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ArchonWing.9480

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Posts posted by ArchonWing.9480

  1. 10 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

    This tends to be a positive mechanic for an attacking fight group anyways, bags to farm cause like 75% of the time people wait until they already broke inner before pulling, so doubt anet would touch it.

    Another thing we can't really use because too much incompetence.

    Then again I screwed up an ewp pull because it went to repair the wall instead. Yea, about that tactivator placement.....

    And of course the UI sucks sometimes too. I tried to build siege and couldn't because it was trying to res another dead person. That shouldn't even be an option when you're in combat. Then again, I probably shouldn't be throwing siege on dead allies lol.

    All this crap that could be improved but we get this nonsense.

  2. On 5/2/2024 at 8:48 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

    It was as recent as yesterday I got accused of being a speed hacker. I was on my sb/dagger/warhorn condi bomber soulbeast which is sooooo sloooooow compared to my engineer running traited rocket boots, perma swiftness, +66% swiftness speed AND +25% move speed just in case swiftness is ripped.

    Guess I shouldnt have used the speed signet, ranger OP 🤷‍♂️

    I remember someone whispered me accusing me of hacking because we can hit hills inner wall and outer wall at the same time.

    My first thought was "Hey, is that a forumer?", and it was.

    I mean there's definitely hackers out there. But there's also more dumb players out there. 🤣

  3. PoF and things past it  was the era of flopping back and forth.

    You count as a necro shade, no you're not, yes you are.

    You need to cast your mantras, no you don't, yes you do.

    You give alacrity, no you don't, yes you do, no you don't, now everyone does, now most of them don't, now you do, now you still do, but badly.

    And then there is the state of Med Kit scrapper.... Somehow I think Engi and Mesmer mains must have trust issues at this point.

    If you do have trust issues, just play guardian. Part of the reason the class is functional is mostly because Anet just forgets about balancing it at all. And every time they do touch the class, something terrible happens.

    Or you can play warrior. They just outright delete your skills, so it simplifies the rotation.

    • Haha 4
  4. 5 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

    I don't know if that's true but it sure sounds that way with the questions being asked.

    Maybe the truth is that Anet is in fact making content more challenging for those who have had it too easy? I recall the days when defenders had to have defenses set up proactively, not rely upon tactivators that delay attackers so defenders have time to build siege or "set up a defense". Look around this forum at how many posts complain about the reductions to delay.

    Hmm, I would have a hard time believing that.

    And I wouldn't even shed a tear if every tactivator (especially watchtower) was deleted. That alone has probably been a -30 IQ to the average scout.

    I literally had someone on my recently ex-server (and thank God) tell us that NWT was lost because the EWP was wasted from a previous attack.  Not because anyone was attacking it.

    I told them we didn't because we still had watchtower (you know the one that shines all the way down there and can see any approach into the tower) but then they were like it's useless because they can cata from outside of its range. It's like no kitten? You need to have a scout there sometimes.  But then they tell me our scouts suck. Well duh. What are you doing? I have an idea. Why do you chill in the tower for the next 15 min?

    Of course we lose the tower in like 10m because people were defending Bay  and they cry about the EWP even though nobody was even there to pull it-- and certainly they weren't scouting a tower right outside of spawn, nor were they at Bay.

     

    Most of them are horribly designed and/or balanced.

    Though granted a lot of them have been rendered obsolete by game balance changes. Chilling Fog does has pretty ineffective against groups for the longest time , the Banners are ok but have been nerfed quite a bit, and Invul walls/gates is no longer.

    As for the EWP, I've always been a proponent of deleting the damned thing and just returning us to being able to WP during defense events, which also nixes complaints about 1 person perma tapping a keep.

    Also didn't they also intend to buff defense by buffing the lord? I think the joke that was really paints the picture of their general cluelessness more than anything else.

