[Deadeye is broken OP]

@"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

Can’t cast the elite during the DJ animation, sorry but before DJ ever does its animation or damage the DE is Revealed with all of its blatantly obvious audio/visual tells. Also all Malice is consumed on DJ if it hits, but hey knowing how skills work is tough.

Is this the skills you're talking about? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment Or am I in different game?

Here is why DJ is so OP :DJ doesn't cost initiative.DJ cool down is 1 sec that's nothing consider the damage.There is 3 secs revealed but it can easily removed by DE Elite.Malic ONLY consumed if DJ hits the target, make dodging useless since DJ can be shot 2 sec later.Not to mention unblockable.Being revealed is actually why DJ hit so hard, due to additional power from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed_TrainingAlso knowing where the DE after casting DJ doesn't help either since you can stealth almost immediately. Not to mention 1500 range is distance only LB ranger can catch.

[Thf Vault]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Kawloon Fuathach.3807 said:You can actually pre-cast Vault with any teleportation skill. The window of opportunity is very small however, sitting at roughly the 65% Cast Bar mark, and the higher your latency is, the lower the chance of its' success. Anything above 100 ping, and you'll end up vaulting in place more than vault-stepping to your target.

I use both Assassin's Signet and Signet of Shadows, typically popping Assassins Signet initially before I engage, and then Signet of Shadows right before my burst hits.

Thanks! Yeah, both of those signets must pack a punch! That's what... about a 25% or so damage boost without the Might/Vulnerability from the trap?

Yeah thanks Kawloon glad to know vault can also 1-shot people without smoke detector.

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

What I mean is that Shadow Pursuit is often a blind because you often don't have sight of the target. Many Rangers/Guardians will drop a trap on a point as soon as they get there, and just stand on top of it while (de)capping. The instant you port back, you activate the trap. For glass Thieves, that's usually enough to either kill you directly or to maim and "reveal" your presence so the target easily finishes you off.

Its even more impressive (and broken) that thief can 1-shot people blindly.With precast vault + teleport + stealth? And that insane damage? I doubt any trapper could fight back even with all their trap activated.

Double edge sword as in it can be as lethal to the Thief as it is the target. In order to do enough damage to kill an opponent quickly, the Thief must make itself fragile enough to be killed quickly. If one thing doesn't go the Thief's way, he is in a lot of trouble. The nature of a glass cannon.Yes so does any other classes. I don't know why thief still whine about this with their mobility + stealth.

Yes, the Ranger needs to prepare itself in order to hit hard. That's why I specified target/field preparation. The Ranger can come out of left field to hit an unsuspecting target. In this case, the Thief had to prepare the field before the engagement even began. The trap had to be laid beforehand or the attack would have never been possible. That made it an premeditated ambush. To a lesser extent, the Thief also prepared the target with another skill (Signet of Shadows) to apply more Vulnerability before making the actual strike.

While, for some technical reason, the signs of an incoming attack did not appear quickly enough for the target to react, there are visible tells present (at least to the server) before a Thief can make such a heavy attack. Should the tells display sooner? Yes... I don't know why they don't. But they are there... and they SHOULD be showing.

That's why I say the Thief's attack is different than the Ranger's. The Ranger's is an offensive assault with no tell. The Thief's is a "defensive" ambush with tells. And by "defensive," I mean it requires giving up ground in order to gain an opportunity for attack.

Now you know 1-shot vault can be used with any teleport skills without field preparation (just like ranger).Now go! 1-shot people and let anet know how broken this skill is.

[Thf Vault]

@Legatus.3608 said:The important thing is that there should be counterplay and the build(s) in question (arguably but in my opinion) should not be top-tier builds. In the case of thief, every single one-shot build meets both of those conditions, so I don't see a problem with the build specifically.So what is the counterplay for pre-cast instakill attack + stealth + teleport ?

If you want to talk about trap as counterplay. Vault like most of thief attacks can be pre casted and hit the trapper before trap is triggered. You will need a very dumb thief to get killed by traps after the trapper is down.

If you think block / dodge /immunity should do. We have very limited of those and no one can pop defense without any awareness of from where and when the thief will attack. Remember stealth + teleport.

Maybe only bunker can survive the initial attack and pop their defensive cooldown. But by that time the game should be called 1-shot vs bunker instead of pvp.

