[Virtuoso][PvE and PvP] My feedback, perceived issues and some proposals

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Introduction

I hereby present my feedback on the Virtuoso elite specialisation for the mesmer class. I will be mostly talking from a PvE perspective with some minor PvP sprinkled in (as far as my limited PvP knowledge allows me that is). Before the BETA begun, I considered the Virtuoso to be in the best/most finished state out of the three elite specs. After playing it and trying things, I still think this is the case, but not by as much of a margin as I thought. Harbinger 100% needs the most work in every department in my opinion, that is for sure. And where Willbender imo needs the most adjustment to numbers and animations and slightly less so to its spec traits, I feel Virtuoso is the one that needs less adjustments to its animations, but the most changes to its traits.

 

The PvE DPS numbers:

The power damage is completely fine, with it benching something like 41-42k+. Condi Virtuoso is not a thing outside of some bugged PvP confusion memes. I am of the opinion that the Condi part of Virtuoso should either be removed or merged with existing traits (see the traits section) to help make some room for more interesting options, since its currently not leading anywhere, and if it did it would be stepping hard on the toes of Mirage.

Possible issue with the theme: 

The theme in essence is something I actually have zero problems with. Clones becoming blades that you stack and don’t disappear when your original target dies is pretty cool. An illusionary blade wielder is a nice idea, no complaints. But it could use some more of a unique identity through traits and weaponry, right now Virtuoso to me often feels like I am playing power/bursty core mesmer, just now with higher numbers and more pink AoE.

Possible issue with the Mechanic:
Blades as a core idea are fine, but I have issues with the way it interacts with traits. I will elaborate on this in the traits section. Something that could use a tweak is activation time. Shatter were instant. If making Bladesongs instant is not an option at least reduce the casting time. It feels clunky, slow and unfun. Also, the fact that almost everything this spec puts out is a reflectable projectile is a problem for PvP. Virtuoso should at least get some unblockable/unreflectable windows, either through base class design or through traits.

 

I am also unsure if the change from clones into blades is enough. Other than a resource change, F1 is still power damage, F2 is still condi,  F3 is still control, and F4 is still defense. If it is possible some more unique shatters might be nice. F4 serves the same goal as the original skill, but does put its own spin to it by becoming a block that pulses damage. I feel the F4 should serve as an example for the other bladesongs flavourwise.

 

If there is a chance for Virtuoso’s F1 to F3 to get a similar type of treatment that would in my opinion do wonders for the distinctiveness of the class. The damage on the F4 is very low, but I assume that is because even with the functionality change the skill is still meant to be defensive in nature and not offensive.

As a closing overall note: I understand that bladesongs having a casting time is a trade-off when compared to instant shatters, but I think they could benefit from less casting time than they have now, for me it really interrupts the flow of combat.

Possible issue with the dagger skills:
I think they are fine as an idea, but as mentioned before, the projectile component on dagger and on bladesongs severely locks your options in any form of PvP environment. The weapon as a whole could use some flavour, right now its just damage, damage, and some more damage.

 

Proposals:

1.     Dagger skill 3 (Unstable Bladestorm) could use something unique, else the entire toolkit on dagger is just ‘damage’ and nothing more. Perhaps this skill could be ground-targetable and inflict cripple/chill or block/reflect attacks in addition to its current behaviour? I think that would help PvP Virtuoso a lot while at the same time giving the dagger moveset some flavour.

 

2.     In the same vein, dagger 2 (Bladecall) could in my opinion also use a secondary effect aside from damage and stock blade. Perhaps cripple per thrown blade?

 

Possible issue with artwork of utility skills and traits:  

The Virtuoso trait and skill icons look the best to me out of the three revealed specs. You can clearly see it is a mesmer icon, and there is enough detail for it not to feel out of place. I do think some of the utility skills could use a slightly more unique artwork, I see a bit more overlap than I’d like here (and something like the elite looks like its a re-used Chronomancer icon of sorts).

 

Proposal:
Give this a touch-up before release and give the elite an icon worthy of its status.

 

Possible issues with Utility skills:
I feel like the utility skill Rain of Swords and the elite skill Thousand Cuts are just way to similar to each other. Both are a pulsing AoE that requires the target to remain stationary,the only big differences are one also applying vulnerability and the other doing more damage/pulsing faster. I would honestly prefer one of these two get changed to do something more unique.

