Galactic.6453

I think the Phalanx armor is the closest and best to an aesthetically pleasing but also practical looking armor but only on the males.

Of course I like this game, that's why I'm ticked off that the reason I bought this xpac was gated behind 'gamble or pay a further $120 for a limited time to get the skin you want'. I already paid for the ultimate edition, why was this not included, if they were that desperate for cash? OK. First of all. Anet never promised Mount Skins with the expansion at all. I can't recall a single marketing device that stated mounts would even have skins. So you can't claim that first point. You bought PoF as it was advertised. Second of all, if they indeed are "strapped for cash" then why would they include something for free in a package that you bought without them including it? You see how that's silly right? (I still feel like most of you need business lessons ... "making money" isn't enough when you have bosses and investors and boards of directors) Now let me ask you something. Would you have bought PoF if they announced there would never be any mount skins? If you still would have, then just go ahead and pretend there aren't any mount skins. Boom. Have fun! Responses like yours are pretty much cementing my resolve never to spend a dime on ANet again, because they have enabled and encouraged this disingenuousness and condescension. Thanks for saving me money! Does logic often resolve you to not spend money in other realms? Or is logic just toxic to you in video games? People need to stop thinking with their hearts. This is a very emotional reaction to a very logical decision. And anyone who is against Anet trying to make more money, please work next week for free at your job. And never, ever ask for a raise. Lest you be yet another "greedy kitten", eh? Pretty kitten sure, that as consumers we have every right to have (and should have) a say and push back on whatever it is we're consuming. Lest we just bend over every time and say "Okay, they need the money - take it" @primatos.5413 said:kitten why are they allowed to sell somehing to 12 year old people anyway ? Make Game 16+ at least and say what u want .. it is a Gamble System and everybody knows There was a recent discussion with some board (same one that gives game ratings - "E" for everyone...) on loot boxes and gambling... Gist of it is that that board doesn't see loot boxes as gambling. And if they were, the rating would be set higher to Adult or something (maybe Mature) - screwing over a lot of games.The ESRB is funded by gaming companies. They are not a government organization. They obviously have an interest in a lot of games not being rated M. Not to mention that their argument for that was really flimsy at best. Would they even have any option with those questions? If they said 1 was for fun, most people wouldn't buy it, if they said it was for the money most people would hate them. And 2 is a 'yes' or 'no' answer with 'no' not being an option, same as 3.

Of course I like this game, that's why I'm ticked off that the reason I bought this xpac was gated behind 'gamble or pay a further $120 for a limited time to get the skin you want'. I already paid for the ultimate edition, why was this not included, if they were that desperate for cash? OK. First of all. Anet never promised Mount Skins with the expansion at all. I can't recall a single marketing device that stated mounts would even have skins. So you can't claim that first point. You bought PoF as it was advertised. Second of all, if they indeed are "strapped for cash" then why would they include something for free in a package that you bought without them including it? You see how that's silly right? (I still feel like most of you need business lessons ... "making money" isn't enough when you have bosses and investors and boards of directors) Now let me ask you something. Would you have bought PoF if they announced there would never be any mount skins? If you still would have, then just go ahead and pretend there aren't any mount skins. Boom. Have fun! Responses like yours are pretty much cementing my resolve never to spend a dime on ANet again, because they have enabled and encouraged this disingenuousness and condescension. Thanks for saving me money! Does logic often resolve you to not spend money in other realms? Or is logic just toxic to you in video games? People need to stop thinking with their hearts. This is a very emotional reaction to a very logical decision. And anyone who is against Anet trying to make more money, please work next week for free at your job. And never, ever ask for a raise. Lest you be yet another "greedy kitten", eh? Here you go with your strawman again. No one is against Anet making more money. It's against Anet making more money with dishonest means. Says who, you? Why is your opinion worth more than that of someone who predominantly likes the dressup? 1) How is it dishonest? You can't just throw words around. They have meaning. Anet never once lied. 2) So, again, your argument is that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who plays GW2 is playing it to play dress up? And that is the correct opinion. And my opinion that people have tons of different reasons to play is the one that needs to be defended. Man, public schools are really failing us, aren't they? But if you refuse to believe basic logic about GW2 reason to exist, here is Anet's take on it. Let me know how heavily "playing dress up" is featured in the write up: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/1) How about you read my entire post in the last page.2) No, that is not my opinion, not me, nor anyone ever implied that and you just argued against your statement because you seem to think that dressup is not a valid form of enjoying the game because it's not in the manifesto. And you seem to be unaware that before they launched that there were lots of blogposts on the old anet blog about the hundreds of dye channels and the ability to mix and match gear, so dressup is certainly part of their intention for the game. Edit well looks like the post is at the top of this page now

