ErazorZ.5209

Wat? I would add that the reflect on dodge trait needs more c/d as well. But yes, I know, you really, really hate all mesmers because they're the only ones you can't "steamroll": Nice, taking a message out of context i wrote. Mesmers basically butchered my ranked score from plat 2 to almost gold 2. I climbed my way up to plat before the mesmer invasion of PvP ...right when i started seeing 2 mesmers in my enemy teams, i started streak losing towards gold 2. Now i am literally easily killing people in my ranked games because the people i am playing with right now are allot worse then what i was facing in plat 2, except for mesmers, wich keep me contained in gold 2 because they are broken. You basically stated that mesmers needed both nerfs in offense and defence. Yet after you proclaim the nerfs to offense, you automatically state because 'the offensive is nerfed' The defenses shouldnt be touched. I didn't take anything out of context. Quite the opposite considering I linked to the full post. Maybe third time's the charm: Kindly revisit my last post (which you quoted) and read the bold, italicized part as many times as it takes to see that I agreed with a major nerf to defense.You know just aswell as me people are not going to read that entire post. I clarified it for those who are reading this thread. Not the other.This is the only thing you wanted changed about defense: "dodging while CC'd should go. It's not unreasonable for mirages to be forced to spend a stun break here like others." And that doesnt even scratch the surface of how many defensives a mesmer has. It is not enough.

Wat? I would add that the reflect on dodge trait needs more c/d as well. But yes, I know, you really, really hate all mesmers because they're the only ones you can't "steamroll": Nice, taking a message out of context i wrote. Mesmers basically butchered my ranked score from plat 2 to almost gold 2. I climbed my way up to plat before the mesmer invasion of PvP ...right when i started seeing 2 mesmers in my enemy teams, i started streak losing towards gold 2. Now i am literally easily killing people in my ranked games because the people i am playing with right now are allot worse then what i was facing in plat 2, except for mesmers, wich keep me contained in gold 2 because they are broken. You basically stated that mesmers needed both nerfs in offense and defence. Yet after you proclaim the nerfs to offense, you automatically state because 'the offensive is nerfed' The defenses shouldnt be touched.

On the other, you have the frequent complaints that mirage is an untouchable, unkillable, ez-mode, brain dead, god-spec, rife with too much evade, invuln, stealth, detarget, mobility, etc. (See any mesmer complaint thread as well as many posts here.) I think targeted changes should be applied to both offense and defense: Offense:Minimize direct damage on axe, torch, scepter, and staff so condi builds really only output condi.Shave condi application so condi damage is ramped rather than burst. Possibly add an ICD on Ambush attacks, but in exchange leave Mirage Cloak alone, except as stated below. Ideally, cut back the excessive cleanse and resistance in the game to compensate, which might even enable additional viable condi specs.Maybe this is out there and has issues, but: Rework clones so they don't pile conditions via auto-attacks, but instead apply a couple stacks to opponents who kill them (to punish them for falling for the fake and encourage developing the most important skill for fighting mesmers: identifying the real mesmer--which isn't as difficult as people think.) Outside of shatters and ambushes, clones do almost no damage and truly exist to facilitate the mesmer's deceptive play style. So no more complaining about clone spam. Defense: With the reductions to offense, defensive abilities are more justified to enable that ramped condi application and allow "mirages to excel in longer combat engagements" per Anet's goal. Still, many complain about, and many mirage mains agree, that dodging while CC'd should go. It's not unreasonable for mirages to be forced to spend a stun break here like others. Generally, I think condi mirage should retain most of its defensive trickery in keeping with its theme. It should duel by craftily outplaying opponents, wearing them down with DOT (particularly the self-inflicted kind from torment and confusion for thematic reasons), and fill less of a burst DPS role. Kind of like a tankier but less damaging thief that hides among what opponents see rather than what they don't. Would that satisfy (most) everyone? First you state targeted changes should be applied to both offense and defense, and then literally a few sentences later you are saying defenses are fine and doesnt need to be changed cuz offensives are lower? Wat. You think condi mirage should retain most of its defensive trickery? LOL The entire problem with mirage is that it has permanent uptime of defenses while basically spamming there defensives when the condi has been put on. Its just a waiting game for mesmer at this point. Use condis and then just use your defensives, teleport stealth and watch ppl die while your stealthed, due to conditions. This should have never been a build to begin with. Its too newb friendly, unfun to play against, and frankly, unfun to play with if you actually want to progress in getting better with mesmer. This build allows people to never get better, because all you need to know is how your defenses work.

