X Anthony A.8409
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Posts posted by X Anthony A.8409
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On 2/9/2023 at 10:48 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:
In the context where it came up in this thread, I think it is PvE-oriented. Why? Because the person who said Vindicator was the power spec also classified Herald as the support spec. Herald hasn't been a support spec in competitive modes for a long time - what it has been well known for is a high-mobility glass cannon power spike build, and occasionally bruiser builds that are either power or condi pop up. Meanwhile, in WvW it's been mostly known for
getting hammer nerfed into uselessness in other modes before ArenaNet started splitting skillsbackline ranged power spikes.But even in a PvP context, I think my observation that it does matter what the skills are holds. The example you use is one where the skillbars are split between two different roles, so you can easily switch between heavy damage and heavy sustain (particularly since in sPvP you can generally get more meaningful healing with lower investments in healing power) depending on what you need. Would we have the same problem if it was, say, Archemorus and Shiro paired, so both skillbars were damage oriented? I think not. You'd have the ability to choose between different methods of how you dish out the damage, which is an advantage over having fewer methods of doing so, but that flexibility can be accounted for and you're still spending the same energy. You have an extra heal, but that can be accounted for in balancing by making them both weaker than they would be if there was only one. You have an extra stunbreak, which is nice, but revenant isn't exactly known for its ability to easily break stuns to begin with - there's a degree to which that might just be average rather than exceptional, and there are potential opportunity costs to switching for the sake of accessing a stunbreak.
Having an additional skillbar that changes the role you play is, I think, a bigger problem to balance (not an insurmountable one, but a bigger one). The thing is that I think that historically there have been fewer builds that have had multiple bars all pushing towards the same purpose. Kit engis being the main one, Jalis heralds kinda count (Glint and Jalis are both primarily power/buff support hybrids, although Glint can also be configured to support a condi playstyle) and elementalists have only started getting builds where water is actually a reasonably selfish DPS option with a bit of sustain (every build needs some) rather than a designated group support attunement in the past year. Most builds with more than the usual number of skills involve some degree of changing your role when you switch bars.
To Respond to your post about saying that herald is not a support spec i respond by saying why has it been giving shield as it elite spec weapon which only reason alot might have forgotten is because it is not used if it were truly not a support spec it would have been giving the greatsword that vindicator got to deal power dps. On top of all this the shields skills are very supportive there is a block and a heal that can heal allies i believe might be wrong as i forgot as i myself dont even use it because of how lame the shields are for pve and the direction trying to make herald the wanna be power dps that does more than vindicator ever could as dps by providing way more boons/utility and cc and yes am talking about stability too as herald is way better for providing that where as using on vindicator is just troll your best bet with vindicator is to be a dps bot and just do dmg and nothing more for the most part which is why is kind of weak imo all other specs even damage ones at least provide something of use meanwhile vindicators utility is locked behind victor which is never used on dps as that is troll.
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9 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
No, I didn't mean you. Regardless, you continue to claim that Vindicator was supposed to be purposed for DPS; that's simply not it's concept so the claim is contradictory. What seems evident is that It's unlikely to ever be purposed for DPS now. Second patch in a row Anet is chopping it's DPS in competitive modes ... and why? For the reason I said before that would never be a DPS primary purpose: because of it's Alliances Legend duality.
It is the Power dps spec of rev since you got herald for support, ren for condi, and vindi for power but one thing i do agree on is alliance is the reason the class is held back it needs more in the kit then it currently has is to weak for a dps spec with trade offs for no reason other then alliance existing blue side i mean it has invisible trade offs for a dps spec that doesnt even make use of the blue side for having said trade offs... which is really bad imagine if every other class had the same horrid utility/cc and mediocre dps for a clunky dual legend swap that dps players couldn't even make use of. Like if every other class had something similar im pretty sure the game would be dead and everyone would have quit.
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15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
I remember SOMEONE 😉 said Vindicator can't continue to exist with unbalanced Alliance sides. Looks like they were right. Here is the relevant quote from Anet's patch notes:
We'd like to see vindicator builds move into more offensive trait choices to make up for the loss in damage, instead of remaining a damage threat while focusing on defensive traits.
