Phantasmal Defender does not work with Delayed Reactions

[SeTect.5918]

As the title says, I found out that Phantasmal_Defender does not work with Delayed_Reactions.

Phantasmal Defender is actually listed in "Related Skills" in the wiki for Delayed reactions as "Utility skills that are improved by this trait", but Phantasmal defender does not apply slow to any normal enemies or enemies with breakbar.
Taunt is also listed as disabling a foe on the Delayed Reactions trait.

I think it works like that because technically the illusion taunts the enemy and not the player. But imo traits like these should also work with disables by illusions.

[Mevelios.4809]

Maybe your target had already been affected by a previous CC? Delayed reactions works with a 3s CD. Otherwise maybe it only triggers when it interrupts an attack, the same way our many interrupting traits only trigger on a successful interrupt rather than just on applying daze/stun to an idle target?

Edited January 11 by Mevelios.4809

[SeTect.5918]

7 minutes ago, Mevelios.4809 said:

Maybe your target had already been affected by a previous CC? Delayed reactions works with a 3s CD. Otherwise maybe it only triggers when it interrupts an attack, the same way our many interrupting traits only trigger on a successful interrupt rather than just on applying daze/stun to an idle target?

Nope, i waited until the cooldown was over. I also tested it on fresh enemies where my first attack was the defender to make sure there is no cooldown at all running at that time.

I didnt test on interrupt on normal enemies, but on a boss. I made Counter_Blade on the boss, which is a cc. This one inflicted slow on the boss. Like 10 seconds later i did use defender on the same boss and that one didnt inflict slow.
Additionally the trait clearly states "disabling" and not "interrupting". This would be a tooltip issue at this point, but interrupt traits normally also work on bosses, which is also the case with this trait, since Counter blade did indeed inflict slow, while the defender didnt. I tested it multiple times and in no scenario it inflicted slow, while other ccs did.

It seems like a bug or like an unintended "feature" of CCs of illusions not counting as your own CCs.

[Mevelios.4809]

26 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I didnt test on interrupt on normal enemies, but on a boss. I made Counter_Blade on the boss, which is a cc. This one inflicted slow on the boss. Like 10 seconds later i did use defender on the same boss and that one didnt inflict slow.
Additionally the trait clearly states "disabling" and not "interrupting". This would be a tooltip issue at this point, but interrupt traits normally also work on bosses, which is also the case with this trait, since Counter blade did indeed inflict slow, while the defender didnt. I tested it multiple times and in no scenario it inflicted slow, while other ccs did.

Was it timed with a boss' action? Interrupting traits indeed work on bosses, whether the defiance bar is up or not; it must be timed during the boss' attack though, maybe the defender was slightly off on the timing.

You're giving me a doubt however, can't remember whether the Mage works properly or not on these... Well, it has quite some delay in its attack though, so timing's always a pain. But almost sure the mage triggers properly Chaotic interruption. Maybe a bug indeed?

[SeTect.5918]

8 minutes ago, Mevelios.4809 said:

Was it timed with a boss' action? Interrupting traits indeed work on bosses, whether the defiance bar is up or not; it must be timed during the boss' attack though, maybe the defender was slightly off on the timing.

That could be indeed. But i doubt it because this trait is there for years now and i dont think that none ever wouldve noticed that this trait only works on interrupt instead of the stated disabling. The Wiki also doesnt mention any wrong Information about the tooltip or something like that. 

13 minutes ago, Mevelios.4809 said:

You're giving me a doubt however, can't remember whether the Mage works properly or not on these... Well, it has quite some delay in its attack though, so timing's always a pain. But almost sure the mage triggers properly Chaotic interruption. Maybe a bug indeed?

Ah i fully forgot there is actually another skill like that With illusion cc. 

I did already shut down my computer tho. I will have to further test these two tomorrow. Sadly i really think its a bug tho. 

[SeTect.5918]

I just looked at the Version history of this trait and the 1st october 2019 Update Patch states that it works on all disables and not just interrupts since then:

"This trait no longer grants alacrity but now triggers on any control effect rather than only on interrupts. Added a 3-second cooldown per target"

Edited January 11 by SeTect.5918

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

I mean, I think it's better that it doesn't. A slowed enemy attacks slower, meaning fewer blocks, meaning lower damage when the illusion explodes.

