[Linked with fissure of Woe]

Bottom line is: for people who want to fight, wvw is only worth playing if you can't fight and need to outnumber your opponents to kill them. Those who can really play and want to fight either play pvp or gvg. I guess FoW is home to a bunch of inept players who can't do any better and I say this knowing 90% of my main guild has been on FoW since it was the smallest server on EU...

Edit: in other words I'm saying those who gank in group are inept players who play wvw because they would just get stomped over and over and over in pvp or gvg. There is no way a skilled player would enjoy that kind of gameplay since he could just do the same thing without outnumbering the opponents 2:1 (or more, apparently).

[Is EU the next bandwagon?]

On 5/26/2022 at 9:51 AM, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

NA t4 is actually quite alive [but also a b it underpopulated during offhours], outside of that: its like the EU tiers 2-4 (EU has 5 tiers, last one is mostly empty servers tho so also not a ton of content)

Tier 5 EU servers who get no link are: Baruch Bay 100% of the time (the only spanish speaking server which is never locked by default being the only one for that language, no matter how many people are on it), Gandara 90% of the times, Desolation about 60%, SFR and others another 50%. Gandara, an English speaking server, is always locked (meaning on top of having no link, no transfers in are allowed either) because it's allegedly overpopulated. Obviously ANY server with no link other than BB which has no population limits and is never locked, as mentioned above, ends up in T5 and remains there for the entire duration of the linking period. If you ask me it's a miracle than Gandara (and Desolation to a lesser extent) are not outright deserted at this point as that would be the logical consequence, implementing de facto the same situation as NA with 4 tiers. I guess we are cheap not wanting to pay gems for transfers or simply these are the servers that still have the semblance of a community.

I never ever understood how they can justify keeping servers with no link locked. If people want to avoid queues etc. it stands to reason they would want to go to servers with no link because they are going to be by far the ones with the lowest active population. And in fact queues in WvW on Gandara are very rare even for EBG and home border during late afternoon and evening. At any rate this whole topic doesn't do anything for the unlinked EU servers with no queues, as most of the time (or all the time in Gandara's case) we are locked so guilds wouldn't be able to transfer in even if they wanted to.

[World Linking 10/1/2021]

5 hours ago, CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:

Very funny, since being t1 means nothing anyway these days. 

Winning means a lot to a lot of people and not because of pride but because the way this ill conceived individual reward system works. 

 

Why don't we try and see what happens if you reverse the pip rewards for 1st and 3rd placed teams. It's only 2 pips per tick, let's see how it affects participation on various servers.

[World Linking 10/1/2021]

So let's me get this right: Gandara has had 4 no links in the last 5 team shuffles, but Desolation keeps getting links (except one) and is steadily in T1 mostly by outnumbering other teams?

 

This inspires no confidence whatsoever for alliances: Anet seems completely incapable of analysing data and making sound decisions. If a team spends the whole link period in T1 coming first week in, week out how are you going to argue that they should have any link? Come February, watch these clowns put together 2 hardcore alliances, created for stacking purposes, in the same team just because they generally cover different hours.

 

Why is there any secrecy regarding the numbers that determine these decisions?

[PSA No Down State Week Starting This Friday Reset June 18th]

No downstate in WvW should just be permanent. I just don't care about kitten professions, they can just adapt, but do you know what you can't change? Not being able to kill players because you are outnumbered in the fight or because more enemies suddenly show up and you can't finish them even though you have already beat them.

 

At the very least have no downstate or no rallying in any way other than self abilities (so no ressing by other players in combat either), if you are downed by a player with the outnumbered buff.

[World Linking 5/28/2021]

Quote

There is no reason to reply to people with hysterical conspiracy theories , like playing on alts to let people farm. There was legit players letting pugs farm so that they could tank their match up.

People feeding kills is a different situation. Most of T1 server in the last 2 months (at least each and every one of Dzagonur, Riverside, Far Shiverpeaks and Gandara) all tanked when they were in T1. Some just didn't log in for the week, but I know personally people that fed kills to the 3rd server in order to demote to T2 (eg. people from Dzagonur fed FSP kills to lose skirmishes). But if you switch on your neurons you will understand that a) nobody had any reason to feed Deso/WSR with points from kills (it's not like it decreases your team's score) and b) those people were not blatant afkers in the open map, hanging out in hidden spots with people from the same guild but different servers.

 

Maybe Deso/WSR have raid groups dedicated to escort/kill dollies, who knows. Maybe they get a differential of hundreds of points that way over half an hour. It's more likely than people not farming alt accounts.

