Supreme.3164

It was definitely a welcome change of opinion from convention about Infinite Horizon, most mesmers I believe want to keep that trait while regain the 2nd dodge and just nerf Ambush skills on the staff but as you correctly pointed out that trait just cheapen the whole class making it much more accesssible for better or for worst. Although I cannot in good conscience suggest to remove IH when all other professions have similar cheapening traits/mechanics that make the respective class easier to play and such I tend to agree with other mesmers in reintegrating the second dodge and just nerf instead the ambush skills on staff and scepter or axe I can't remember now All in all, you made me remember why I used to frown in my chair at the sight of a power mesmer...scary sight indeed, well played

Really Mesmer beats guardian and ranger is 50/50 based as you correctly states on personal skill level, if the ranger isn't using MM or warhorn , he will have a hard time getting through the block rotations of a guardian who knows what he's doing, plus a glass cannon build user will have less condi cleanse than a bruiser build and overall Spear of Justice can make life miserable for unprepared rangers as it removes one of their main tools to survive : Stealth...against mesmer it's not the same as they have multiple sources of stealth with shorter CD and can more easily disengage from SJ range thx to Blink and Jaunt, also SJ won't go through Distortion as it's not a block Then mesmer can use clones to trigger traps and stealth repositioning to tire out any guardian spec, really only pre-nerf FB had a solid chance against well played mesmers, in the end for me only engi is a match up in my favour; mesmer is an unfavourable matchup and the rest is 50/50

Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : 1) Dolyak stance2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 103) Regen traits having longer base duration For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and grenade holo especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement. But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it Then why create the thread in the first place? The other classes need bringing down too, you'd know this if you've seen what the small groups are like at the moment. @apharma.3741 said: Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : 1) Dolyak stance2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 103) Regen traits having longer base duration For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and grenade holo especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement. But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it Then why create the thread in the first place? The other classes need bringing down too, you'd know this if you've seen what the small groups are like at the moment. Because I believe that even with unnerfed values , the ranger class would still not see major play in PvP , we removed boonbeast- bird tank -bunker druid and sic'em burst and that's great! So why go and double tap on the only useful stance soulbeast has left? Even with a 40s CD dolyak stance there would be no boonbeast , no bunker ..nothing of what happened in the past but at the very least the spec would be more useful for general PvP outside the +1 glass meme The main reason to use soulbeast is to gain access to an additional source of stability which the class severely lacks, if you want you can go and remove the dmg/condi reduction effects it wouldn't matter ...the stability is the main thing. And lastly Druid : why the double CD on the main mechanic of the entire spec? Necros don't get a 20s CD to access reaper and desert shroud - tempest don't have to wait 30s to overload...so the druid change really makes no sense, you can go and change the actual traits that make druid strong, reduce their duration/effect in PvP..but allow rangers to access the druid mechanic with the same 10s CD across all game modes Finally yeah, I know the composition of "roaming" gank team and applying the same changes we have in PvP, would not change that I am afraid Almost non of this has anything to do with the price of chips. Continuity between game modes is what I was saying. Regardless of the state of (in) balance, do you agree?Continuity between game modes ofc makes sense on its own but..you must consider all the gear choices players have access to in WvW compared to PvP, you simply cannot touch that, how could you? If you want to go and balance wvw like pvp, you can do so with professions but the gear choices will still make up for great part of the "imbalance" which is anyway the main attraction of the game mode You can't just remove gear and refund people, who spent thousand and thousand of gold throughout the years since launch but we can still have that "continuity" if Anet stops applying drastic changes between game modes, anything in the realm of 20-30% would be acceptable and logical.....50-60% difference is simply overkill and completely changes the way a class/spec is played

It would be great if all professions had zerg ready builds, sadly ranger and thief don't have the luxury...that's why they focus so much on "roaming" which has you correctly explained...makes little sense in the grand scheme of things

Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : 1) Dolyak stance2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 103) Regen traits having longer base duration For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and grenade holo especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement. But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it Then why create the thread in the first place? The other classes need bringing down too, you'd know this if you've seen what the small groups are like at the moment. @apharma.3741 said: Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : 1) Dolyak stance2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 103) Regen traits having longer base duration For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and grenade holo especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement. But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it Then why create the thread in the first place? The other classes need bringing down too, you'd know this if you've seen what the small groups are like at the moment.Because I believe that even with unnerfed values , the ranger class would still not see major play in PvP , we removed boonbeast- bird tank -bunker druid and sic'em burst and that's great! So why go and double tap on the only useful stance soulbeast has left? Even with a 40s CD dolyak stance there would be no boonbeast , no bunker ..nothing of what happened in the past but at the very least the spec would be more useful for general PvP outside the +1 glass meme The main reason to use soulbeast is to gain access to an additional source of stability which the class severely lacks, if you want you can go and remove the dmg/condi reduction effects it wouldn't matter ...the stability is the main thing. And lastly Druid : why the double CD on the main mechanic of the entire spec? Necros don't get a 20s CD to access reaper and desert shroud - tempest don't have to wait 30s to overload...so the druid change really makes no sense, you can go and change the actual traits that make druid strong, reduce their duration/effect in PvP..but allow rangers to access the druid mechanic with the same 10s CD across all game modes Finally yeah, I know the composition of "roaming" gank team and applying the same changes we have in PvP, would not change that I am afraid

