Lack of interaction between team mates in pvp - team play 0/10

[Bloadsoaked.6792]

I lately played a class shooter. The abilities of the classes benefited the team in regards of

1 healing2 amo3 invisibility4 combos with other attack abilties5 shielding6 speed7 change of the environment

It was really fun to interact and help team mates. when u play pvp in gw2, no one targets the marked foe, no one looks on the map or helps out. Very few abilities interact with team mates in a significant way to call it a real support. Ppl will now post "trololo" and count the 2-3 builds that are considered support. If there is no support mentality those builds do not matter, doesnt play a role in everyday pvp. you just co-exist. making it boring in comparison.

suggestion: give each class a SIGNIFICANT area (excluding yourself) or target heal, barrier with a short cd.

[Khailyn.6248]

I dont play shooters really, but the premise of your post seems to be to give every profession everything, which would dilute what makes each profession unique from each other. Besides, while they may be weak by todays standard team interactions do exist even if players dont know them/ take advantage of them.

1. majority of the professions have access to an aoe healing ability if not a single target healing ability which can affect teammates. Ranger healing trap, scourge's F4 traited with transfusion, warrior's shouts, engineer's healing turret/F1, etc. If professions had stronger versions or more of them it might create a bunker meta where people just huddle together and heal each other endlessly.
2. Ammo doesnt need to exist in a fantasy MMO. WoW had ammo with hunter arrows which filled bags upon bags and the idea was scrapped. If rangers, deadeyes, engineers had to deal with ammo I see them becoming less played because its a hassle. We have ammo for certain profession skills, lets leave it at that.
3. sigh... Invisibility is a very hot topic on these forums. Some love it, many others hate it. Mesmer stealthing, deadeye long duration stealthing, soulbeast worldly impacting out of stealth from smoke scale etc. I believe the popular opinion on this one is for stealth to get further nerfed somehow rather than have every profession have access to it. I'll leave it at that.
4. Ok.. combos. These already exist in the game and have since the start. Whirls , blasts, leaps through, projectiles through any field is a combo. Many players ignore them but I believe the best of players see these and use them effectively (even if in pve the only one they care about are fire and occasionally smoke for skipping). I'm not sure why these have fallen out of favor with players since core but it is what it is.
5. shielding (see Barrier). Scourge has it instead of healing, weaver has some , holosmith has some, not everyone needs it.
6. speed (see swiftness and superspeed). Practically every profession already has access to swiftness. Its the most common boon in the game to see next to might. There are also signets that grant increased movement speed, runes that as a set bonus gives increased movement speed. Nothing need to be changed here.
7. ok now this is the only point you make that I can agree with. In pvp yes you can destroy the clocktower, can destroy weapon racks, but I'm not sure how much further they can go with it. I suppose they could add a tree or two that if you break it, it'll fall over and land in the middle of a road blocking the path. If they ever make a new map that has small dams, maybe have those break to cause a flood. Or to take an example from draconis mons, throwing a cannonball into fire causing a chain reaction to destroy a tower in a firey explosion. Those could be cool.

Long and short of it. Majority of professions already have what you want (a heal, barrier etc). I think the issue is more about just player behavior. If players are treating it like a grind for rank ups whether they win or lose, you can't expect them to care about their teammates. The tools are there, but you cant make someone use them.

[Swagg.9236]

@"Khailyn.6248" said:I dont play shooters really, but the premise of your post seems to be to give every profession everything, which would dilute what makes each profession unique from each other. Besides, while they may be weak by todays standard team interactions do exist even if players dont know them/ take advantage of them.

