Jarwan.8263

you are right i don't understand tech stuff, but it doesn't mean i'm wrong. nowhere has caps implication been acknowledged by them. but players like you who daily forage berries at camps are in the majority that don't peelback the mechanics to see whats possible rather you log on forums to tell people like me are wrong without adding something of value to say why, other than dev said so... and you expect me to respond to that. this has already been answered in 2 different threads of mine, possibly more from others but its clear to me you don't understand the game mechanics enough to realise the caps implications. sure daoc has 3 players capable of wiping an entire blob... i guarantee that doesn't happen all the time but you have to clap at how they managed to outsmart an entire blob.. i need to see links of that happening but how do you see that as unfair. they had equal chance and one chose to use it more effectively. would you rather these caps satisfy your need to feel safe? perhaps add a safezone route so you can pick your berries. its a pvp game, you can't have opponents be strong cause they have more players.

when you say i'm wrong, you have to also add extra detail as to why so I can see where you're coming from. this mode may be designed for large groups to play, but its ultimately a flawed design that skews fairness in favour of the team with more active players running specific comps stacked.. you just can't beat that when it appears.. you have to be the same number as the opponents and stack the same way then its about who's better than the other.. otherwise they mitigate alot of damage that renders your pressure ineffective. it impacts everyone including you and me... thats a negative, so you have to explain why thats wrong so i can understand. if its really intended for large groups with the limitations of caps then it'd make sense for it to have been more of a battleground mode where everyone would have to queue and matchmake.. that way you could ensure and monitor everyones under the same parameters and playing under the same objective like sPvP. but its 24/7... you can enter and leave whenever you want and do whatever you want.. some players like i love that freedom. the population however fluctuates over the hours and teams strength is based solely on how many players are active.. rather than the quality of the players active. like i'm not quite understanding the mentality of being able to accept technical limitations in a flawed design that should have seen fairness be priority from the get go.

you part of their PR team? just hand in your application already the only technical limitations i see is with the devs themselves who aren't able to resolve or admit this a problem.. there is nothing that will suddenly shift the caps to being fair game until you can make sure there are always equal amounts of players engaged in pvp at any given time. thats impossible in wvw. only then can both sides exude equal amount of pressure and the outcome is determined by the types of players themselves. i just wanna know how this mode was a good idea if they knew caps were a limitation.. why not limit squad size to 10? encourage the maps wide area to be filled more, why not bring on the mistlock instabilities and convert them someway to reduce a squads power? why not remove downstates if thats the case instead of events what small scale roamers yearn for to have an easier time chipping away big squads.. literally you'd think the riskier playstyles would therefore be encouraged as they do in other pvp games but anet has done a 180 over the years to cater to the slow, long drawn out fights where players are all waiting for cooldowns cause there isn't enough abilities available to effectively finish engagements quickly. thats my own thoughts formulated from the caps, power nerf and cele's buff.. i just don't get it. i only play fa tempest and after 6.5k hours of roaming it i've probably spent atleast a quarter of that looking for 1-5 players to even engage in pvp against.. i look forward to daily camp cause thats the only time you can find consistent small groups to pvp with if they don't get big enough to ruin my enjoyment. otherwise its stagnant most times. in every mmo the end game tends to be pvp and for me wvw in gw2 is a tarnished gem with untapped potential that could arguably be a successful standalone game if the right people handled it. i've only spent 90% of my gametime in wvw, take that opinion however you wish. if you gonna put a target cap in a pvp sandbox king of the hill situation where squads of 50 players can team up and trailblaze over a map, alarms should begin to ring.. it doesn't take long to find yourself outnumbered, your damage ineffective and pointless to engage opponents at close range who are bunched up together way past the cap and worse, running supports. you'll run into an impenetrable wall where regardless of how much power, ferocity, precision you stack you are useless to do anything that will amount to an opening for the rest of your group. this just leads to bottlenecking the playstyles for certain classes that can zerg bust better than others at half the effort.. encouraging you to slot defensive stats to mitigate as much damage as you can. ITS A PROBLEM WHETHER THERE ARE TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS OR NOT.

i can't facepalm any harder than that post.. that quote is from like a decade ago.. if this was a new game fine.. understandable that in the beginning they had technical limitations preventin the caps increasing.. but older skills had a higher cap back then and decade later the engine hasn't been improved? and during those years we've had nothing but backward balance patches and reduction to power coefficients across the board... so excuse me if i choose not to believe that bull when to me its apparent the long drawn out zerg gameplay is what they aim for..

