Zero.6082

The game is geared towards raids, it is designed towards raids... you practice dungeons and mechanics to understand and build up your gear.... your prep for raids in GW2 by ..... collecting berries... i don't understand how that makes sense... That is why it easier.... The game teaches you to play.... it even shows you a rotation... granted i played dragoon.... which i have been told is easier..... but take it as you will.... I am comparing apples to oranges in this case i only picked it because its the only other raiding system i have tried..... Raids in GW2 take alot of practice to get good at. You have to know your build, your rotation, the mechancis of the fight etc. you can do them in exotic if you know the fight well. Dungeons, and fractals exist in this game too, Dungeons are much easier nowadays but Fractals are a good starting point for learning your build. and Fractal CMs are difficult and even harder than some raid bosses, not sure what the complaint is about here. I am not arguing that logic... but will you take me in your group if i only have exotic armor? The complaint... wasn't a true complaint... i was offering up the idea of allowing for people to have more out of their really expensive gear.... I though ascend armor and trinkets would be great if you could just change the stats on them when you want... that way when stuff gets nerfed... i don't have to spend my time swapping builds and focus on completing content. Ascended armor is only needed for fractals and only due to the agony mechanic. Raids in exotic gear are more than fine, there are also tons of budget builds for classes which don't go pure berserker (and using named berserker armor like Devona, Zhed's and Nika's will recue the cost for a full set to around 10-12 gold) which usually aim for 50-100 gold. The biggest barrier for players to get into raids is not gear related in this game. Almost nothing is except for fractal T4 (and again, not due to stats). I get where you are coming from as far as balance changes go. Yet in reality: GW2 is the only game where you eventually have all the gear you will ever need (unlike it's competitors who reduce new gear tiers constantly and devalue old gear)the first ascended armor set is the hardest/most expensive. Running T4 fractals will lead to an abundance of ascended gear and gold over timemost balance changes do not affect power damage dealers significantly, it's been berserker for 7.5 years by now. Viper for condi classes mostlyascended items are account bound. Even if your class should get re-balanced down (and it's seldom that one falls so far that is totally useless), chances are high that 1 of the 2 other same armor type classes will take it's place or be play-able TL;DR:If gear is of primary concern due to class viability: make your first set a berserker set for a power damage setup. Right but then when you get to WVW everyone has berserker set so honestly the game promotes 1 type of play berserker.... also these fractal drops.... what level do you have to be to get this stuff? How many hours do i have to sink to get the next set... nobody knows.... but if you take the leap and get your first set and what do you know its changeable... then you don't have to wait... you can jump into other things... also the market price goes down for the items because you don't have to have the demand for all the extra materials to make more sets with more stats.... So now you lower that barrier for other people....

I think you know as well as i do the only reason why people are so mad at this idea.... is because they did put the time in and now they don't anyone else to succeed. They only want people to do everything and you know that it benefits annet to keep us this way... I didn't say give everyone legendary.... i didn't say give everyone all the titles, honors and completion achievements... i just asked for less repercussions to nerfs and experimentation... The funny part is i think that is what you all are thinking i am implying... or what your saying is that legendary weapons, armor, and trinkets are not worth anything? I have two legendary weapons.... and the only reason i picked them was not the looks, but because they were used by the classes that i use the most.... that is sad..... I mean for this argument to fail you would basically point out that a legendary weapon could look like a stick.... the achievement and work to get it means nothing... its all about the ability to change its stats.... That is the point i am trying to get to everyone... this is the only argument i can finalize.... they are meaningless pieces of junk..... unless i am right.... that the look does matter.... the bragging rights, the achievements and status does matter. Which is why i am trying offer my solution which is allow for us to have our ugly armor that we can enjoy the game with and then we can work to make ourselves look cooler and have cooler stuff.... But the stats and the stat changing is crap.... It didn't matter to us in GW1 why does it matter now? You got one armor and you changed the runes... that's it.. if you wanted cooler armor then you payed more... it was simple effective and it worked! Why did they change it in this game.... build diversity? No because it forces people to stick to one build... The ability to nerf shadow form... basically yes.... and then i almost see it as a punishment to those who found out a good way to play the game.... Everyone here has reinforced my argument that legendary gear is only good because of its ability to change stats... and that there is no point in getting them... thus the mechanic is a very useful one... which would be a nice one to give to everyone, so we can all have a level playing field.... you know equal opportunity not outcome... because i wanted equal outcome everyone gets a legendary set for free....I have two legendary weapons... i wouldn't mind if they did this it doesn't bother me. Its ok if i lose out i don't want that! I want to change my build to match my playstyles and have fun.... with out have to sink in hundreds of hours into busy work. But instead hundreds of hours into fun content.

The game is geared towards raids, it is designed towards raids... you practice dungeons and mechanics to understand and build up your gear.... your prep for raids in GW2 by ..... collecting berries... i don't understand how that makes sense... That is why it easier.... The game teaches you to play.... it even shows you a rotation... granted i played dragoon.... which i have been told is easier..... but take it as you will.... I am comparing apples to oranges in this case i only picked it because its the only other raiding system i have tried..... Raids in GW2 take alot of practice to get good at. You have to know your build, your rotation, the mechancis of the fight etc. you can do them in exotic if you know the fight well. Dungeons, and fractals exist in this game too, Dungeons are much easier nowadays but Fractals are a good starting point for learning your build. and Fractal CMs are difficult and even harder than some raid bosses, not sure what the complaint is about here. I am not arguing that logic... but will you take me in your group if i only have exotic armor? The complaint... wasn't a true complaint... i was offering up the idea of allowing for people to have more out of their really expensive gear.... I though ascend armor and trinkets would be great if you could just change the stats on them when you want... that way when stuff gets nerfed... i don't have to spend my time swapping builds and focus on completing content.