    • Like 1
  5. 41 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

    But we always hear wvw fight people get bored and quit, commanders or guilds quit, I can't imagine it's because it got harder, but it got too easy and it's boring.

    It's just PR for the most part. Of course they would blame it on something else. Most of the time they fall apart because they acutally hate each other and got together because they wanted to stack a team.

    This has been true for a long time. A little less than a decade ago some people tried to recruit some fight guilds to create  a so called fight tier but it ended up lot an utter joke because like every concoction of that manner, it just ended up with a bunch of guilds stacking on the same server.... and being unable to fight each other. Then they all left and all the gold was wasted (thankfully I never took part in this pyramid scheme) because these things aren't binding.

    It's just a long list of dumb things that happened on these servers, though certainly not the last.

    But you don't have to take my word for it. There's just some delusional people out there.

    How many times have you heard from a guild "we are only 20" (excluding 40 green dots)

    or "I'm quitting the game" (still here after years of quitting)

    "They're hiding from us" (even though they probably just logged off)

    And it's not just them. The word of most outspoken players in the competitive Gw2 community isn't even worth the value of the toilet paper it's written on. And I'm not even talking the consumer brand.. More like the crappy thin commercial type.

     

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  6. 1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

    Don't pve players get bored of beating same easy raids over and over again?

    A lot don't because they only care about rewards. In fact, there's often a lot of pushback anytime they release anything remotely challenging, like in EoD. And a lot of CMs get played only once so they can get the achievements and never come back again because it's not suitable for farming. The game's reward systems also don't really reward anyone for challenging themselves, mainly because people start whining about some things being exclusive or elitism or some kitten. A lot of MMOs just run on easy mode farming. Even when stuff is harder, people try to find ways to put it on farm mode.

    But with that premise in mind, I think a lot of this makes more sense....

    1 hour ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

    I heard we had a dev say a zerg farming 5 people was fun for both sides.... how? how could they possibly come up with that reasoning.

    I don't really get it either. But then again the 5 people keep coming back and nothing's explicitly forcing them to come back, at least not to the exact same spot.

    Like let's be fair here-- if people want to be treated better than NPCs, they should stop acting like them.

     

    • Like 1
  7. If you want to be extra tryhard, make sure all your characters have max supply and thus keep some as emergency.

    Also as for the topic, if you can't kill them at a camp, you're probably not going to kill them at a tower so you need to go somewhere else or catch them when they're not together.

  8. 13 minutes ago, Cael.3960 said:

    But we don't complain about the fights that never happen, just the ones in which we don't win all the time. 

    lol! That's definitely something to agree on.

    13 minutes ago, Cael.3960 said:

    I agree with the perspective of veterans who recognize the advantages these bring and the logical conclusion of adopting all of them. That's what separates the sweaty-try-hards who will push to the absolute max and then burn out, moving on from the game altogether, from the long-view veterans who just want a healthy environment to enjoy with their friends. There's organized and then there's regimented. There's meta and then there's 'good enough for everything that isn't MLG-standard'.

    Hmm yea. There's a difference between meta and merely "good" vs, meta and "wtf is that even?" Like there's no way Anet can cater to bozos that auto attack into a reflect for years or fail to mount up on top of a wall and die because nothing will help for them.

    In general, I like to say that if the current meta is bad for someone, that's ok. But if they're literally at the wrong side of every meta, then well you know.... I can't see how that can even be fun.

    13 minutes ago, Cael.3960 said:

    But you can raise the raw ability of a community just be encouraging a greater awareness of the game and how to play it within your level of ability.

    That I agree 100%. Part of why I post on the forums and how I act in-game is just to toss out these ideas to increase the overall quality of play and to at the very least get people reevaluate their gameplay. No, I don't expect everyone to play at omg MLG levels, but just to ask themselves if they are happy with the results.

    And believe it or not, I actually learn things on the forums so I can reevaluate myself. Contrary to popular belief I just don't sneak into the middle of threads just calling people bad. (though there is a lot of that too)

     

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  9. 1 hour ago, Cael.3960 said:

    Numbers = Advantage.   I don't want that advantage. 