Completely agree that reverting back to 2 dodges ... ruined identity. Vindicator is now just a Revenant with access to 3 legends that can't be balanced easily due to the opposing nature and gameplay impact of Alliance legends.
Yeah was probably me if this is what you meant, I kept saying its a elite spec focused more on the dps side then heal, heal on it is just a bonus but it makes it so that vindicator never gets real utility/cc in its skill and because of it not being accessed so easily as a dps class its easily one of the worsts since the dps is just mediocre and not the top of the benchmarks so as of this post prolly above 44k or so but that wouldn't happen because people would cry about pvp and neither would it getting utility happen because yay blue side exists and is super clunky and worthless when on dps. So yeah imo vindicator is still just a meme but who knows maybe one day it will get addressed and fixed. So yeah the class was supposed to be purposed for dps as its main thing and fails epically at it since its glass cannon and does less then most other specs especially since its mele and power aka dead epsec for awhile, may as well call it herald of the past when people forgot herald existed.
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Tbh I expect that vindicator will not get fixed as did herald which took 7 years to address. In my opinion vindicator is going to stay buggy/clunky useless and many other things as its damage trade offs for being a mele power class is laughable with hardly any utility/cc the class is and was a straight mess but who knows maybe miracles do happen? Mainly comparing vindicator to any other dps spec it fails epically at being anything worthwhile except a meme since other specs offer more utility or cc for example want cc or utility as a firebrand or mesmer virtuoso mirage w/e you play thief necro etc can just slot random skill in \o/ wow cc utility achieved for hardly any trade off... meanwhile if you want to do decent dps as vindicator options are camp gs aka no utility/cc or gs/sw/sw basically same thing oh but then yeah take staff or use blue side saint victor well rip your dps you may as well have just trolled w/e group your in. So yeah In Conclusion the class is a mess and unless it is one of the top dps since its lacking in a lot or it gets actual useable utility/cc with similar benchmark numbers then the class is just a meme till then... but hey if asked if its fun sure concept wise feels fun but fun only lasts so long if it feels bad playable wise in groups etc fun at killing adds sure.. open world sure... content that needs teamwork yeah may as well say "hi am troll dps when joining groups.. or memedicator"
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yeah maybe soulbeast or thief gets nerfed same with catalyst and mesmer but who knows
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Yeah Your right with meme tier just look at vindicator its nothing but meme tier at this point
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8 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:
@X Anthony A.8409I certainly didn't misunderstood what I said. There isn't a problem if Vindicator isn't where people think it should be in terms of damage. It's not unexpected or unreasonable that given the number of specs, some of them simply won't provide the level of performance some people want for endgame content. It's been clear for the entire history of this game that endgame content isn't the only consideration in Anet's design approach for especs.
The part I like is where Vindicator just got a 10% DPS buff in the last patch which is exactly "the DPS bump" people were saying it needed to fix this problem ... how's that going for y'all? Again ... Vindicator will NOT compete as a DPS team spot with its current dual-legend design.
Correction that is not the dps bump people were saying it needed but rather the dps bump it got many were rev players were calling it weak as a bump since its lacking all over a class with nothing else but pure dps should be benching harder then that as i stated before 40k or so unless it gets more utility or cc in its skills or traits. So either needs more utility/cc or actually more damage increase for anyone to actually feel like playing the spec but tbh there are other problems with it too as its clunky to play and a bit buggy which still hasn't been fixed
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On 8/28/2022 at 11:06 AM, Obtena.7952 said:On 8/28/2022 at 11:06 AM, Obtena.7952 said:
The take away here is that we have the philosophy of play how we want. But the idea that every spec being desirable in a team is not even reasonable at this point, even with roles. There are 27 especs, there are 10 spots in a team. The bandwidth just isn't there.
What we DO get is being able to be use any spec we want to be successful in endgame content ... and that's not just my view. That's how the game has always worked. The fact is that in a game where there are optimal options ... there are options that MUST NOT be optimal.