Yep, that tells how extremely oppressive they have been and still are in all game modes, even after receiving minor adjustments. "Minor adjustments" Portal Smiter's Booned, Illusionary Defense dropped by 66%, Elusive Mind has 6 seconds of exhaustion, Confounding Suggestions no longer stuns, Jaunt repeatedly nerfed in every aspect, Bountiful Disillusionment, Critical Infusion and Nomad's Endurance, Torch 4+5 heavily nerfed in damage. That ain't no "minor adjustments." Look at the big picture. Non of these nerfs have changed how oppressive mirage is, reasons, many - no nerf has truly affected the aspects as to why mirage is so dominant, I'll let you figure that one yourself. I can give you a hint, what are the benefits of dodging as a mirage. Don't think Elusive mind. Just think for a second what Dodge can do for a mirage. You realize that I've been advocating the removal of both Elusive Mind and the ability to dodge while CC'd even without it since Mirage was released for almost a year and a half now right and that if you put forward like the slightest effort you'd would have seen that? Maybe you should actually, I dunno, check what someone's stances are before you patronize and talk down to them. Nothing personal. Your post stated mirages have been nerfed many times and don't need anymore nerfs - I disagree. Cheers! I said they need more nerfs and nerfs are coming because they've come every single patch. I never said they didn't need nerfs. Yep, that tells how extremely oppressive they have been and still are in all game modes, even after receiving minor adjustments. "Minor adjustments" Portal Smiter's Booned, Illusionary Defense dropped by 66%, Elusive Mind has 6 seconds of exhaustion, Confounding Suggestions no longer stuns, Jaunt repeatedly nerfed in every aspect, Bountiful Disillusionment, Critical Infusion and Nomad's Endurance, Torch 4+5 heavily nerfed in damage. That ain't no "minor adjustments." Mate they're still op as all hell. What are you talking about? Why are you trying to defend mirage? It's broken, i don't care how many nerfs it's had in the past. Mesmer mains trying to defend it have such weak arguments. The class is extremely bad for pvp and will turn away all the wow players coming over at the moment. 90% of people agree they need huge nerfs. The rest are mesmer mains. End of. I'm not "defending them". You made an entire thread pretending they never get nerfed, and they only get buffed each patch which is objectively not true. All I pointed out was that they've gotten serious nerfs every single patch and more nerfs are definitely coming and somehow you've gotten incredibly tilted over it for no reason. If you weren't incredibly factually wrong I wouldn't have to correct your nonsense. But every other class has also been undergoing strange alterations & nerfs, it isn't just Mirage. So at the end of the past year's worth of intra-class nerfs, Mirage is still the strongest class. In fact, these last couple patches "intra-class wide" have resulted in Mirage being stronger now than it ever was. We can't simply post a list of nerfs to one class without posting a list of nerfs to every other class. There is no ability to compare/contrast anything while doing that. For example: Mirage mains will frequently mention the nerf to EM while completely disregarding the vigor uptime that the build has, its use of adventure rune, and 2x energy sigils, along with w/e other stunbreaks it already has on its utility bar. Realistically Mirages are fronting more endurance usage than most other builds. Also, after the nerf to EM, Mirages began playing differently which these new playstyles ended up being stronger than the old EM builds anyway. Now let's take a look at Deadeye and the Death's Judgement nerf "which is now blockable". That was a detrimental nerf to DE's strength. Trying to compare the EM nerf to DJ nerf is of no comparison at all. The EM nerf actually ended up helping Mirages, whereas something like the DJ nerf did nothing but hurt DE. Even so, hearing "Death's Judgement is now blockable" sounds bad but what if we were to look at patch notes on other classes to find that most blocks in the game had been reduced to half durations or something. So again, we can't really just lay down a list of a single class and its nerfs, without looking at what happened to everything else it is playing against. All in all, people are noticing that Mirages are very dominant again lately. The only thing that's different this time is that players really are beyond disgusted with the mirage meme thing that anet has going on here. I've seen 2 players in the past couple weeks leave the game due to sheer Mirage hate, and these are people who play in the top 100 each season so it isn't "a l2p issue." People are disgusted by it, anet has let this go on way too long, and people are actually leaving the game due to it. It would be a wise move on anet's part to do something, anything to bring Mirage "actually balanced for once", before it continues driving people from the game. <- Because that really is happening lately. You can't say condimirage is the strongest build when Boonbeast mains alone made up at least 4 of the top 10 that I can for sure 100% identify and they got buffed last patch. Second strongest? I'd say definitely. But objectively boonbeast out performs Mirage and is just as brain dead and forgiving as Mirage and Boonbeast got massively buffed last balance patch.I like how you derail a thread by talking about boonbeast. The fact is boonbeast is not okay. We get that. But stating that its more broken then mesmer really does nothing for your point at all. Mesmer is broken. just because another spec this entire thread is NOT about is broken doesnt change the fact mesmer IS. To the guy stating 5 builds can sustain through a mesmers bursts doesnt automatically make mesmer fine. Those 5 ELITE specs on 1 build doesnt automatically make mesmer fine. If you want elite specs to be powercreeped in a single build BECAUSE its the only thing you CAN do on that build versus a mesmer disregarding how those classes cant 1v1 anything else as effectivly as a mesmer is just blind favouritism. Just because mesmer has some unfavourable matchups versus very specific builds, that really doesnt mean its automatically fine. Especially not considering those other builds cannot do the same as a mesmer can. You want to know why those other builds cant do that? because they arent broken.