    Organized = Advantage. I don't want that advantage

    Meta = Advantage. I don't want that advantage

    Voice = Advantage. I don't want that advantage. 

    Target Caps = Advantage as you get more numbers, throw more aoes, mitigate more aoes. I don't want that advantage. 

    But what's really fun is people that stack all these advantages together and think objectives are hard to take still. But you know, many are behaving the same way.

    Numbers = Advantage. No, I don't want to play with people outside our squad, and I don't want people stealing our fights.

    Organized = Advantage. No, I just ask where the fights are and remain invisible but expect people to help me.

    Meta = Advantage. Eh, you got me there. Of course adjusting your play to fight a cloud would also give one, but screw that.

    Voice = Advantage. Nah, I need it to talk kitten about other players.

    A lot of WvWers of old at any scale realize that the game really breaks down (in some cases literally) when everyone takes these advantages to their logical extent  and usually made concessions for better content. Unfortunately, the posers that got left behind don't comprehend that at all.

    But if you ask me the problem with both your random braindead pug and braindead fly by night blob guild is they only treat working together in the context of their own bubble, aka whatever's convieient for them, meaning what's good for them = what's good for the team.

     

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  10. 20 hours ago, Hyperballad.5693 said:

    I admittedly did not read through this entire thread besides the OP and a couple posts.

    I see both sides of the issue in regards to target caps. I tend to agree with the people saying the servers probably can't handle all the additional computations from removing caps. In any case, I think the elephant in the room which people rarely speak about in-game is the minstrel stat-line.

    Comparing old WvW to Today

    Stability - 2 guardians coordinating
    Today - minstrel npc playing piano

    Cleansing - 3 or 4 party members coordinating
    Today -  minstrel npc playing piano

    Healing - Entire parting coordinating regroups and water blasts
    Today - minstrel npc playing piano

    DPS - Entire party's responsibility
    Today - 1 or 2 DPS free casting while you guessed it, being pushed around in a baby carriage by minstrel npcs

    The game has been dumbed down to the dirt. And this is not about me hating support; I was a monk main in GW1. But GW2 and its UI simply weren't designed with healers/support in mind and it shows. There's a reason minstrel doesn't exist in SPvP. No one wants to run to a capture point and deal with a bunker stalling the match for its entirety (boring). WvW has this problem scaled up. Some groups are running 4 supports to a party now, I mean, come on.

    I'd like ANET to experiment and run a weekend event with minstrel removed, concentration/expertise removed from celestial, and see where the meta shakes up. Will it be better or worse? I don't know but it would be something DIFFERENT. The meta has been stale for so long and the worst thing I can say about WvW in its current state is that the combat has become boring and predictable vs. GvG comps, organized comps, pug comps... everything. They all feel exactly the same to fight against with the only difference being who wkeys on tag more effectively. Another interesting experiment would be giving players their own defiance bar for a weekend and see how it plays.

    This of course requires developer resources which ANET seems unwilling to allocate, so I know I'm just a boomer WvW'er yelling at the clouds. The point being, there are other avenues to improve the game that don't involve completely dumbing down the combat system. But we've had a minstrel meta for so long with the playerbase conditioned to play this way (and the devs too apparently), I feel it's a lost cause at this point. Just play another game to scratch that competitive itch.

    Well, I got to agree that having 80% minstrel dominance is absurd but minstrel existed for quite a while until combat degenerated to this point. Though certainly its existence played no small role.

    I think post PoF and especially EoD balance really got too obsessed with "one size fits all" roles. Firebrand was a good example, having essentially all support roles literally baked into the spec itself. A firebrand with no traits, skills, or equipment offered water fields, reflects, stability, and resistance right out of the gate, and it was only natural that it was a balance disaster. A lot of the stuff simply got nerfed, but the core design remains and is still problematic.