[A call out to the people who decide about links in EU for upcomming relink on Friday.]

Quote

all this talk about winning ppt skirmish is just big lol. you gain nothing for that

What gave you the impression I thought otherwise? I just dispute the fact that Desolation people think they were not absurdly stacked when they won 400 skirmishes in a row. Ppt (and score) is largely an indication of participation, if it wasn't enough that a 10 man groups have to deal with 30-40 people blobs on every map, constant 300-60-40 ppt scores will tell you all you need to know.

 

Quote

if you have been against Deso/WSR last matchup and outnumbered, it means not only they but also the other server had way more numbers than yours and the respective map (otherwise you had no outnumbered)

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about here. We had outnumbered on maps with zero presence from the third server. As in: they had 1 camp, maybe a few roamers if any. And this is not the case of a 5 or 10 minute outnumbered where a blob just moves to cap something quickly or to defend, it was hours of consecutive outnumbered on the same map (which is where I spend most of my time: outnumbered maps).

 

Quote

 and would also lose during prime time i suppose? 

Not sure what you are on about, but it must be real good. When every fight you are outnumbered at least 2:1 in prime time and you have no queues on any map, what exactly do you expect genius? That was the situation with Deso/WSR, the participation was so disproportionate every week compared to past T1 matchups that it was lopsided even in the evening. The only times this didn't happen was at reset for a few hours and suprise, suprise, Deso/WSR did in fact end up 3rd (the only couple of 3rd places in 2 months) after reset on WvW bonus week when all the maps were actually full for each T1 server the whole evening.

 

Quote

bc if you'd win any equal fights, they had not won all the skirmishes. so that is a proof it was not only about numbers.

there were almost never any equal fights, you don't seem to grasp this simple fact. The difference in numbers was at every hour of the day and on every map. At the very least Desolation had enough people on borderlands that a) didn't have outnumbered (we can all see the buffs) and b) were enough to hold T3 keeps there until blobs arrived or they filled the map with defenders

 

Quote

no good player cares about ppt enough to make alt accounts just for hourlong-afking around on an "enemy" servers' spawn, seriously. even less likely to "spy".

I agree with this statement, which is probably why you Deso/WSR people do it: lack of 'good players'. The same 40 man blobs hopping the same maps you switch to and the total lack of scouts is in no way an indication of that!

 

Quote

i was on deso till february. we been unlinked twice in half a year there. effectively, then we'd be often enough outnumbered. the server pop for weird reasons never drops below veryhigh on it. yet we ran only with 30-35 people groups there. but deso has a lot alt accounts from other servers' players, or had.

Your whining would perhaps draw some pity or compassion, if you didn't also have Gandara with more unlinked resets than Desolation AND permanently full for years and through all of those periods.

 

Quote

too much cloud and ppt focus mess up the game and balance heavily.

And here is where you go a full 360 and decide that it's in fact a problem and messes up the game and balance lol. Good job.

 

Oh I see: you were the joker who actually wrote that 30 open tag random people (with good builds) can actually bust 50 open tag random people (presumably with equally good builds), lol. Yeah well, puts what you say into perspective. Seems like you are playing a different game than everyone else, where there are 30 man guild teams everywhere going after blobs, when a) those groups are far less common than open tags and b) those groups have no interest in fighting 50 man open tags, because understandably they are more interested in smaller scale gvg

[A call out to the people who decide about links in EU for upcomming relink on Friday.]

I mean, since there is no way to report alt farming, spying etc and since Deso and possibly WSR have shown to be adept at this, I think the only feasible solution here is to make a bunch of FTP accounts on desolation as soon as it opens and then have them permanently logged in on their home bl or ebg. Do as many as your machine is capable of handling, but since I personally know people soloing T4 fractals together with alt accounts it shouldn't be a problem to have at least 4 or 5.

 

It will be interesting to see the moaning when your alts take spots for actual players during prime time, when there is no outnumbered buff although the the numbers are obviously lopsided, not to mention the added bonus from seeing the team and map chats so that you can have your own blobs and zerg move there in a timely fashion. Anyway, since they do this regularly, we all should do the same and then dismiss their 'conspiracy theories'. Gonna start with WSR, which inexplicably has only 'very high' population and is currently open.

[A call out to the people who decide about links in EU for upcomming relink on Friday.]

12 hours ago, Turgon.2091 said:

Well i never said deso/wsr was outnumbered. It was overstacked full of bandwagonner + alt account.