24 days only if you play 22 a week of WVW... which again... not a problem if the problem didn't exist which is... the time gate... 88 hours is easily accomplished faster than 24 days... 4 weeks for max armor.... gw1 you could get max armor in an hour.... I played that game just as much as gw2.... i guess the game really isn't tied to your armor.... Wait so i have to pay for someone to train my group for Raids! But you can't pay for a subscription... thats pot calling the kettle black... there... I didn't even say pay.... i said set it up so everyone gets the same rewards.... WVW has tier modes? Raids have Tier modes? You mean i can play the first raid at a different level? Fractals 1-25 are the same as 75-100? What!?!?! I am not saying... you won't dive into the hardest mode... what i am saying is why is the hardest mode..... circumvented by the easiest thing Berry Farming..... The pew pew is soo good why doesn't everyone go pew pew? So all you rangers out there according to this paragraph this is the only build that is good for you he has tested everything and the only thing you are good at is this one thing! From the man himself..... don't buy anything else, don't play anything else.... It seems like no one is open to game discussion or change... I am sorry i threw up an idea... i didn't ask you, you responded if you don't want to respond please don't, i didn't force you.... Here is my signle coherent individual topic.... the game needs a shake up and the best part in my opinion is its build diversity.... Play how you want style like pvp... but you know what if your favorite part was collecting petrified wood and winter berries i am sorry for your loss. I think the game wouldn't have to nerf as much if it wasn't for the style of play Anet forces upon people which is High risk, low reward build crafting.

The game is geared towards raids, it is designed towards raids... you practice dungeons and mechanics to understand and build up your gear.... your prep for raids in GW2 by ..... collecting berries... i don't understand how that makes sense... That is why it easier.... The game teaches you to play.... it even shows you a rotation... granted i played dragoon.... which i have been told is easier..... but take it as you will.... I am comparing apples to oranges in this case i only picked it because its the only other raiding system i have tried.....

.Unfortunately, open world experimentation requires some heavy math to parse unless you're fine with spending the gold to swap ascended stats and experiment that way. Which is what i am trying to eliminate... so you would rather keep the status quo and never test? Wow that would a boring game if everyone ran the same build because.... i understand your calling out 1 thing which is Spvp.... But then apply it to everything.... it works there which is why you have multiple builds... it works there because you can experiment.... It doesn't work in open world because you right you have parse out the money.... why i can't just try something? I am finally for the first time seeing plague doctors on firebrands as a viable build its amazing how long RND has pushed this long.... its been out for at least a year if not longer.... Its teaching you to be small scale and safe.... The game doesn't expand if you only have 1 character with one thing. They need to bank on the openness and allow people to be open... People forget Spvp doesn't match your raid build, or your WVW zerg build... or your fractal build.... look at all the builds you need for one character for one game... can you fork over that much gold and time for that many classes... so again you have to do 1 of 3 things. spend moneyspend timeor cut characters... The build diversity is there..... but its not worth it..... Its alot faster for me to get through the game and get stuff done when you focus on one character... then i guess i don't have to care.... but again... will you take my minstrel firebrand into raids? That is the armor i have cause of WVW.... or do i need to shell out another 600+ gold for that? That is the problem! Ultra specific requirements and ultra specific stuff... I haven't changed my engineer armor in 4 years.... That has to say something about guild wars 2.... I would like to try the wvw healing build.... but that would be 600 gold please... its like sorry guys i guess you get second best ... who gets to take the fall?

That is a straw man and its silly.... But since you can read minds what should i say?Ok fine just for you i will make this all about me... i say i get everything and you guys get nothing? See it doesn't work.... because if i make it all about me then no one would play.... games basketball, baseball, and fortnite live on the idea of three things. Fair structure and rulesrewardsfunIf I make the structure and rules all about me then no one would play... if i am the only one with rewards then no one would play... I am being sincere.... because i am trying to make it fair across the board... Which is why i am not nerfing anything only enhancing what is in your pocket.... if i would just ask for these changes for just me it would be a waste.... ill tell you what Algreg..... Lets get anet to give everyone free sets of legendary armor? Then i guess we can all be satisfied..... oh wait it doesn't work that way.... I don't want the game to work that way... because you are right it would be pointless.... If i wanted about me i would say i want legendary armor for free.... i am not asking for that... I am offering out ideas... changes in mechanics to allow for players to enjoy the game... I don't want them to hand out items..... I literally don't want anything from them.... That's what makes your argument so debunked... read my solution... it doesn't say anything about hand outs or free bees.... just making stuff already in the game valuable.... also if i was being selfish... then i would just play a different game and get others to play it with me taking away player count.... but that would be silly because i want to play this game and i want others to as well... WVW, Raids, PVP, and all the other content are really boring if you are just one person.... I thought that was obvious.... but if it was as easy as click a button... i don't think we would care... A bit of sincerity from you and more sympathy would be gained for you... if you actually did offer up solutions.... instead of preaching how much better you are as the all knowing person... you don't know anything about me... I share alot of the same concerns as a bunch of people. What is your solution? Why is FF14 IGNs best MMO and guild wars 2 a "good" PVP mmo? Why do most of the reviews say play pvp! its fun? PVP is fun because i have more tools to play way.... why is the other content fun or not fun .... i don't know but if i can take what i see is fun from pvp and original gw1 style and apply it to PVE.... maybe i would be better? Idk what's your idea? Clearly you care all about the players right?

