Hey guys, today I want to expose the major flaws of the Deadeye spec and the rifle weapon. This thread is only focused to PvP so please if you want to discuss or analyze I beg you to talk about PvP and no other game modes.I've been playing Deadeye since friday and I've been having a lot of fun with a s/d build I made, but we all know this spec needs some drastically changes to be viable or at least an option for thieves in PvP.

Warning this will be a lot of text because I want to breakdown the entire spec, point out its major flaws, the changes it needs and supporting those changes.

@"Robert Gee.9246" said:So I was hesitating to respond to this since it's pretty late, but I think it's important for us to be clear on a few of these points.

We do read a lot of the feedback on these forums, but listening to feedback is not the same as acting on feedback. Additionally we do not have time to respond to every post on the forum. I'm responding to this on my own time after work and the reason we've actually had time to respond today to your replies is because we are in a "calm before the storm" situation right before the game launches. I don't expect that we'll have nearly as much time after the 22nd.

I think we can all agree that communication is important, but we can't spend our time here promising you that we are listening when we should be working to improve the game.

Okay now that that's out of the way here are a few thoughts:

• Cast time on Mark - Marking a target is intended as a commitment, and the added power of malice plus the refresh ability on kill afforded to Deadeye means that that some power balance needed to be made elsewhere.
• Moving Breaks Kneel - Kneel is intended to be a mode that requires forethought and planning, but we want to allow you to dodge roll when attacks come in. There are players that use doubletap to roll, so movement breaking kneel is not an option.
• Malice Generation Rate - Speed of Malice generation is something that ties very closely with Deadeye's power. We'd like to watch it more before making changes to it.

1. Mechanics

• Mark Cast TimeThis is an awful design, the fact you need to cast your mark to the target you lose any kind of suprise, you lose the sense of thief, thief is supposed to be agile, sneaky."Hey look I'm going to mark you and then attack you..." even with with 1500 range, it's too damn obvious and easy to read. Also everytime you renewal your mark you lose all the malice stack, this wouldn't be an issue if malice generation wasn't terrible slow, but it is and it needs to change.Robert or whoever is in charge of this elite spec, I don't care what you do or what you nerf but we need mark to be instant, there isn't another way for mark to compete against steal.Sorry but mark needs to be instant otherwise nobody will ever take this spec seriously in PvP. It also removes the stolen ability when mark ends, which is really annoying and it doesn't have any sense.
• KneelAnother mechanic that feels weird, clunky, annoying. The fact you need to press the same button to leave kneel makes your movement too slow and clumsy, it feels really good when you break kneel by swapping weapons but that's only each 9s.You can't say us that you will not change kneel because there are players that still use doubletap to roll...If you think a bit about it, when you want to dodge on kneel is because either you want to dodge an attack or you want to get a better position to shoot, in both cases you would want to be able to move after you dodge, I don't think anyone would love so stay on kneel after they dodge, it's so annoying.
• Malice RateThis is a good design, you stack malice while you do damage and while you have marked someone, right good. The execution on the other hand is bad, it's too damn slow for any fight you want to engage and finish it quick, fine you want us to be patient and wait for the malice stack to attack, well let me tell you that if we do that in PvP we would be dead before we even get the full stack.Simple fix, increase the malice generation rate. Also I don't know if is intended but you generate faster with rifle than any other weapon, if this is intended then it's a really bad design forcing people to use rifle as the main weapon kills the diversity the spec can offer, see Daredevil you can use staff, d/p, s/p and even s/d and all of them are good but it seems that with this spec you want us to only use rifle and delete the other weapons.

2. Deadeye Trait Line

In my opinion the traits on the Deadeye spec are really good, most of them are usable also they fit for weapon sets other than rifle, but some of them don't make any sense and some of them need slightly buffs/changes to make them viable.

