[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:can you not wrap up this thread by simply saying:

• Existing raids and envoy gear should be unique as per other content types in game.
• Lots of people miss out on 10 man instances because they don't like the current tuning of raid, therefore it would be nice if we had lower tuned mode raids that they (and everyone else) can enjoy. This raid would offer legendary gear that takes as long as it takes to get legendary in say wvw. this should not be Envoy gear.

when you look at this without the selfish hat on, Everyone wins. Raids have greater take-up, meaning potential more investment by Anet to build more raids for all and everyone gets access to 10 man content at a tuning level that suits.

I think even those who think an easy mode is not necessary (like me) could be ok with said easy mode, if it doesn't give the same rewards the normal mode gives. It all comes down to rewards, those should be given according to the difficulty level. If it's the case, in my opinion, even if we don't like the idea of an easy mode, we can go a little "whatever" at it. I mean, we would probably still complain a little, or be opposed to it, because we genuinely think an easy mode is a bad idea -but it would be a less fierce opposition.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:You can't paint was not there to start with.

As many others pointed out on this very topic, the entitled toxic elitist where here long before Anet put in raids. They were also the ones that kept asking for raids.

Sry, with that statement you are disqualifying yourself from the discussion once again. A lot of players that were asking for more challenging content are friendly people, helping others in the game, leading guilds and made very good suggestions and a lot of bug reports that improved the game.They just wanted to have a bit of challenge in the game and not only brainless open world bosses/events you can handle with pressing one button.

And nobody has a problem with those people, or wants to take anything away from them. The existing raids should stay 100% intact.

The

toxic

players are the ones who demand that the existing version of the raids be the

only

version available to

anyone,

that an easy mode cannot be provided, or that if it is, it must be hobbled so that it fails to serve many of the functions players require of it.

I was going to link a gif of Britney Spear's 'Toxic' song here, but I'm too sleepy and I don't want to google it.

You think we're toxic, we think you're the toxic one because you demand to have your desired shinies in your desired game mode, in your desired level of difficulty. Yeah bringing raids to more people experiencing the content letting people choose blablabla but in the end you just want the Envoy and won't settle for less.

Yes.. How evil of him to want to open the game up to more players.. truly the epitome of being toxic is wanting an inclusive game.

We have been over this subject matter already, care to try and new venture or are you all out of new ideas?

and just for you.. here is Carson from the Avengers.. doing Toxic.

You said it yesterday. We are ALL broken records. If Ohoni keeps saying the same again and again and again, he receives the same again and again and again.

Have you ever stopped to ponder Ohoni says the same things, because you all are saying the same things? I mean really, how unique a response can you give to the same retort you have heard a dozen times already, each time by someone that thinks they are being so original, when.. they are not.

This is a discussion.. not a scripted encounter,.. but this does show why people who wanted

challenge

couldn't move on to PvP which requires fluid response, as opposed to doing the same thing.. time and time and time again.

We can flip your sentence. Have you ever stopped to ponder I say the same things, because Ohoni is saying the same things?

But anyway, I've been here giving ideas to improve raids, I've even discussed some ideas about easy mode and the rewards it should give (but you didn't see it because you were banned at the time), I've been discussing some alternative ideas like a "wing 0" or a training mode... I'm not just saying the same all the time, but what I don't and won't, absolutely, never buy is an easy mode that gives all the shinies that normal raids have. And it seems that this is the only thing that Ohoni will accept.

Btw, I can't see any sense in what you say about PvP. I played PvP since I joined this game (around 2 years) and got into raiding 1 year ago. I was not part of those players who asked for challenge content.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"Kilamanjaro.2705" said:And as long as LFG is full of kills/instances for sale for unreasonable prices........Nothing the "leave raids alone" crowd says will have any bearing on my opinion that the system is broken.C'mon, open lfg, a few times a day, collect the average selling prices, report them here and choke on your hypocrisy

I bet if ANet made raidselling a bannable offense, most of the opposition to easy modes would just suddenly dry up.

I would SO take that bet.

Deal! Let's make it happen, ANet!

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"Kilamanjaro.2705" said:And as long as LFG is full of kills/instances for sale for unreasonable prices........Nothing the "leave raids alone" crowd says will have any bearing on my opinion that the system is broken.C'mon, open lfg, a few times a day, collect the average selling prices, report them here and choke on your hypocrisy

I bet if ANet made raidselling a bannable offense, most of the opposition to easy modes would just suddenly dry up.