No i want to play the game.... but just as some else pointed out in an earlier comment.... the thread point shows they give you basic busy work.... I would like to play the game.... but if your going to give me busy work... make it work i don't have to pay attention to..... I explained that in the thread..... Getting the Ascended weapons was fun..... collecting berrys for the 100th time.... is not.... no matter how you try it won't be engaging....

Legendary gear used to not change stats... it changed with time... we can change the game to make it better as we learn new things... Or it evolves.... I was OK with the ascend weapons for a time because they gave out 9 for free with every expansion with really rewarding and cool game play..... but that is not the case.... Also it works one time! Once you have it all and you have to change it.... you then do three options..... Dump moneyDump timeDump characters..I am just trying to throw out some ideas to see what we get.... but from you argument it sounds like a lost cause i should just move on to a new game.... That's not what i want to do... I want to help them make a game i like better... because there is plenty of story and potential left.... but they could just give up now i guess?

I want to put this to bed now.... stop reading subscriptions and think that is all there is to my argument ..... I don't want subscriptions Also very kind of you to belittle my attempt to give players the ability to shift with the meta... heaven forbid i want the player count to go up! But ill ignore your "tl'dr" argument because it a strawman.... I don't care about that stuff..... but at a certain point... i would rather just put that money into a new game.... rather than play gw2... They are a company they have to make money! Most of the bad practices that GW2 does is attributed to money.. Time gates, Meta changes... its so they can make people have to repay again to change their gear.... if it wasn't why nerf a minstrel mesmer? If anything leave it status quo why change the meta? I am totally fine if the best build for raid is 10 warriors.... that is fine... but the reason why it will be 10 warriors is, min maxing people and arena net nerfs..... You shift your build to what ever Anet tells you to.... However, the fact its hard to shift your build..... zerker is always at the top and stays there, because that is what everyone has.... I played GW1.... shadow form was the best and stayed the best.... they nerfed it 5 times and it still is the best build for Raiding... the reason why.... people will find the easiest, laziest and cheapest way! If you give people more opportunity ..... then you get more interesting things..... and people will keep playing if you shift the meta because they can have an easy transition..... i haven't change my engineers armor in over 4 years..... Yay Zerker! Because there is no point... its either in meta or out of meta, but its not worth changing it.... because its not the best and it cost so much to change it to a character who is the best....

I agree with nerfs and meta changes... but then allow me to shift with meta. I am glad you agree with my idea :) Most of the time i walk away from the game for a long period of time is because the "meta" changes and i go nope i will not go back to frost gorge again screw that!

Probably not. Not for most people. Part of the accessibility has been the "F2P, buy if you like!" Model. Charging a sub fee would only alienate the community, even if that sub fee was for stuff like ESO's infinite crafting mat storage. With the uptick in new blood, we wouldn't want to sour it with an apparent "bait and switch." You are paying... your paying in time... time is worth more than money in some cases. How long does it take for you to make 100 gold? If you make 10 dollars an hour that gets you 100 gold and hour if you put it towards gems. The reason why i say it is because they are making you pay... just in ways you didn't see before.... unlimited harvesting, bank slots. They take away features to sell it to you... Alot of F2P is like that you get less if you don't pay..... Also there are some features where the game uses "surprise mechanics" now you don't have to do it... but if you want some of the coolest weapons skins... you either pay gold or buy keys.... maybe you can key farm, but it doesn't work.... I am not saying i want it to be a subscription... But they are a company.... so how would you suggest they make money? if they don't do subscriptions... then they are going to put best stuff behind paywalls.... That's the point.... People forget servers cost money, IT, Websites, Lawyers,.... its not just development... It takes a village! I don't the build variation is diverse.... i think you missed some of my paragraphs.... review the part about ranger using the same longbow build in Wvw... that is lack of tools. Maybe able to say its the "best" but i have seen other people use condi versions of that build, that might be better..... to bad you can't get plague doctor as easily as berserk.... and you don't want to overwrite your armor just in case it fails.... The game doesn't want you to experiment... it really pushes you towards a direction... Experimentation is what makes games fun...Honestly the only thing you have for the work around is Raiding! What if i don't want to raid? What if WVW is the best? I think people forget there are other people in the game.... its not fair to section them into do this! We should get benefits from all forms of game play? Or anet should remove them. I am trying open up the game... not force them into something.... Which is what Raid, Berry Farm, and Crafting does in this game. Nothing is necessary.... honestly your right... raiding not necessary.. we should just take it out of the game.... ascended armor is not necessary we should just take it out of the game.... Legendary's are not necessary..... we should take it out of the game..... Anet is what makes things necessary... you can get legendary armor through wvw you don't have to raid.... so form your own group isn't necessary.... but I am really glad that you can easily get 10 people together to play a game with you..... Even during this covid virus its hard for me to get my main friends together 6 of us to play Jack Box games... that was a week of planning and we have been friends for 5 years.... What is not necessary is the game at all.... which is why i am trying to provide feedback to hopefully make it more fun not necessary..... otherwise we will find games that make fun necessary.... where loot boxes/time gates are not necessary.... I mean FF 14 won mmo of the year.... gw2 has better combat and more potential.... but it doesn't matter.... because necessary!

I am trying to give GW2 a chance to make money... If that is the best way other companies do it... i don't think that should take away from my argument... Trust me i would rather not pay a subscription either.... but sometimes you have to throw a bone to the other side......Its a business i don't know the best model. What i do know is FF14, WoW and StWOR have done it with lots of success.... However the question begs is the reason why they do what they do because they need to make money? If you could solve it by paying 5 dollars a month would you do it?