• Deadeye's Mark

  Mark a single target to generate stacks of malice over time. Malice generates faster and increases your damage against the marked target as long as you have recently struck it. Lose allmalice when the mark ends or this skill is recast.Malice: 3% DamageMaximum Malice: 5Duration: 25sMalice Interval Passive: 4sMalice Interval Attacking: 2sRange: 1,500

  Changes :Mark a single target to generate stacks of malice over time. Malice generates faster and increases your damage against the marked target as long as you have recently struck it.Malice decays overtime when the mark ends or this skill is recast.Malice: 2% Damage 2% Condition DamageMaximum Malice: 5Duration: 25sMalice Interval Passive: 2sMalice Interval Attacking: 1sMalice Interval Decay : 2sRange: 1,500

The decay works basically as Adrenaline for warriors, if you keep attacking you will keep your malice stack if you don't then you will lose it overtime, nerfed the damage from 15% to 10% full stack and decrease the malice interval rate.So with these changes you will be able to stack your malice faster keep it for longer fights, you lose some damage % to balance this change.Added decay to malice, reduced interval, reduced damage, added condition damage.

• Iron sightIncoming damage from your marked target is reduced.Damage Reduced: 15%

  Changes:Incoming damage from your marked target is reduced.Damage Reduced: 20%

Slightly buff from 15% to 20%.

• One in the ChamberWhen you cast a Cantrip gain one new random stolen skill.(Requires a marked target. Overwrites any existing stolen skill.)Stolen Skill Uses: 1

  Changes:When you cast a Cantrip gain one new random stolen skill.Reduce Cantrip recharge by 20%.(Requires a marked target. Overwrites any existing stolen skill.)Stolen Skill Uses: 1

Added a reduce to cantrips by 20%

• Renewing GazeDeadeye's Mark recharges if your mark is defeated. Gain regeneration during this recharge.Regen (3s): 390 Heal

  Changes:Deadeye's Mark heals you for a slight amount.Healing: 1980 Health (0.6)?

Renewing Gaze no longer recharges mark instead it heals you for a slight amount, I just put the mug healing for example but yeah between 1500-2500 health should be fair.Also needs a new name :)

• UnforgivingYour first attack stuns if it hits a newly marked target.Stun: 1s

  Changes:Your first attack stuns if it hits a newly marked target. This attack is unblockable.Stun: 1sUnblockable

Added an unblockable effect, it's a really strong trait yes but with the amount of blocks everybody has, it's kind of useless, an unblockable effect is a fair buff.

• PerfectionistI don't know if this is bugged or not but you only get the boons once, so it doesn't make any sense for this trait to have a cd if it only procs one time from your mark.

• Maleficent SevenIncrease maximum malice stack count. Time between malice gains is reduced. Perfectionist heals you upon reaching the new maximum.Maleficent Seven (7s): 2,565 HealIncreased Malice Cap: 7Malice Gain Time Reduction: 25%

  Changes:Increase maximum malice stack count. Perfectionist heals you upon reaching the new maximum.Maleficent Seven (7s): 3,565 HealIncreased Malice Cap: 7

Removed the 25% malice reduction because we already addressed it on mark. I only increased the heal amount a bit because I don't want to make further changes due to I don't really know if perfectionist is working as intended.

• Be Quick or Be KilledGain quickness when marking a foe. Your power and precision are increased while under this effect.Quickness (4s): Skills and actions are faster.Power: 200Precision: 200

  Changes:Gain quickness when marking a foe. Your power and ferocity are increased while under this effect.Quickness (4s): Skills and actions are faster.Power: 200ferocity: 200

Removed precision and added ferocity instead, I think it makes more sense than having precision.

3. Rifle

What can I say about this weapon? literally useless besides killing bots in pvp, any normal people with common senses will avoid you through LOS and make the match a 4v5.

• Brutal AimMake this skill 1/2 cast time.

• Deadly AimMake this skill 1/2 cast time.

• Cursed BulletFire a cursed bullet that tracks your target and converts its boons into conditions. Deals increased damage while kneeling.Damage: 295 (0.7)?Damage Increase: 20%Boons Converted to Conditions: 2Combo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 1,500Unblockable

  Changes:Make this skill 1/2 cast timeIncrease the projectile velocity by 100%Fire a cursed bullet that tracks your target and converts its boons into conditions. Deals increased damage while kneeling.Damage: 450 (0.7)?Damage Increase: 20%Boons Converted to Conditions: 2Combo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 1,500Unblockable

This is by far the worst stealth attack I've ever seen in thief, it doesn't do damage, it bugs out with Rending Shade since beta and it doesn't even hit the target because IT'S SO DAMN SLOW.Changed cast time to 1/2, increased projectile velocity by 100%, increased damage a bit.

