Mykhel.6532

You first. Mordremoth got the vast majority of it due to proximity. This is literally stated in the story.

Gay marriage is not a "general concept." It has never existed outside of this block of history. Ever. And it just so happens in 2014-2015 when HoT was being developed and LWS2 was coming out; at the same time there is 12+ court battles in the US alone to solidify gay marriage... you get the only relationship ever stated and followed in all of GW2... and it happens to be 2 women. That is not GENERAL. That is extremely specific.

No it doesn't Soo -Won LITERALLY states she woke up after Zhaitan. You are wrong. At the time of the vision, Zhaitan is dead. His magic already was taken in by Mordremoth. It tipped the scales and is why Mordremoths orb entered the center and then consumed The All in vines. Even conceptually, if Zhaitan's magic entered the center... it would be up for grabs for ANY dragon to take. The vision was leading to Heart of Thorns, where Mordremoth was the main villain. What you're saying makes zero sense. Please provide proof other than your interpretation of a picture or stop replying. You are not going to convince me otherwise unless you provide more evidence. Good day.

It does when there's literally no other relationship in the story you play.

It's not an interpretation. The stuff you linked doesn't even match... The order in the vision goes Primordus, Soo-Won, Jormag, Mordremoth, Kralkatorrik and then Zhaitan. I'm sorry, but if your only evidence is a depiction from the Durmand Priory, then you'll never convince me of what you're saying. On top of that, you try to tell me that Zhaitan is dark green and mordremoth is pale yellow when the colors in the very game itself match the element they represent... You don't have an argument. I could easily say: The reason Zhaitan's orb was the last to awaken is because it was his turn in the cycle. Since we stopped it and inadvertently fed Mordremoth the energy, he consumes the cycle. Edit: AND Soo-Won was 2nd in the vision, but she clearly states in EoD that she woke up right after Zhaitan did. Sorry, but you're making this up. Gonna need way more evidence than "The Durmond Priory picture says so..." when you, as the player SAW the ALL yourself.

Dude, I literally answered that. The priory depiction is incorrect. Period. I'm going off of the vision of actually SEEING it. Also, please show me where Primordus awakens first?

Yes. Coded or not, when it can be directly compared to current events, it's immersion breaking and preachy. I care about your story, not your politics. Also, I love you for introducing me to the word verisimilitude. *Chef's kiss* What a beautiful word.

The All was a depiction by the Durmand Priory. they flipped the images. It was clearly a mistake. I would trust literally seeing it in a vision than to someone's drawing. In addition, Mordremoth is and has always been represented by dark green. Necromancy, or death magic, has always been represented by the pale yellow, which is the color of nearly all necromancer moves. Not to mention, once the green orb hits the center, the vision is engulfed in vines. why would Zhaitan's power do that? Sorry, it just doesn't make any sense.

No. This is wrong. Zhaitans orb does NOT enter the center in that vision. It is Mordremoths. Top Left: Soo-Won (Water) Top Right: Kralkatorrik (Lightning) Left Center: Mordremoth (Life) Right Center: Zhaitan (Death) Bottom Left: Primordus (Fire) Bottom Right: Jormag (Ice) They are literally on the opposing sides to their opposite element. Mordremoths goes around the fixture and then comes center screen before jumping into the middle. Watch it. This is the original video from 2014.