Hey Everyone, sorry for the long man..... but I am one! I was having a conversation on discord with a bunch of my guild friends last night and disgruntled with the same conclusion. The Goal Posts constantly moving are rough on players! I know most people who have legendary armor don't see this as often but i want to run people through an example of other players have to adjust their characters when ever guild wars try to "change things up" Legendary armor and Trinkets: I don't think i need to explain the cost and time that goes into getting these. I would love to have these but yes this would be the cheat code to avoid nerfs.... but the value of this endeavor is 22 plus weeks of raiding, monthly wvw, or hundreds of hours on pvp. All of which have to be successful. Then you have to fork over the cost of every item..... so double time sync...... who has 6000 vials of blood hanging around their bank when they are ready to craft their legendary armor? Its a shopping list for chain of restaurant, you almost have to be a corporation to get this stuff. The joys of ascended trinket gameplay: Ascended trinkets are easy to get and honestly i am grateful that a person can get them on their own time.... but the content is well.... rather i guess not the most enjoyable gameplay.... heck you don't need a build, armor, weapons.... You need 2 expansions, living world story done, and a set of harvesting tools. Yep every time guild wars 2 wants to nerf its back to frost gorge, to run around in circles with multiple characters clicking the F key. Now why is farming bad.... its not really.... I have played lots of MMOs from eve, to runescape, to final fantasy 14. What makes it bad... is you have to pay attention... you have to be involved, but it's not interesting to be involved in chores. If you are gathering materials in rune scape... its cut the tree till your bag fills, or mine the rock till your bag fills.... i can watch netflix and farm so its like half playing.... Its not as terrible.... gulid wars 2 you get 2 berries per bush... then you have to run to the next one.... then you might have to push enemies off the bush just you can press the F key.... I wouldn't say this is terrible design... But when you are trying to sell you friends the game ... its really hard to say... oh yeah you will want the best gear for raid and fractals.... and you do that by gathering berries from a bush... logs from a stump .... and jade from ore..... UHHHHHHHHH...... My friend is one of the top tier raiders in Final 14 1% tile .... he won't touch this game because of this gate to entry... But more importantly the re spawn for nodes is once a day... (Anet did you guys really like farmville growing up?) Why do i have to wait a day..... i have the time now.... the next day i work.... But the final nail in the coffin is when you get a set of trinkets.... then they nerf it.... and now your can't use them anymore and you have to go get a whole new set.... I don't want to harvest berries hundreds of cycles every time i need a new bulid XD. Why does it Cost so much for 5-10%: Exotic set of armor costs mostly anywhere between 20-120 gold , depending on materials...Ascended costs 600-1200 gold. Plus most exotics can be obtained through playing the game and you don't have a gate like you do with raids.... But why does it cost soooo much more for a 10% stat increase... i know someone would say... 10% doesn't matter, skill is all you need... I agree... but that's like a trained martial artist saying yeah i could beat you up.... but a weapon... is probably going to increase you win rate.... especially if your opponent brings one too. I don't understand the cost ratio for this. Why can't dungeons give out ascended armor now... why only exotic? Which brings me to my next point. Perpetual first job hell (also known as a beginner trying to join a raid group) : Fractals are fun, and dungeons are fun... why? Because you can jump in the content and start playing..... raids its like a job interview.... I know they are doing strike missions.... but hear me out.... the problem is not the difficulty ceiling... its accessibility. If i can spend my time learning rotations and watching raid bosses on youtube i would.... but i am to busy just trying to get the "proper" build for raiding. I raided in FF 14 i did just fine.... the gear is easy to grab...... However, if you saw the top of the post its not fast getting 1200 gold for ascended armor and berry farm for trinkets. By the time i have finally got everything i need, now i run into the 2 final problems..... Finding a group that will take the new guy.....The raid group doesn't want my build anymore because its nerfed or not good enough.The second one is soul crushing.... nothing is worse then working hundreds of hours saving up tons of gold... to find out your build isn't worth it anymore..... I have had this happen twice to me and my friend has had it happen once to her. WE WON'T raid because of this..... its not fun! It's border line terrible. The difference is fractals and dungeons even if your build isn't perfect... they will take you because the content isn't soul crushing.... Raid.... I was doing 23000 instead of 27000 on the tic o meter and i get a whisper... get your dps up or your kicked.... Strike missions or not.... I can raid in ff 14 because i get the gear from the market board... and i am ready to go.... if i want to raid in GW2 it have to take out a loan... get second job.... and kick my girlfriend out to keep up with the gear alone.... Then when that is done.... because its once a week rewards i have to find a group who wants to do the content... then make sure i can pencil them into my schedule... Final note to save the argument yes you personally might not kick me for 23000 instead of 27000.... but you are one person in a sea of thousands.... Which probably doesn't play with first timers because your already great and have a regular group..... the rest of us weren't super fortunate.... I guess you will just have to settle for second best: The real reason i am writing this post... is because of build syndrome. When this game is great... (WVW, PVP, the 2 raids i could do before they nerfed, fractals and dungeons) The game is alot of fun.... i mean it i have come back to this game because of the action oriented game play and the pvp is stellar.... but why then does the rest of my game feel like its stale. Its because of inflexibility of builds.... now i know you say but nerfing is a good thing with the builds, which promotes more game play instead of same overpowered builds... Well good person you are right and wrong.... because if nerfing promotes better play.... why am i excited to find out i can still use my minstrel gear in WVW for my guardian? Its because that is what i have and i don't want to take the enormous amount of time to change it. Best part about GW1 was diversity of builds and PVP is the best example of it.... why? availability of tools. If i don't have the tools i don't want the nerf.... if i do have the tools then i do want the nerf.... Its really hard to play wvw with friends who bring what ever they have to group... because they don't have the tools to bring the best... it doesn't promote game play it hinders it. Most don't want to play because, they lose to the best groups who do have the gear..... My theory, the reason why everyone has alot of the same bulids is because they can't min and max using extra tools... That is why metabattle still thinks power scourge is the best for 9 months..... A ranger maybe has a great wvw zerg build if you combine other gear and skills never used before... The reason why everyone plays long bow is because its been untouched for a year..... and it does the job... it may not even be the best....It may not even need a nerf.... but the fact that its untouched is why people play it.... because they don't have to change. It..... We would have a lot crazier and more dynamic builds in all formats if everyone had access to the tools... sadly the only people who can with legendary gear.... are probably burned out on the game from the immense grind. My Suggestion: I hate to just call things out with out helping with a solution so these are my ideas. Make the top tear rewards more about skins and titles rather than stats and barriers. The problem with GW2 is that top tier stuff like legendary and ascended takes a long time to get.... this doesn't lift the skill ceiling.... but actually just moves the goal post...... way farther than it has to be.... Getting ascended armor isn't really a hard thing to do or even rewarding.... it is just plain time consuming or a real life money sink.... I think Anet thinks the way to prolong the game life is by making players suffer through the time gates.....This could be remedied if instead of getting "stats" the players got, bragging rights, skins, shinnies, it would be better.... The problem is black lion chest and gem stores hold all the best stuff.... because they need to make money.... if those items were moved off the gem store and given as raid rewards you would see alot more players in raids... also they would get much more revenue... because instead of the few people playing the surprise mechanics, they would be buying useful things because they are playing more ( infinite harvesting tools, bank space, level boosters, character slots and others). Plus you would take the moral high ground of being one of the only games that doesn't promote RNG style purchases. They are losing out on the best part the game offers which diversity of play... Right now the game promotes 1 class type play... honestly if you want my advice pick a armor class you like.... then only play that... By the time you have sank 1200 gold into 9 characters worth of ascended gear.... you could have 9 different heavy sets that would work just like legendary armor and move among the 3 classes.... my suggestion is go with heavy or light.... because those classes get the most requests for content.... i swear..... i gave up on characters entirely... i don't care what they look like... what they do... or anything... because i realized the cost isn't worth it... i basically focus on my heavy class only now... It's the cut i had to make not the one i wanted to make... I only use the other classes in pvp arena or the famous berry farm..... speaking of which. Make the ascended trinkets that you get from berry farming have changeable stats at all times. This will get everyone out of the berry farm and into the good content.... I know then what is the point of the legendary armor right? Well honestly i think all ascended armor should also be changeable stats.... You spent 1200 gold on this armor you should get something better than a 5% stat increase.... Doesn't that make legendary armor not as amazing ascended you would ask?.... No you can still have legendary armor change stats too!!! However.... what your paying for is the skin... honestly the skin alone and the goal of getting one should be enough for people to want them.... Your paying for some of the coolest looking weapons i have seen in mmo history... that should be enough... I think these two adjustments with the gem store focusing on services rather than surprise mechanics and skins.... will help guild wars 2 tremendously. The best part of guild wars 2 in my opinion is the class diversity. You play FF 14 its a dragoon.... it does one thing use one weapon and is only dps. A guardian... can be healer, DPS, tank, Condi, Crit, meme.... so many choices with one class..... I think Anet in favor of making money lost the best part of their game which was the ability to play your class your way.... I don't despise them for making money... i mean its a company it has to make money... and that is great.... if you need subscriptions to make the money rather than gouge us hundreds to get legendary weapons i would rather pay that fee. Treat the game like you treat you PVP. With great updates, fun game play, and endless opportunity!