I would SO take that bet.

Me as well. Easy moneys.

We got two on board, who would be in charge of this one, Chris?

The money they spend buying kills would be the money we'd win by betting.

Prices go from (around) 20-30 mystic coins the easier bosses to a few hundreds btw. It is not that expensive. But even paying 20 mystic coins for a Cairn kill feels absurd to me, since it doesn't take too much effort nor time to learn and kill that boss.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:You can't paint was not there to start with.

As many others pointed out on this very topic, the entitled toxic elitist where here long before Anet put in raids. They were also the ones that kept asking for raids.

Sry, with that statement you are disqualifying yourself from the discussion once again. A lot of players that were asking for more challenging content are friendly people, helping others in the game, leading guilds and made very good suggestions and a lot of bug reports that improved the game.They just wanted to have a bit of challenge in the game and not only brainless open world bosses/events you can handle with pressing one button.

And nobody has a problem with those people, or wants to take anything away from them. The existing raids should stay 100% intact.

The

toxic

players are the ones who demand that the existing version of the raids be the

only

version available to

anyone,

that an easy mode cannot be provided, or that if it is, it must be hobbled so that it fails to serve many of the functions players require of it.

I was going to link a gif of Britney Spear's 'Toxic' song here, but I'm too sleepy and I don't want to google it.

You think we're toxic, we think you're the toxic one because you demand to have your desired shinies in your desired game mode, in your desired level of difficulty. Yeah bringing raids to more people experiencing the content letting people choose blablabla but in the end you just want the Envoy and won't settle for less.

Yes.. How evil of him to want to open the game up to more players.. truly the epitome of being toxic is wanting an inclusive game.

We have been over this subject matter already, care to try and new venture or are you all out of new ideas?

and just for you.. here is Carson from the Avengers.. doing Toxic.

You said it yesterday. We are ALL broken records. If Ohoni keeps saying the same again and again and again, he receives the same again and again and again.

This will mix things up.... Banana!

Nevermind my post don't work : D delete pls(?)

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:You can't paint was not there to start with.

As many others pointed out on this very topic, the entitled toxic elitist where here long before Anet put in raids. They were also the ones that kept asking for raids.

Sry, with that statement you are disqualifying yourself from the discussion once again. A lot of players that were asking for more challenging content are friendly people, helping others in the game, leading guilds and made very good suggestions and a lot of bug reports that improved the game.They just wanted to have a bit of challenge in the game and not only brainless open world bosses/events you can handle with pressing one button.

And nobody has a problem with those people, or wants to take anything away from them. The existing raids should stay 100% intact.

The

toxic

players are the ones who demand that the existing version of the raids be the

only

version available to

anyone,

that an easy mode cannot be provided, or that if it is, it must be hobbled so that it fails to serve many of the functions players require of it.

I was going to link a gif of Britney Spear's 'Toxic' song here, but I'm too sleepy and I don't want to google it.

You think we're toxic, we think you're the toxic one because you demand to have your desired shinies in your desired game mode, in your desired level of difficulty. Yeah bringing raids to more people experiencing the content letting people choose blablabla but in the end you just want the Envoy and won't settle for less.

Yes.. How evil of him to want to open the game up to more players.. truly the epitome of being toxic is wanting an inclusive game.

We have been over this subject matter already, care to try and new venture or are you all out of new ideas?

and just for you.. here is Carson from the Avengers.. doing Toxic.

You said it yesterday. We are ALL broken records. If Ohoni keeps saying the same again and again and again, he receives the same again and again and again.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:You can't paint was not there to start with.

As many others pointed out on this very topic, the entitled toxic elitist where here long before Anet put in raids. They were also the ones that kept asking for raids.

Sry, with that statement you are disqualifying yourself from the discussion once again. A lot of players that were asking for more challenging content are friendly people, helping others in the game, leading guilds and made very good suggestions and a lot of bug reports that improved the game.They just wanted to have a bit of challenge in the game and not only brainless open world bosses/events you can handle with pressing one button.

And nobody has a problem with those people, or wants to take anything away from them. The existing raids should stay 100% intact.

