Karagee.6830

Which server are you on out of curiosity?

Ah the strawman. I did not plan to do this while tanking, which seems to be over anyway. What kind of people you are on FSP is none of my concern, nobody does that on Gandara. We normally are outnumbered and taking a beating in PPT. Most of the times we are second only because one of the other teams is outnunbering us and the other team so much, that they can decided who to put in second and third place in a skirmish. This is what's happening currently with BB romping through the night and AG owning the morning. Gandara does not have nearly enough people and if we are full 15-20 servers should be full.

Enough to prove to you that we are Full according to Anet and at the same time we are indeed outnumbered every day of the week except 2 nights. Which is circumstantil evidence that Anet is helpless abount calculating participation.

I think Chaba did not understand how the system is supposed to work. Alliances are locked for a period, you can't get more people in once the season starts. Different alliances and people without an alliance are assigned to one team based on some algorythm (insert Toby-Michael Scott meme here) and will be bound until the new season begins. At that time they can play with the alliance of their choosing, provided it has fewer than 500 members. I'm pretty sure the idea is to mix and match alliances as well based on participation patterns. If a team is made of alliances A+B+C and another D+E+F, the following season you may have A+E+G and B+C+D. based on participation patterns both in terms of overall participation and time slots covered. This is what they claimed they were trying to accomplish, so we take it for what it is. Now, if a miracle occurs and the participation stays exactly the same over time, maybe the algorythm will match the same alliances, but my impression is that's not how it's going to work in reality. And of course single players will end up in random teams all the time. In essence you would be limited to groups of 500 friends (and I think community groups on EU servers won't reach that level, that's my impression).

Well, a lot of people will stick together then. Maybe not me, but a lot of people on Gandara planned exactly that and devised ways to form a community alliance. And I'm sure they will stick together, like large groups from other servers that are planning the same thing, even though Alliances will come with their dose of stacking of a different kind (stacking based on skill/hours played etc): it will be like playing a 3v3 basketball competition and instead of limiting and putting boundaries to how the teams are made up to keep things interesting, you allow an NBA superstar to participate while the rest are good amateurs. It will still be better than a 3v1 competition to be sure. We'll see how this pans out, but today is the day of the summer solstice, spring is officially over and nothing has been said or done about Anet's Alliances spring declarations, so it's a fair to assume they are not coming anytime soon and at the very least they are significantly behind Anet's expected development. But you know what? I'm sure some blind believers, these forums seem so full of, will still expect something to be done or said in spring 2022 come August and September

Not really, no. People have said this is how they do it. I say that's just what they claim they do and nobody has proof whether they intentionally or unintentionally do something completely different or slightly different. Lying would imply that they willingly come here after being 100% sure and...intentionally deceive us. I never claimed they did that, I dared them to do that or to tell us something that is the complete opposite of what we can see with our own eyes. I'm gonna take screenshots of home border and EBG with 'outnumbered'. Would that be enough for you? As I said before the 'outnumbered' buff could be applied incorrectly also, but I don't think you'll find any person that would argue that, since everyone has experienced it to be working properly.

Also all of this ^ yes Gandara was open for a week when they meddled with the thresholds and every server was open.

Wow here we go with another that fails to see the whole picture and decided to focus only on one aspect (no link) or another (Full) or another (time scale of the previous 2 issues) when it's the combination of all 3 that makes the situation unbearable and unfair. Can you please give us an example of a server Full and unlinked for 10-12 months? You see, we'd have no problem being on our own, the punching bag as you call it, and locked every other relink, but here we are in this situation every relink, one after another after another, endlessly. You should really talk to people from Gandara. As a matter of fact you will find that we have overwhelming sympathy for any server that has to go through this even for 2 months every year rather than 10-12, because we are always in their situation. Personally, I usually roam in a small party on enemy borderlands and I always try to help the unlinked server in my match, even Desolation and SFR, for this very reason, unless we are fighting for 1st place, in which case we'll do what it's more likely to win us the week. And by that I don't mean just trying to double team the third server with my small group, I mean even contesting their garrison when the other unlinked server is attacking them, to make it harder for defenders. That actually damages my wxp and participation, because I could be flipping camps, towers or keeps in the time I spend to keep the garrison contested. It only gives me personal satisfaction. Sometimes I even build guild siege by myself, so the garrison keeps getting contested when the guards respawn for the benefit of the other unlinked server. That of course means that I have to actually make a run for supplies, for no benefit whatsoever other than sticking two fingers to Anet and their linking lunacy, imagine that, it's how far that goes. So I suggest you check yourself and your assumptions.