I am also having fun with this I am learning a lot about raids and stuff. Might get meter.... and I don’t hold any bad feelings towards anyone... I just have a lot of questions. And it fills the void when I am waiting on friends to decide what they want for dinner.... I said in a previous post that I get maybe get 6 hours a week of gw2 if lucky (shout out busy engineer life) ... I just know that I was in two guilds 1 hard core (like most of the pros in the thread) and the other chill.... it’s fascinating the evolution.... the hard core one disband but the chilled one is still going strong. Maybe that is now my style. I just would like my chill game to stay chill... maybe that’s selfish ... but I pugged a t 4 fractal and now I have a new thing to worry about. But I guess even now when I pug a group.., I gotta watch my back >.>

Then don't join the groups that ask for those, why is that so hard to understand? Why are you trying to force your ideology that players should play with you, or others like you? And those that don't want to you call them toxic? Who is name calling and blaming? Look at the mirror. If you aren't a "pro", go join others who aren't "pro", you can join the "pro" when you are also a "pro". It's not very hard to understand isn't it? But then he can never complete the extremely difficult encounters in gw2 raiding :D :D :D Every boss is challenge mode if you're the one that is challenged. Just look at his posts. Easy to get the picture.Who taught pros? How do you become a pro? Can a pro play with me if they want? Can pros teach? I guess I am lost on the teacher aspect of this statement but he took me out of context. How do I know when I am a pro. What is your measure of pro. When can I join the pros? If I only join those who aren’t pros, how do we learn and become pros? How does any of this have to do with my point of meters being used as ways of toxic? Those are all subjective questions....Maybe you can answer the question since he can’t how can you determine the toxicity of a player using a dps meter. If it is impossible to prove that, isn’t it an ideology? Does that mean he is using his ideology to weed out great people who are just trying because, his ideology claims it’s toxic and he is allowed to remove toxic people? How is that not a toxic ideology?