You are right, it could be that bad, that's another very questionable change from Anet when many mesmers had already pointed out the issue with condi mirage....I just don't get them, they have this practice of nerfing everything around the real issue which ends up destroying the basic design concept of the spec/class -Like how they nerfed Druid repeatedly instead than remove Ancient seed or how they removed the unblockable from Soulbeast instead than lowering/removing Dmg modifiers and Sic'em, nerfing pet dmg instead than transfer part of it to ranger itself and turn pets into utility rather than first nerf pet dmg....then the ranger dmg

Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : 1) Dolyak stance2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 103) Regen traits having longer base duration For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and grenade holo especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger Yes and it should be the same for all. You and I are in agreement.But that would not change anything in the grand scheme of things in the end anyway if you think about it

as Wvw main, full agree. less broken fast dmg pew pew combined with crazy running abilities would be nice. i mainly play largescale and ranger and theif in Wvw are FAR too attractive, it kind harms the largescale format, because sometime 30 ppl rather roam around during primetime instead of grouping up and playing proper builds and classes (which ranger/thief, in Wvw, are not.) @"CutesySylveon.8290" well, but especially this "pure dmg" comming from the ascended armor + infusion availability peaks damage in wvw more. and ranger has mobility and quick dmg, despite man things got their damage partly stripped or fully nerfed way harder. for example, it was a mistake to nerf firebrand damage equally as others. it was a mistake to nerf herald hammer 5, bc its a very slow cc with obvious animation. people acting as if Wvw and spvp are even remotely the same things are just misunderstanding much of how either format works, i guess. i'm not spvp pro or sth, only grabbed a metabuild and played to gold rank in the last three weeks, since matchups make Wvw partially dead (thanks for no alliances, dear anet), therefore i cannot 100% speak wisdom in concerns of spvp balancing, but i think it's overall still similarily playable than it was before. Wvw changed towards some classes beeing unable to kill anything now. meta wasn't balanced, not top tier uses been balanced there. but Wvw and balance do not suit anyways. it's not safe space pvp. you have a ton of factors, also food, allies, keep buffs, sheer experience (theres not only plat VS plat, gold VS gold, silver VS silver etc playing... every rank runs around in Wvw. and unlike spvp divisions, wvw ranks tells u not a lot. old players can be more casual but having higher old meta farmed ranks kinda. others are based pros. hard to to classifiy by just this. servertiers are worthless in wvw as well, tells u nothing therefore. I see no reason to keep up this narrative of ranger and thief in WvW as is roaming means anything in the gamemode, all you do is build as glass cannon and "gank" people while they're using zerg builds but...the moment the zerg professions build for "roaming", ranger and thief become completely worthless.

Really the only things that WvW ranger has over PvP ranger are : 1) Dolyak stance2) Celestial form CD from 20 down to 103) Regen traits having longer base duration For the rest it's basically the same as in PvP, the pets and dmg have been nerfed universally for the class and therefore if you'd change the last things this class has in WvW, same should happen to everybody else like : condi herald , necro and grenade holo especially that still enjoy unnerfed values like ranger

I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team.as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined.Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play.ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg. Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...(...) Apart from mATs, where it struggles in coordinated bursts, and apart from druid: Core ranger is played incredibly often in high plat. Druids too, some soulbeasts with memes as well. No idea where you got your numbers. I will take statistics for a few days and post them here. I never considered ranked as any indication of balance and class distribution, I repeat that ranger is a low skill ceiling class that will do good at average and below skill level and nobody ever said that Platinum is free from average and below skill level.(...) What do you mean here? There is plenty of ranger players in Top100. It suffers in coordinated team games - not talking about druid -, but it needs no buffs. Adjustments, maybe. In simpler terms : Ranger is a noob stomper class since when plat 2 + are noobs? aka new players ?It's common to have builds of different effort requirements and reward output so it's impossible to state that every single player in platinum was able to break the wall of mediocrity from Gold. The words : noob stomper may have been taken out of context and considered now as some sort of offensive moniker for the people who fall to it; then let's me re-phrase my post. Let me start by saying that I never agreed with builds like : boonbeast- extreme sic'em -bunker druid - tanky beastmastery and with this said I can continue . The nerfs this class has received have been heavy handed , as I stated before in this thread already, most nerfs were justified...some other nerfs were completely unnecessary and have crippled the class.