The

toxic

players are the ones who demand that the existing version of the raids be the

only

version available to

anyone,

that an easy mode cannot be provided, or that if it is, it must be hobbled so that it fails to serve many of the functions players require of it.

I was going to link a gif of Britney Spear's 'Toxic' song here, but I'm too sleepy and I don't want to google it.

You think we're toxic, we think you're the toxic one because you demand to have your desired shinies in your desired game mode, in your desired level of difficulty. Yeah bringing raids to more people experiencing the content letting people choose blablabla but in the end you just want the Envoy and won't settle for less.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Raizel.8175 said:So...

After that Overhaul-raids-thread is dead now and I don't want to read 67 pages here... Any new arguments here or is it just the usual repetition?

Oh, and to the armor-faction: I'm probably still fairly new to the game, started raiding approx. 2 months ago, but was able to craft my first armor-piece this week. The worst part of that are by far the Provisioner Token. You just have to want it and you'll get it.

Just the usual repetition.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@"Ohoni.6057" said:You know what would fix that? An easy mode.

Maybe for some people, it would be the solution. But for some people, not all of them. It all depends on their wishes and desires and beliefs about raids. I mean, some different situations may occur that makes a player choose to stay trying in normal mode, or go easy mode:

a) The rewards they want and where they can be obtained. But not only that. If easy mode gave different rewards, it would be a matter of "which reward do I want". If easy mode gave the same rewards but slower in time, it would be a matter of "what is more valuable to me, getting a kill easily or obtaining the rewards faster". So, the player would always have a decision to make, and that could lead them either to easy mode or to stay in normal mode.

Then, let's say, a player decides to go easy mode. The rewards are less and different but they see easy mode as a way of training in order to then go normal mode and be more experienced there. When they go back to normal mode they will face the same problems they faced earlier on: bad accessibility and harder mechanics they won't be prepared to deal with.

b) Beliefs about raids. Yup. If there was an easy mode and a normal mode, there are (some/big) chances of easy mode being considered inferior, a "house of noobs", blabla bad reputation. This can make a player stay in normal mode, if they believe in those sayings about easy mode. "I don't want to be considered a noob/bad player bc of playing in easy mode".

Another thing that, in my opinion, is important. This "training, know mechanics" is something VERY usual in GW2. It's not only in raids. If you see fractals LFG, and see a training there (although trainings are very few), they will ask you to know the mechanics. And if the group is completely unexperienced, the LFG will probably say something like "first time fractal XX". That is very healthy, I think. Because it allows the potential players that join to know beforehand what to expect from the group, so they can know if that group is what they're looking for or not. This avoids problems and frustration for everyone. Even if easy mode exists, this things will keep happening in normal mode.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Etria.3642 said:The trouble is not MY willingness to repeat the fights until I learn them. The trouble is the willingness of OTHER people. I really didn't believe in the 'toxicity' of the raiding community until I tried it. Wow. Show your achievements or you can't come. This is a learning raid but of we wipe twice I'm outta here for a experienced group. Race through the fight asap. Explain nothing. Voice? Ltp newb. Why don't you just buy a run if you don't know it. Not ready yet? Too bad we can get this fight down without you. Good luck next time.

It isn't the raid difficulty that needs fixing its the raiders.

Players have little patience and, unfortunately, the less experienced they are the less patience they have. I've seen some completely unexperienced guildmates complaining about playing with unexperienced people and not being able to get the kill, wanting experienced raiders to play with. And I'm like, wtf? You're a newbie but you expect experienced raiders to take you??? Some people also have too little patience, once they see that the kill won't come soon they just leave -it's a shame but you can't do anything, if they wish to go then it's their loss, replace them and keep trying.

What I do not agree on (sorry about that, but this is important and every newbie should understand it): you can't expect to be welcomed in a training group if you don't know ANYTHING about the boss. Do your homework and read a guide. If you don't know the basics of the boss, you're forcing someone else to explain them to you. And the fact that there's a training in the LFG does not necessarily mean that someone is training a group of people -it can mean someone has gathered more people in order to train. No one is obliged to explain the boss to you. You can't just join and expect them to do that.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@"Ohoni.6057" said:Yup. If raids are "just part of PvE", then WvW is just "open world PvP," and sPvP is just "instanced/dungeon PvP."