Then don't join the groups that ask for those, why is that so hard to understand? Why are you trying to force your ideology that players should play with you, or others like you? And those that don't want to you call them toxic? Who is name calling and blaming? Look at the mirror. If you aren't a "pro", go join others who aren't "pro", you can join the "pro" when you are also a "pro". It's not very hard to understand isn't it? Dodging the question again and taking me out of context..... it’s really getting aggravating.... I am trying to be nice..... but I’ll try again. You took the leap and said you can deduce toxic players using a dps meter. A dps meter can detect dps.... but it has no direct connection to toxicity.... thus, we can only conclude that the only way you can come to that conclusion is through an ideology.... that the meter has extra damaging context.... now I don’t understand how being a pro is a negative term.... but ok... I apologize your not a pro... but if not a pro.... what would you like? Cause I can use an antonym if you like? Which may make sense cause I can guess a pro knows how the meter works...and they would admit it is impossible to determine player intent. If you don’t make your dps number does that make you toxic.... so I say this again for all to see. This is the example why I don’t like the meter.... he has claimed people are automatically toxic by using the meter as weapon to measure people. There could be many factors why people may not make their number.... and they could be great people who are trying their best..... maybe at the most misguided....but you sir have said no they are toxic automatically and used your meter as your authority to ridicule... that I don’t stand for. And I promise the only name calling I have used is pro I guarantee if I ever respond again ... I won’t make that mistake again, since it seemed to upset you.

If a majority of players spent just a little time on the damage golem and practiced their rotations (or even made sure they understood their class) this would not be an issue. That said, no you are not forced to use a damage meter. Some practice on the golem is fine. A damage meter would obviously help you personally to identify and see your performance. Since a vast majority of players don't practice and are clueless as to their class combined with the insane difference in performance between bad and good players, there is a huge rift. It is not uncommon for player who go to the damage golem without any outside help or resources to not break 3-4k damage per second. Given almost every class can break 30k dps, that should put this disparity in perspective. People who want to be toxic, will be toxic. No tool is going to protect you from that. It's also not what the tool is there for. If you are forced into arguing with other people about performance, you might as well leave the group since it's rarely an individuals fault. Most often it's a combination of factors usually stemming from multiple players not being as experienced as they'd like to believe they are and since it's always easier to blame others... you get my drift. Because it's not that important to the game. For 90% of this games content, it's not needed. The only place where a damage meter is useful (again, not needed but useful) is challenging endgame pve content. The amount of that content present and the fraction of the player base playing this content is way smaller than the total games population. As far as this games challenging content versus regular say open world content: it's easiest to think of both as 2 separate games which look alike, because they are. That seems like a fair trade off if you think of it as two separate games....and I can agree.... it’s just disappointing when it shows up once in a blue moon and I go oh yeah I am not playing a game.... I am working a profession.... cause I got to please this guy or girl.... so much fun...jumping into pug groups there is no written contract so it just makes it tough.... we fighting the mobs ... we running past the mobs... it changes with every group... I thought it is more dynamic to work together and get to know some one.... now it’s show up do your role, meet the number .... ok now go away....

Very selfish mentality in my opinion. This isn't personal information we are talking here, it is your contribution to the group. DPS does matter a lot and it is not unreasonable to expect others to pull their weight in a group. There's is a difference between being 'toxic' and expecting someone in a certain setting (such as a T4 fractal or a raid advertised as EXP) to be able to pull something even close to the benchmark of the class they are playing. Benchmarks are created by the community, not ArenaNet. I'm not sure why I should abide to those "maximum performance numbers". Also, this seems to only be made for max speed clear up. You should judge someone by their knowledge and skills of their class instead of said numbers. The goal of a raid and fractal is to clear it, right? Why are the community so focused on monitoring people to see if they are pulling the maximum number an "elite" guild has determined an individual must do? Sorry, I still disagree with the mentality of of seeing DPS of others especially since raids and fractals are mechanics-dependant. Well it kinda is created by anet, bosses have a percentage you need to get to phase them or kill them before an enrage. It is a numbers game, they arent infinite pinatas you can wail on for an hour and whittle them down. The numbers are set by the game. In order to win you either have to help beat those numbers or have a group willing to carry you. I training raid ,my dps is trash most of the time but because my guild isnt hard kittens about it im allowed to raid with them. My advice is find a good guild and network with them. When i started my dps on carin was abysmal like 2300, i can now hit a lot better but still not top dps for my class, but im learning the mechanics and not dying like i used to. A lot of our group is missing for summer, but when we have our group we can clear out wings 4 and 1 in 2 hours. A guild team makes all the difference for people that arent top raiders, they can help you. I think meters are a good tool, but like anything its how they are used. People that are toxic are going to be toxic meter or not. And you have to also be willing to use the tool to improve yourself. It’s a well stated thought and I have no arguments with it. I like your concise point with it’s not the meter but the people. It is a good thing to remember. I am disappointed that the game is reduced to specific rotations and no creativity to win.... but I can’t decide if it is the meters that did it or th players who used them to write the websites....I just think it would be nice to think my open world mmo was a little more open. But I get you perfection is key for clearing content and repetition is boring. But I guess I don’t know the aim.... because it doesn’t feel like I did it.... it feels like a website instruction manual did it.i get using build or referencing for help...only so many combinations.... it’s the press these buttons in specific order gets you this meter result that just maybe rubs me the wrong way.... and that last part is definitely an opinion.That last statement is my opinion... the rotation is not... I need to clarify before someone jumps on that and says no it’s calculated... I get that part.