Mesmers main problem IS there extremely low cooldowns on defensives. Most mesmer skills have a 20/30 sec cooldown. they have multiple of those all focussed on defenses. Wanna do math? 7 defensives skills. 30 sec cooldown. that literally means 30/7 = 4,28 seconds. Every 4,28 seconds they have a get out of jail for free card (without counting dodges and this means in PERMANENT COMBAT) This 4,28 seconds also DOES NOT EVEN calculate the active uptime of said defensives. IF uptime of defensives is 3 seconds then that would mean you can only hit a mesmer within a 1 second timeframe every 4 seconds if the mesmer would be forever in combat!!!!! Lets look at some stats when a mesmer IS NOT permanently in combat. Lets say a mesmer is 50% in combat. This means quite literally you can hit a mesmer 1 second every 8 seconds!!! If all there defensives had a 3 second uptime. Now lets see what these defensives do: Stealth, detarget, invurn, block, leap, teleport. (it even has access to blinds wich i havnt even talked about!)Literally everything gw2 has in the defensive department. Staff 2 (8s cd btw traited 8!!!!!) + stealth = detargets, teleports away, free reset of cd's. <--- Main source of OP. The reason why power mesmer isnt deemed as OP as a power is not because its weak. Its because it has an actuall CASTING time on there skills.Every time a skill is used that has a casting time it can be punished, that is the ONLY reason why power mesmer is 'worse' then condi. This is also why mesmers think power mesmer is bad. When in reality if you actually know howto play it, its still broken, because a power mesmer can still 1 shot from stealth with all there defensives up. The amount of kills however are just lower due to higher cd's on 1 shots from a power mesmer. TL;DR Condi and power are both OP. Condi is just more OP.