Shadow.1345

You got it. That's likely the point of why they made the change. Before once you reached 100 endurance you would just press the dodge key to not waste endurance with no worries because you had more endurance banked. Now you have to consider the consequences. If you want to lock yourself into the mindset that saving your dodge for when it counts is wasting endurance then go ahead but there is nothing saying you have to do that except yourselves. Plus as I and others have stated it gives the advantage of not having to interrupt skill casts to dodge interrupts. Even Daredevil with it's 150 endurance doesn't get that advantage. With all the previous nerfs the one problem with Mirage in a competitive setting that always remained was the massive advantage that Mirage Cloak provides.Yes, I agree that condi is easy but that is the nature of the competitive environment of every game to find builds with the lowest risk and highest reward. Nerfing conditions nerfs Core, Chrono and Mirage, not just Mirage. Nerfing or removing IH nerfs power too. Gutting scepter/staff ambush affects PvE. Also with the philosophy of not changing the functionality of skills across modes I think reducing endurance is the best way to fix the problem of Mirage Cloak. IH doesn't have a CD so adding one changes the functionality of the trait. You can disagree with me and that is fine but I fully comprehend what is means. Just because I'm not crying over it doesn't mean I don't understand the nature of the change.

Well thank you for that long explanation for your own personal definition of active/passive. It is, however, just your own personal definition. Words do have definitions, though, and if you expect people to not take words at their generally agreed upon definitions and just your own personal definition instead you're going to find trouble communicating your ideas. Which might be why you have so much trouble with people understanding you. Just some helpful advice there for you. I know right! I even told him multiple times he was wasting his time and he still keeps doing it while complaining that he has to do it. Like it was his job. I asked for it, huh? All I did was post a comment and you started in with these big walls of texts and every time I responded you kept throwing bigger walls of texts at me. I even told you your arguments were not convincing and you kept repeating the exact same argument, like if you repeated it enough times I would finally see the light. I even told you that even if you did convince me it wouldn't change anything because development decisions aren't made by arguments on the forums. Yet, still you persisted and to what end? Oh if that is your goal let me do you a solid and tell you what you must do. You need to do what CMC did and apply for a job with ANet. There you go, I just saved you all that time posting these walls of texts and making you want to harm yourself because I'm a nice guy and don't want a video game to cause you mental health problems that lead to self harm.

Reread this statement you made as if someone said it to you and decide for yourself if it was rude? Because if you think telling somebody you think they are "too far away from 'deeper understanding' to explain something because it would be too much work then I will feel free to speak down to you on regular basis as if you are too stupid to understand anything. It has nothing to do with speaking facts, it the insults you keep throwing in. It is the condescending remarks you make. I didn't call you a Mesmer main, you assumed it. You keep talking about how everyone else doesn't understand the class. I just figured since you act like everyone else is less knowledgeable than you then you must be the best at it. I play Mesmer mostly in PvE and play it a lot in PvP but I also play other classes. In fact based on the number of matches I have played Thief is the class I have played the most. Then don't use it purely offensively. That is your choice. With Scepter 2, Staff 2, Staff 5 and Distortion I can risk using it offensive if I want. The whole point of the nerf is to force you to ahve to make that decision instead of just using it spamingly. Except according to you you can't use it defensively either because you are "forced" to spam it. Well because you speak with condescending words like: Also you were the one who started the conversation by responding to something I said. You can stop responding to me at any time. Except you really don't explain things: This isn't an explanation, this is you just telling me your opinion. It has no details to backup why ambush with a axe, scepter or staff is 'passive' but if you do it with a sword or greatsword is 'active' when both are just pushing a button. Now I get that you are frustrated with me not being persuaded here but if you are not persuading me that is a failure on your part, not on me. I'm not sure what you want to get out of this. I'm just a nobody. You need to convince CMC. Here is his Twitch stream link. Just go on when he is streaming and convince him because so far you are doing a bad job of convincing me:https://www.twitch.tv/cmcgw2

Oh I am sorry I didn't realize I was talking to ascended being of great enlightment, the literal god of gaming. You must be the greatest Mesmer in the game. Ranked #1 every season because you know the class better than a filthy low being such as myself who doesn't understand the difference between passive and active abilities. You're #1 on your server, right? Best mesmer of all time right? LOL, do you even realize how much of a rude response that was? Probably not, you seem to enjoy talking down to others from what I have seen of you so far. Dude there is literally one definition of passive when it comes to game abilities and if you have to activate the ability to use it it's not passive. It's not up for debate. Ask anyone that games that. You can use your dodge offensively or you can use it defensively. You still have that choice. The game doesn't take away that choice. 50 endurance or 200 endurance you still get that choice. Thinking you don't get that choice is a self-imposed restriction. The patch didn't take away your free will. What is so hard to understand with that? Well, I guess I am just a big dummy and I should stop and just ask you for my opinion to have because you understand this broader thing that mere mortals like myself don't understand Mr. Mesmer God? LOL, seriously I think you're just making this stuff up at this point. You seem to just have some major bias against condition damage. I'd speak further with you but you can't seem to talk to someone without being a jerk so you have fun with being salty that people don't just bow down and treat you like a genius and just ask you for what opinion to have on the game every time you have to repeat yourself.