Once again comprehension. I said neither you nor them proved in any way that what they said is what they currently do. Stop moving the goalposts and making strawmen. The quote is fine. I believe it should be impossible with the way they claim they select links for Gandara to be full and without link for stints of 10 months. I think this is not even debatable. I went further and explained how we are outnumbered all the time except 2 nights a week and I have explained how there are links with more than double our 'flow' for 2 months (which is pretty accurate since nobody keeps parricipation by repairing walls ever few minutes anymore). This andcdotal evidence is the exact opposite of what you would expect if things were working as Anet said they should Even without checking I assume the discrepancies in the deaths are due to the omnipresent outnumbered buff for some servers. This is irrelevant for the problem at hand anyway, as both thr Api numbers and in-game numbers paint exactly the same picture, no more and no less. Stop looking at miniscule details and start looking at the bigger picture.

Both Elona and DL were on T3 last relink (Elona yo-yoing from T2 and DL more T3/T4) and you both had K+D similar or higher than your opponents. Looking at your numbers to turn into Gandara you'd have needed to get rid of over a third of your team's players (you were comfortably at 65k-70k when Gandara was cruising on 40k-45k K+D). And unfortunately no amount of tinkering with the system is going to make time slots imbalances disappear. If they can make more obvious and gigantic imbalances disappear it would already be a success. I'm honestly curious: do you think like someone from WSR in this thread that you'd be better off without a link (assuming you are on DL and not Elona)? I have to understand this mentality because it's truly, incredibly foreign to me.

Not another cop out and more moaning , please. It seems to be the only thing you do. I was going to look for scores for morning and day during the weekends and throughout the day on weekdays were you see lopsided scores over and over (overall score so ppt from objectives + kills + other things like donkeys, everything). Because I can't use the current match as it would be even more lopsided, I'm struggling to locate data for past matches that is not aggregate. Also a little comprehension of the English language: I never said that Anet lied. I said that they don't interact with their customers, as I would like them to, so they don't have to brazenly lie through their teeth. And yes, them saying Gandara has the highest participation among 27 (26 excluding BB) servers on EU, which is the topic of this thread, would be an outright lie, as others have explained to you here and elsewhere.

Yes imagine that happening to you for a year. Then imagine that you can't recruit people (whether or not they would come is another story, but you do have that option, w don't). Congratulations, you are now Gandara.

I guess I will have to explain through drawings. Just wait, I'm gonna grab my computer and show you in pictures so you can understand just how far from the truth you are.

I proposed that. Lots of people proposed that. Again and again. Also that isn't going to help the situation Gandara is in, I'm sure you understand that. Transfers are a problem for T1 balance, with overstacked servers. We have other issues and since we have a community where people don't just bugger off, we have no transfers in and we can't get stacked through a link, because we have none of those options, your observation about transfers is valid, but will have to go in a different thread as it has nothing to do with Gandara allegedly being the second most populated server on EU after BB.

