet! look into your forum, that's exactly what you have to do!]

Honestly, just turn it back to when dmg was massive. This system now is only good for blobs and randos running together, it is rather boring to play for most ppl, kitten even top guilds struggle with fighting other mid tier guild when they have just 5 more players. The weird part is, it seems like they making updates for NA, 1 push meta. But most players are EU if I am not wrong

[Did PvE players become more easily annoyed?]

Not bad topics, gotta write those down

[Did PvE players become more easily annoyed?]

kitten was kidding xD

[Did PvE players become more easily annoyed?]

we should report unfun people

[Did PvE players become more easily annoyed?]

It is weird, as soon as you have a little bit of fun in map chat, specially in a farm map (forgot technical name) instantly people seem to get pissed off at a higher degree. stuff like "stop now!" or random stuff like that. o.o It is like they don't even enjoy playing the game. I don't have a problem being blocked, but I just find it weird, playing an mmo with 0 fun allowed 😞