1. majority of the professions have access to an aoe healing ability if not a single target healing ability which can affect teammates. Ranger healing trap, scourge's F4 traited with transfusion, warrior's shouts, engineer's healing turret/F1, etc. If professions had stronger versions or more of them it might create a bunker meta where people just huddle together and heal each other endlessly.
2. Ammo doesnt need to exist in a fantasy MMO. WoW had ammo with hunter arrows which filled bags upon bags and the idea was scrapped. If rangers, deadeyes, engineers had to deal with ammo I see them becoming less played because its a hassle. We have ammo for certain profession skills, lets leave it at that.
3. sigh... Invisibility is a very hot topic on these forums. Some love it, many others hate it. Mesmer stealthing, deadeye long duration stealthing, soulbeast worldly impacting out of stealth from smoke scale etc. I believe the popular opinion on this one is for stealth to get further nerfed somehow rather than have every profession have access to it. I'll leave it at that.
4. Ok.. combos. These already exist in the game and have since the start. Whirls , blasts, leaps through, projectiles through any field is a combo. Many players ignore them but I believe the best of players see these and use them effectively (even if in pve the only one they care about are fire and occasionally smoke for skipping). I'm not sure why these have fallen out of favor with players since core but it is what it is.
5. shielding (see Barrier). Scourge has it instead of healing, weaver has some , holosmith has some, not everyone needs it.
6. speed (see swiftness and superspeed). Practically every profession already has access to swiftness. Its the most common boon in the game to see next to might. There are also signets that grant increased movement speed, runes that as a set bonus gives increased movement speed. Nothing need to be changed here.
7. ok now this is the only point you make that I can agree with. In pvp yes you can destroy the clocktower, can destroy weapon racks, but I'm not sure how much further they can go with it. I suppose they could add a tree or two that if you break it, it'll fall over and land in the middle of a road blocking the path. If they ever make a new map that has small dams, maybe have those break to cause a flood. Or to take an example from draconis mons, throwing a cannonball into fire causing a chain reaction to destroy a tower in a firey explosion. Those could be cool.

Long and short of it. Majority of professions already have what you want (a heal, barrier etc). I think the issue is more about just player behavior. If players are treating it like a grind for rank ups whether they win or lose, you can't expect them to care about their teammates. The tools are there, but you cant make someone use them.

The guy is asking the exact opposite; OP wants classes to be hyper specialized so that they concretely contribute to a team composition rather than the low-effort, selfish, face-tank meta that dominates GW2. Also, given your immediate snap to a flavor-based argument against the generic concept of "ammo" which, in video game terms, effectively just means "resource," is pretty indicative of most players (and devs) in GW2: you don't principally think about the fundamental mechanics of the game, but rather default to looks before attempting to translate those aesthetics into game mechanics. That's how GW2 started shallow and only dried up further from that.Moreover, the guy was mostly just giving examples of how the example shooter game diversified player roles aside from "guy who shoots gun." None of them had to be taken literally, but again, most GW2 players jump to such conclusions.

• Combos are worthless/inconsequential except for blasts and stealth leaps. During the pre-beta era, Anet dropped loads of teaser trailers and video which featured a ranger doing Axe5 in the middle of an elementalist Focus(fire)4. That was their big, flashy draw: "LOOK AT THIS SICK COMBO, GUYS." Goes to show how much Anet really thought the combo system through when their big teaser trailer go-to was fire projectiles.
• Barrier is a horrendous version of generic "shielding" due to its typically selfish, passive/instant nature and it's very shallow mechanical behavior. Furthermore, it's another example of everyone getting a little of something that could have been used to define a single class.
• Speed in GW2 is an absolute joke. If any remotely well-conceived game, the speed of damage is carefully balanced with both player speed and environment construction. In the typical FPS (with bullets and what could be considered "normal" humans), the environment helps cope with the fact that bullets will obviously out-run players. In more Quake-like arena-shooters (Quake, UT, TF2, etc), player speed is metered carefully with damage speed, which leads to situations in which players can bunny-hop or rocket-jump faster than projectiles move in order to close in on targets or evade through areas with little cover. GW2 is the most low-effort and braindead game in how it associates player speed with player damage. Cover is essential, and if there is none, the game turns into Runescape, with all players unavoidably hitting their selected targets no matter what happens (there is no hope to escape via WASD on an open plane; not even zig-zagging helps due to how ridiculously fast ranged attacks connect). If certain classes had certain modes of movement that weren't scripted memes like teleports or fixed, short-range dashes that have an evade period slapped onto them, we might see some creative movement in GW2. Imagine, for instance, if mount movement was how players moved in GW2 baseline. Then we'd have an interesting means to see players move around a map.
• Anet isn't really capable or competent enough to make a map with a load of fair environmental hazards due to how clunky it is to make their game work. They'd have to individually rig up the respective hazards and also make them somehow play off of each other or limit each others' respective activations, and considering how GW2 has had a history of overworld "dynamic events" breaking down without warning, I wouldn't trust Anet to engineer a PvP map with anything so grandiose as something you described.