While yes, this can also be compared to several structures of order throughout history. Senseless violence has never ceased. Class stratification has also existed throughout history. These are general concepts, of which GW2 does well. No. This is wrong. General concepts are those seen throughout all of history. When thinking of what I'm describing, ask yourself is this unique to modern day? Or can I point to this happening before because it's a concept that has happened throughout all of history. The plot of original GW2 cannot be compared to modern society. 5 different species/races come together, the crux of their plight being your character's focal point, to destroy an Elder Dragon which threatens all life on Tyria by the use of a sunken island once lost to time to create countless undead. They use their different cultures, tech, tactics, and groups to unite and defeat it. There's nothing in the plot comparable to modern day politics. A wide variety of diverse, unique leaders, with defined personalities and depths join you along your way full of sacrifice, struggle, loss. The primary theme is the unity of races. Let's compare that to IBS. A faction within the Charr separates itself with the ridiculous goal to "get an Elder Dragon" and become the dominant race led by a charismatic figure (Bangar) at the top, which has never demonstrated himself to be a capable leader. This group is LITERALLY described in the "Prologue: Bound by Blood to be "expanding the reach of their xenophobic extremism." The factions of Charr that remained good now have to exterminate the bad ones. Imbecile leaders within the good part of the faction don't attempt diplomacy at all, killing needlessly and even when brought to the table, ruin any chances of a peaceful ending whatsoever. Every female in the story is extremely capable, competent, faultless, and experienced (Crecia, Malice, Almorra, Jora, Galina Edgecrusher, Cinder). Every male leader is an unforgiving, mindless brute (Smodur, Snarl), demonstrated to be weak-willed (Rytlock, Cloudspeaker), or a pushover (Gorrik, Efram). The entire IBS was an allegory of modern politics. The Charr represented the Republican party. The offshoot of Bangar and the eventual frost legion were those who supported Trump. Those Charr who were war hungry, mindless brutes represented the Neo-con parts of the R. party, while the "smarter" never-trumpers/democrats (the rest of the "good" Charr) wanted continued unity. This leads to Logan stating the line I put into the OP where he says "We will be on the right side of history." This was a complete immersion breaking experience for many people and it was potently obvious. They ruined years of lore and character development for the Charr to put this garbage into their story.

Easy. 2014-2015, during the time HoT was in development there were multiple victories in the realm of gay marriage throughout the united states. At the exact same time, we find out that Marjory, a character originally intended to die at the end of Scarlet's saga... was rewritten to stay alive and become the lover of Kasmeer Meade, representing the LGBT community's victory. This is literally a rewrite to fit modern politics. Now that I've made it clear: Your turn.

You're not giving examples. At all. How does that relate to modern politics/ideology? You're just listing story details and general concepts about stuff. How did they reflect current society in 2012 when it was released. Be specific.

Example please.

Explain where modern politics existed within original GW2. Please be specific.