interesting... thats an good alternative to keeping the cap.. by simply making aoes stronger based on how many players are in.. aoe placed on 5 targets surrounded by a ton of players take more damage than if they weren't around.. didn't think of that 🤔

one of the criteria's of a successful joke is to be funny edit: infact thats the only criteria you had to achieve

you guys are sensitive enough to react and focus in the way i choose to organise my words.. i can't control that.. how about you stop feeling like you're being insulted and actually read what i'm trying to point out.. this caps not good for anyone, it benefits no one but the side with more players..

so target caps isn't an unfair mechanic then? answer that then tell me another solution that doesn't involve extra implementations to level teams strength across the board regardless of the numbers they have.

ahh man... i cba with you NA players.. critical thinking isn't passed down your lineage performance issues/lag will still exist with or without caps when players bunch up in 1 spot.. only difference is it stops bigger groups gaining advantage.. either add an alternative idea that doesn't involve caps or don't comment pointless commentary that adds nothing to the discussion

i have no idea how to deconstruct that.. whats your point cause nothing you said leads to anything substantial. pulling a target and focusing 1 target is literally what stacked squads do already you absolute cabbage the caps extended lessen damage mitigations.. builds/stats comps will always change.. but this is an unfair mechanic bottomline. caps need looking into

this modes potential is limited by how much power is given to a team with an active playerbase that dominate in giant squads.. i'm sorry to those who enjoy blobbing but it just don't look fun scanning through a powerpoint presentation 1-5 scrolling your skills for minimal impact to an outcome of fights right now the target cap on offensive/defensive abilities is set at a measly 5 giving WvW map superiority to any team with a greater quantity of active players, in expense of quality. additionally if the greater number of players choose to stack themselves within a small portion of an area then they are even more so improved through significant damage mitigation. undeniable fact. i.e. defense or surprise attacks are pointless against them if you're outnumbered and their bunched together. thus the aim of the gamemode does not involve being a better player. you just need more players. if you happen to be on the team matched with less active players, tough luck m8, go buy yourself gems for a transfer. needs tweaking, you can't really balance for 5v5's in a mode that generally has players roam in groups of 5+.. thats just silly and for those who say alliance will arrive so you won't need gems... when? https://imgur.com/a/OevFLdM

The best offence is a better defense - Anet Balance Devs its incredibly sad that the lens in which they view this mode is tainted by their inability to play competently in their own game. cause otherwise after reading the last several balance patches i'd have left with some of kind of understanding to their overall aim instead of pissing every core pvp player off exactly... statements like those has me question how exotic the herbs they smoke are i'm sure their conclusion was scribbled from a pve pie chart that had wvw in small prints underneath it without really taking into account the delicate interactions stats/ skills/traits have with each other against other players who don't utilize them, or if they do.. mostly go for the lazy options cause its available.. balance is an ongoing cycle that shouldn't take 6months + for minor changes..

dunno if its a good solution, but i think those cc conditions should be capped to a max of 3s and shouldn't scale with expertise.. just that separation would drastically change alot without changing much. they already capped it to 10s to allow players who can't even keybind a clean to mount up.. therefore can't be that hard to select certain ones and cap them 1s-3s across the board the issue right now is certain condi specs and builds can overwhelm a player with limited cleanse.. if they have the clean depending on which order of conditions are placed, on a cleansing sigil you could potentially remove immob, chill, slow on a 9s cooldown whilst 15 stacks of fire and torment rip chunks of your hp away. bad design.

you skipped out scepter as a ranged weapon

for the better.. its gonna die anyway when their competitive modes ain't even fair. justice is a G for putting all this detailed info in. and not a SINGLE response except blocking me from posting every few hours.. how do you expect players to treat devs when they don't even respect players.

no, the last topic on this was 2013, this is fresh. place them on here as an argument against target caps. i'm not gonna go digging for your guaranteed useless ideas that won't equalise damage.. you're that afraid of a zerg getting blown up by lone players when all i ever suggested so, was merely to use as an example to express my point. theres 9 pages worth of texts explaining how its unfavourable for smaller groups to have these caps and gives an advantage to a group/server that already has more players... how anyone can argue thats how it should be, plays in those zergs. ye.. sure, you say i want others to do the work for me yet ironically thats probably you getting carried by a commander. all my points involves the devs doing the work for me? well thats what they are hired to do.. to be developers mate. what do you think a bug report is? this is clearly a flaw. the existence of these caps also give me an advantage under the conditions just as every players who use them.. i just don't think its fair... about as fair as attacking a player with no rank who doesn't have a mount... wheres the fun? no challenge if the game limits you to a certain number of players because you choose to play in smaller groups. bit weird... i didn't ask wvw to be changed to incorporate the way i choose to play the game. i just question why if those who choose to stick together, aren't least given a crutch but instead are improved by the caps against players who are outnumbered.. how can you argue thats fair? so again... lets read your good ideas that can counter the point of this.. cause i'm very curious.