I don't really wanna argue over most of this again with you but you keep calling the use of ambush skills passive but it's not. The clone standing there using the auto attack is passive. Getting regen because you took damage is passive. Ambush skills require you to actively use a skill so they are not passive.

I believe you aren't trying to be mean or anything. I am not ignoring your arguments and cherry picking. For one I am at work and responding to you while doing other things at the same time so my attention is split. Also I am answering more in general than addressing every single word. I am hearing your argument I just don't agree because I think if it was just condi and Chaos line alone then there would be a condicore build but the only core build is still power shatter. I think if Mirage is the problem then Mirage needs to be fixed. Either way, you have your thoughts and I have mine. In the end it doesn't treally matter because ANet doesn't make decisions based on the forums alone. They make them largely based on data they collect. The real way to convince them to revert the endurance nerf is for it to be proven to be way underpowered in PvP through actual game play but I have to say from playing Mirage since the patch it's still playable in 5v5 unranked. I haven't tried 2v2 yet but 2v2 DM has always been different than 5v5 Conquest. On a side note: If you are tired of typing walls of text to everyone then just make a google doc and copy paste your arguments for easier arguing.

That's what I thought. Yep seems so. Actually good for me, no need to write wall of text anymore^^ I'm actually not trolling you. I was having a civil discussion with you. If you look back I never call you names or put you down other than the part where you accused me of bias and I responded back. Look we have a difference in opinion on this and that is fine. I have been listening to your side of the argument which is proven by me responding to your points. Though, it does seem like me not agreeing with you is being taken as me being stupid or not listening to you. That's really not a very civil way to have a discussion imo.

I recall things differently. I remember people used to say nobody ran it because it was easy to dodge the ambush but I guess I am wrong. Sorry I will defer to your superior knowledge because I guess I am just a dumbass.

I'm sorry I was wrong. You are superior to me and I will defer to your superior judgement instead of having thoughts of my own.

And still meta after every one of those nerfs. Don't argue, you know it's true.

I main Mirage and I am supporting the nerf. You are whining about the nerf so keep whining about Mirage and Spellbreaker fam.

I main mesmer and play condimirage as stated before. I guess you forgot that in your knee-jerk reaction to call me "racist" against Mirage Cloak. How cute of you. If all that is true then just play condimesmer and let the numbers prove you right to ANet because winning an argument against me doesn't do anything to change anything. The problem with nerfing condiambush is that is nerfing condiambush to make up for Infinite Horizon. Even though Infinite Horizon is the meta currently, it wasn't always. The simplest way to fix it is to fix the root of the problem which is Mirage Cloak. That's not even to mention that they did nerf condition damage all around by removal of amulets with Expertise to reduce the size of stacks through the reduction of condition time. Again this is asking to nerf anything beside Mirage Cloak which is really telling. I also addressed the skill ceiling argument. You can spam it if you want or you can use it wisely. Before with 100 endurance you could spam it at 100 endurance and keep one in the pocket for using it wisely. Now you have to make a decision. They did nerf Chaos. The passive regen was cut in half. Boon and condition duration per boon was cut in half. Protection from Chaos Aura was reduced by 1/3. Expertise reduced by 8%. Also condition Mesmer was never really a thing until Mirage. It was always about power so the argument that it is about condition clones doesn't really hold up. The only core build right now are power. Where it the core condi build at? If that is true then why are you crying about the endurance nerf?

Oh no, I fully grasp that you are trying to make the argument about Spellbreaker vs. Mirage. I'm just not falling into that argument and it's frustrating you. If Spellbreaker is too powerful then fix Spellbreaker but using Spellbreaker to not fix Mirage Cloak is just you being a child about getting your favorite class nerfed.