 

Sword of decimation I feel could use a smaller damage bonus for hitting targets under soft cc ( something like 25% maybe).

Another thing that I see as an issue is that the utility kit is very one-dimensional. It all does damage, and the few things that don’t have long recharges to the point it doesn’t really make them viable in PvE or PvP.

 

A few possible Proposals/ideas:

1. Give the elite skill something that allows it to have an identity of its own so it does not feel like Rain of Swords 2.0. Perhaps allow the AoE to be moved/retargeted 1-3 times with a flip-over skill, or allow it to slowly follow the Virtuoso's target, or give it a unique effect upon ending/with each hit (cripple maybe)?

 

2. Or allow the elite to follow the Virtuoso’s target’s movements as it channels? That would partially solve the problem of “sidestep, gg no damage” it suffers from currently outside of chaining it with something like Sword of Decimation’s 4s immobilize ( that and the hitbox being a bit wonky. It sometimes hits further than the animation suggests, and other times the visual shows a target being hit, but no damage is being dealt).

 

3. Psychic Force and Blade Renewal could probably both do with a reduction in cooldown, especially for PvP environments. If Virtuoso is meant to be a duelist, you need something more than a stunbreak on a 45s cooldown or a 3s blur on a 60s cooldown.

 

4. The Virtuoso kit could really use some tools to either increase its own mobility or hamper their enemies. Either through some personal superspeed or the ability to cripple or chill foes. If Chronomancer was meant as the “dump things on you and their allies and threaten to do it again” spec, and Mirage was meant as the “Now you see me...now you don’t and here are a million conditions” spec, then it is clear that Virtuoso is meant as a “haha, come at me bro!” spec.

 

But right now you just don’t want them to come at you at all, because if they get to you its pretty much over. Cripple, Chill, superspeed, hell Immobilize on some key utilities outside of sword of decimation could work...at least something to allow Virtuoso to keep people off them.

 

Possible issues with Traits in general:
The traits are my BIG problem with Virtuoso at the moment.
I am not denying its effectiveness, as it stands it is a great power DPS that benches 41-42k+.
But almost none of the traits promote active play or change the way you play.
Most traits are passive damage modifiers/do things automatically and often lack something special. As a result, the majority of Virtuoso gameplay to me felt like I was playing core mesmer, just without clones and some shiny purple things attached to it once in a blue moon.

 

In addition, like the other two BETA specs it seems like Virtuoso tries to do everything at once.
It tries to be a PvP duelist, it tries to be a PvE power DPS, and it also tries to be a PvE Condi DPS with awkward bleeding traits tacked on to it.
One or Two out of these as a focus is fine, but Three is honestly a no-go for me.

Part of the charm of our current elite specs (for me) is that you have the spec focus on 1 or 2 roles, and then through traits have multiple ways of reaching that goal.
Currently you have 3 roles, and only one way to achieve each role, since it is obvious what trait to pick for each, with none of the traits being very exciting or promoting the active play I feel is needed.

 

Some generic proposals before going into details:

I really feel that condi related traits have to go. It feels like it doesnt fit the power DPS theme most of Virtuoso seems to have. Its damage is also very lackluster right now (outside of bugged confusion pvp oneshot memes). It also cannot compete with condi Mirage in any way in its current state, and imo it shouldn’t. There is no real way of making the mostly Bleed focus on Virtuoso compete with the Torment+Confusion+Burn from Mirage.

 

Let Mirage stay the stealthy/ambushy condi spec, let Chronomancer be the tanky/supporty/some long wind-up power spec, and let Virtuoso be a mix of bursty/quick wind-up power DPS and PvP duelist that makes you feel like you entered a scene out of the ‘House of Flying Daggers’ movie.

 

I think it would really be a lot better to either remove most condi traits completely, or partially roll them in with other existing traits, freeing up slots for traits that could give Virtuoso some rewards for active play and/or expand its unique identity (and by doing so into more unique gameplay).

 

Possible issues with Virtuoso specific traits:

 

Bladeturn refrain:

Probably mandatory in PvP, but not sure if it would be enough.

 

Proposal
Perhaps this trait could incorporate a cripple/chill/immobilize/superspeed component when performing certain actions?