solo'ing zergs again, you haven't even began to understand the reasoning behind it but sure, lets read all your so-called great ideas that can fix this issues without cap removal, which bear in mind can still negate damage cause theres just no other way to remove that possibility. but anyway, i'm incredibly excited and curious to read how you can balance small servers who find themselves against big ones.

fair enough, we have 1 quote from a dev in 2013 explaining that theres technical limitations to aoe without us ever having test it considering certain skills in the past could hit 10 before they were nerfed for balance... so which one is it. i find it weird how almost every one of those players in that thread seem to make sense for/against on that topic.. freaky.. what has happened over the years. all that tells me is the servers suck to deal with the calculations... i'll pay a monthly sub if it meant a better wvw where teams fights aren't decided by how many players. no caps are a better fix than anything you can come up with.

but those 2 statements contradict each other. what happens when not enough are online to defend a keep? the caps is a easy win for larger groups when really players should have equal chance with the skills their given to be able to damage everyone against large groups, this would apply to me and you and everyone else in that situation. what you are asking for, is for the mechanics of your skills to be changed... thats a separate topic altogether mate.. it has to stem from no caps though to give smaller side equal chance.. what your 1-5 skills can or can't do doesn't make sense to me cause i switch between builds that focus on 1 player vs multiple... so what class are you to run double axe? i want to know this unusual specific example you bring up so we can tackle this together. to suddenly have axe skills do ludicrous amounts of damage as a result of no cap cause i can shoot my aoes from a distance now and hit every player is a weird point to bring up. with my zerg, our server matched that went from t6-t1 easily. can dominate your players if we're stacked outside your t3 gates and you only have.. lets say 1-30 players available to defend. thats alot of players.. but your aoe is less effective than the enemies aoe... even if they use the same one as yours... only because they have MORE players as a result of cap. changing your skills is not gonna help if then all those players are just gonna run the same thing as you to do 50k damage on just 1-5 skills with no weapon change or any aoes for that matter.. you want the mechanics to be changed to suit just your class. i feel like thats harder work than just removing the caps for everyone honestly. if as a result players choose to run FA tempest cause i chose to argue this topic then feel free, good luck side stepping incoming damage and 6k backstabs from an invisible player whilst maintaining pressure. i really don't care if every zerk build consequently gets propped up cause they'll be the glassiest of specs you can find in this toxic spill of a game... what is so scary about that? learn to counter it, they will take huge damage.

moderator monitoring this thread? my responses keep getting deleted... i'm not even insulting in it so the hell.. mabi, i don't know how to explain it to you... its not the same thing... yes every aoe should act as intended to every target both damage and healing... the changes have to come from there with no caps.. removing it is not end of the story.. but balance has to come from equalising team strength too.. not just individual class do you know what i do to fields when i see them? not cross them. if i do, i dodge into them to either have them miss or activate whatever mechanism that occurs after. the only time i don't dodge is when i'm in a zerg and theres aoe fields.. you don't need to... you usually have supports there with you and if you tightly packed in you should avoid most of the damage inflicted on you. i dunno how my version of equal opportunity means i completely benefit when it just allows me to bloody play the mode... when a zerg coming knocking on the gate, the few players you can muster can do little to nothing in defense. can't inflict damage on all.. you need a laggy blob to counter a laggy blob. my overloads without caps can do nothing if all those players are ALERT enough to not allow that to happen. if 5 players can successfully do it then its rewarded as such if they can take down an entire zerg somehow without them even retaliating.. it just evens the score for every fights.. cause right now same zerg should easily faceroll that small group in any situation with/without caps so why is it such a big fuss to open the floodgates and strike balance from there?