    To make matters worse, the changes simply made the class more annoying to play, and meaningful choices were removed (to make balance easier) and in general Anet took the balance approach of simply deleting alternate traits in an effort to railroad people to pick the traits they intended for turning builds into what is basically an illusion of choice.

    And then other support builds would all have to be power crept up, or they just couldn't compete. Meanwhile, PvE degenerated into a mandatory quickness and alarcrity meta, so the game went in that direction that only got reversed in recent time. But it was too late.

    But it would seem after EOD came out, they were finally making changes to remove this pve booncreep.. Things were looking up until SotO came out and at this point any semblance of effort was tossed out the window.  This expansion was clearly rushed with them struggling to find something to do, and while they haven't been the best of planning, the lack of any real plan here was simply blatant. It would have been fine if they just released a few maps nobody cares about and some legendary skins but they decided to release something with massive implications on all aspects of the game with about zero thought.

    The weaponsmith training alone was a balance nightmare even in concept, and with the most ambitious thing being repackaged rune bonuses, things went south the fastest I've ever seen for this game since maybe the 2019 layoffs.

    • Like 3
  11. They should releaxe a pve ring and a wvw earring.

    PvE ring because currently the pve ring can't be duplicated, and not everyone raids so most of them need 2 confluxes which is honestly kinda weird.

    WvW earrings will be good because Aurora and Vision are complete clusterkittens and involve a lot of dead content. Believe it or not, WvW is less dead than many parts of the game, and honestly would be less complicated for most players to do.

    Weirdly enough, despite being "pve" Aurora and Vision require a gift of battle anyways so might as well just cut the chase.

    It should be noted that they seem to want the trinkets to be a PITA to get, so keep expectations adjusted.

    While we're at it, WvW should get a legendary aquabreather. PvErs don't need it because there is no new underwater content anyways!

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  12. 3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

    ..yes? It would not be the first (or likely last) time either. They do like to channel players towards niche content and do it on constant basis. It rarely brings the results net expected, of course, but for some reason it doesn't stop them from trying.

    Doubt. What other "niche content" has been prevalent in the majority of legendaries like the Gift of Battle is? You don't see them putting spvp requirements in most for good reason.

    We've had multiple opportunities to not include the Gift of Battle in the newer generations, but it just hasn't happened.

    3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

    Nah. It's not like the case of legendary armor originally. It's small enough time investment that a lot of players will still be doing it, even though they do not like the content.

    So, basically, it's a non-issue then.

    And that's why it's been that way.

    Not to mention WvW doesn't really have to be pvp content. Many people do it without actually haven't to fight another player, compared to something like spvp at least.

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  13. 1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

    That is fine. It only becomes a problem when as a reward for progressing one mode you use something that is aimed primarily at players of a completely different mode. GoB, in reality, is not a reward for WvW players. It's a bait for PvE players meant to get them in a mode most of them heavily dislike.

    I mean, I'm critical of Anet, but do you really want us to believe that Anet hates players so much that they would  make  most of them to do content that them dislike that many times? And kept it as a core design of most legendaries for over a decade.

    If that were true, it would seem that nobody would make legendaries, or WvW players would be extremely rich with their monopoly over this aspect of the game. Until Gen 2's came out, legendaries could be bought straight up.

    I think that'd be pretty hard to prove.

    • Like 1
  14. 30 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

    Yeah it's weird. If pve is their preferred mode there's plenty of ways to make gold to buy a legendary instead. Instead they come to complain about having to do one part in an area they hate and then demand changes to suit them instead. Personally I don't like pve in this game, it's too annoying, and the gift of exploration is boring as kitten to complete, so I don't do them, ascended weapons suit me just fine. But hey they complained enough about the wvw legendary gear to get an OW version eventually, maybe that's the hope for them for GoB now. 🤭

    It's not too weird. It just means admitting one's approach was flawed, and it's just really hard to admit it.
    And to be fair, sometimes one's building something and runs into something annoying or they think shouldn't be there, and it's easy to get frustrated. But it's still one's own responsibility to be aware of the big picture at the start and if they go in without a proper plan then that's on them.