 

Mental Focus:

Basic damage boost, that now forces you to play at half your maximum range. For PvE it doesnt matter because everyone stacks in melee for boons anyway, in PvP I can see this being very frustrating and another reason why no Virtuoso would ever pick this over Bladeturn Refrain (since Virtuoso is starved for active defenses there it seems).

 

Proposal 
In PvE I’d rather work for my DPS boost instead of it being something I get passively. We already have a passive DPS trait with Quiet Intensity already, one is enough.

Perhaps a stacking 1% damage bonus when we fire a blade? Or something akin to Kalla’s Fervor on Renegade that can be triggered through multiple actions, ranging from attacks, shatters, utility skills or positioning? I am really not arguing with the damageboost of this trait itself, but I do argue with how its completely passive.

Jagged Mind:
 If people agree that condi should go then this trait should probably go. Bleeding is pretty weak anyway, especially on a spec that cannot really stack thát much of it. The premier condi options are burning and torment right now, and Mirage fills this niche perfectly (and comes with a relatively engaging rotation and gameplay on the axe variant).

 

Proposal
I would strongly either completely remove this or merge this with Deadly Blades so it doesnt take up a valuable trait slot (which can then be used for something more fun/unique/active) but can still fuel Bloodsong.

Deadly Blades:
 After *Illusion of Vulnerability, Rending Shatter, Dazzling,*  almost every sword skill, *Mantra of Pain, Phantasmal Warden, Phantasmal Warlock*, Virtuoso’s own *Rain of Swords* AND *Mirrorblade* on GS, does mesmer really need ANOTHER source of vulnerability? Perhaps people with more mesmer experience can shed some light on this, but I feel vulnerability isn’t that high on our priority list.

 

Proposals

1. I really feel this slot could be used for something better and/or more creative. Perhaps allow weapon swapping to stock a blade and/or shoot a blade?

 

2. Or gain a blade when you kill something, and gain additional blades if you kill more foes within a certain time (grab blades back from bodies to recycle and use again idea)?

 

3. Or if you want to be very boring, perhaps tie some might generation here, Virtuoso seems to have trouble generating might on its own.

 

4. Or merge some of these ideas together with the current Jagged Mind trait. So you get vuln+bleed, or vuln+bleed+might, or bleed+might, or something unique with some of the aforementioned ideas.

Duelist's Reversal:
This trait seems PvP oriented, but from my own experiences and from what I gathered by asking around, the boons currently aren’t extremely impactful.

 

Proposal
I am wondering if this trait could perhaps incorporate some condition cleansing or transfer, currently Virtuoso’s kit has no way of effectively doing this. And while I understand every spec should have weaknesses, there is a difference between “It’s harder for me to deal with X” and “I cannot deal with X at all”.

 

Phantasmal Blades:

DPS increase with the most minimal of flavour. The go-to trait for PvE. But its nothing more than an additional damage packet that you have to do nothing for. Yet another illustration of my issues with Virtuoso: So much of the traits are passive and mostly a number increase. It works, but its not very engaging.

Sharpening Sorrow:
If people agree that condi should go then this trait should go.

 

Proposals

1. Perhaps we could have a trait that enhances Psionics or dagger in a unique manner?  Currently Virtuoso has nothing that interacts with Psionics or its dagger.

 

2. Or perhaps this could grant ethereal fields to Psionics and some other Virtuoso tools and perhaps give it a unique interaction with those fields?

 

Quiet Intensity:
A single basic damage increase trait is okay. It feels like the “A percentage of X gets added to Y” trait design that also plagues the other BETA specs, merged with Revenant’s Roiling Mists trait. Could be worse, but once again: Completely passive and thus boring. One of these per spec is okay, but I really think either this or Mental Focus could use a redesign to reward you for more active play.

 

Psychic Riposte

For a Grandmaster this honestly doesn't do much. If you want blade generation you take Bloodsong (which right now is the only Grandmaster that actually benefits you), and if you want damage you also take Bloodsong (because the blade that you shoot has crap damage). This trait is an annoyance at best.

 

Proposal
Either scrap it or make the blade it shoots do more damage or have a secondary effect worthy of a grandmaster slot.