• Double TapMake this skill 1/2 cast time.

• Three Round BurstMake this skill 3/4 cast time.

• Death's RetreatShadowstep backward and lose conditions. Poisons foes at your starting location.Damage: 273Poison (4s): 268 Damage, -33% Healing EffectivenessConditions Removed: 1Radius: 180Distance: 600Combo Finisher: Leap

  Changes:Shadowstep backward and lose conditions. Poisons foes at your starting location.Damage: 273Poison (4s): 268 Damage, -33% Healing EffectivenessConditions Removed: 2Radius: 180Distance: 600Combo Finisher: Leap

I love this skill, but first they really need to fix the leap path, it bugs too much and in too many places.There's 2 versions of this change, either increase conditions removed from 1 to 2 and increase initiative from 5 to 6 or just decrease initiative from 5 to 4.

• Death's JudgmentFire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you.Damage: 696 (1.65)?Damage bonus per stack: 15%Revealed (3s): You cannot stealthCombo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 1,500

  Changes:Fire a shot that deals increased damage based on your number of malice stacks. This attack reveals you and your foe. This attack is unblockable.Damage: 696 (1.65)?Damage bonus per stack: 15%Revealed (3s): You cannot stealthCombo Finisher: Physical ProjectileRange: 1,500Unblockable

Anet thought that nerfing Rifle 3 would make people use more often Death's Judgment but they failed to see that the problem wasn't the damage but the way to get that damage.By buffing malice generation rate you're buffing this skill indirectly because you will stack malice faster thus you will use this skill more often.Added a unblockable effect and a reveal effect to your enemy as well.

We have already discussed kneel above so this is all I have to say about rifle.

• Malicious RestorationDecrease CD from 30 to 25s.

I don't really know how to change the utilities because I haven't used them besides Mercy and the elite, Mercy is really good and the elite is also decent.

I think that's all I can say about Deadeye, hope you guys come and discuss these changes, you are welcome to say your own changes/ideas as well.I'll make another thread only for the stolen abilities because they need to be changed as well.

I stopped reading after the first 2 suggested changes.

-Having mark with a cast time is balanced considering every stolen skill has zero cast time. Additionally, the fact that mark refreshes every time your marked target dies just lets you steal on a downstate body and spam the stolen ability for cheap and easy boons.

-Learning to unkneel is a l2p issue. It would be nice if say death's retreat/death's judgement had a different color between when in kneel or standing though to easily check whether you're kneeled or not.

I think you're trying way too hard with your suggested changes to make deadeye like core thief/daredevil. The playstyle is completely different with deadeye where you are rewarded with bursting once you build enough malice. The stolen abilities are actually useful for every class compared to only ectos and waterfields being useful for core thief.

I don't really like these changes. That's all I am going to say because there's too much to nick pick.

@seanshine.8791 said:I stopped reading after the first 2 suggested changes.

-Having mark with a cast time is balanced considering every stolen skill has zero cast time. Additionally, the fact that mark refreshes every time your marked target dies just lets you steal on a downstate body and spam the stolen ability for cheap and easy boons.

-Learning to unkneel is a l2p issue. It would be nice if say death's retreat/death's judgement had a different color between when in kneel or standing though to easily check whether you're kneeled or not.

I think you're trying way too hard with your suggested changes to make deadeye like core thief/daredevil. The playstyle is completely different with deadeye where you are rewarded with bursting once you build enough malice. The stolen abilities are actually useful for every class compared to only ectos and waterfields being useful for core thief.

Then you will not see this spec in any 5v5 or tournaments because nobody will pick it due to the clunky mechanics it has.If you want to keep trolling ranked and killing bots that don't even use los then fine.What I'm trying to do is to make Deadeye somewhat competitive against core/daredevil thief.