I Believe you misunderstood what you said. every class Must be optimal that isn't to say that they all will be the top as that's not physically possible statistically speaking, but as it is right now a class that gives off nothing and is pure dps aka "vindicator" shouldn't be where it is in terms of damage. Vindicator being a pure selfish dps elite specialization should be top dps in my opinion or one of the top since it does not even provide crowd control and no before you say it staff does not count as that is a support weapon that lowers an already low selfish undesirable dps specialization in the first place so yeah no, no one would take that just to make up for the lack of crowd control and lower dps on a class thats mediocre at best if that. So basically classes that are pure selfish/offer nothing and based on how little they offer shouldn't have trade offs in terms of damage and since vindicator has nothing but pure selfishness on its dps side i don't see why at minimum it's not pulling 40k in the least other then that it needs either a damage increase or more utility/cc baked into its kit for it to even see any play otherwise that class will be forgotten about and dead.
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On 8/23/2022 at 3:58 PM, Aeolus.3615 said:
Vindicator also can have perma quickness yet no one cares, on a more serious note the main issue with vindicator is Viktor legend.
It is just most players are blinded to everything that puts a ton of conditions on target with low effort or anything that has lots of boons if team share the better, since game is already overloaded with boons.
no one goes perma quickness on vindi because the skill takes 3/4seconds to cast and its not a thing because it doesn't provide enough quick for it to be worth putting stats into for so it feels wack to even use and the dps isnt good on vindicator for the it being a pure selfish class not even with the changes it needed to be 40k min or 45k dps for it to be worth playing since it has no utility or cc
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10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:
So I'm asking you how much DPS Vindicator needs to be competitive and where it should be added on the spec ... and you want to have an argument about weapon coefficients. 😆(and for the record, I didn't say GS was the highest, I just said it was one of the highest. It's certainly not low so)
Get back on topic here. These references you make to bugs and clunky play ... we aren't talking about that here. IF Vindciator needs DPS to be competitive, how much DPS is that and where on the spec is it added?
the topic of this post if not mistaken is "please anet dont forget about vidicator" so telling me to get back on topic is kind of you derailing since the post was about whats wrong with vindicator which is on topic since the class being buggy/clunky relates to not forgetting about what's wrong with vindicator, so yes please stop trying to derail the post for your own safety, thanks.
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29 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:
This thread isn't a discussion about what I know because clearly, that matters little to anyone anyways. ...and yes, if you look at the base stats on the GS, it's one of the highest. I'm talking about it's coefficients.
Again I'm asking YOU how much DPS you need to be competitive and where to add that on Vindicator. There is no discussion about Anet buffing DPS on Vindicator if people can't answer these questions.
coefficients wise ranger double axe hits way harder so clearly that's not true but either way speculation if the spec remains the same or gets worse it will not be played and its played very little for good reason. Part of the reason's Vindicator is not played is it feels bad to play too clunky, too many bugs, weak non existing elite skills and alot of randomness in damage unless on very very large hitbox so who wants to play that? not many
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37 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:
I'm going to throw this back at you then ... where is your suggestion for how Anet actually increases Vindicator DPS to be competitive for teaming? Give it Fury/25 might/quickness and full vuln stacks? Oh it's already got all those things with 100% uptime. Strike 1. Give GS more DPS? GS is ALREADY one of the HIGHEST DPS weapons that exists in the game. Strike 2.
How much DPS is needed for Vindicator to be competitive DPS? I don't even think you know.
you clearly don't know anything about the spec then if your saying its one of the Highest dps weapons, Greatsword for vindicator skill 5 its most powerful skill eternity's requiem struggles to hit 50k sometimes unless very large hitbox then it can hit for maybe 70-80k meanwhile axe on soulbeast can hit for 120k yea totally one of the highest's, i dont think you even know what the classes damage is by the way you answered
PS: it's ok most of us that play rev will probably forget the spec exists like how herald was for a long time -
1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:
Being 'super selfish' DPS doesn't mean it needs to do competitive DPS in teams. It's actually the opposite. Conceptually, Super selfish DPS isn't about co-operation and sharing; it's selfish. I guess Anet took that to the practical level also because these kinds of selfish DPS builds tend to do poorly in teams. To be good selfish DPS builds, they are typically already front loaded with all the DPS buffs that a team could offer, so they don't benefit much from the collective team buff. Reaper suffers from the exact same thing.