Point is that GW2 is shallow and tastelessly homogeneous in its combat designs. Every class is effectively just another shade of any other, and there is effectively no means of player expression in any given class "play-style" due to how scripted all of GW2's combat is. The OP just wanted real roles in the game rather than everyone just being a copy of each other; something that would certainly alleviate some of the core issues of GW2's flaws.

[Khailyn.6248]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@"Khailyn.6248" said:I dont play shooters really, but the premise of your post seems to be to give every profession everything, which would dilute what makes each profession unique from each other. Besides, while they may be weak by todays standard team interactions do exist even if players dont know them/ take advantage of them.

1. majority of the professions have access to an aoe healing ability if not a single target healing ability which can affect teammates. Ranger healing trap, scourge's F4 traited with transfusion, warrior's shouts, engineer's healing turret/F1, etc. If professions had stronger versions or more of them it might create a bunker meta where people just huddle together and heal each other endlessly.
2. Ammo doesnt need to exist in a fantasy MMO. WoW had ammo with hunter arrows which filled bags upon bags and the idea was scrapped. If rangers, deadeyes, engineers had to deal with ammo I see them becoming less played because its a hassle. We have ammo for certain profession skills, lets leave it at that.
3. sigh... Invisibility is a very hot topic on these forums. Some love it, many others hate it. Mesmer stealthing, deadeye long duration stealthing, soulbeast worldly impacting out of stealth from smoke scale etc. I believe the popular opinion on this one is for stealth to get further nerfed somehow rather than have every profession have access to it. I'll leave it at that.
4. Ok.. combos. These already exist in the game and have since the start. Whirls , blasts, leaps through, projectiles through any field is a combo. Many players ignore them but I believe the best of players see these and use them effectively (even if in pve the only one they care about are fire and occasionally smoke for skipping). I'm not sure why these have fallen out of favor with players since core but it is what it is.
5. shielding (see Barrier). Scourge has it instead of healing, weaver has some , holosmith has some, not everyone needs it.
6. speed (see swiftness and superspeed). Practically every profession already has access to swiftness. Its the most common boon in the game to see next to might. There are also signets that grant increased movement speed, runes that as a set bonus gives increased movement speed. Nothing need to be changed here.
7. ok now this is the only point you make that I can agree with. In pvp yes you can destroy the clocktower, can destroy weapon racks, but I'm not sure how much further they can go with it. I suppose they could add a tree or two that if you break it, it'll fall over and land in the middle of a road blocking the path. If they ever make a new map that has small dams, maybe have those break to cause a flood. Or to take an example from draconis mons, throwing a cannonball into fire causing a chain reaction to destroy a tower in a firey explosion. Those could be cool.

Long and short of it. Majority of professions already have what you want (a heal, barrier etc). I think the issue is more about just player behavior. If players are treating it like a grind for rank ups whether they win or lose, you can't expect them to care about their teammates. The tools are there, but you cant make someone use them.