Of course I like this game, that's why I'm ticked off that the reason I bought this xpac was gated behind 'gamble or pay a further $120 for a limited time to get the skin you want'. I already paid for the ultimate edition, why was this not included, if they were that desperate for cash? OK. First of all. Anet never promised Mount Skins with the expansion at all. I can't recall a single marketing device that stated mounts would even have skins. So you can't claim that first point. You bought PoF as it was advertised. Second of all, if they indeed are "strapped for cash" then why would they include something for free in a package that you bought without them including it? You see how that's silly right? (I still feel like most of you need business lessons ... "making money" isn't enough when you have bosses and investors and boards of directors) Now let me ask you something. Would you have bought PoF if they announced there would never be any mount skins? If you still would have, then just go ahead and pretend there aren't any mount skins. Boom. Have fun! Responses like yours are pretty much cementing my resolve never to spend a dime on ANet again, because they have enabled and encouraged this disingenuousness and condescension. Thanks for saving me money! Does logic often resolve you to not spend money in other realms? Or is logic just toxic to you in video games? People need to stop thinking with their hearts. This is a very emotional reaction to a very logical decision. And anyone who is against Anet trying to make more money, please work next week for free at your job. And never, ever ask for a raise. Lest you be yet another "greedy kitten", eh?Here you go with your strawman again. No one is against Anet making more money. It's against Anet making more money with dishonest means. Says who, you? Why is your opinion worth more than that of someone who predominantly likes the dressup?

This right here is where you and others differ strongly. If this method actually does make the money for Anet you believe it will, what are the odds of us being able to get mounts any other way? They won't give us achievement mount skins when they can make money from the same art team effort. And face the fact, this is not a game about skill, it is a game about cosmetics, so access to those cosmetics really does impact the game design. Hmm. I would say since there currently is a skin for sale for 2000 gems without any RNG, that kinda kills your argument that "we won't be able to get mount SKINS any other way" ... right?? This is not a game about skill or cosmetics. It's a game about fun. If you have fun playing it, then you'll be glad that folks buying loot boxes might get you another expansion or two. If you don't have fun playing it, then why are you playing it. :P @pah.4931 said: This right here is where you and others differ strongly. If this method actually does make the money for Anet you believe it will, what are the odds of us being able to get mounts any other way? They won't give us achievement mount skins when they can make money from the same art team effort. And face the fact, this is not a game about skill, it is a game about cosmetics, so access to those cosmetics really does impact the game design. Hmm. I would say since there currently is a skin for sale for 2000 gems without any RNG, that kinda kills your argument that "we won't be able to get mount SKINS any other way" ... right?? This is not a game about skill or cosmetics. It's a game about fun. If you have fun playing it, then you'll be glad that folks buying loot boxes might get you another expansion or two. If you don't have fun playing it, then why are you playing it. :P There exist people in this world who have fun with dressing up their characters and in extension their mounts in an MMO that is about dressing up their characters and lose out on fun if they cannot dress them up the way they want without paying in a roundabout way for something while wasting most of the money, who'd have thunk? And some people really enjoy loot boxes. OK. Cool.In that case they can just put in an option for lootboxes for those who enjoy lootboxes and an option for direct purchase for those who enjoy having choice and it'd be perfect for everyone, right?