I know this will rub you the wrong way but I would even go so far as to nerf self buffs on Vindicator so they have bandwidth in the class to improve it's team DPS. They simply don't have anywhere they can 'add' DPS to Vindicator for being a team without affecting it when it's not.
It's not a problem that Vindicator is last. Someone has to be. Being last is not a reason to buff Vindicator DPS. Besides, the competition for getting a team as a DPSer is too full. It's not the right approach to make Vindicator attractive to a team.
Good reply. I don't even think removing something from the support side would give wiggle room to make Vindicator attractive to a team in terms of a pure DPS position.
See, that's the problem with the idea in this thread. Being more team friendly with the current spec design by adding a whole bunch of DPS to it is just unlikely to be a solution here. There are lots of reasons why. Some people just want to ignore these reasons and just get more DPS, probably because they don't actually care about solving the problem the OP is talking about.
Yes nerf the class because its definitely played quite a bit for it being too strong good answer, maybe then less will play it then it already being well played by not many good thing we should nerf a dead elite spec :)
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Ok you must not read the traits i guess so lemme post it then, "Empire Divided" - Gain Increased Power while above the health threshold. Gain increased healing power when below it. Health Threshold 50%, Power +240 Healing Power +240. "Death Drop" - Drop from above delivering a massive strike on the focused area. Damage: Power, Applies 10 stacks of vulnerability, Forerunner of death (15s): + 15% damage. "Leviathan Strength" - Deal increased damage while your endurance is not full: Damage increase +10%. Tenacious Ruin: Instead of dodging, deliver a powerful blow from above, striking foes when you hit the ground. Dodging costs all of your endurance and can only be executed at full endurance. Damage: Power , Endurance cost: 100%, number of targets 5, Radius: 240.
So yes please do enlighten me how is this not power? Does this look like condi to you? i dont see condition damage in there nor do i see condition vindicators? so yes its not a condi spec it's a power spec with no good elite skill, weak cc, and weak dmg for the lack of utility for the dps side of the class.-
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quit lying to yourself the weapon is power only greatsword is power and traitline is power focused. but yeah by the nonsense your saying its equivalent to saying warrior got buffed in the last patch banner change was amazing basically thats how you think XD
PS. yes its the only pDPS spec for rev because last i checked shortbow is for condi and shield is support aka herald and renegade what is greatsword a healing weapon to you? good joke-
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it is true your just blind and dont play the spec so why are you here just to be a troll be gone if thats your only reason of being here bye bye now
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you must acknowledge that "Vindicator" is revenants only power dps spec hence the "Greatsword" which is focused on power dps with the elite spec weapon being that and "Herald" something you didnt realize existed i guess is the "Support" focused spec while "Renegade" is the condi focused spec hence the "Shortbow", sure vindicator has a healing side to it if you wanted to play support but thats not the main focus rev has "Herald" for support spec hence the "Shield" as the elite spec weapon even though yea its not used thats the support class so incase you didnt know since you dont seem like you play revenant theres the info
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but warrior quickness is fine not sure what your talking about equality would destroy class identity? are you confused or something?
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I Guess you dont even know what vindicator is, its in the spec bud the traits say +240 power for one of the small traits in vindicator traitline and also it has greatsword something you either didnt read or forgot because you clearly dont understand vindicator at all so why are you posting as you do when you don't, maybe learn to read?
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Vindicator is classified as the Power DPS of rev, The Elite spec weapon of Herald for example is shield because its the classified support spec of rev, renegade is Shortbow which is hybrid but focused on condi so its the condi focused spec, and Vindicator is Greatsword which is focused on "Power DPS" so its the power DPS class for rev and yea its really clunky in many ways still and still feels super weak for it being a selfish power DPS
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@Obtena.7952 was reading your replies and clearly you lack understanding of what a revenant is, because a espec shouldnt do 25k dps small hit box as a selfish dps class thats not a prob with rev needing a role assigned thats a prob with vindicator needs numbers tuning its clearly needing the treatment ranger got and you clearly dont understand that though especially if you look at base rev only ranged weapon hammer for pve thats a legit joke and a half if it got the buffs mech did with rifle now where talking with hammer :) or something to make it viable since its the only ranged option for rev to use with herald or vindicator
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On 6/25/2022 at 1:29 AM, otto.5684 said:
Vindicator does more damage than DH and Reaper in PvE. You could argue that DH is better. Reaper is not by any means. Neither is any mesmer power dps, as they all lack consistency.
