Roads.5130

Specially if you are unable to formulate an actual argument to begin with.

Dont forget cambridge dictionary, urban dictionary, levelup magazine, wikipedia. But sure, let´s listen to the defintion of what a random gw2 player says it used to mean back in the day. edit: forgot a word.

Working on that reading comprehension would be a great first step to actually have a meaningful participation on this discussion. I never called you childish or simplistic, I called the narrative you were going for childish and simplistic. Let me quote myself to make it more clear. I hope that is enough to clarify: I never insulted you, just your arguments. I already posted like three times a list with different sources with definitions that would neatly fit GW2´s business model. They are simple, general definitions, but they also come from different places, urban dictionary, cambridge dictionary, gaming magazines, even two reddit posts with different participants. They all are the first results from googling "what is pay to win". Try reading a little, then think, then think a little bit more, then come and try to make an actual argument, maybe then I will value your participation other than "the confused meme emoji person".

Again, how one wins a game is absolutely unrelated to the term P2W. Pay to win is a term that relates to the monetary practices of a game. The fact that I already said that and you continue trying to go with that childish, simplistic narrative makes it impossible for you to make an actual argument, that's why you don't make them. Sure, me neither.

I don't know why are you so focused on replying to me, you haven't made a single argument and keep coming with these ridiculous, snarky replies. Go, think, elaborate an argument, and stop confuse emoting every reply you don't agree with, maybe then your replies will hold some value.

Have you even read a reply?

No, it is pay to win. It is absolutely not the worst pay to win game, I will even go as far as saying it probably is the least offensive pay to win game, but it still pay to win. Buying legendary weapons on day 1 and infinite amount of gold to solve the remaining problems IS pay to win regardless of if others players feel bad about it or not. I love how people keep bringing inexperience as if experienced players could not see this business model as pay to win, but that is an assumption, a wrong assumption. Even last week I played a mobile game from a franchise that I used to love (Zenonia, for those curious) and it is a ridiculous pay to win scheme, I have played many other online games with such schemes (I purchased BDO on day one, and still there was this person trying to lecture me about BDO). I am not saying GW2 is as offensive as these other games, but I am saying it absolutely employs some P2W models and for any of these oblivious to that clear fact, I think it just shows they are stuck with old definitions that are not very useful in the current environment.

Again, I wholeheartedly agree. As I said on several other replies, my participation on this thread started by replying to a person who was complaining that the game had become P2W thanks to this new addition of HPs on the cash store. What I said and how I said it was specifically directed to that person, but all these other people keep coming and I am more than happy to keep elaborating for the time being, even if it goes nowhere.

I am the one who is explaining what actually means only to get snarky replies from some of you.

No, focusing on such nonsense is what makes this discussion moot, I already explained to you why I called them kids.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Ironically, sticking to archaic definitions to deal with current issues is precisely why the older players can no longer experience what pay to win truly means in the current environment.

I call them kids because those poor souls can not distinguish a bad feature in a game from a bad game, apparently. Whatever definition they use is completely irrelevant to call them kids or not. I can assure you not. Please don't, I don't care, it is completely irrelevant how the old times were. How your great great uncle used to play videogames is completely irrelevant to what the current business model behind most games currently is. Yeah, as I said on another reply, everything changes, words, games, bussiness models, it is not a matter of if we like or not but if we accept it or we delude ourselves

You forgot the /s. Let's not also forget that this is not about how people feel about pay to win, I don't care if it has a stigma attached to it, if a game has pay to win practices then it can be called pay to win. I don't know how it was, and I really don't care, but it certainly is pay to win now. Yeah I agree, free to play content is a huge demo, then you have to actually purchase the game, then you have to purchase each expansion, then can also purchase enough gold to max out your weapons on day one.

Who said I don't have any experience to back it up? Also I don't need to answer your question for my premise to be true, it is so true that I already gave you an unaltered list of people from a simple google search whose definition would agree with my premise in general terms, but since you decided to ignore it together with many other issues I already pointed about your whole argument I am not surprised you rather just go all "you are wrong and I can't hear you".

That is a fallacy, because the fact that it includes all MMORPGs that we have thought of does not mean it includes every possible MMO, and that means that my definition still holds value. It's not better than numbers if it is a fallacy to begin with. I literally quoted them. They are the first results from THIS GOOGLE SEARCH, what do you mean I can't define them? What do you expect me to do?

No, I'm gonna call it how I see it. The fact that the game has some issues does not equal it being a bad game, and if that confuses people then so be it.

So you give me actually zero numbers to back up your definition other than "back in the day" and then you for some reason pretend I have "no numbers" even after I clearly gav you a small list of different sources using a similar definition to the one I am using AND THEN call mine a small hill to die on? 🤣

What question? I honestly don't even know anymore lol.

I am defending that even though GW2 has clear pay to win practices it is still in my opinion one of the games with the best monetization models I have ever played, and that if a person is so absolutely flabbergasted from the introduction of HPs on the cash shop that they will immediately leave the game, they would be making a mistake because of how little relevance those pay to win issues have in such a great game.

I don't even know what question you are referring to. I can't think of a game that is not pay to win, I haven't played a lot of games in the recent 10 or so years. So I will say it again, for like the tenth time: I don't think the term matters in the case of GW2, I am not the one complaining about the game being pay to win but I am the one saying it is pay to win according to what many people consider pay to win. I don't know what part of the 15 definitions I listed from google made you think they were MY definition but all I did was list them for you to understand that not many people in general use the same definition you use.

Glad you finally got it.

Nuh uh, not my definition.

You think the term is being misused without ever acknowledging the fact that you may be stuck with an archaic definition for a current issue.

It does not have to be a power advantage all it has to be is an advantage, that is the point. The fact that you don't think that's pay to win isn't really an issue for most of us, heck, the fact that the game gives as many advantages as it does to the players who spend the most is not even an issue for me either as I barely even notice them. It's funny that you say that most people don't, when in reality what I have read about the topic reflects that GW2 would fit neatly under most people's current definition of pay to win. What it was meant to mean does not matter, times change, games change, industries change, business models change, marketing strategies change and words change. I guess to me it is just does not make sense that someone can join the game and swipe their credit card until they have 2 sets of every legendary weapon plus 10,000 gold and then I go about my day thinking "yeah, I can totally get all that in a reasonable amount of time". Does this fact render the game unplayable for the rest of us? Absolutely not. Does that fact make the game P2W under many people's current understanding of the term? Absolutely. Here I will leave a list of the first 15 or so definitions of pay to win from googling "what is pay to win": From google answers, dictionaries, game sites, etc: From the first reddit thread that comes up in the search: From the second reddit thread that comes up: Sorry for the huge wall of text, I skipped two or so comments because more than stating what they thought was pay to win they presented a question or other commentary on the topic, I barely even rearranged the definitions from the order they appeared. As you can see, basically no one mentions expansions or Buy to play models, all that goes out of the window and what most people focuses on to state their definition of pay to win is basically: if real money gives in game advantages = pay to win. You may disagree with those persons, and there may not be a single precise definition that everyone agrees on, but they do seem to have a common trend. I purchased the game when HoT came out, and then a couple of years after PoF came out I was able to purchase it, I haven't been able to buy EoD, SotO or any of the current content, I am absolutely not on equal footing in terms of character capabilities with players who have got the most current expansions even though I "purchased the game" twice now. For what is worth I think GW2 has the best monetization system of any MMO I have played, sadly it still fits under what I perceive to be most people's current definition of pay to win.