Is she a god or not? The "new" lore is that she created everything on Tyria. She foresaw her children's deaths. She didn't see that it would be by the hands of the life that resulted? This concept makes no sense whatsoever. But WHY!? We literally have gone from not knowing (and frankly, not needing to know) the true story of the creation of Tyria, to its creation being a result of loneliness...with the "god" that created it all, knowing the incredible suffering that her children would cause. We get no explanation on how a water dragon was able to produce offspring of other elements, how she was able to "draw" from the void, why the void didn't crush her or her children at the start since there was no balance to "push it back," or why she and void exist in the first place... No. That is the concept of a god... you CANNOT put yourself into their shoes. It's exactly why trying to humanize a god is a ridiculous venture and why the human gods story line made sense. They were quite IMPERFECT because they weren't real gods. In fact, now that I think of it... I would be pretty disheartened knowing that the being that created everything is now dead. Pretty pathetic gods on Tyria. Ugh. It's seriously so disappointing. This can just as easily be described as "We didn't have anywhere else to go so we wrote it this way." I do not believe this was the original direction of what the void was... The corruption was originally the conflicting of dragon power. Kralkatorrik even talked about how the energy warred within him, causing untold pain in the final scenes of his story in LWS4. He mentioned nothing of the void... and again I bring up how he was able to speak and show affection to Aurene when he was literally created as a "mindless tool." In addition, why did Soo-Won make them able to reproduce? What did they reproduce with? does that mean Soo-Won mated with an unseen dragon? It's bad writing. It's ridiculous what you're asking here. You're asking a naturally mortal being, playing a mortal character (conceptually), to understand plights from an immortal being. Don't you understand how stupid this is from a writing standpoint? Not only can we not understand or even relate to what this is, but you are asking me to sympathize and/or justify the mass murder of billions of Tyrians because "she was lonely, bro." Insane. I agree. Not impossible. But not probable. Again, they still couldn't do it alone. This makes NO sense. She existed with the void before her children existed. How did she combat the void then? How was she able to create and grow 5 children in the midst of the void before they had the ability to do so? you have no answer for this, because there isn't one. It's bad writing. Dude... stop acting like our characters are the bad guys for fighting for their friends and family's lives. There's no evidence of this statement prior to EoD. Incorrect. Zhaitain is depicted as a blemished white/black orb. The vision is in a cutscene with "The Machine" Living world question. The vision shows Mordremoth (Green orb) consuming the other dragons as a result of him becoming too strong. Convenient. This is wrong. Taimi created her machine to subdue Primordus. Balthazar repurposed it to drain the dragon's power. I literally just redid the quest line the other day. This contradicts what Soo-Won said her children were. Again, this makes no sense. What made Primordus different from the other Dragons? Why did Jormag need to be free? What "bound" them? These are huge events with little to no explanation... NO! How are you viewing it this way? We RESPOND to the problems being caused! Name 1 thing we CAUSED in Cantha. Meaning, our character's actions had a direct consequence on Cantha that was not caused by the actions of another character. This is incorrect as well. We literally go through their legal system multiple times to go about it the right way. The Canthans that assist us in the story are literally the ones who either go lawless themselves (Minister Yi and Joon), or assist us in breaking the laws (Detective Hama). I'm sorry, please provide an example if you think I'm wrong. Is giving someone eternal life not a good intention? Can you be evil but still do something good? You have a warped view of reality, my friend. We "decided to trap him and attack him instead of talk to him?" You mean the god who was using Lyssa's mirror to disguise himself as Lazarus, of which we didn't know until we trapped him and broke the mirror? Which then proceeded to destroy the lab, steal the machine, and threaten us with death if we pursued him. Yeah, I can really see where we had the time to sit down and talk to Balthazar. It was probably because we didn't offer him tea. Dude... almost every story event in PoF leading up to Kralk had our character or others trying to reason with Balthazar and tell him about the destruction of the dragons. Did you even play Path of Fire? You mean we had no effing choice but to kill them. You either stop them by all means necessary or you and millions of others die. In no way is that the same thing. The entire EoD storyline disagrees with you. Please provide me an example where our character or someone from our group BLATANTLY disregarded the laws/rules of an established country.

This is the epitome of ignorance. I won't capitulate to laziness. That's fine. However, you cannot ignore that media influences culture and needless to say... politics is in kitten near everything these days. When people play games, it's often to escape the real world for a little bit; enjoy a visual story. You can't escape when you're seeing characters change completely from who they were before to fit a stereotype (the biggest example being Smodur). If you're implying GW2 has always emulated modern day political issues/parties, please provide a concrete example of this prior to PoF. Please be specific.

Even then, you're making a serious generalization of players who have critiques similar to my own. Instead of making broad assumptions, I would recommend you ask or even challenge them with examples and/or comparisons (e.g., "If you don't like the situation presented during X, did you have a problem when X situation was presented before?") to better understand their point of view.

You're literally implying that I was too dumb to see politics previously because they "aligned with my views" and only see it now is because I don't agree.

I think you're confusing ideology and propaganda. Propaganda is used to persuade people of a particular view/stance/vote in a variety of ways that can easily appear manipulative if it's anything other than a presentation of facts; and even that is now contested today. The ideology I'm referring to in this instance is when artists deliberately alter their own stories to fit their ideological views. A game/story can naturally flow into issues that occur in the real world if done with care and respect for the existing lore... but that is not the case here in my opinion. I think the quality of writing from LWS4 to now has drastically dropped as a result.

This is incorrect. Seeing politics in a game vs. seeing real-world politics being injected into a game at the cost of its lore are two very different things. Making assumptions like this is degrading and insulting to chalk it up to something so simple.