I don't include wsr/deso link as dead server which only plays at prime time, but all the other servers. If they were ticking high is because all the servers that went T1 were dead. Sorry but playing only at prime time = Dead server. And Dzago/fow dodged the matchup same for Fsp / Gandara. Abaddon dead serv, riverside dead serv. (From last relink, maybe things changed now)

When i said "We will always end up with a full server + full link because people want to play during the day as well and not on a dead server which only plays at prime time.  " I speak in general, if it's not deso or wsr it will be another one. We already seen that before.

 

 

A delusional conspiracy theory lol

 

Lol someone has reading comprehension issues or needs to turn on her brain here. The guy I replied to said Deso/WSR were outnumbered in the morning. That was before you poor little delicate flower decided to intervene in that discussion.

 

Yeah kill farming is a delusion just like players jumping inside towers from their mounts repeatedly in front of 40 people. Just because you can't understand things, it doesn't mean they aren't true. This is not opinion but as close to a fact as it can be: 3 people from my server+1 from Desolation, same guild, hiding away. I only discovered them by chance. Only the Desolation guy is moving. I whisper and talk to the people from my server: no reply. The Deso player is just moving around but not attacking me. So sure enough I kill the guy, the other guys from my server say nothing and do not move. 4 minutes later same story. Explain to all of us in your own words why multiple people from the same guild would hide in a place difficult to see on Desolation's borderland quite close to our server spawning point. Try and come up with a reasonable explanation of why multiple completely unresponsive players would just be sitting there hiding and hanging around with zero participation. I have no hard proof because obviously these people are not going to reply ever, but considering what we've seen scoring wise, it's safe to say this behaviour is not isolated among Desolation and WSR players. It's not the first time in the last 2 months I come across this.

[A call out to the people who decide about links in EU for upcomming relink on Friday.]

54 minutes ago, Turgon.2091 said:

We will always end up with a full server + full link because people want to play during the day as well and not on a dead server which only plays at prime time.

What are you on right now? This guy claimed Deso/WSR were outnumbered lol. NO server ever has won that amount of skirmishes in a row no matter how stacked they were. They went 84-0-0 week after week after week after week irrespective of who the opponents were and you defend bs claims from that guy that they were somehow outnumbered despite ticking 250-300 EVERY morning AND keeping pretty much every T3 keep they had on other servers' borderlands, including german servers? It's all laughable really, if not sad, when accounting for the facts and what really happened in the last 2 months.

 

Blaming them for nothing? Are you serious? Consider this for context. One night we are ticking +40 over Deso/WSR as we flipped a few T3 keeps including their T3 sm castle. In the next 20 minutes we annihilate a large Deso/WSR blob 3 or 4 times and keep the ppt advantage around +40. Despite the ppt advantage and despite all the points from the kills we end up -200 points over those 20 minutes. Only when you understand these people are farming alts and when you got a queue against them is because they have alts on your server that they use to farm kills, not because of real participation on your side, only then it makes sense. And it's not like I haven't seen a few times the groups of people from the same guild, but different servers hanging out in quiet areas in WvW. It's very unfortunate that the report system for this kind of behaviour is simply not there.

 

Apart from the bs claims and despicable behaviour from people on these 2 servers (Deso and WSR),  it's mind boggling they both got a link. Given their WvW participation, both Deso and WSR should have been locked and with no link at last reset.

[A call out to the people who decide about links in EU for upcomming relink on Friday.]

14 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

@KrHome.1920 your point is just invalid, since u see ppt as the winning factor, if i understood this correctly.

 

and yeah, its kinda not new that less players with good comp can destroy more players with random stuff.

 

and the thing dawdler described works not only for smallscale, also 30 can mess up 50... mainly depending on builds and experience of players. a fully 70 zoneblob of rookies would get annihilated by 30 elite players with a good comp basically. like, you push fast, set a big bomb inside them, and the panic and either just die in the bomb ur just run instead of dropping any dmg on you.

 

numbers can get even quite fast, if one group has just a better pacing and close quarter movement. that's how small zergs destroy blobs, happens also every day.  people who act as if numbers always and only count, are just not familiar enough with the format they critizise

This is fool's gold. The only people who can bust blobs are guilds. The majority of medium to large groups in WvW are not guild zergs actively looking for loot bags, they are open tags. So if a 30 man open tag meets a 50 man open tag they are not going to win any fight. Guild blob busters are the exception not the norm.