I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team.as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined.Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play.ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg. Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...(...) Apart from mATs, where it struggles in coordinated bursts, and apart from druid: Core ranger is played incredibly often in high plat. Druids too, some soulbeasts with memes as well. No idea where you got your numbers. I will take statistics for a few days and post them here. I never considered ranked as any indication of balance and class distribution, I repeat that ranger is a low skill ceiling class that will do good at average and below skill level and nobody ever said that Platinum is free from average and below skill level.(...) What do you mean here? There is plenty of ranger players in Top100. It suffers in coordinated team games - not talking about druid -, but it needs no buffs. Adjustments, maybe.In simpler terms : Ranger is a noob stomper class

I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team.as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined.Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play.ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg. Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...(...) Apart from mATs, where it struggles in coordinated bursts, and apart from druid: Core ranger is played incredibly often in high plat. Druids too, some soulbeasts with memes as well. No idea where you got your numbers. I will take statistics for a few days and post them here.I never considered ranked as any indication of balance and class distribution, I repeat that ranger is a low skill ceiling class that will do good at average and below skill level and nobody ever said that Platinum is free from average and below skill level. I mostly consider MATS and again I never stated even once that the class was unplayable so I don't know why people act like I did. Also statistics don't work based on the results of a single individual out of thousand others, it is why MAT represents a better source of information....no room for average skill level there am I right?

I'd argue that ranger is truly the only profession I don't see spammed left and right anylonger, I'd say that at best you can reach gold 3 on ranger with good luck on yourside and playing just +1 zerk core hit and run. Not enough sustain for anything else really atm on ranger, they gutted any possibility for a competitive duellist. With all the buffs to mobility, pretty much any class can keep up with a ranger trying to kite away and that was the main source of sustain for ranger with the other being the GS block which has been severely nerfed to uselness, it's the only source of blocking on the class and now the long CD made it that much worst. I really don't see nearly as many rangers as before...actually I see many more eles than rangers now and it's a first, the best PvP build for the class is rated as good for max Gold rank so...I don't think my thread is that wrong I dont know man, when Im on ranger I get 3x to 4x the healing I get usually on mesmer, often even get most healing in team.as for ranger block, its still one of the best if not the best in the entire game. You are just used to old block which was so kitten broken it was better then the best defensive skills of other classes, and in fact it was so kitten OP, it was usually better then 2 to 3 other defensive skills combined.Like yes, ranger is not the hot stuff meta OP like other kitten builds going around but its not bad either. Proj hate going around and bunker healer kitten really hurts the ranger RN but it might change any moment. Well I have said that you can reach gold 3 with the class so yeah...it's playable but definitely not META, in the last couple of months they were like 0 ranger both in NA and EU mats semi and finals that must mean something. And yeah the projectile hate really hurts , I hope next elite will offers a different playstyle my ranger is not even 30 days old and im gold 3 while duo - queueing with another friend that also plays class that he doesnt know how to play.ranger can definitely reach higher ranks, wont be too hard to push past p1/p2in the end it will boil down to meta being bad for ranger, from renegade and guards proj hate, inability to stop support warrior from bannering reliably and getting kitten on by random DH trap and DH in general doing better. Cant cleave or stomp right hurts the ranger, why not play dh, throw a spinny sword and get 20k dmg.Ranger is a low skill ceiling class as such it will do good at average and below skill level. Most nerfs were on point...others were rather questionable and they could have improved other aspects of Soulbeast but refused to do so, something like stance sharing increased to 100%, it would made the spec that much more useful in PvP outside the +1 role ( which can be covered as easily by other specs) The dolyak stance CD nerf was overkill , they could have removed the dmg/condi reduction effect and leave the important stability but right now at 60s CD, it makes it rather bad Finally the CD nerf on druid staff was really unnecessary

A ranger trying to out point cap an ele has really no chance atm, both fire weaver and lr weaver would kill the ranger unless he starts to kite away at which point you become useless as sidenoder as you can't keep the node. Also I like to play tempest from time to time, easier than weaver but still a solid option

Decap druid is basically played on every monthly and daily at winning team right now. But I guess that doesn't count. im fairly sure every ranger would rather decap druid died, kitten. I tried it once and I felt like I died on the inside, after 1 game.Ill take legit any other build over this kitten, its peak of poor gameplay design.It's pretty bad as concept even worst that it relies on a rather important trait for druid: AS , being the only thing making druid worth using outside raids. I suspect Anets refuse to change druid because they fear a comeback for old druid bunker (despite the numerous nerfs it received) They went the wrong way about Druid, they should have focus the support aspect around the pets and not the ranger itself..But too late for any of that, they will probably nerf or remove AS making druid that much worst to use outside raids, at the very least if they remove AS they should un-nerf the CD of celestial form