    Though my problem is in general is that these things are generally not persuasive. When someone makes a demand or request, they have to give the other side some consideration (what's in it for them) because one sided demands are essentially pleading.

    At best it's something like "You'll no longer have players like me afking/inting/taking up space in this game mode". But this isn't persuasive, because it's more of a threat. Basically, "if you don't give me what I want, I will consciously screw up your game mode". And frankly, it's not a very strong threat either to the eyes of most WvWers.

    And of course, there's the ultimate threat of threatening to quit. Which never works. In fact if you read this subforums, you know of people that have been quitting for like 10 years. They've basically been quitting for longer than some have been playing.

    That being said, I'm all for hearing something more convincing.

     

  15. 47 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

    Yeah so just sell it on the black lion store. 🤭

    Yea but I've been saying just buy the whole legendary forever and nobody ever listens to that. Yea I know that some can't be, but the goal of the forums is always to ignore the obvious solutions, because then you can't vent! So even if that option did exist, it wouldn't even help.

    Just like how OW legendary armor was supposed to stop the QQ over that. It didn't, as expected.

    • Like 1
  16. They already have a legendary kit in the WV that specifically excludes the gifts but does most of the work. That should be very telling what the intent is. If they did otherwise, they'd just be giving out a legendary in it.

    edit: Also even if they did, it would only give one at best per season. Then we're just going to have the same problem when someone wants another again.

  17. 1 hour ago, kash.9213 said:

    If I could give you one I would if it meant keeping that kind of toxic behavior out of this game mode. I'm used to trash talk and people trying to get attention in chat, but you sound like you might be on another level. Leave that in raids and places like that please. 

    I wouldn't.  Rewarding bad behavior just convinces people that's the way to get what they want. It never ends.

    But as always, I urge people to just  farm gold in their preferred content and buy the thing-- the WV always helps with that since it gives like 30'ish gold even when the shop is exhausted. Yes some cannot be bought but the gift of battle is the least of the problem for those imo.

    Like if one actually enjoys the process of making a legendary, it's fine. But if you just want a fancy skin and its utility, just buy the damned thing.

     

    • Like 1
  18. 10 hours ago, Chaos God.1639 said:

    so you need more team work and more supplies to defend, because few supplies won't fix the wall. I don't think i was the the only who cared more about rewards and loot bags than supplies. now I know that I can't just rebuild the wall with few supplies. so the supplies now became more important. why do you ignore this fact?

    also destroying the walls is more valuable now. so people will probably start to build trebuchets more and actually use the wvw game mechanics like they were meant to be.

    I also think they should add friendly area damage to catapults so that catapults would destroy themselves when they are used near walls. this way the attackers cant hide near walls and the defenders can destroy their catapult with other siege weapons.

    there is difference between trying to understand something and just complaining the day after new changes were released. you think anet is going to just revert the changes immediately, because some people are being emotional on forums? ofc no, they will see how it goes for several weeks or days and then make a decision.

    So did you notice all the adjustments listed have to be made by the defending side, while no adjustments were listed for the attacking side?