I don't think it is beyond broken but your argument against the change actually convinced me that ANet made the smart move. The issue at hand is condimirage, not condimesmer. Gutting clone attacks and Chaos is just nerfing Mesmer to avoid nerfing Mirage Cloak and that just hurts people who don't have PoF so you don't get Mirage nerfed. If it was truly all about Chaos and conditions then people would just change over to core mesmer and be done with it. You could even swap out Mirage line for Illusions for the damage increase and more conditions or for Inspiration for more healing and condition cleanse. If it wasn't at all about Mirage Cloak you wouldn't be trying so hard to convince everyone to gut core Mesmer instead of Mirage.One argument I keep hearing is that you have to spam dodge roll every time your dodge bar is full or your losing endurance but that's just your mindset. You don't have to do these things. Instead reducing it to 50 endurance makes you have to choose to either spam it as soon as it is full or use it smartly. Smart dodging has always been an aspect of this game. Furthermore, by not nerfing the vigor from Bountiful Disillusionment it allows for that better vigor up time to refill endurance faster so your argument about how strong it is actually favors reducing the endurance for Mirage because it proves how fast that endurance bar can be refilled.

The Action Hero is back!I remember this guy. He's loads of entertainment. If you queue up and get him on your team he will toggle walk and then walk back and forth giving a speech to his team like it was an action movie or something. If he's on the other team you can see him talk about how he is the greatest just before he goes into the downstate and then he will call you a lucky noob after you stomp him. Good times.

Actually I have seen a mirage in every match I have played.

No, ANet makes decisions based on information that they have gathered, not based on what people on the forums whine about. Thinking otherwise is just being salty because you didn't get what you want. Condi is king for mesmer because of how easy it is compared to power. Power involves risk while condi you can just apply and then hide while your clones do all of the work. As for myself I plan to just let time pass before I cry over the change and see how things work out because 2 days isn't much time for a fair assessment of how the meta will change. Everytime they nerf mesmer every mesmer main cries like it is the end of the world and mesmer still ends up being meta.

Yeah, I'm the dumbest guy on the planet so that isn't much. Also, I haven't played this game much in the past year or two but what I do know is when I came back to playing PvP a few months ago, I found through the use of Scepter and Staff skill 2 along with using shatters regularly to keep my Vigour up, especially Cry of Frustration, that it was pretty easy to just pretty much spam dodges and evade attacks, and according to you my knowledge is "pretty not good" so I don't think it took too much skill so pretty much anybody could do it too. Overall you gave a great response and I learned a lot from it but I think the choice came between gutting the whole mesmer class (because removing attacks from the clones would mean removing those attacks from the players or else just making the clones easier to tell apart than they already are) or limiting how often Mirage Cloak could be used so they went with that. As much as people argue and tell me they are wrong because they are salty about having their class nerfed nobody has been able to deny that Mirage Cloak is a very powerful ability. Also, it wasn't my goal. It was ANet's goal. I was just explaining the clear reasoning behind their decision. Don't confuse the two.

You pretty much made that list already but hey you knock yourself out. Do you feel better now? You come off as the kind of person that likes to put others down to make yourself feel better. Yet you keep failing to answer my question, how does one elite class, that you keep coming back to, change anything about how powerful Mirage Cloak is? You never answer that. You just keep comparing the two as if that is an answer. So Mr. Smart Guy, explain to me, Mr. Dumb Guy, how comparing those two elites makes Mirage Cloak not powerful?

You jumped halfway into the conversation and so you missed the part where the person I was responding to was comparing what spellweaver gets as an elite so I responded with stuff the elite offers that was left off their list. It isn't about whether anyone uses it, just that it is offered as part of the elite.Also nobody took Infinite Horizon until Elusive Mind was nerfed. There is always a list of things that nobody used until something changed for mesmer and every other profession. Now maybe it just was the condition damage but maybe once it was nerfed something new would come along. I think Mirage Cloak being so powerful has always been the issue with Mirage.Either way it's all a matter of opinion and most likely I am wrong because I am trash.

I think you missed most of the point because the person I was talking to was comparing the extra evade ability of Soulbreaker and I pointed out as an elite that Mirage gets a lot of extra evade abilities. You just kind of jumped in halfway and cherry picked to make a response.

Oh your point on that is likely true but it's not the first time some class has not been worth playing. This game even went through a few years of no core class being worth playing. I know that metabattle already removed the CI without CI but I found it still performed fine in unranked 5v5, but metabattle probably is only looking at things from the 2v2 perspective for now.

The point isn't how good they are but what more they offer the profession through the elite spec.

The point isn't how good they are but what more they offer the profession through the elite spec.

extra evade CDs -> Illusionary Ambush, Sand Through Glass, Mirage Mirrors created by False Oasis, Sand Through Glass (this is 2 evades in one utility and a stun break), Crystal Sands and Distortion with Desert DistortionDodge while stompingDodge while revivingThough again, the benefits of other elites do not change how overtuned Mirage Cloak is. The other option was to basically get rid of IH because it was giving a massive advantage and everyone knows it. Then all the mesmer mains would be crying about loss of that. Before that is was how overtuned Elusive Mind was and when that got nerfed everyone went for Infinite Horizon when the problem all along has been Mirage Cloak.