[SeTect.5918]

4 hours ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

I mean, I think it's better that it doesn't. A slowed enemy attacks slower, meaning fewer blocks, meaning lower damage when the illusion explodes.

Works bad with the trait that increases your critical hit chance by 15% on slowed enemies tho. 

This phantasm also isnt really used on normal enemies because they die before the Illusion even starts its cast because you burst them down with other skills pretty fast because chrono is power. Its good on champions tho because these are not affected by slow. 

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

44 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Works bad with the trait that increases your critical hit chance by 15% on slowed enemies tho. 

This phantasm also isnt really used on normal enemies because they die before the Illusion even starts its cast because you burst them down with other skills pretty fast because chrono is power. Its good on champions tho because these are not affected by slow. 

Okay understandable, then it really should work consitetntly.

[Mevelios.4809]

Chrono isn't the only way to play it; condis can take some heat off their back with it while building their stacks. Personally I've given up on it because on the opposite, considering the lengthy cast & CD, I only find use for it to take away a few adds from me - which is rather difficult because of its short radius. Making it capable however to deliver simultaneously taunt & slow (which is expected from the tooltips) on a boss makes for a great soft CC ability!

[SeTect.5918]

1 hour ago, Mevelios.4809 said:

Chrono isn't the only way to play it; condis can take some heat off their back with it while building their stacks. Personally I've given up on it because on the opposite, considering the lengthy cast & CD, I only find use for it to take away a few adds from me - which is rather difficult because of its short radius. Making it capable however to deliver simultaneously taunt & slow (which is expected from the tooltips) on a boss makes for a great soft CC ability!

Yeah tho I was mainly talking about having Delayed Reactions in mind which is a chrono trait. Chrono also gets the most out of it if using Double-phantasm trait which makes it pop up 2x instead of 1x.
It also works on other e specs ofc.

I will start gw2 in a few minutes so I will test if it also doesnt work on other on-cc-traits to find out if its just a bug with the trait or with all ccs inflicted by illusions.

Edited January 12 by SeTect.5918

[Mevelios.4809]

2 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Yeah tho I was mainly talking about having Delayed Reactions in mind which is a chrono trait. Chrono also gets the most out of it if using Double-phantasm trait which makes it pop up 2x instead of 1x.

True, been derailing from the topic - my bad!

[SeTect.5918]

19 minutes ago, Mevelios.4809 said:

True, been derailing from the topic - my bad!

No worries.

However. I did some tests on the Champion_Tarnished_Sage in auric basin because this is basically a test golem.
Results:

• Phantasmal_Mage which has a cc done by an illusion does work with Delayed_Reactions
• Other cc utility skills or weapon skills done by the player also work with Delayed_Reactions
• Phantasmal_Defender which has a cc done by an illusion does not work with Delayed_Reactions
• Phantasmal_Mage does work with traits on interrupt. Phantasmal_Defender does not work with traits on interrupt even if the enemy casts an attack.

So it is no bug with CCs done by Illusions and no bug with Delayed Reactions.
It is a bug with phantasmal defender seemingly not counting as cc even tho having taunt on it and Delayed reactions stating that it also works with taunt and fear.

[Mevelios.4809]

11 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

It is a bug with phantasmal defender seemingly not counting as cc even tho having taunt on it and Delayed reactions stating that it also works with taunt and fear.

Taunt being a condition largely forgotten and almost removed from the game, sadly I suppose it was abandoned halfway with its few remaining issues. Didn't check if it had been reported before; maybe trying it with a rev on Jalis (with Forced engagement - oh look, taunt & slow! 😆) while one of these traits Dwarven battle training/Words of censure/Ashen demeanor would yield similar results (as in, not triggering them on a successful taunt)? I thought it may work on ordinary adds, but you already stated it weren't triggering even on trash mobs... 

[Noodle Ant.1605]

this was discussed a while ago

the taunt is sourced from the phantasm (which doesnt have the trait) so that affected enemies target the phantasm, not the mesmer

on the other hand, cc from phantasmal mage, mirage sword and dagger clones, etc. are sourced from the mesmer (same as condis)

getting delayed reactions (and likely any other “on disable” effect) to work with phantasmal defender therefore requires a very specific workaround that i can only guess is probably not worthwhile implementing. the most likely way for this to work would be to replace it with an entirely different skill