    You only strengthened  Dawdler's argument. 🤣

     

    • Like 2
  19. 1 hour ago, Cael.3960 said:

    It depends on what you want out of the game. Many of us have jobs, kids, post-secondary opportunities and/or other responsibilities. We don't have the luxury of playing this game like it's a career or an extended summer vacation. If I have 60 minutes of free time and I want to spend it getting fights in WvW I'm not going to spend it flipping paper objectives because it's tactically sound for the server's PPT strategy. I'm going where the OJ's are. Or where there's a camp that's not on RI where I can assume other roamers are headed. If it's a guild night and I'm with a group looking for a fights, we're going to go where other groups are likely to be. If that means punching a hole in a wall to get at what's hiding inside, we'll build siege and punch a hole. If an enemy group wants to come out and fight on the open field where my guild will spend 60 minutes contributing nothing to the matchup's PPT I'm also fine with that. For those who care about the PPT and who wins a tier my guild's play is stupid. By not taking things when we have a group that can achieve it we're "actively dragging the server down". But I'm having fun, my guild is having fun, and even if the rewards are significantly less than what we'd get by k-training paper objectives I'd rather do this instead. 

    There's also not much point in retracing a havoc squad's k-train if you want fights and they don't. You're just giving them more objectives to re-paper while they continue to ignore you. When they've got nothing left to flip and their remaining options are to fight you or move maps, most will flock to whatever is under attack and call in reinforcements if they can't handle it. It may not be the fight you want, but at least it's content you came online to get. And by ignoring all the superfluous PPT you're getting more of it in your limited time than you would by doing the 'smart' thing that's in your 'best interest'.  

    As for those who suggest taking it to a guild hall if you want fights; you don't get pips, bags or wiggle chests in the guild hall. In fact, if you want food and utility buffs or the ability to change gear and test new builds you're going to need at least a little income to make that happen. WvW doesn't pay well at all and it pays even less if you don't k-train. But if you find PvE tedious and don't have the time to grind it for cash, WvW at least offers you the gameplay of a guild arena with enough gold incentive that you're not making yourself poorer by playing it. 
     

    I'm not really sure where this rant about PPT came from. In fact my whole post was about how  to maximize kills from PPTers so who really cares if they repaper stuff anyways after you kill them? I mean honestly you have some decent points there but you sometimes really veer onto really weird tangents.

    I mean I suppose if it's 5 people from the other server doing it then yes you would ignore them but that's just one of the scenarios.

  20. On 4/20/2024 at 12:27 PM, Cael.3960 said:

    If a full zerg hides inside a structure waiting to be attacked, and is ignored, while the rest of the borderland flips... it's tactically stupid. But because it's stupid doesn't mean it never happens.

    Yea, but why would you stop your opponent from doing something stupid?

    On 4/20/2024 at 12:27 PM, Cael.3960 said:

    While those two blobs are fighting in a keep, the other faction flips everything because they DO want to PPT and there's nothing stopping them. Now you have a map where the defenders have one objective and nothing else, a faction that doesn't want blob-vs-blob fights but will happily gank singles and havock squads who try to take back anything they've papered, and one faction that is desperate for a big fight and the only one they can get is hiding inside a keep. 

    Or one faction sees what is going on, and disengages, so they can simply trace the train of the 3rd server backwards and derail it getting some easy bags. Or (less likely) both servers briefly put things aside to slap the 3rd server for trying to exploit them.

    This is completely a player generated issue, but I would say a certain type of player that only cares about farming bags in the short term doesn't ever bother with these tactics because it is beneath them. Also applies to the player base as a whole as the mode degenerates and there is no point considering these factors.

    I mean if you're breaking into a keep and farming bads, the bads will always be there even if you take a break. In fact it'll encourage them to regroup. and allow for more kills over the long run. If you're pushing one side so hard in a keep at the expense of all else, then of course the 3rd server is just going to backcap. It's fine to say you don't care about that, but you're still playing a part in enabling this behavior.

    So yea it can be frustrating when people do dumb things against their self interest and drag you down with them, but someone's gotta make a concession somewhere. And at the end of the day, it's important to know your enemy and their tendencies. A lot of people in this game  (not you in particular) tend to wax  about skill and strategy but the moment something comes along that actually forces them to use their brain instead of regurgitating it from someone else, they just freak out.

    • Like 2
  21. 12 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

    Yeah I mean there is an entire side of the tower to drop out of, far beyond the range of that necro... 