That isn't even the main focus of point. Did these dragons claim untold lives on Tyria? Did she create them as mindless tools? Did she create them knowing this? All answers are YES. Oh, well shoot! I mean, at least SHE was happy for a time and things were blissful! I guess that makes up for all the lives that were lost as a result. This comparison is ridiculous. You do not KNOW the fate of your children when you have them... She KNEW before and after she created them. Humans aren't all consuming, element-based dragons with the capacity of consuming life on a massive scale. Humans might be capable of taking large-scale life (and I mean thousands-millions)... but not alone. No. It isn't. Maybe when writing a new story, sure. But this is a decade of lore. Writing over your lore to create an ex-machina dragon that never existed is lore-altering. It conflicts with a ton of lore. The very fact that the so-called balance of the elements was some "shield" from the void means we would've seen void creatures after the fall of Zhaitan. But we didn't we saw a rush to consume both by Balthazar and Kralkatorrik. Not to prevent the void from coming (which is weird how a literal God, Balthazar didn't know about the Void and the protection of the balance)... which counters the entire premise of Path of Fire. Meaning Balthazar, if successful would have been destroyed by the Void as a result of his own stupidity. I was even fine with Soo-Won just being a lost Elder Dragon... but then they made her into this Mother Dragon, creationist... which is also stupid because what is the void? Why didn't the Void kill her to begin with? Why did the Void allow her to make children who were going to help her stave off the void? The balance didn't exist before her children. What changed? Do you see how stupid of a decision this was? There is no logic in this Villain. She is the dumbest character in all of Guild Wars. I would skip it. She was the worst "god" in any writing I've ever seen. She created 5 children she couldn't control. Wasn't strong enough to take in the VERY POWER she gave to her children and ended up being consumed by the void before being killed by her own "creations." What about what I said here is untrue? What about what I said defines any God you've ever heard? And don't say the Human gods. They weren't really gods either. No. We've had a development process. Taimi discovered the Ley-line connection between Dragons, she discovered the machine that would lead to the vision of The Eternal Alchemy--which shows the balance of the Dragons--which is the only time I've ever seen Water noted. In that very vision it shows Mordremoth consuming everything. Kralkatorrik nearly consumed the entirety of the mists. I guess these mindless tools are broken because by this logic, they want the void to come destroy everything. Hell, not even Jormag talks about preserving some balance against the void. She wanted Primordus DEAD! All within the confines of established lore. I wish it was as simple as that... but it's not. It's bad writing. This is a ludicrous statement. You make it sound like we were actively trying to decimate Tyria. And it's crazy to believe it was just your hero. All 5 races and their respective armies/factions participated in the defeats of every elder dragon. It was kill or be killed. Then it became 'how do we stop the Elder Dragons without hurting the world.' That's called a well-written story. Everything was ok and made sense with the lore up until IBS. Never once said he was a good guy. This isn't true at all. Our character put Primordus to sleep instead of killing it. They SAVED Kralkatorrik from Balthazar. They have tried to reason with nearly every villain in the game. Please provide an example of this statement because I don't see this. Then please explain how they did it for the first 5-6 years of the game.