Infinite Forge: 
You would think this is the go-to power trait, but Bloodsong outperforms it hard for blade generation. And considering blade generation is all this trait does, and only under a threshold... it could  use a BIG buff or a functionality change, because nobody is going to take this over Bloodsong. Even with the minimal amount of bleed you inflict when ignoring bleed specific traits, you generate more blades with Bloodsong than with this.

Bloodsong:
Is ironically better for power dps than Infinite Forge right now, despite looking like a condi trait at first glance. Considering you need to actively inflict bleeding for this trait to proc, it at least has some active play attached to it.

 

Proposal

Perhaps it could give an effect that makes the Virtuoso inflict X bleed on its next attack/action or its next X attacks/actions if they do Y or Z in addition to what it currently does (not much unlike the Sharpen Daggers enchantment from the Assassin in the first Guild Wars)? A lot of this suggestion depends on what would happen to Jagged Mind (removed or merged)and if it would put blade generation over the top or not.

 

Some general trait ideas to possibly make Virtuoso reward more active play and reduce its current passive trait design:

1.    Psionic skills stock a blade after use. And/or perhaps do some more immobilize? Immobilize feels like a Virtuoso thing to me, but it has low access to it outside of Sword of Decimation.

 

2.    The maximum amount of blades you can stock is increased (7).  Using a bladesong with the maximum amount of blades deals  increased critical damage OR shortens the bladesong’s recharge/refunds X amount of blades/ makes them unblockable.

 

3.    Gain a stacking damage bonus whenever you fire a blade. Duration: 15s. effect: 1% bonus damage or X amount of power/ferocity in a Kalla's Fervor sort of way. Reward us for actively doing SOMETHING.

 

4.    Your attacks can no longer be blocked or reflected, but can also no longer critically hit and ignore the effects of boons and conditions on both you and your target (A bit of a hommage to GW1 mesmer’s Illusionary Weaponry elite skill. That one really feels like it fits with Virtuoso, and gives a clear trade off. Not sure how viable or well thought-out this one is. Could be downright broken, or could be completely useless).

 

5.    Or perhaps a trait that actively decreases your max amount of blades (let’s say to 3), but somehow rewards you with boons/bigger effects per blade used/etc.

 

6.    A trait that gives ethereal fields or a field unique to Virtuoso to dagger 3 and Psionics, and let that field do something unique or a unique interaction? Be it with bleeds, with shooting/stocking blades or something else entirely.

 

Closing statement

Virtuoso’s theme is completely fine, Psionics have nice visuals, the idea behind blades and bladesongs is also fine, its power damage is fine, and dagger has serious potential. But its traits are a passive and boring mess and Psionics could use some refinements. At least to me.

I can see potential. But it’s not there yet. And considering how the most intricate part of its problems are (imo) bound to the passive traits it has, fixing it may be more complicated than it would seem at first glance.

I really think it could use a way to manage/manipulate blades or blade thresholds or increase/decrease your max blade count for some other bonuses, just so its not just 'stacked clones that now look like blades'.

Blade generation itself might become a bit more unique as well, just to help it to move away from it feeling a lot like core mesmer.

More interaction with blades, psionics, between these could go a long way.
Why does everything have to be so passive in this spec and specifically its traitline?

Make me want to actively play around with my amount of blades, change the max amount I can have, reward me for different amounts, tie blade generation to active gameplay, etc.

 

I feel that the spec could really use some complexity that rewards you for mastering it or for managing resources correctly.

I am not saying my solutions are the best or even good ones. But I hope they illustrate the issues I currently have with this spec.

 

Thank you for reading!

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Wielder Of Magic.3950

[glenndevis.8327]

I pretty much agree with most points. Especially the condi trait line. I get Anet wants the spec to be versatile but I don't think that's a good idea. Better have each spec have a "best" role. Players can still tweak their build based on what content they're running either way.

 

I personally love the dodge & block traits that Virtuoso has but they're quite weak. If Virtuoso is supposed to be a duelist, it's doing a bad job at it.

Bladeturn Refrain should give aegis at the start of the cast.

Psychic Reposte I love as a trait but the blade should have a LOT more damage. The current damage is downright useless.

I think a good way to change Duelist's Reversal is to give fury (forget quickness) and makes your next bladesong instant.

The trait would actually feel like a reversal.