Very selfish mentality in my opinion. This isn't personal information we are talking here, it is your contribution to the group. DPS does matter a lot and it is not unreasonable to expect others to pull their weight in a group. There's is a difference between being 'toxic' and expecting someone in a certain setting (such as a T4 fractal or a raid advertised as EXP) to be able to pull something even close to the benchmark of the class they are playing. Benchmarks are created by the community, not ArenaNet. I'm not sure why I should abide to those "maximum performance numbers". Also, this seems to only be made for max speed clear up. You should judge someone by their knowledge and skills of their class instead of said numbers. The goal of a raid and fractal is to clear it, right? Why are the community so focused on monitoring people to see if they are pulling the maximum number an "elite" guild has determined an individual must do? Sorry, I still disagree with the mentality of of seeing DPS of others especially since raids and fractals are mechanics-dependant. Well it kinda is created by anet, bosses have a percentage you need to get to phase them or kill them before an enrage. It is a numbers game, they arent infinite pinatas you can wail on for an hour and whittle them down. The numbers are set by the game. In order to win you either have to help beat those numbers or have a group willing to carry you. I training raid ,my dps is trash most of the time but because my guild isnt hard kittens about it im allowed to raid with them. My advice is find a good guild and network with them. When i started my dps on carin was abysmal like 2300, i can now hit a lot better but still not top dps for my class, but im learning the mechanics and not dying like i used to. A lot of our group is missing for summer, but when we have our group we can clear out wings 4 and 1 in 2 hours. A guild team makes all the difference for people that arent top raiders, they can help you. I think meters are a good tool, but like anything its how they are used. People that are toxic are going to be toxic meter or not. And you have to also be willing to use the tool to improve yourself. It’s a well stated thought and I have no arguments with it. I like your concise point with it’s not the meter but the people. It is a good thing to remember. I am disappointed that the game is reduced to specific rotations and no creativity to win.... but I can’t decide if it is the meters that did it or th players who used them to write the websites....I just think it would be nice to think my open world mmo was a little more open. But I get you perfection is key for clearing content and repetition is boring. But I guess I don’t know the aim.... because it doesn’t feel like I did it.... it feels like a website instruction manual did it.i get using build or referencing for help...only so many combinations.... it’s the press these buttons in specific order gets you this meter result that just maybe rubs me the wrong way.... and that last part is definitely an opinion.

You forgot the import distinction. It’s not the willingness to play the sport. It’s forcing me to play a position I don’t want to play, because you said so. Argument from authority. If the person doesn’t want to fight kick. But if they are trying... well kick them to because they are not Payton Manning..... If the team is looking for a quarterback with x credentials they should keep you even if you arent even playing quarterback or have said credentials?I wouldn’t say so in a recreational sport for fun. My sister plays in a work football league...she never played football professionally in her life and she asked to be quarterback..... they said sure and she does ok.... but that is the point .... it’s a game not a profession.... I expect nothing less from Payton Manning who gets paid.... but a for fun game.... I really feel bad if you are all expecting pro level with compensation..... which is why I don’t raid... I don’t have time to be professional for you for free...but now we all have to assume that the only way to raid is at the professional level. Is that really true? And if so I am glad you all found a hobby but it’s a hobby.

You dictate how others should play by asking them to take you into their groups. You are being toxic, inconsiderate, rude and disrespectful by trying to put your desires and needs above anyone else's. This selfish behavior of yours is the exact reason why dps meters should stay as a tool to identify toxic players that fit your description. This is my point you have now linked the dps meter as the ability identify toxic players..... please identify the leap here this my problem with your answers. Another person way higher in the thread already answered my question and I conceded on his point for dps meters. Can you stop blaming, name calling and categorizing players. You are the example of why I don’t like the meter. You have now claimed it can do more then what it does. Maybe the player can’t afford the gear... maybe the player is practicing and doesn’t fully grasp... maybe they can do it perfect with a golem ( such as myself) and have a harder time when extra mechanics are thrown in. I am sorry we can’t all be pros.... but you sir just keep proving my point time and time again: the meter is toxic if you don’t understand it’s true purpose....that’s like saying everyone who doesn’t play your way is toxic.....now who is being inconsiderate, rude and disrespectful. When you are forcing an ideology that the meter is can do more then what was intended and then calling people names who don’t agree....