Yes, she did. It's in the dialogue after the assault on the tower when you take down Soo-Won in the open world. Aurene: Soo-Won, I...I sometimes think about everything that happened to your children—if there was some other way— Soo-Won: No, they were bound to their nature. Soo-Won: But in that brief time we had together, before their fated purpose set in, it was...blissful. Soo-Won: But the truth is, as I'd look down at them, sleeping soundly, I was already mourning them. She created them mindless (which makes no sense because Jormag was intelligent) forces of nature. As living tools to fight the void. Soo-Won: I didn't want to hurt anyone. Aurene: What is this place? Soo-Won: It was the beginning... Soo-Won: Where I brought my children into being when all was timeless, cold, and empty... Soo-Won: And with their coming, I watched as the world grew all around...full of hope in the warmth of a maturing sun. Aurene: Primordus, Kralkatorrik, the others...they were all here as the world formed? Soo-Won: A while, yes. I created them as tools—mindless as Nature—to stay the Void's unrelenting push toward entropy... She is an incredible villain. The Ex-Machina Dragon who caused untold billions to die under the Dragon cycle for the "greater good." As I played through the story, I had no sympathy for this Dragon but I felt the writers wanted me to have sympathy for her... which is insane. There was clearly another way to stave off the void and an all-encompassing, creationist Elder Dragon didn't figure it out... her offspring and the races of Tyria did. What ludicrous writing. Neither of these factions are "evil" to those within the groups. They are groups that have very chaotic neutral views of the world. The Nightmare Court think of the Dream as a fixed destiny of which they want no part. They want all Sylvari to be free to do whatever they want. Their whole dilemma is fighting destiny. Scarlet was the greatest example of this... she discovered they were meant to be slaves to Mordremoth and it drove her to try and rip control from everyone's hands. Do they go about it wrong? Sometimes. But evil? No. The Inquest is the same. They are completely chaotic neutral. They love and dedicate their entire lives to science. This love causes a decreased value of human life because they put expanding their knowledge over everything else--even themselves. The same thing is seen in the real world where people operate on small animals, mutilate them, use chemicals, etc. but advancements in science are made off their work. They don't see it as evil, in fact, they see it as doing what others will not for the betterment of the world. So I completely disagree with your premise that these groups are evil. Again, this is never mentioned pre-EoD. Not once. This appears to have been written in haste or drastically altered from another direction the story was going. I believe the void was the endgame, but this was not the route it was supposed to go. I can think of so many different ways this could have been better written, but it's not my story. I wish I could say the same. Joko was a massive narcissist with somewhat good intentions of giving people eternal life... at the cost of their freedom. In many ways, you could even view this transformation as a way to combat the dragons without loss of life. I would guess he would have viewed the Dragon cycle as a necessity... and that corrupting it would destroy the world. He just wanted to live through the dragon crap. But to say that his phrase defined how we "messed up Elona" is a bit ridiculous. Elona was never cut off from the world. He was stating how he would change history to make him the hero... just like the event in Vabbi where the Actors portraying Turai Ossa and Joko's fight on the Bridge in Kourna in GW1 ends with Joko winning... but in reality, he lost. Yeah. He get no depth as a character, gets talked down to from all other authorities, not a single accomplishment is ever listed that he performed...but hey, he's got a dog. OH! HE'S SO HUMAN NOW! Trash. Writing. Oh dear God... I thought I was the only one that noticed that piece... It's so kitten racist. But hey, maybe they have Dogs?

So, I think I made a mistake. Not remembering what was my Home Instance, I used an Orichalcum Mining Node I got from a BLC forgetting that I already had one (I forget there's a Home Instance a lot). When I went to check, there was no additional node. I was hoping it might transform my regular node into a rich node... but it did not. Did I waste that node/gold? It didn't have any red text telling me I already had the node... so why would the game allow me to do this? I can't reuse skins I get that I already have... so what gives? Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

I agree this is subjective because some people don't care about the story. However, it's a large part of the game for me. Uhh, which purists were painted "good?" I disagree with this wholeheartedly. I think the villains before (apart from Zhaitan) all had far more depth, character, development, and passion than anything that was in EoD. Soo-Won, this supposed "Mother" Dragon, is quite literally the worst character in the game thus far. Not only did she KNOWINGLY bring 5 wildly evil and destructive forces into Tyria because "she was lonely," but she stood idle while they ravaged the world and all the life upon it... I guess because she loved them? It's insane to believe love is the acceptance of any and all behaviors. Love INCLUDES reprimand! Reprimand and discipline guides children in the right direction. But she just said "Meh. At least I'm not lonely." Not to mention Soo-Won is NEVER mentioned in previous lore. There is speculation the Quaggan and Krait moved out of the sea due to her awakening, but it could have as easily been because of Zhaitan. I believe she was an "ex machina" Elder Dragon that was written up with haste because their writers had written themselves into a corner with IBS. I won't go too far with this one because I'll be writing my review for EoD soon to follow up from my OP.

That's your question/argument? Flair. The same animations is boring and at the beginning, Anet really loved to make unique, notable actions. I am confident gender had nothing to do with the development of those moves. I genuinely do not know what you mean by this. Is there something defining regarding the /sit emote? Again, this is a strange argument for inclusiveness. Are you arguing that because you can't modify the behavioral actions of your character due to their race/sex in-game, they're not inclusive? Or not inclusive enough?