This right here is where you and others differ strongly. If this method actually does make the money for Anet you believe it will, what are the odds of us being able to get mounts any other way? They won't give us achievement mount skins when they can make money from the same art team effort. And face the fact, this is not a game about skill, it is a game about cosmetics, so access to those cosmetics really does impact the game design. Hmm. I would say since there currently is a skin for sale for 2000 gems without any RNG, that kinda kills your argument that "we won't be able to get mount SKINS any other way" ... right?? This is not a game about skill or cosmetics. It's a game about fun. If you have fun playing it, then you'll be glad that folks buying loot boxes might get you another expansion or two. If you don't have fun playing it, then why are you playing it. :P @pah.4931 said: This right here is where you and others differ strongly. If this method actually does make the money for Anet you believe it will, what are the odds of us being able to get mounts any other way? They won't give us achievement mount skins when they can make money from the same art team effort. And face the fact, this is not a game about skill, it is a game about cosmetics, so access to those cosmetics really does impact the game design. Hmm. I would say since there currently is a skin for sale for 2000 gems without any RNG, that kinda kills your argument that "we won't be able to get mount SKINS any other way" ... right?? This is not a game about skill or cosmetics. It's a game about fun. If you have fun playing it, then you'll be glad that folks buying loot boxes might get you another expansion or two. If you don't have fun playing it, then why are you playing it. :PThere exist people in this world who have fun with dressing up their characters and in extension their mounts in an MMO that is about dressing up their characters and lose out on fun if they cannot dress them up the way they want without paying in a roundabout way for something while wasting most of the money, who'd have thunk?

This isn't about needing to have anything. This is about wanting to be able to buy what you want to buy. No one is villifying Anet for wanting earn money. Doesn't mean people will be fine with them doing it with any means necessary. This is just a bad and manipulative business practice and calling them out for bad and manipulative business practice. It's as simple as that. No laws were broken, and I GUARANTEE YOU they are making more money this way. If you actually love this game, you would see that and be happy that this "manipulative" (lol) business practice is keeping the lights on. OK, so you don't get the shiny raptor you want, but maybe now you might get one more expansion before the game shutters. I don't want to go into another ROI business lesson in this thread, so suffice it to say... "making money" doesn't prevent companies from going under. They need to make "enough money" ... when budget time comes around and NCSoft has a few million to invest, it's looking more and more like that's going to be going to their mobile games which make about 400% more ROI than a huge, lunking, aging game like GW2. If I got 2 bucks to invest, why get a $.50 return when i could get a $4.25 return?? "Profitable" can still go under, guys. (p.s. calling someone bad and manipulative is kind of the exact definition of vilifying...)Yeah sure no laws were broken but that's completely irrelevant. No one is asking any government to shut them down.This makes more money you say, and have you thought why? Why would someone suddenly be inclined to buy more mount skins if they were in loot boxes than if they were sold outright? It's the same product inside. They aren't selling more because their product is better. What a mystery! Is it because, oh gosh, the mechanisms of a lootbox system flicks the right switches in people's brains to make them spend more and on things they would have not bought? And look, there's a word for controlling people for your own gain, it's manipulation. Here's what the mount RNG does wager and chance triggers the human dopamine systemit's possible to sell less valuable goods along with valuable goodspeople who only want some skins will inevitably end up buying some they would not have boughtwhile the chance of not getting a specific skin until the end is low, it is still very much possible and people will be thinking of that.this is where the limited thirty pack bundle comes in. Limited = scarcity = encourages impulse purchases. It is also cheaper than buying the whole thing, so people who're afraid of the worst case RNG are convinced into buying more than they need.at the same time, they offer the 2000 gems Warhound, which makes the RNG ticket look cheap, while at the same time the RNG ticket makes the Warhound look more appealing because it's direct purchase even for its extreme price.All of this is manipulation, there's no ways around it. And don't pretend they never thought of all that. It'd take an especially dense person to not know what's going on in the game industry, not know what their job as marketer entails and not know what they're even selling, and for it to also go through multiple instances of equally dense people who don't notice. On another note, why do you think they had gemstore sales so shortly after PoF preorders? Could it be that they wanted people to spend their preorder gems on as many impulse purchases as possible? Nah that can't be, no marketer would be smart enough to think of that, right? And your point about profit is completely beside the point. That it's only about the numbers game to the companies is exactly why people don't like lootboxes.

