Please give guardian a valid tank build

[Etheri.5406]

@Sigfodr.9576 said:

@Etheri.5406 said:FB + ren has several issues. High-end meta is still 2 chrono 1 druid as 3 supports providing ALL required boons and a metric fuckton of CC.

Agree, for high end raids. Nothing atm beats 2*chrono + 1 condi druid.

However, very few groups can run this. And unless you are doing record runs, there is rarely a reason to do so either. So lets look at the more normal 2

chrono (1 minstreal) + 2

full heal druid settup that 99% of pug groups (and alot of static groups) run. Can they have a benefit (or equel) reason to swap a chono + druid out for a FB + Rev combo?

@Etheri.5406 said:Support ren easily gets 100% alac. Support FB easily gets 100% quickness. But both of those are IRRELEVANT because then you're stuck with 2 full healers which are STILL having worse CC, worse dmg modifiers (spirits, GoE, spotter, ...) AND worse boon uptime than chaos chrono + druid except aegis. Where do you get 100% fury? Eventually you have 4 supports instead of 3 which heal better, but do everything else worse, and are harder to play.

So high end? Not worth. Low end? Very difficult for mediocre to bad results too. In the middle? Still not going to happen.

You need a boss where players are stacked enough to reliably hit all mantras AND all the ren alac. You need bosses where you don't need full chaos boons... more doable nowadays. You need bosses where ren and FB are actually "good" as DPS options or they just fall off. Which leaves TWO bosses : sabetha and MO. Those two bosses? Chrono with DPS comps STILL win out.

Ren has great CC if you go staff. Fb has great CC if you spec into it. But can either of them, or the combo, do what chaos chrono does? Nope.

By all means its more than good enough to clear. It's just actually not better than chrono. Not in any way. Not the low end. Not the high end. Not in between. Not easier. Not situationally better. Just strictly worse (even if not that much in some situations).

Better to just run chrono chrono druid (+ off meta rev or FB depending on the boss) if you want to run 4 supports and carry pugs. If your good is group... Just go solo druid 2 chronos and it'll be better on almost everything.

Assuming we run 4 supports (like alot of groups generally do), 1 druid will be able to bring spirits for all. Might is easyly covered by 1 druid + the heal FB. Not to mention what extra a support/damage rev can add. Fury is covered by druid + FB (remember sword is 2*18 sec fury every 18 sec. quickness + alacrity is covered. The CC from FB is better then chrono.

So what are the benefits of FB+rev over chrono+druid in group 2? :Better condition control.Better cc.Better aegis uptime.Abit higher damage.

And the downsides:Harder to find people that play it.Atm buggy mantras.Harder to hit people with mantras

In my opinion druid nr. 2 is generally not needed, so it dont take alot to replace it. The hard part is to replace the chrono. But then again, we might not. If we just want the FB to tank, then the chrono can be there as support chrono and the FB can just have taken the spot of druid nr. 2. Is this better then 2

chrono + 1 druid, no. But its prob better or as good as 2

chrono + 2*druid.In the same way can support rev or support necro also tank if that is what people want to. And they to bring more then the normal second druid. Just like they can be healer nr. 2 and take that druids spot that way. And all 3 classes bring more then druid nr. 2 in any fight.

We'll sometimes run double healer on W5, xera, maybe matthias, maybe deimos, maybe VG. On other bosses, we honestly don't. You don't need to be a speedrun guild to do gorse, sab, w4, ... without 2 healers. Most of the clear of W1-W4 we stick with 1 druid without any issues, but yeah that's just me.

CC : Its "better" if the boss takes 8x procs from sanctuary, which takes 8 (!!!!!) seconds. I don't know how about you, but in my book we're not waiting around 8 seconds to break breakbars. When we're aiming to CC quickly, mesmer is able to do more CC in a shorter time and frankly FB doesn't come close... Unless you're also running stuff like hammer - but then where does your fury come from? Where does your high DPS come from?

The damage is great - as long as you can reliably hit your mantras on the people that need them, whenever their ICD is off, so you can go mostly into burn. Not that easy on a boss like matthias or even sloth with pugs. And if your group is perfectly stacked - why are you running double healer again?

I like sword a lot on some bosses, but if you are gimped to sword to obtain fury then you're NOT playing the DPS firebrand build. Are you playing the DPS renegade build with 100% alac then? On top of that, you're also NOT running any long range pulls, which means sloth and xera become drastically more difficult. On sama and SH you're not playing with extra push / CC from hammer.

You still won't have the boonspread of chaos chrono / druid. You still won't have spotter, GoE, the same amount of CC during the same time. You do have better aegis share, stab share, condi cleanse and healing.

Name bosses where you run your comp and it works out well. Give me logs. I've played heal fb on quite a few bosses; overall I don't see things work out as well in practise as you say they do. The bosses on which you need extra healing are exactly the ones on which you do not want to rely on fb / rev for your buffs. In most cases 2x chrono 1 druid 1 fb (heal) and ignoring "extra dps" OR 2 chrono 1 druid 1 rev (heal) ends up with better results than trying to replace a chrono.