I dont know what you mean Vindicator isnt consistent and has alot of randomness baked into it with skill 5 eternity's requim, also power mesmer virtuoso actually out performs vindicator and virtuoso is supposed to be a condition spec... by design so yeah thats kind of sad, also damage wise since vindicator is a mele spec with no option for ranged you might disagree but i believe the class should hit for 45k benchmark for the dps side of vindicator since its purely a power dps spec with selfish boons that you get from support specs anyways, since i heard that on small hitbox for example it does 25k barely.. and this makes no sense tbh i feel like this spec can be compared to how herald dps was people shamed it and mocked you for playing it cuz it didnt do that good of damage in raids for a dps spec and basically groups didnt want you etc.. basically i see people being hostile towards players just playing vindicator in content like cm fractals, etc, this class i feel needs major fixing sadly. Also the elite skill for Archemorus feels really unrewarding to use and in some ways feel like your missing an elite skill, plus the whole thing with being hit mid dodge doesnt feel right feels more or less like other classes that have dodges actually have a huge advantage.
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5 hours ago, Hooglese.4860 said:
Alright, this is a big list of feedback. I get that I'm yelling into the void but sometimes that's good for the soul.
Core Mechanic (Dodge)
The change to the dodge is interesting because it works for rev due to all of the professions defensive options from weapon skills, however there's a lot to be desired. The grandmaster traits changing the endurance count and ability is an interesting idea but I don't think it works due to the way the game's been designed. Some things in the game simply must be dodged or you die and you want to be not dodging as long as possible so the choice that gives you more frequent, shorter dodges is going to be the best choice.
I think the idea of having 3 choices is fun though, although Vassals of the Empire fills the same role as Forerunner of Death and there's going to be an objectively best option between these two option. Vassals of the Empire could be a mobility or condition damage oriented dodge since the others are damage and defence. Ex: You move 50% faster while dodging.Skills
- Alliance Tactics/Energy Meld (F2): This is a poorly implemented ability. It has a cast time, moderate cost and long cooldown to gain 50 energy for your 50-150 energy pool. This ability should have both cost and cd however it shouldn't have a cast time since dodging is something that you need to do in an emergency. It would also be nice if it filled your endurance for a variable cost depending on your max endurance but that's not happening.
Energy meld and Alliance Tactics should also be separated. When you're in the alliance stance you might need the energy for the dodge but don't want to swap skills and vice versa. It would also fix the CD issue with Leviathan Strength.
Greatsword:
The base criticism of it is that it's damage is low and while that's true, its also lacking the defence and control options that other weapons provide. It would be nice if phatom's onslaught provided vigor at the cost of more energy.
- The auto attack chain is literally just the reapers and that' s disappointing.
- Phantoms Onslaught (3): The visuals of the skill are almost non-existent. You run forward with a mist filter over you then you do a basic swing. There are enough visuals for greatswords in the game that this is just lazy. The distance charged is also quite slow in comparison to the other options revenants have at their disposal.
- Imperial Guard/Truestrike (4): The visuals for Truestrike are also extremely lacking. It's just a normal attack. The cost and cooldown of this ability is also far too high.
- Eternity's Requiem (5): I'm unsure if this was just for me but the circles were almost invisible to see. Not as a defender but as an attacker.
Legendary Alliance:
The stance is Assassin Stance stapled onto Centaur Stance which might be the worst combination of stances you can take. Being an all in aggressor then switching to a self-sacrificing, all-in healer doesn't work because the latter requires you to get out of harms way which you can't do. I thought briefly of the profession as a tanky type however the Saint Viktor skills actively harm the Vindicator. This might be the worst part of the profession and needs to be looked at, if not fully reworked. Many other's have said that Saint Viktor shouldn't be heal support skill set and I agree.