This isn't about needing to have anything. This is about wanting to be able to buy what you want to buy. No one is villifying Anet for wanting earn money. Doesn't mean people will be fine with them doing it with any means necessary. This is just a bad and manipulative business practice and calling them out for bad and manipulative business practice. It's as simple as that.

It's only 5 bucks per skin if you pay 100 bucks! Wow what a deal! Let's just ignore that you only wanted five of them and would have only paid 25 bucks and just got tricked into spending four times as much for things you didn't need!

Nothing "predatory" about this at all. That's just an exaggeration by inappropriately labeling something they don't like. If we break this down to $15/month, that's 3 skins per month and after 10 months, you get all the skins. Nothing unethical about that when other MMO charges a $15/mo fee to play their game on top of buying a copy of their expansion. $15/mo for 3 skins is very affordable. The problem here is that people want everything NOW even though they CAN'T AFFORD IT right now. I prefer it to be 250 gems a piece but I'm not too worked up if they keep the 400 gem price. The randomness is just a fun spin on the process. Affording it has nothing to do with it. Most people don't want to have all the mounts. They want some specific mounts. People who want all of them buy the whole pack anyway. Why do I have to pay money for things I don't want to try and get something I do want? The entire lootbox system is designed around selling you things you wouldn't buy otherwise, it's their entire point.It's not a fun spin, it's designed to push people's buttons into spending more money. That's why it's predatory. It's just marketing trickery.

There will definitely be more people wanting the super shiny particle mounts or those with model differences that, mind you, also have 4 dye channels. Compared to those other two types the plain retexture is clearly a lower value mount, both in demand and production time that's being sold for the same price and lowers the chances of getting the more high demand mounts.

I have one issue with this and it's that I wouldn't consider any of the current mounts to be "exotic". The regular retextures like the Coastal Spiketail would be ok as fine but I consider the Canyon Spiketail and the electric and flame ones as on the same tier, just appealing to different people. Something like the Forged Warhound would probably count as the highest tier but I'd want something more different on the exotic tier than just the raptor but with particles.

That's certainly not how their or NCSoft's marketing department works. Those people aren't stupid. They're professionals who do this as a full time job, they have done this for years, they research what all their competition does and research all statistics they can get their hands on and calculate all possible profits or losses. And it's not only one person, but multiple people who check and revise the system and suggestion. There's no way they didn't already think of all the points that were already posted in this thread and didn't know what people are thinking of lootboxes right now. And if they actually didn't do that I'd actually be even more disappointed in their competence as a company. And it's not all of Arenanet, I never said that. It's not a conspiracy that hundreds of Anet employees are in on. The artists who made the skins might have not known other than "it's going to go into the gemstore". But their marketing did and NCSoft certainly did. This thread isn't for getting actual feedback and suggestion to implement, it's for testing the waters with how mad people actually are and as a containment to let the anger simmer for a while. Even if we assume Anet was a ragtag bunch of friendly gamer folks who wouldn't exploit microtransactions, their parent company certainly isn't and their parent company's shareholders certainly aren't

Goodwill is something you earn, not something you deserve from the get go. If everyone was like you they'd just get stepped on at every corner and nothing would change because "surely it's a mistake they will change next time :)". If they change it, then they will have earned goodwill. Until then, having faith is useless. And it's not like this is just the doing of one person who made a honest mistake. This stuff goes through multiple people and multiple companies and its effects are thoroughly researched and profits are estimated. And there's no way they didn't know about all the hubbub in the industry about lootboxes right now. They have earned it. You are dismissing anything good they have done in the past. So from the point where they made this mistake, you just dismissed any good will they already had and reset it to zero so that they have to earn it again. Naturally, how much good will they have earned in the past varies from player to player but the general consensus has been that Anet/GW2 has been one of the most customer/player friendly games/companies out there. So your point has no validity. You are trying to use the "good will" argument by inverting it and implying they are only allowed to earn good will after making a mistake and everything they have done prior is irrelevant.Yes of course? They had my goodwill but destroyed it with this move. It's additive and this one was a huge negative. The fact that they seemed to be so customer friendly only makes this worse. I still like the game and I really like PoF though, I'm not the person who said PoF isn't worth buying because of this. And regardless of the fact, no goodwill can explain this away as being an unintentional mistake, only blindness.