No. Raids are PvE and it's obvious -it has the same combat system as PvE, you access them via PvE-Open world, it uses the same build template as the rest of PvE. So > raids are PvE.

PvP and WvW are not accessible from the same place. PvP has its own areas, that you join by opening a specific menu. It has its own system and way of playing. WvW is accessible from a different menu -and some gates in Lion's arch-, has its own rules and system DIFFERENT from PvP and even has a different build template than PvP (talking about traits here).

So no, it can't be compared. You're comparing concepts ("playing against players" vs "playing against environment"), but the truth is that PvP and WvW are far more different than that and are played in completely different ways and places.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:But.. it's Sooooooo Ugly...

In sum total, yes, most of them are ugly. I would probably only take on bits and pieces of the light and mediums even if I had them. I like the heavy though, and would use all or most of the bits from that one.

@nia.4725 said:I literally do not use the griffon for anythig besides that use in raids xD

Yeah, but even just hopping around the Aerodrome would be fun!

Maybe. But I don't spend much time in the aerodrome nowadays, since I don't pug anymore. I just get into my squad and into the raid instance : v getting the griffon would be cool, but when I see those collections it's like... Nope thank you. I hate items tied to events.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:Since they are essentially "skinless", as in they do not have an unique Legendary Skin (They have the same skin as their Ascended Counterpart) you can do anything you want with them an not feel the least bit guilty about transmuting them, I plan to keep my main (a guard) looking the same no matter what tier of armor they have, so, in essence the fact these are Skinless Legendarily are not an issue for me.

I had no issue transmuting Legendaries. I put the Ascension skin onto one character's Exotic backpack, and then I put the Mad King's Memoirs skin on the actual Ascension, so that the backpack I passed around to people would also be a torch.

@nia.4725 said:I don't have the griffon. And I won't get it until I'm too tired of using the springer to get to the Eater of Souls statue in W5. It's the one and only use the griffon would have for me. I hate OW enough to avoid getting the mount.

That's sad. It can be accomplished in less time than clearing a single raid encounter for the first time, and flying the griffon, even for entirely pointless reasons, is one of the most fun gameplay elements in the game.

@"Sarrs.4831" said:No, it's resetting. They've explicitly stated that they design fights around target times; bosses' health is a direct product of the increase in power, effectively resetting them whenever a new tier of raid is released.

So do they actually make it take longer to beat the

same

bosses in these games, or do they just add

new

bosses that take as long to kill as the old ones did before you'd geared up? If the latter, that is not resetting, that's just raiding the bar. Basically [

reducing

what you

already have

], and [

increasing

what new content requires of you] are two completely distinct concepts.

Even if we were to take the "WoW has a stat treadmill, GW2 has an appearance treadmill" argument as correct, it's still a falsehood because under this argument as WoW also has an appearance treadmill which is worse than GW2's because there are many items in the game that become either extremely difficult or impossible to obtain as expansions roll over.

The fact that it has both does not take away from GW2 having the treadmill in effect. I'm not saying that GW2 is "worse," I'm just saying that it could be better than it is.

If this is the model that you prefer - content being made easier as time passes - then GW2 is not for you. GW2 is 100% built around evergreen content.

I don't particularly prefer the content getting easier over time, I just want the content to be easy

enough

from the start, which raids, currently, are not. I just see "the content gets easier over time" to be superior to "the content will

never

be easy enough."

All this could be solved by just adding an easy mode.

You should play WoW instead; it already has everything you want, and it seems like you haven't played it before so it'll be a fun new experience for you.

Nah. And actually I did play WoW in beta and for several months after, but I got burned out toward the late game for reasons that GW2 fixed. I do think that GW2 is the better game, but if they're going to borrow raids from WoW, then they should also borrow the parts that make them accessible.

Also I don't have the Griffon. The other mounts do everything I need.

Seriously? You guys are boggling my mind. How can you play GW2 and not have a griffon?

I literally do not use the griffon for anythig besides that use in raids xD

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:Doesn't matter. You can't rely on arbitrarily defined, self-imposed "challenges" for long. I mean, sure, they are a nice distraction, or a change of pace. But they don't work in the long run, because ultimately they have no meaning beyond what you personally assign them, and that wears off.

Nothing in a game has any meaning beyond what you personally assign to them.

