QoL and build variety improvements for Harbinger

[Uete.3805]

Hi there! After playing Harbinger for several months (and loving it btw) I think some changes could improve the feel and build variety of the spec:

1. Show the Blight level over our health globe: This is a purely QoL and aesthetic improvement. Basically apply the UI for Druid's Astral force (in bright green of course) to keep track of how much Blight have we aquired, rather than putting it along the other boons and buffs. This would quickly and visually inform us of our level of blight and give the spec a special UI to further differentiate it from base necro.

2. Remove loosing Blight in Shroud: This change is the more significant of the two, but I wanted to know your opinion on it. Current PvE Harbinger runs with 3 elixirs so as to get to 20 blight before entering Shroud, allowing us to use Shroud 3 & 4 at their max capacity. Since using the empowered version of those skills removes 5 and 10 blight, respectively, we end up loosing blight in Shroud instead of gaining it (which feels wrong for some reason). I think it would make the spec more rewarding if those skills (Shroud 3 & 4) didn't consume blight, but still turned more powerful at higher blight stacks (let's say over 15 and 20/25 blight, respectively).

This change would solidify the risk/reward mechanic that Harbinger Shroud and Blight were supposed to accomplish by always increasing your Blight inside of Shroud while turning both the Shroud skills and the Blight associated effects (Healing over time, Condi or Power damage based on traits, lower max health) more consistent while on Shroud. We could still use the elixirs to remove Blight while outside of Shroud, of course. This change could also allow us to run with less than 3 elixirs while still maximizing damage, freeing a spot or two for other Necro utilities or other more utility based elixirs (looking at you elixir of Bliss and elixir of Ignorance).

Bonus 1. Could we get Harbinger Shroud 4 back to 900 units in PvE only? It was super fun to use in the first beta...

Bonus 2. Get a look at underwater Harbinger Shroud. Its 3rd & 4th skills are a mess.

Thanks for your time!

[Seuchenherbst.2746]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:01 PM, Uete.3805 said:

Bonus 2. Get a look at underwater Harbinger Shroud. Its 3rd & 4th skills are a mess

Amen. They really should fix this.

[Radina.6057]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:01 PM, Uete.3805 said:

Remove loosing Blight in Shroud

Thats the core of Harbingers rotation. Build up Blight. Consume Blight. If everything gets pulled of right, we are able to trigger two buffed Shroud 3 and 4s each cycle.

Getting rid of that would just turn Harbinger into another "press whatever button whenever its available to deal 90% Benchmark" Spec. We already got enough of those.

Ofcourse its unfortunate that you have to bring three elixirs, but you also dont lose anything by doing so. Harbinger comes with alot of CC. Vital Draw is close to as much Stunbar damage as the Flesh Golem and is ready whenever you enter your Shroud thanks to its low CD. You dont have access to value skills that hand anybody aegis, or stability either, because Harbinger doesnt come with those.

 

Harbingers problem is that his Elixirs are simply awkward to handle and infested with bugs. Having to manually aim at yourself is already huge turn off for a spell that needs to hit you no matter what to not screw up your rotation. Blight Stacks just randomly not being granted because of a whole list of nasty bugs is simply frustrating. Had an Invulnerable Target inside your Elixir AoE? Well, better luck next time. Stood inside a hitbox? Time to roll the dice to see if you get your Blight stacks or not.

[Uete.3805]

12 hours ago, Radina.6057 said:

Harbingers problem is that his Elixirs are simply awkward to handle and infested with bugs. Having to manually aim at yourself is already huge turn off for a spell that needs to hit you no matter what to not screw up your rotation. Blight Stacks just randomly not being granted because of a whole list of nasty bugs is simply frustrating. Had an Invulnerable Target inside your Elixir AoE? Well, better luck next time. Stood inside a hitbox? Time to roll the dice to see if you get your Blight stacks or not.

All the more reason to make Harbinger Shroud the main reliable source of blight accumulation. While the kit is quite self-reliant I oftentimes find myself wanting some more boon corrupt or pulls on my build. With the current rigid set up that means either not having enough Blight to fuel the Shroud abilities or leaving BiP behind (which might also be a bad idea DPS-wise).

Allowing shroud to be the main blight provider would open up buildcrafting and consolidate the spec in a higher risk-reward role without modifying the current rotation or feel. Keep the blight cleansing on the elixirs, so that you can react to riskier situations, rather than using them on cooldown because you need to build that blight.

Also, for pvp I've got this feeling that I'm never reaping the benefits (nor the danger) of blight simply cause I'm playing with one elixir and any blight on shroud is removed as soon as I use a mobility skill. I strongly feel the current iteration only allows for blight build up through elixirs, rather than the main shroud mechanic, which in the end it's the cause for the 3 mandatory elixirs in pve.

[Ludark.5732]

On 10/7/2022 at 1:46 PM, Uete.3805 said:

All the more reason to make Harbinger Shroud the main reliable source of blight accumulation. While the kit is quite self-reliant I oftentimes find myself wanting some more boon corrupt or pulls on my build. With the current rigid set up that means either not having enough Blight to fuel the Shroud abilities or leaving BiP behind (which might also be a bad idea DPS-wise).

Allowing shroud to be the main blight provider would open up buildcrafting and consolidate the spec in a higher risk-reward role without modifying the current rotation or feel. Keep the blight cleansing on the elixirs, so that you can react to riskier situations, rather than using them on cooldown because you need to build that blight.

Also, for pvp I've got this feeling that I'm never reaping the benefits (nor the danger) of blight simply cause I'm playing with one elixir and any blight on shroud is removed as soon as I use a mobility skill. I strongly feel the current iteration only allows for blight build up through elixirs, rather than the main shroud mechanic, which in the end it's the cause for the 3 mandatory elixirs in pve.

If you have elixirs cleansing blight there is no reason whatsoever to run them ever(or at least outside of very niche applications) over other utility skills in group based pve. After all why would you remove something that increases your damage output.

 

Harbinger is a very selfish dps spec, with how little utility it can bring(aside from quickness). But I think that's fine, not every spec needs to bring a lot utility, so long as the loss in utility is represented in higher numbers(dps wise). Besides seeing as actually providing utility currently requires dropping out of shroud, which you want to avoid doing. So you would either need to allow using utilities in shroud or remove the cooldown from dropping out of shroud, before even thinking about how many elixirs we currently need to run.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Ludark.5732