Goodwill is something you earn, not something you deserve from the get go. If everyone was like you they'd just get stepped on at every corner and nothing would change because "surely it's a mistake they will change next time :)". If they change it, then they will have earned goodwill. Until then, having faith is useless. And it's not like this is just the doing of one person who made a honest mistake. This stuff goes through multiple people and multiple companies and its effects are thoroughly researched and profits are estimated. And there's no way they didn't know about all the hubbub in the industry about lootboxes right now.

You're wagering money for a chance to get something you want. It is gambling. And how is being glad they didn't do something even worse an argument for this being good? What people want is the ability to pay for something they want and not having to hope they don't draw the short stick. Just because this is their business startegy doesn't mean it has to be good. Imagine if you could buy all the mounts for a set price. People like you who want all or any of them get to have any of them, people who want to have specifics can have specifics. The key difference being that people aren't forced into buying things they don't want if they try to buy things they want.

@AnodicShadow.3647 said: Liking the game doesn't mean you have to like everything they do. Liking the game means you want it to develop into a good direction. This is business strategy is exploitative and people don't want it to continue like this. And not only is it irrelevant to argue about how much work was put into each skin, I seriously doubt those ticket mount skins even require more work than an entirely new glider, which are like 400-500 gems each.There are three types, retextures, skins with slightly modified models and skins with the same models but with particle effects.For the first one they only need to modify the color texture and draw four masks for each dye channel because everything else stays the same.For the modified models, they need to remodel and retexturize some parts of it but it's definitely not much more work than making a new glider from scratchAnd for the ones with particle effects, they need to make new textures or add some fancy shaders, and make and add some particle effects. The models are still the same. Just because it's sparkly and shiny doesn't necessarily mean it takes a lot of time to make them and you aren't getting a special deal because they're in lootboxes.The main reason for them to put the skins into lootboxes is to sell more bulk. If they sold them like gliders people would just buy the ones they want, but with RNG they can convince people to buy more skins than they would have in the upfront method. Most people aren't like you and just want any, they want a specific one or a specific few. It's just plain manipulative psychology.

I'm sure this is completely deliberate. They can sell triple the skins for much less work.The regular retexture skins should just be in a seperate pack like the halloween packs. Buy a pack, choose one retexture for each of your mounts. That way the people buying those will be the people who actually like and want those, instead of making people hate them because it's only a hurdle on their way to the super special sparkly skin.

Why're people talking about the production costs as if that matters in whether this is a bad move or not? If they're really struggling with money, which I don't believe any second, that simply would mean the current state of the game is a failure and they need change things. If a company failed in making money with their product it's not on the customer to accept shady business practices. But I'm absolutely certain this isn't even the case and most of the profit is going into NCSoft's pockets anyway. But back to the topic at hand, the problem about this is that it absolutely is designed to be predatory and manipulative and literally gambling. Let's not pretend Anet or NCSoft or whoever didn't have a psychologist behind this to make it as appealing as possible to buy multiples or even the whole pack. You have a 1/30 chance of getting a specific one you want, so it's entirely possible that you won't get the specific one until you buy the last box but, oh no, buying single licenses until you get the one you want could end up more expensive than buying the whole pack so you should just buy the whole pack, right? It's only a hundred bucks, what a steal!Some skins are obviously more desirable and "better" than others, like those with a different mesh or special particle effect, which means you'll be inclined to try again if you only got a "boring" one. This also means they can sell simple retextures most people wouldn't consider buying otherwise.Every ticket netting you an unique skin is pretty much just manipulating you into thinking it's a good deal. It's like stealing your wallet and then giving you back your ID cards you had inside, see how nice they are? This wouldn't even be needed if you could just choose what you want to buy. Plus it makes you think the next ticket is surely going to be the mount you want because the odds get raised by 1/30 every time you buy a ticket.Don't like the whole RNG thing? Don't you fret because we something just for you, the forged warhound for direct purchase for just 25 bucks!This isn't even treating you like a player or even a customer, just some dumb cattle to milk for money again and again. It doesn't matter if it's Anet's fault, or NCSoft's or their shareholder's fault, this isn't acceptable in any way.