Also, no matter how many time you repeat that, it's still going to be wrong. The game gives equal opportunity to everyone.

But not everyone has equal opportunity to engage that content. A 5ft high door frame provides everyone "equal opportunity" to enter and leave it, but it presents unreasonable difficulties to plenty of people who are taller than that.

You are perfectly capable of setting up your own squad, advertising it on LFG and "engaging" the content.

But not for that attempt to

succeed.

Attempting the content without success is pointless.

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:I see : / Then I hope you have the griffon or a kind friend, getting to the last step of that ring is impossible without it.

Yeah I have the Griffin. No issues there.

Who doesn't have a griffon in 2018?

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:Farms will always be popular, that has nothing to do with the need for the game to provide challenge.

Any objections if the next two trinkets are from spvp and wvw?

Prob should ask the pvp/wvw community, last I heard they hated the "filthy casuals that plagued their game mode" last time a unique reward was added to their mode spcifically

Didn’t stop me from pvping.

My experience is from wvw. The last time they got new blood (the pip system's introduction) my guild at the time wanted all the new blood gone as they were holding queues and weren't very good at following commands or getting on ts. They badically saw and used the new people as cannon fodder. They just couldn't wait for the new people that came in to just quit the game mode.

People who don't want to be there can't be expected to participate in good faith. If you bribe people to do content they don't want to do, they'll show up, but they won't enjoy themselves, and they'll create a toxic atmosphere for everyone around them. This is why bribing players to play content is not a sound strategy.

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:Not sure what you're asking here.

In a game like WoW, you progress by earning higher item level, and the game pulls you back in relative power by buffing the monsters with each raid cycle, or by knocking your stats down at the beginning of the new expansion. This is why it is a treadmill; you progress and then your progress is reset.

Where, exactly, does GW2 pull you back?

That's not "resetting," that's just them adding new stuff, making the stuff you have less useful to you. And it cuts both ways, since they also tend to add easier to acquire starter gear, which allows players to catch up. But the GW2 equivalent? They add new skins all the time, so if I work hard today and unlock a fancy backpack or armor, they might add a newer skin that would look much better, like how I got the CM dungeon Council Guard Helm, but then later upgraded to the Glorious Plate Helm. Same principle.

I don't have the griffon. And I won't get it until I'm too tired of using the springer to get to the Eater of Souls statue in W5. It's the one and only use the griffon would have for me. I hate OW enough to avoid getting the mount.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:Farms will always be popular, that has nothing to do with the need for the game to provide challenge.

Any objections if the next two trinkets are from spvp and wvw?

I wouldn't care at all.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

I’m going for full Legendary.

So raid like everyone else. The ring isn't even hard, all it takes is a single clear of W5.

And spending minutes sitting in some parts of PoF maps, and buying some mats that cost around 50 gold, and trying to reach that stupid NPC sorrounded by invisible walls.

Not much, but still more than a single clear of W5. And pugging Dhuum isn't that easy xDD

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

I’m going for full Legendary.

I see : / Then I hope you have the griffon or a kind friend, getting to the last step of that ring is impossible without it.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Tyson.5160 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ?

No argument, Evoy is truly ugly.

It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application.

In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor.

Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change.

Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad.

Kinda like how gw1 is now.

What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic.

As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace.

Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too.

Why? o,o

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Ohoni.6057 said:That's not true either. Different people have different capacities. The challenge in GW2 is not so high that most players can meet and exceed it, if they try, but there are people who lack the capacity to meet that standard, there are theoretical standards that most players could never reach, and for those that can meet the standards through hard work and dedication, plenty of other people could achieve the same results without even trying. Everyone is different. Rather than trying to squeeze everyone into the same box, accept players for their differences, and encourage them to play in the way that they enjoy playing.

Another one assuming some people are idiots.

Let's see, Ohoni. It's so obvious I feel embarrassed to be here telling you this.

Different people have different capacities. That's obvious.

But that means that the amount of effort they will need to do in order to do raids will vary from one person to another. That DOES NOT mean that some people will be able to raid and some won't.

No one lacks the capacity to meet the standard unless some other non-related issue prevents them from doing so (like a disability, color blindness, etc). Everyone else is able to learn and raid, even though the amount of time needed to learn will be different for every person.

We're not talking here about anything else than capacity. And, as for capacity, everyone has it.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@nia.4725 said:Do you really feel entitled to have a full easy mode game?