Hypothetically those numbers would be totally fine in 90% of all raiding groups and probably more in all fractal groups.We pointed out earlier: It's not the people that don't do nearly as much as the dps benchmark - can differ from 65%-90+% depending on the demands of the group. Really, no pug group compares your dps with the actual possible numbers. In most cases you see numbers that are good for beating the encounters in a comfortable way and time. It's the extremes who draw attention. And on the negative site it's the people who join experienced runs and do around 20% of the actual benchmark which is literally autoattacking (skill 1) while playing a meta gear dps class. If you fill a dps spot and come along with such numbers you should have either practiced more on the golem or played a support class instead and would have helped much more, that's all. In your example with the renegade, 2 daredevils and the druid you haven't had a very good team composition and bad circumstances (bow druid, player without enough AR etc.). Maybe you were to blame for some things, maybe not. We can't tell we weren't there. But I doubt that you had a bigger negative impact in this group than the druid and the renegade. So, it's possible that the one who whispered you didn't realize the issues and just blamed you because of your numbers. That's not very farseeing but happens from time to time - it's not the standard. On the other hand if those daredevils performed well they would have carried the group because even a non-optimized group is able to handle the final boss. For me it seems that you all were decent players but nobody with superior knowledge or experience in this fractal. This can happen and is not a drama. The next run you will slip through and ask yourself what was that the other day? With experience you'll be able to notice who isn't performing as he should. You will then be in the spot to either help or maybe leave the group because you just wanted to have a decent to smooth daily run. Cool I am out of questions that was pretty much everything. This maybe a stretch, but now it feels like I have to download a Dps meter to keep people honest and not for game play assistance. It sounds like it has a couple of interesting functions that can help people play better. However, the way I am gathering. Idk who else has one and i can’t prove it. So now I have to make sure I have one, so I can prove right or wrong.Kind of feels like I am at a big disadvantage in defending myself.I am very much surprised and exceptionally pleased that most people are not holding me to perfect rotation numbers . In contrast though it still seems I have to download an outside program to have data to keep people honest. Which is problematic because in the long run even if I have the meter and I am in the right. Would that stop anyone from still accusing. I mean how much time is wasted grabbing that data and then sending it to everyone in the group to defend your play? Also if it was as import as the group claims, I don’t understand why it isn’t part of the game. It seems like we’re asking everyone, hey I know you bought this complicated game, but before you play...... please download this outside program not supplied by the makers.... and oh by the way it still doesn’t guarantee that people still can’t lie or set you up. So even if you point fingers the right way.... in my case it might be the daredevil can accuse the guardian of being bad because they picked the proper build for the team because they know they don’t need a special set up and then can use their higher number to call out the person for being thrown all over the place....because they have 3 dodges..... that do damage.... with traits that give them endurance recharge and they tell you don’t use your utilities ... kitten golems.

Again consult the meter for more context. If they're saying you specifically had low dps then the natural question is, well compared to who? did the other dps slots in my party have higher dps? How were they able to avoid getting CCed? maybe they were doing something differently than I. After consulting the combat log, you either come to 2 different conclusions.The dude had no idea what he was talking about because everyone's dps was equally low across the board and I should have stuck to my guns and brought party support boons.I learn something new about class options or how to approach the boss in the absence of meta supports providing boons. I think your example cited 2 daredevils which hypothetically would do better in a supportless setting because of their abundant dodges and the ability to maintain rotations while dodging. Your basically answering everything I questioned. Where were you yesterday. You could have saved me a whole day of posting.

There was no toxicity you gave me advice that went against the grain. You then said I sucked and the team sucked.....which is basically the point of this thread. You jumped to toxic by saying I am bad. So I am not allowed to fight back? Would you like to retrace the threads? I explained sometimes meters and metas are subjective call. Then you claimed I still sucked.... again should we count at how many times you said I was bad at the game? You don’t even know me. Maybe go reread what you wrote and what I wrote. Hint: you were the one who stated: So as far as badmouthing or critizising, no one in this thread went there earlier than you. I merely went into detail what was wrong with the setup and gave pointers. Yes, I called out mistakes you made, because those were mistakes you made. I didn't call you idiot or you sucked, I literally gave you advice realizing you are a less experienced player. Maybe go reread what I wrote and how you responded Oh my god I am such a jerk I mentioned my team to set up a point which was that the meta people said my dps wasn’t meta.... you even agreed. I apologize from now on I won’t give contexts to stories.... Now you might understand why some of us were baffled (also read Vinces comments in that context). We were literally assuming you were asking how to get help in this situation. Fine, it was a misunderstanding, it happens. I think we have derailed the thread long enough. As far as meta builds, metabattle often has small guides when to use what, most of it comes with practice. As for people being toxic in game: block, report, move on. Oh ignore my last thread I read this after you posted again. I was grateful for the advice and that was my point which was saying hey maybe these meters and metas are wrong. I wanted to use retreat and stand your ground the meta guy said no it’s not meta. Then when I couldn’t get off an attack then he used a meter to bludgeon me to death with I am not good enough.... I then admit I got carried away... but the truth was I had no point of getting caught up in the thread. It was a recent incident that bugged me I wanted to see if others had an contributed my thoughts. Maybe get some answers. I used your response to further my point which fueled a bigger argument. No harm done I want to play the game another guardian gave me advice beat you to it.... but I just wanted to say hey guys lay-off they players who are trying to do their best and learn.... I don’t raid which maybe sad cause I potentially wanted to but... it’s threads like these where I go nope these people don’t want to help. They want their spread sheets, websites, and numbers. Good luck to you too. I'm pretty sure the active posters in here aren't going into groups that very obviously labelled "training, chill, new, learning" and using the meter to bash the group. It's almost always the reverse of someone who is looking for "training, chill, new, learning" that joins a 100 kill proof group, gets called out and then comes here to complain about DPS meters. Not saying you're one of these players. Also fyi, arc dps and parsing tools associated with arc show data like number of attacks evaded, blocked, number of times you hit F on your teammates, number of times you got chosen for mechanics, number of boss attacks you got hit with, your skill usage, your positioning during a boss fight and so much more. There's all of this contextual information that people complaining about meters don't seem to know about because they don't use the tool themselves and then complain that they're being judged by "just" a number. As someone who is learning, all of this contextual information is the stuff you should be craving not fearing. How far out of position was I? How many times did I get hit by that aoe? Arcdps tells you all of this.This is a very insight full post and I appreciate the information. I am mostly going for information. The issue I take is not the tool but the people who bully with the tool. I had taco great tool but my computer crashed and I don’t know why... so wary of programs. So I guess I have to take your word for it. But my question is I changed my bios for fractal. It’s more my style less intense and reliant on dodging. I do 26 k dps instead of 31 k like the website meta says.... am I in the wrong?