man that was tough to decipher, but i understand it now. i'm pretty sure most classes, if not all have aoe. single target skills are still as effective as they suggest in the tooltip. whoever you target it to, it does the full damage. but aoe doesn't if those targets are above 5 standing on it. so you want 50k damage on axe cause you didn't bother to do anything else but cycle through your 1-5. if the team you go against also has those skills on axe well then... you realise the problem right? it just becomes which side has the axe that can do 50k, and everyone will now start running it. nothing will stop zergs from taking 0 pressure from smaller groups. whereas if you push the argument that this just favours my class more cause i main a glass FA tempest. then i would point out i get 1 shotted by t3 guards on a daily basis. theres dragonhunters, soulbeasts with prelude, reapers, mirages, holo, ALL of them have aoes. pushing players to run riskier damage builds should be better for all than the current meta of toughness, vitality, healing power.. like really? how is that fun to fight against when you have to put 100% more effort to deal damage cause your aoes are less effective against a bigger group. they finally go down and teammates swarm to instantly get them back up taking little to no damage cause of mitigation and their own supports to bolster while you cleanse, dodge, pressure being under their cap. the caps steer balance in a complex new direction and no amount of class tweaks can fix the number disparity in a given situation. and adds extra weight to supports + player count. so i don't really get your point i guess

all 3 statements are wrong m8. if damage mitigation is possible then the only way that happens is through stacking, therefore all those points collapse. justice was stating about the movements whilst your stacking that can turn a boon ball into an unkillable machine by designating players to move in specific pattern to consistently distribute damage/heal onto different teammates. he explained it perfectly clear. send me a link to that statement, cause i doubt thats true... i feel like the technical difficulty stems from laziness more than the engine itself.. Anets is probably the best i've seen for an mmo that was released in 2012. they don't need to change the animation, just how many targets aoes can register. the only performance issues i have is with large zergs where i'd have to set the visuals on low just to avoid slideshows. i'm not that technical though, need to research this. not sure what this is trying to say.. that the advantage still rests with the larger group? as it should, only difference is they aren't helped by target caps anymore. that also takes 2s to think about.. thats a better tradeoff cause the modes full of zergs and the game should reward individual contribution to fuel collective. otherwise whats the point of playing if the better rewards come from zerging. we can gvg... my 10 awesome players vs your 5.. sure its not fair but wvw isn't either with the caps.. wanna schedule a date? right.. i don't see why damage would need to be nerfed when people constantly moan about supports being op... this just affects how many can be targeted, not how skills work. and those affected would have to be within the aoe... so if you choose to stack... you should be alert enough to cleanse/heal/cloud/flee/pressure.. all these choices are open to you.. but right now stacking is the best and optimum strategy to sustain an entire squad. you still have to jump into a zerg that can potentially one shot you, just to be able to damage all of them if they choose to be within close proximity. that sounds way more fun than jumping in and doing damage to only 5? while the rest are able to damage you. so what exactly can you do to pressure a zerg if you don't have one yourself. thats the whole point of this thread. yes it's their game.. they can create it however they want... but they can't skew fairness in a competitive game mode and convince players this is the way it should be played. They created a giant map so 60+ players can hang in 1 small portion of it completely protected by damage negation. i have to speak about it from a solo perspective because you can't see the flaws clearly when you play with zergs. they go over your head once you remove the individual impact your skills have. and if you tell me this isn't a solo game then i would say i agree.. but the balance has to start from there and work up.. its not really a good idea to give hard-coded advantage to any team with a bigger group who can just stack to avoid damage cause then your game mode strives to be a gank fest. you need to allow smaller teams a chance to deliver equal counter pressure which happens through better players. look at it both in micro/macro scale. and if you still struggle then i dunno what i can tell you mate.. i've played this game since 2015, i've given little thought to target cap until recently. partly fuelled from losing faith in anet addressing balance in this mode. this topic though should be in discussion actively until its resolved cause the existence of caps ruin team balancing. nothing to do with skills/stats/builds cause you as a player should know enough of your class to adapt to it.

giving players equal chance in their server regardless of how many players they have should be more important. you can't get that unless the cap is removed. increasing it remedies the situation but this mode lets you have squads of 50 players. it will do little to affect zergs power. doubling a specific classes health pool/healing is worse than anything suggested in this thread. it could potentially create more imbalance cause it targets specific classes. whereas this sits on another lane to that. this hits more on team imbalance. not every server has equal number of active players not every fight has equal number of players. and giving a huge advantage to a side that has already more players isn't right for a design... it breeds toxicity and overall its just not fun when you're in a team that dominates every match nor is it fun to be on the other end when not enough players are online to defend a keep from a zerg. no-cap fixes that. justice devoted 7 pages worth of texts explaining this in deeper detail than i thought to research. something to think about is the new engi golem that now acts as a target. so imagine 5 of them with 5 golems. they'd soak up aoe damage meant for players and unless you outnumber them, you have close to 0 chance if that happens. this doesn't mean that engi's are broken... just that the caps are.

it's alright, most of my colleagues don't either. i'm quite straight to the point.

come on now, i'll wager a huge amount of money theres people that spend double digit hours on this game... theres no shame in it.. is that what you're implying?