Yes!

We come to this game for an all easymode game! That's why we aren't playing a hard mode game. If we wanted hard mode, we'd be playing something else! Having a game that is 99% one thing and then 1% another is the worst, because it means that people who enjoy most of the game have some portion forever closed off to them. This is why we need an easy mode, so that 100% of the game is open to those who enjoy most of it.

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

But you have the skills, time, twitch skill, and resources to do said content, as such, it is purely a matter of you not wanting to do it, not a matter of lacking the capacity on any level to do it,. Many casuals do not have the time, twitch skill, or resources to do raids.

As such, you have 100% of the game open to you.. others do not.

If you firmly believe that 100% of the players can do raids, then they are not any more special then say getting a PoI, but, we all know that Raids are designed to be hard content, and this by definition have a limited number of players that can do them.

The real question is not if raids need an easy mode, as the Devs have said they won't change raids, but why are we paying for content that we can't play?

You can play anything, but may have chosen not to, others can't.

In any case, anyone looking to get Legendary Armor, I encourage you to try WvW, it is a very open way to progress, and like many of the best parts of GW2, you can make progress at your own pace, and as long as you contribute, you will gain.

Raids are done and dead content, they will not change, but, there are other paths, and I hope anyone reading this topic feeling discouraged about Raids, checks out WvW.

You either are deminishing yourself and your skills, or simply using this as a fake argument. I can't get to understand why'd you argue this, really. Like.

When I started raiding I did not have ANY skill. Raiders aren't born being raiders and having skills, you know. In my case, I was a PvE casual. I had only done what any casual does: map metas, OW events, things like that. I played PvP too, but never got past silver. And GW2 was my very first MMO, so you can imagine how my skill was, but if you still need me to tell you I'll do it: it was non-existent. I'm very good at understanding things, but my practical skill is limited and I need a good amount of time to develop that.

I wasn't any different from any current OW casual player, because I was an OW casual player.

Resources? Nope. I had only 1 ascended set, my ele berserker's set. All my other toons were on exotics. And it's funny because I only lasted like 3 weeks playing ele. I hated it so much that I decided to go druid, and raided with druid, in FULL EXOTICS I got from Orr. How is that having resources. I only had resources when I got lucky and a black lion chest gave me a permanent bank contract that I sold for a lot of gold, and I spent all of it in crafting a full ascended set for my druid.

So resources? Nay. Skills? Hahahahaha #no. Like really. I was bad. Plain bad. Real bad.

I have resources now that I've been raiding for more than a year. I have skills now, that I've been raiding for more than a year. Now, not then.

Ohoni was saying that he doesn't have the 100% of the game open to him, because raids is not a content he enjoys, and there's not a version of it that he can enjoy, so he has not the 100% of the game available to him. That isn't any different from me saying the same about open world. But it's an incorrect statement. We ALL have the 100% of the game, and lock ourselves out of content because of internal decisions and beliefs about ourselves. EVERYONE has the capacity to raid, EVERYONE has the capacity to learn -even if you can't raid properly at the start (few can), you are able to learn. If you're not interested in learning, that's up to you. But you always have the capacity.

100% of players can raid, yes, if they are willing to make some amount of effort and learn a little. And yes raids are harder content, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Raids require learning, but everyone can learn. Nobody here is an idiot incapable of learning. So, you cannot say that you or anyone can't raid or that the 100% of the game isn't available to you.

So, continuing to read your post: you are paying to have access to the game, and claiming that you cannot play a part of the game (raids) is completely false. You CAN raid, unless you define "being able to raid" as entering the boss and being able to defeat it just by "doing whatever". But why would you do that? Some parts of every game are always harder than others so sometimes you need to learn and sharpen your skills a little. DOes that mean you can't play that content? Hell no.

Every time you say that some people can't raid, I feel you're just assuming they're idiots.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@"nia.4725" said:

I've had some problems with this, too. At first, because I had to always play druid. It's my main and I love it, but it isn't fun having to play always the same profession. Then it happened with my handkiter rev. I hate having to play something in particular because no one else can. However, I don't think an easy mode so dumbed down that those roles aren't necessary anymore isn't the solution. It would solve your problem with not being able to play thief (although, honestly, thief is viable in the current raids), but it wouldn't solve my problem. I mean, it would not solve every diversity problem. You will also need boons, you will always need a handkiter, you will always need a tank.