The guy is asking the exact opposite; OP wants classes to be hyper specialized so that they concretely contribute to a team composition rather than the low-effort, selfish, face-tank meta that dominates GW2. Also, given your immediate snap to a flavor-based argument against the generic concept of "ammo" which, in video game terms, effectively just means "resource," is pretty indicative of most players (and devs) in GW2: you don't principally think about the fundamental mechanics of the game, but rather default to looks before attempting to translate those aesthetics into game mechanics. That's how GW2 started shallow and only dried up further from that.Moreover, the guy was mostly just giving examples of how the example shooter game diversified player roles aside from "guy who shoots gun." None of them had to be taken literally, but again, most GW2 players jump to such conclusions.

• Combos are worthless/inconsequential except for blasts and stealth leaps. During the pre-beta era, Anet dropped loads of teaser trailers and video which featured a ranger doing Axe5 in the middle of an elementalist Focus(fire)4. That was their big, flashy draw: "LOOK AT THIS SICK COMBO, GUYS." Goes to show how much Anet really thought the combo system through when their big teaser trailer go-to was fire projectiles.
• Barrier is a horrendous version of generic "shielding" due to its typically selfish, passive/instant nature and it's very shallow mechanical behavior. Furthermore, it's another example of everyone getting a little of something that could have been used to define a single class.
• Speed in GW2 is an absolute joke. If any remotely well-conceived game, the speed of damage is carefully balanced with both player speed and environment construction. In the typical FPS (with bullets and what could be considered "normal" humans), the environment helps cope with the fact that bullets will obviously out-run players. In more Quake-like arena-shooters (Quake, UT, TF2, etc), player speed is metered carefully with damage speed, which leads to situations in which players can bunny-hop or rocket-jump faster than projectiles move in order to close in on targets or evade through areas with little cover. GW2 is the most low-effort and braindead game in how it associates player speed with player damage. Cover is essential, and if there is none, the game turns into Runescape, with all players unavoidably hitting their selected targets no matter what happens (there is no hope to escape via WASD on an open plane; not even zig-zagging helps due to how ridiculously fast ranged attacks connect). If certain classes had certain modes of movement that weren't scripted memes like teleports or fixed, short-range dashes that have an evade period slapped onto them, we might see some creative movement in GW2. Imagine, for instance, if mount movement was how players moved in GW2 baseline. Then we'd have an interesting means to see players move around a map.
• Anet isn't really capable or competent enough to make a map with a load of fair environmental hazards due to how clunky it is to make their game work. They'd have to individually rig up the respective hazards and also make them somehow play off of each other or limit each others' respective activations, and considering how GW2 has had a history of overworld "dynamic events" breaking down without warning, I wouldn't trust Anet to engineer a PvP map with anything so grandiose as something you described.

Point is that GW2 is shallow and tastelessly homogeneous in its combat designs. Every class is effectively just another shade of any other, and there is effectively no means of player expression in any given class "play-style" due to how scripted all of GW2's combat is. The OP just wanted real roles in the game rather than everyone just being a copy of each other; something that would certainly alleviate some of the core issues of GW2's flaws.

First of all his post itself was largely generic and vague which could lead people to think a lot of things about what he was actually wanting. It just screams give more support. Not how, or why. Also everything you assumed about my post is completely wrong. My concept of AMMO had nothing to do with looks but mechanics. Supplies, cooldowns these are the ammo mechanics I was referring to. Rather than making the assumption my post was 'snap judgement, no thought given' perhaps you should look at yourself and your forum posts and that youre not doing so just to argue with people. All professions will never have singular specialized roles b/c it would direct impact every other game mode. You cannot have just 1 professions specializing in healing for example b/c then no one will take anything but it. Look at how chronomancers having a monopology on alacarity affects pve. Or druid with healing. They are an auto include into every raid group.

But its whatever, I could go over your other points but theres no point. You should nothing but pure disdain for the game and what the devs have done with it. I would be shocked if you even play it at all, but rather just come here to complain about it. The ops suggestion would never work but being aggressive and pessimistic wont help anything either.