Servers that accidentally, emphasis on accidentally, get no link, don't play for 2 months because they can't take it. And yet one server (well 2 with BB) is forced to do this almost all the time. Does that seem fair to you? BB is treated differently because it's the only Spanish server, that is correct. That means they can and will make exceptions. Now, why can BB have players coming in but not Gandara, despite being a third larger? It makes no sense. At least open us until we get the same numbers as BB, with those numbers we are going to be without link every time, guaranteed, but at least we wont be half the opponents. Yes people got fed up with having to stay away and still be locked. I'm not going back just yet. So what you see now is what happens usually on Friday and Saturday. Before we get outnumbered every other day of the week as I repeatedly said, despite people continuing to ignore it. As you can see it was short lived as in the next skirmish we're already last (and we were last in ppt when you posted btw). Come back in a week and if everything is back to normal, we'll see how your take aged. The bottom line is there are many ways to fix this, but there is no logical reason to keep the server close and without a link for 10-12 months straight every time. If you don't want to eliminate a tier, then open Gandara and cap us at the same level BB is right now. Mentioning that in the previous system things were as bad or worse for more people (and I disagree but this is beyond what we're discussing here) is asinine. They created this system to balance things out and avoid screwing the same people over and over and yet that's exactly what is happening. Now I'm curious to hear what you think should be done in this situation. Nothing and leave Gandara permanently outnumbered without a link and locked? Is that it?

We shall see, we shall see.

I read it like any normal person would: oh look Gandara has a similar participation on red border as my stacked team. 'The other maps not so much' is also playing down the difference which is massive in every single one of them. Maybe that was not your intention but it's how it reads.

Oh boy. At the times I don't play our score is in the gutter. You really want to check the scores and participation for Gandara, in T5, in the morning and early afternoon? Be my guest. I occasionally have played at those times: we have very few people, so it's not like we have a surge which is dwarfed by an even bigger surge by every other server.

What's the likelyhood that the pairs with 85k K+D are both below 45k? Baruch Bay has 1/3 more players and activity than Gandara and it's not full, so why not treat us the same way? Any logical explanation? I said I'd be ok with being permanently open, like BB, and never having a link, like BB.

You wanna be without link and closed for a year? Hahaha what a brave soul we have here. Get your server to sign a petition to swap with Gandara, I'll have my popcorns ready. You will have 100% support from Gandarans btw.

We. Are. Outnumbered. Every. Day. Of. The . Week. Except. Weekend. Primetime. I don't think you fully understand what having no link for stretches of 10 months and being full during the same period actually means. Just take the worst situation imaginable in NA and multiply it by 2 and then stretch it to 10-12 monrhs instead of 2 months for good measure.

lol you do understand that only 3 servers (of 27) are unlinked right? And that my point is that either those 3 should all be open (like BB always is) or they should rotate? Servers that are unlinked have a physiological drop in population because people can't bear to play outnumbered for 2 months so they either not play or they play on alt accounts. See if you can explain how Desolation went from 40k K+D with no link to 83k with a link in a week. Linked servers have 2x and sometimes more than 2x the K+D than Gandara has (not now, now that we are tanking it's 3.5x+). Now think about it: when 2 servers together have 2x+ the K+D than a single opponent, how can they both mathematically have lower participation than the opponent? Enlighten me. Btw this is no exploiting the system. This is exactly what all the servers that are unlinked do, other than Gandara, because we stick to our server unlike others where people transfer or play on alt accounts. All we ask Anet is: you hate and wanna keep us unlinked forever? Fine, do that, but at least you owe us the courtesy of keeping us open like you do with Baruch Bay.

We can double check how the API works in detail if the information was provided, but since deaths are always higher than kills it makes sense that it's counted as scoring points (ie. 1 kill = 1 point for whichever team kills the player, even though this may not be added if he/she has the outnumbered buff...). So at best you will have 2 kills for 1 death when you have players from all teams involved.

You said the K+D was similar to FSP+GH (my deduction) because you seem to be SM/EBG huggers. It happens when you are vastly outnumbering both opponents: they attack each other and stay away from the leading team home border, even more if that's the desert map. The issue is that you have 2.5x the overall K+D that Gandara has when counting all the maps.

It's Joko's fortress. Move on, nothing to see here, friend.