So, I agree - somewhat! The reason you always need to play the same profession is because Druid is that strong - it is a balancing issue and one that Anet has had three years to fix (along with Chronomancer being 20% of a necessary raid composition and the necessity of Warriors because they too bring overpowered passive buffs). It is clear that this is a real challenge for Anet to resolve as even after this period of time and the introduction of a raft of new Elite professions (that could have brought non-stacking Banner- or Spirit-like buffs or offered an alacrity plus quickness combo) there hasn't been much advance aside from making balance decisions regarding Grace of the Land that should have been resolved in HoT beta and entrenching Warrior and Druid by creating unique 10 man buffs.

So without the option of balance that is anywhere close to equitable (and I guess Thief is on the absolute cusp of viable), an easier mode which wouldn't require wonderful boon uptimes or banners and could allow for off-meta comps for people to mess around with on a Friday night following clearing on a Monday would be quite nice - especially if it meant being able to involve less experienced family and friends. Sure, you'd still need a handkiter but perhaps with the reduced damage and mechanics of an "easy" mode that could be pretty much anyone rather than that Herald I get to pull out for Deimos and River of Souls before she gathers dust.

Of course, I wouldn't encourage an easy mode without, at the minimum, repeatable CMs.

Yeah, we have very bad balance profession and anet should adress these issues ASAP. I don't think they will do it, tho. My guess is that, even though the community rages a lot about the dominance of chronos, druids and warriors, this issue can't be solved unless you break them... and the community wouldn't like it, at all. I mean, how can a profession be a good alternate option to chrono? They would need to give us an entirely new profession, or kill chronos as we know them right now. And if that happened, the raiding community would go absolutely, completely mad.

But I have to admit that the latest changes to druid made them dispensable. Yes, it's still very strong, but they're not essential anymore if you run an alternate composition capable of providing what druid provides. Right now, frost spirit is just a 5% buff and that isn't that necessary. Might can be provided by other professions, as well as healing. You just need to think carefully. But it's true that druids are still and will remain meta, specially in pug groups, because people just know them more. Few people will be able to think about an alternate composition. I'm lucky to have a raid leader who likes creating builds and comps, so we currently do some bosses without a single druid. And when we do have druid, it's just one. What I mean with this is that there's a difference between what is doable and what people actually do. Raids with alternate builds, alternate comps, no druids... are doable, but what will 90% of raiders do? They'll just run what they have always run, unless the change Anet introduces to the professions is so big, SO BIG, that they have no choice other than change compositions. And anet should think about the latter -the majority will just keep using 2 chronos, 2 druids (even if only 1 is necessary) and 1 warrior. If they want to balance things and introduce more profession diversity they need to make REAL changes. Until now, we haven't had a single significant change, something that really shakes the meta and forces it to change. Chrono is just too unique and too strong. Yup, healers may be changed in some bosses, but chrono is still the King and Queen of PvE Raids and, it seems to me, will be for a long time. Not that I'm hating chrono, I actually love playing it and I wouldn't like getting it destroyed XD.

Now, getting back to easy mode raids... I'm really not a fan of patching things. An easy mode to allow more diversity is a patch to cover the huge issue we have with balance, and I don't like it. If there's an issue, resolve the issue, don't patch it. That's just ugly. I get your idea of having a more relaxed version of raids, and that aspect of easy mode is somehow appealing, but it would be used to farm rewards and I don't think it would help raids at all, nor it would bring new people to normal mode raids. It would be like those expectation/reality memes, in my opinion.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@nia.4725 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:So you know how the world maps works and if it supports multiple instances of maps (normal and easy would not use the same map as you stated)?

Again, it's nothing that they aren't already doing in the game. For example, they have the Personal Story versions of the open world maps, there is no reason to believe it would be non-trivial to do a direct copy-paste of the existing raids and make them functional. The only part that would take

actual

work would be tweaking them to be easier, and the

amount

of work that would take is highly debatable.

There is a pretty good reason to assume that it will be a huge workload. A red post that said exactly that.Raid entrances and personal story don't work even remotely the same.

well it cant be a huge workload, if there are 400 people working on GW2 and only 8 people to create all the raids you have today. The effort would be a one off up front cost to resolve any issues when running the clones instances alongside each other. After that its number tweaking.