@Legatus.3608 said:Now, if you're unable to see the tells in some instances due to smoke being hidden behind walls or latency or other such shenanigens, then those issues SHOULD be addressed. But definitely DON'T pin this as a "thief vault/dj is OP" problem, because that's not what this is. There were tells given in multiple different forms and it should fall to the player to react to them (and in one specific case apparently, to the game to display them correctly).

That may be true, but thief can decide not to attack until its target uses all of defensive cooldown. After all, the vulnerability + might from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Trapper last for 10 secs.Also as stated by Kawloon you can precast vault + steal (or other teleport stuff really) and no one will now they'll die 0.5 sec later.

[Thf Vault]

@NuhDah.9812 said:

@Hyraltia.4185 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:

@"DragonFury.6243" said:the pvp in getting more and more brainless one shot festaless fun and no chance to fight back at all

I mean LITERALLY THE POST RIGHT BEFORE YOURS he explained multiple ways to avoid it, I don't know how you can not see that

I feel like you're missing his entire point or the point everyone is making against 1 shot clown kitten, so I'll throw a brief explanation in.

When a game has one shot builds it leads to 2 types of players, those that abuse the cheese and those that despise it because it is just that, cheese. It's extremely bad for the health of a pvp game to have the "counterplay" to being one shot to randomly predict when a stealth person is gonna jump on you and blow you up, this is the same reason people wanted mirage nerfed, because no one has fun plying rng simulator with their life.

It actually leads to 3 types of player: those who know to counter it, those who learn how to play against it, and those who cry about it, the later one probably overlaps with your "those that despise it" category. One shot builds are not the problem in this game. The real problem are builds that can constantly one shot you once every 10 seconds or less, who also have strog defense mecanics and can't be one shoted back by another glass canon. Cause lets face it, glass canons should be the only clases that should be able to 1shot. Oh and the 10 seconds interval i mentoned is the time one needs to recover energy for a dodge, it makes the 1shot dodgeable unless you waste evades. And yeah there are proffesions with builds that can 1shot you in a time frame less than 10 seconds while having enough defense mecanics to go toe to toe with sustained builds. I guess those are the real offenders in the game right now.

And how exactly you can counterplay a SINGLE instakill attack that came from stealth? Because that is the problem in the game right now.

It may be okay for glass canon to do 1-shot against another glass canon. But the ele in video is not really a glass canon. He invest some of offensive stats to VITALITY, yet the thief can still instakill him FROM STEALTH.

And killing player in a frame of 10 secs is not 1-shot. A lot of things can happen in that scenario. Every profession can do that.

[Thf Vault]

@Legatus.3608 said:

Funny how stealth is preparation for a ranger but not for a thief, and how backstab or dj are one shot builds but worldly impact or maul is not

I'm not even going to bother arguing the actual build until you clear out all that really obvious bias

Which are my statement that bias to you? I never specifically said that thief's stealth is not part of preparation.

I also never said that 30k worldly impact is not a 1-shot build. And I do want that to get nerf too.

I just point out that not only thief who takes time to prepare for insane damage.

All class have need preparation for maximum burst. But right now only thief and ranger able to 1-shot people with no chance of survival.

[Thf Vault]

@Abelisk.4527 said:This is an RNG, one-trick pony build that relies on people stepping on your traps.In conquest everyone will step on point so having people trigger a trap is no longer RNG.

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

AOEs and other traps counter this build.

This is truth. Many times, it's an absolute blind teleport with no recourse. I can't recall the number of times I teleported into a Ranger's or Guardian's traps.I don't know how you can teleport to ranger's/guardian's trap. But at least trapper guardian/ranger are mostly visible and doesn't have access to 1-shot build.

@Kageseigi.2150 said:This is the life of the Thief. Getting one-shot/insta-downed whether the opponents are invisible or not. It's a two-edged sword. Single-target damage is literally the only thing a Thief can do decently.I don't know what you mean by double edge sword? it's free kill from stealth. And last time i check, vault can hit 5 targets in 180 radius.

@Kageseigi.2150 said:It was completely unlike the Ranger being able to hit for 30k+ (

22k through Protection

) from Stealth with absolutely no tell or target/field preparation (traps, malice, etc.).While I agree that ranger needs nerf too your statement is totally wrong.Ranger needs preparation to do that kind of damage. They have to activate Sic'em and Strength of the pack. Also stealth is count as preparation too.

[Thf Vault]

The fact that this ele is not pure glass build but still get downed in less than 2 secs is solid proof that thief need nerf so bad.