What is the thinking behind this?

[Flowki.7194]

I don't know if it is just people doing their own thing, living out a Boyce roam fantasy, or if I am missing some big brain high IQ play:

 

At the start of the round, somebody goes near, 4 are approaching mid, but then 1 of them go far. Those going mid are now at risk of a +1 if enemy don't have 1 going far (seen it countless times on both teams). One or two of us die, or we are in retreat mode before the near cap team mate joins mid. To counter that, when I see a team mate going far at start, I try to ping the map for all to go far so we can win far, then potentially +1 mid or at-least even number it, yet most do not follow that ping, forcing me to go mid to help. If I go far (tried it), sure we win that fight, but then we lose mid and are now walking into a +1 at-least, and cannot contest mid, forcing us into bad rotations or back to spawn to build numbers.

 

That has been my experiance with the guy (almost 9/10 times an SPB) who goes far. What am I missing? Are we expected to go mid into a +1? Shold th near cap guy not go near? Or is the guy going far just playing for himself?

Edited June 15 by Flowki.7194

[Unknown.6851]

Never commit more than one to far off spawn unless they can port out fast. If someone runs right through the node, play super defensively off node until your far either wins or dies. If they get +d you know you're in a 4v3 now and can snowball as long as nobody dies. If they lose the 1v1 you guys will undoubtedly get snowballed, so go home, not far and regroup if youre a clunk team, send one to decap far if youre a mobile team. Tell the idiot that died to not do that again please and keep going til you win. 

 

Don't focus on peeling for your teammates unless they're semi competent. This one is important lol. 

[Flowki.7194]

20 minutes ago, Unknown.6851 said:

Never commit more than one to far off spawn unless they can port out fast. If someone runs right through the node, play super defensively off node until your far either wins or dies. If they get +d you know you're in a 4v3 now and can snowball as long as nobody dies. If they lose the 1v1 you guys will undoubtedly get snowballed, so go home, not far and regroup if youre a clunk team, send one to decap far if youre a mobile team. Tell the idiot that died to not do that again please and keep going til you win. 

 

Don't focus on peeling for your teammates unless they're semi competent. This one is important lol. 

Yeah I mentioned support by accident, but its not specific to when I play support. The thing is, I see decent players doing it, even plat, going far from the start, so I am conflicted if it is just me not understanding some higher tactic, or if they are just selfish/egotistical. Thats what makes it worse, becuse with the MMR, having one of the teams best players go far means some less experianced are going mid, which is reflected in that they never follow my pings, and just go full out into the 3v4. I basically commit to the 3v4 most of the time, becuase if I pull back to home or go to far, we still can't do anything as only 2. Going back to spawn to wait for the others.. I mightaswell die with them at that point, as at-least we had a chance of winning the 3v4 if enemy are bad, or if they only had 3 go mid. Either way the choices on my end do not seem good.

 

So it isnt the case that 1 guy going far at the start is a plat level tactic? If they are plat, they are just being selfish? A plat guy did it, we lost mid, he didn't even get far, so we were 1 cap to 2. I pointed that out and got the "shut up monkey you don't understand" kind of comments. I thought he might be right, but with 4 team mates dead and only 1 cap, you know.

Edited June 15 by Flowki.7194

[Unknown.6851]

Just now, Flowki.7194 said:

Yeah I mentioned support by accident, but its not specific to when I play support. The thing is, I see decent players doing it, even plat, going far from the start, so I am conflicted if it is just me not understanding some higher tactic, or if they are just selfish/egotistical. Thats what makes it worse, becuse with the MMR, having one of the teams best players go far means some less experianced are going mid, which is reflected in that they never follow my pings, and just go full out into the 3v4. I basically commit to the 3v4 most of the time, becuase if I pull back to home or go to far, we still can't do anything as only 2.. and going back to spawn to wait for the others.. I mightaswell die with them if you follow, as at-least we had a chance of winning the 3v4 if enemy are bad, or if they only had 3.

 

So it is not the case that 1 guy going far at the start is a plat level tactic? And if they are plat, they are just being selfish?

It's a super solid tactic if they can force a 1v2 or win multiple 1v1s back to back while contesting, which is usually a challenge and is why it's done for the most part. Egotistical and can be a rewarding carry, but can be crippling too. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I usually do it when the mid fight is clearly lost, to try to stretch out the opposing team and let people get back out of spawn.  

Going immediately is another matter, typically that should only be done if you know you can clear them off quick, as in addition to the 3v4 at mid, they could make it a 3v3 themselves, send one to your home and if they win that you are in bad position.  

[youle.5824]

It maybe the better play or a bad play depending on  a lot of factors, main one being comp and map. Exemple if other has a great tf comp (meta supp+2-3 dps) going sides is better call, map for example coliseum is great for sidenoders where as Djiin is better for teamfight comps since it is much smaller. Then there are multiple other factors, like match ups on sides, skills of sidenoders, etc. Depending on those, going far leaving your team mid 3v4 is sometime the best play and sometimes a throw. Btw if you expect your side noder to win far , you dont need to commit at mid fight, dont play for node play to live and your team will win map.

Edited June 15 by youle.5824

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I usually do it when the mid fight is clearly lost, to try to stretch out the opposing team and let people get back out of spawn.  

Going immediately is another matter, typically that should only be done if you know you can clear them off quick, as in addition to the 3v4 at mid, they could make it a 3v3 themselves, send one to your home and if they win that you are in bad position.  

Well, given its mostly solo que with a wide MMR, I don't think anybody can make that call. So from what you guys are saying, it sounds more like plat players applying higher level tactics in the wrong setting?

 

2 hours ago, youle.5824 said:

It maybe the better play or a bad play depending on  a lot of factors, main one being comp and map. Exemple if other has a great tf comp (meta supp+2-3 dps) going sides is better call, map for example coliseum is great for sidenoders where as Djiin is better for teamfight comps since it is much smaller. Then there are multiple other factors, like match ups on sides, skills of sidenoders, etc. Depending on those, going far leaving your team mid 3v4 is sometime the best play and sometimes a throw. Btw if you expect your side noder to win far , you dont need to commit at mid fight, dont play for node play to live and your team will win map.

But thats the issue, with the MMR you can garuntee there is at-least 1 oblivious of the mid -1, which basically forces you to get involved for the low chance you might actually win the fight, and not have to give up mid, then depend entirely on the go far pro getting and holding that cap +1 while you try to defend near if enough left alive.

[youle.5824]

38 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 you can garuntee there is at-least 1 oblivious of the mid -1, which basically forces you to get involved for the low chance you might actually win the fight, and not have to give up mid.

If someone is oblivious he is not someone you want to teamfight with anyway, if that happens even more reasons to bet on sides.

[Flowki.7194]

41 minutes ago, youle.5824 said:

If someone is oblivious he is not someone you want to teamfight with anyway, if that happens even more reasons to bet on sides.

There is always more chance of wining when working with the team, and its not uncommon for players who are great mechanically at their spec, to be aweful at defensive positioning/map reading, or just not care.. even some plats are like that. Plat WBs for example are some of the worse offenders, they overconfidently TP into the back line and are doing massive dmg, I have to push in with that to ensure a kill, CCing as much as possible so he doesn't melt after renew, or leave the fight altogether so we are down yet another dps.

 

I get what youre saying, but I guess I played too much support/hyrbid builds, you depend on team mates, so resing/peeling is a high priority, even though its often 1 way traffic, and can be a waste of time. Nothing worse than ressing somebody and they die a second later, or they then run off and leave you to die 😜 Gw2.

 

Edited June 15 by Flowki.7194