- Selfless Spirit/Selfish Spirit: These two heal abilities are by far the worst in the profession. The long cast time is pointlessly cruel because it opens you up to being interrupted, and since its a channel, the CD goes on full cd. The choice to make it a 10s cd is interesting but the heal is simply too ineffective and shouldn't be a long channel or at least it should provide stability.
- Nomad's Advance/ Battle Dance (6): Nomads Advance is too short of range and the cooldown is too long.
- Scavenger Burst/Tree Song (7): These two skills are interesting but again they're really weak with high energy costs for very little pay off. Tree song should also provide Vigor instead of regeneration since there is a vigor trait but no way in Alliance stance to gain it.
- Reaver's Rage/Awakening (8): Again, weak. The stability given is so small that it's not noticeable. Awakening should also provide stability to all allies as well as yourself.
- Spear of Archemorus/ Urn of Saint Viktor: These elite skills are abysmal. The spear doesn't pierce and does such little damage that it's not worth casting. The Urn is maybe the worst ability in GW2. It costs health, 10 upkeep and you cant heal while its active. On top of that you have to succeed at a 1s cast time to disable it, all for a mild heal and resistance. There should not be a cast time to negate such a heavy cost that you impose on yourself. I understand that requires a rework and we won't see that but in it's current state it's baffling. It requires you to be in the front line but not take damage or get disabled, which is what happens when your in the front line.
Traits
The GM are the core mechanic so I won't go over them again.
- Leviathan Strength: This talent requires you to be in Alliance Stance but is really good. If they split Alliance Tactics and Energy Meld then this would be a well made talent.
- Amnesty of Shing Jea: This talent is competing with Leviathan Strength for the same slot but both are only boosting Alliance Stance. The boons should also be swapped because Luxon skills are violence oriented and Kurzick are heal oriented. As it is though, it's a mediocre trait but either it or Leviathan Strength should be put into the major line. That or rework this one.
- Reaver's Curse, Angsiyan's Trust and Song of Arboreum. All these talents increase your endurance pool without changing your play style. One will always be the best option and at the moment Song of Arboreum is winning.
- Angsiyan's Trust: This trait shouldn't give allies any endurance and give the vindicator more. The debuff shows that there's a potential for a problem so why not just make it give a large amount of energy to the Vindicator? Ideally, again, full rework because of point 3.
- Song of Arboreum: This is a really good trait and a really good idea for Vindicator. However there is no vigor in the Vindicator specialization outside of this trait. I get that Vigor is a strong boon but there are a lot of places that it could be placed. (Any of the greatsword skills, replace it with the other strong boons in the Kurzick skills).
- Vassal of the Empire: Again, this needs to be fully reworked. Forerunner and this are going to be contention for the same role in the same slot. Ideally, it should give superspeed and chill on land for a more PvP oriented GM trait.
- TLDR: There's promise here but the spec is weak and messy. Numbers need to go up and traits/skills need to be tightened up.
I agree that the spec does feel weak and numbers need to go up would like to see this class hitting at least 40k dps to be on par with its condition spec renegade as herald = support renegade = condition, and what is vindicator suppose to be i thought mainly power focused as rev lacks a power elite spec wep and build
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On 9/22/2021 at 9:26 PM, Barraind.7324 said:
I have to find links for it again, but the last update I saw was
Shiro/Dorf - 31k
Alliance/Shiro - 29.5k
really because i tried youtubing vindicator benchmark and nothing comes up, but ele and warrior benchmarks exist, meanwhile all you hear is people upset about willbender when it benchmarks at 37k dps and yet revenant still doesn't have a good power dps class if 30k is its actual benchmark that is pretty sad
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Feb 3 preview for rev
in Revenant
Posted
It is not solid in PvE at all it does decent damage sure.. but it is a major hindrance to playing in a team. take for example 3 power dps vindicators in a raid like samarog where cc is needed if the vindicators don't slot staff aka rip dps, the class is literally trolling the group on samarog for the cc part of it hence why you'll never see 3 of them in that fight at once. Like the class has major utility/cc issues as relying on staff is not and shouldn't be necessary for going dps as your role isn't to play support like alac ren or quick herald. So yes its lacking compared to every other spec sadly.