    But you know as well as I do that people would still jump when they could just run and drop down like a normal person.

    Yea in fact they're more likely to jump now that you said that, just out of spite. That's just standard forum behavior:

    Complain about problem, reject all advice, double down and then continue to feed bags to show everyone how wrong they are. That'll show them!

    • Haha 2
  22. The only person that could be interpreted as wanting to jump out of the tower is

    On 4/20/2024 at 5:09 AM, Dawdler.8521 said:

    Why where you not outside the side of the tower killing that lone necro already?

    but that's still  very different from

    3 hours ago, urd.8306 said:

    a ranged class to jump down and give up the main advantage it has in that situation.

     as being outside of a tower does not force you to attack enemies in melee. Especially if you have a bow.

    Furthermore, this tower in particular has a hill behind it that's pretty convenient for pew pew, though you'll need other people adding to the damage.

    Of course the best strat is actually to go to that higher up cliff and build trebs, which makes you safe from virtually anything unless they go around to kill you. And ideally you'd have siege in both the tower and there with people using it. Also the tower has 90 supply...

    So even humoring this idea, it's probably still better than uselessly pew pewing off a wall.

  23. But the thing here is that the bar for farming random  defenders is actually extremely low.  Almost anyone with a working build can tag up, and just get a group of people that will stick together. It doesn't even have to be a comp.

    The thing is people won't follow you if nothing gets done as naturally everyone has their own agenda. So you have to get kills or captures somehow. Nobody wants to sit with you in a keep refreshing siege or repairing walls and thus essentially all groups are fight groups as needed.

    In fact that's what I used to do back then when I was bored and really how I'd introduce my friends to WvW. Just set up catapults or some ranged siege to hit a wall to a northern tower or keep with zero intent to take the structure. The people that arrive at first typically arrive peacemeal and aren't cohesive and if you kill them first, you can usually kill other people that come along. Then you just leave if a real group comes, or just wipe, because who really cares; you've already accomplished the objective.

    Most advanced fight guilds have the sustain to actually take the objective but as mentioned above usually just try to kill as many as possible.

    So I don't really see the nerfs to defense really affecting the above groups. The only groups that I would think of that have trouble with defense and can't farm bags are generally one or more of the following:

    * PvDoor guilds that have zero confidence in actual fights. Like, they will literally jump off a cliff if faced with an equal force.

    * Over specialized groups that are only specialized for open field fights and simply have siege deficiency. Yes, attacking a structure is a skill. Also tends to make up their own rules that naturally nobody follows.

    * Unpopular guilds that refuse to work with the rest of their server and thus lack the numbers or skill to actually overpower their enemies.

    * Parasite guilds that are bad in sustain somehow and rely on a sneaky burst, and thus need another guild or pugs to take the first hits as a meatshield. Often becomes unpopular.

    Needless to say, these are also groups that are most likely to be thwarted by a small amount of defenders.

    Regardless of the nature of the group, I also fail to understand why veterans of the game mode don't understand this and the goals of these groups, while continuing to int. Do you think that feeding them bags is going to make them stop?

    Maybe some like the challenge, but given their lamentations here and in game it would seem like the clear answer is just to not give content and ppt elsewhere as needed.

    Like, yea if you suicide into an obvious bait catapult once or twice, that's fine. But by the 6th or 7th time, it's kinda just self-inflicted. And sure the meta sucks, but I feel like people that have been constantly on the wrong side of the meta for 10+ years really should consider getting their kitten together, if they want to actually play the game.

    All and all though, I think more and more people are going to catch on and a lot of the bag farmers are just going to end up training empty maps and then come back and call this a dead game mode. Well, I guess some people will never learn and still keep the bags flowing.

    But you know what they say about the golden goose. Cuz I can tell you Anet doesn't.

    tl;dr If you don't like what's happening, then you basically have to protest. Just  don't give people that don't deserve it content.

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