It's not only that, and it's obvious. You don't even need to know anything about game design... just try to have some common sense.

But even if you don't, as you have already shown, you can go back to what Gaile Gray said.

Do you perchance have Gaile's actual quote?

Nope. I can't find it, I don't remember the details (the exact words and the place it was posted) to be able to search it. It was something like all things in development need resources, and that those resources are more than what we can imagine. That those resources would need to be moved from somewhere else, so if you give resources to one thing, you are taking them from one another.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@"Miatela.5047" said:While I'd be in favour of more raid difficulties (at the minimum, repeatable CMs for slightly less loot), the biggest barrier I'm facing as someone that can get into groups and has seen all the current content is the expectation that I'll be happy not playing my main (Thief) and rerolling to Chronomancer or Druid as the group needs.

This is particularly unfun when both of these professions have been staples for three years and there aren't alternatives for the Chronomancer role and only variation in secondary healers, not Might provision. The raid content is becoming stale due to lack of meta shifts, equitable balance in both dps and especially support and a lack of alternatives and I'm seriously considering leaving GW2 for a game where I can actually play my main in high end content without constantly being asked to switch to something else.

Though it wouldn't fix the issue, I'd happily take an easier raid difficulty if it meant I could legitimately experience the content with off-meta compositions or professions and playstyles I truly enjoy instead of needing to switch to Druid or Chrono. While I'd adore to run Might share Deadeye and two non-Druid healers in "normal" difficulty raids alongside a Chronomancer alternative (whatever that might finally be), I'd settle for being able to do that in easier runs if Anet isn't willing to properly balance because PvE is becoming dull, restrictive and frustrating currently.

I've had some problems with this, too. At first, because I had to always play druid. It's my main and I love it, but it isn't fun having to play always the same profession. Then it happened with my handkiter rev. I hate having to play something in particular because no one else can. However, I don't think an easy mode so dumbed down that those roles aren't necessary anymore isn't the solution. It would solve your problem with not being able to play thief (although, honestly, thief is viable in the current raids), but it wouldn't solve my problem. I mean, it would not solve every diversity problem. You will also need boons, you will always need a handkiter, you will always need a tank.

My (not the best and not always working) solution to this is refusing to play something else. If I'm pugging, I will join as whatever I want to play and, if the commi asks me if I can play chrono or druid or whatever, I'll just say no. If I'm raiding with my static, I'll be more flexible, but I'll ask my raid leader to not make me play that role I don't want to play unless it's completely necessary.

It's a shame anet does not fix this issue, but it's a very complex issue, and it can't be solved easily. I don't think an easy mode will make this any better.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:So you know how the world maps works and if it supports multiple instances of maps (normal and easy would not use the same map as you stated)?

Again, it's nothing that they aren't already doing in the game. For example, they have the Personal Story versions of the open world maps, there is no reason to believe it would be non-trivial to do a direct copy-paste of the existing raids and make them functional. The only part that would take

actual

work would be tweaking them to be easier, and the

amount

of work that would take is highly debatable.

There is a pretty good reason to assume that it will be a huge workload. A red post that said exactly that.Raid entrances and personal story don't work even remotely the same.

well it cant be a huge workload, if there are 400 people working on GW2 and only 8 people to create all the raids you have today. The effort would be a one off up front cost to resolve any issues when running the clones instances alongside each other. After that its number tweaking.

It's not only that, and it's obvious. You don't even need to know anything about game design... just try to have some common sense.

But even if you don't, as you have already shown, you can go back to what Gaile Gray said.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"nia.4725" said:

entitled

adjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?

The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids.

@Feanor.2358 said:So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it?

I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else.

Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally

full

of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses.

But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman.

[Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@"nia.4725" said:Do you really feel entitled to have a full easy mode game?

Yes!

We come to this game for an all easymode game! That's why we aren't playing a hard mode game. If we wanted hard mode, we'd be playing something else! Having a game that is 99% one thing and then 1% another is the worst, because it means that people who enjoy most of the game have some portion forever closed off to them. This is why we need an easy mode, so that 100% of the game is open to those who enjoy most of it.

entitledadjective UK ​ /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving​feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are:

Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No?