Mesmer vs. other classes in pve

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

 

Granted but this is gw2 and in Gw2 Mesmers have clones, traits are built around the idea as are weapons that generate clones, and the shatters. Just saying....

 

I would have probably tried Virt if it wasnt stuck with those daggers over its head all day long. However, it does and so I did not try it and cant see playing it.

And virtuoso manages to benefit from all of those traits and skills without having clones. Just saying. 

It also still maintains an illusion focus thanks to phantasms, so the core concept is still there. It's still a mesmer, it's just a version that relies a little less on the illusion mechanics, for better or worse.

[Nezekan.2671]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

And virtuoso manages to benefit from all of those traits and skills without having clones. Just saying. 

It also still maintains an illusion focus thanks to phantasms, so the core concept is still there. It's still a mesmer, it's just a version that relies a little less on the illusion mechanics, for better or worse.

Not all of those traits. The trait that causes illusion crits to cause bleed and the traits that increase illusion strike damage has minimal effect on Virtuoso, if any.

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Not all of those traits. The trait that causes illusion crits to cause bleed and the traits that increase illusion strike damage has minimal effect on Virtuoso, if any.

Virtuosos still have phantasms. Phantasms were always the main beneficiary of the trait that increases strike damage for illusions - outside of mirage clone ambushes, clone strike damage was always pretty negligible. Sharper Images was more heavily affected, but again, phantasms still exist, and most core phantasms have multi-strike attacks.

The bigger impact is on core weapons - Sceptre and Staff lose a lot more from losing clones than either of the power weapons do.

[Nezekan.2671]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Virtuosos still have phantasms. Phantasms were always the main beneficiary of the trait that increases strike damage for illusions - outside of mirage clone ambushes, clone strike damage was always pretty negligible. Sharper Images was more heavily affected, but again, phantasms still exist, and most core phantasms have multi-strike attacks.

The bigger impact is on core weapons - Sceptre and Staff lose a lot more from losing clones than either of the power weapons do.

The illusion bleed on crit is significant too, especially since viper gear exists. It's so good, that it can outdamage shattering altogether if you have 3 clones attacking permanently, unless you can replace them immediately after shattering.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:08 PM, Nezekan.2671 said:

The illusion bleed on crit is significant too, especially since viper gear exists. It's so good, that it can outdamage shattering altogether if you have 3 clones attacking permanently, unless you can replace them immediately after shattering.

So? It still has an effect, which was the point I made. I acknowledged that it has less of an effect for virtuoso, but it's pretty common for an elite specialisation to make some core traits more or less valuable. Virtuoso still creates illusions, it just relies on them less than other mesmers... but it is absolutely still a mesmer.