 

Now if the 30 man group had some kind of bonus from the Outnumbered buff (as in no downed state for the opponents OR at least some stat buff) then I'd agree things would be generally more balanced. And btw, just to be clear, we've had outnumbered in groups of 30+ fighting Deso/WSR.

[A call out to the people who decide about links in EU for upcomming relink on Friday.]

9 hours ago, Deniara Devious.3948 said:

Desolation numbers get greatly exaggerated in threads like this. It is mostly a matter of which times you are playing.

Night time coverage matter the most for points per tick as there is least amount of players present. Desolation has a good coverage already long time ago and most our players care about points per tick, thus the play style, which should not punished.

German tier1 servers generally come with a early morning zerg 25-35 and pvds pretty much everything.  We literally have about 4 defenders vs 25+ enemies. This can lead to outnumbered "buff" for Desolation at EBG and home borderlands at same time. I can imagine at night time the enemy servers are facing the same.

I have said this many times: There simply isn't enough players for 5 tiers in EU. Desolation is rank #1 and we have basically 1 queue to 1 map in prime time and no queues at other times during weekdays. It means that even for tier1 if the number of players would increase, there would still be open maps.

Some servers should be merged or least give us just 4 tiers. Then all the servers can have a link and some will have 2.

Ayna
Desolation since 2012-
 

Enough with this bs. Desolation has won EVERY morning skirmish for nearly 2 months. The only 4-ish skirmishes you came second in during last relink were all at prime-time (evening, early night) after reset or weekend, because when all maps are full and you don't start from a 200 tick advantage with waypoints everywhere, you can lose despite farming alts and creating queues for opponent servers (to farm your alts).

[A call out to the people who decide about links in EU for upcomming relink on Friday.]

On 5/30/2021 at 1:28 PM, KrHome.1920 said:

 

I say:

The game has never been in a state where the numbers are balanced enough that skill starts to matter.

 

Experiment:

Our server was linked to drakkar and is now linked to WSR. While we lost each balanced encounter against dzago with the drakkar link last week, we are wiping the floor with them this week even outnumbered. That's a massive difference. We have no queues except EBG. If we win this week, then skill matters more than numbers at least to some extent and you have been proven right.

WSR are trash skill-wise. You probably only win now because you greatly outnumber them, while last week you got farmed because numbers were closer.

[A call out to the people who decide about links in EU for upcomming relink on Friday.]

On 5/27/2021 at 7:52 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

I dunno about EU situation, so I won't comment deeply on that, I just think the language barrier holds back some servers from being linked, especially if a super link will be created, which had happened a few times on NA with BG getting links when they probably shouldn't have.

That must be why they linked English and French/German speaking servers for a long time with NO issue whatsoever. In EU we had a situation with the main server AND its linked server both outnumbering other servers on their own for long stretches of the day in T1. Both of these 2 servers have been given another link (ironically, one has now a French link and the other a German link) and they still outnumber others in their current matchups.

[World Linking 5/28/2021]

On 5/30/2021 at 2:49 AM, CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:

 

It's not like Desolation, didn't go through bad times due to this linking system for the past 4 years, especially last year when we got went from having stacked links, to no link, dead links and a mass exodus of guilds. We are constantly losing players and guilds to our other links or other servers, because they think the grass was greener with this current Linking system.

 

They were also regulars on Teamspeak or Discord , not the pugs who are spawn camping and ppt ktraining maps like the last link. Some of us tried to ask them to stop doing it, but Anet dropped us both to High population for even more bandwagoners to move, especially before the WXP event.

 

It was also a problem, when the other servers were trying to tank out of T1 deliberately like FSP, because of the WSR factor, after the last relink, but even then the transfers you saw on Gw2mists, mostly went inactive a couple of weeks after the link.

 

Deso and WSR was overstacked thanks to system and fairweathers,, but so many other T1 EU servers and matchups have ended up the same and you see the same results, everytime there is a relink. It's not fun for anyone, unless you get a perfectly balanced links, which is rare with the spread of the population of different players and Guilds.

a) You don't get to complain after inflicting yourselves onto everyone else for 2 months

b) it has never happened that a server won 400 skirmishes in a row and up to the WvW bonus week they had 6 or less second places. Some of you jokers even had the audacity to say here above that you were outnumbered in the morning when you haven't come 2nd or 3rd in a morning skirmish for nearly the whole 2 months straight. The few 2nd places you had were all evening skirmishes after resets and you came second in a couple of morning skirmishes to AM at the end of the link period

b) Maybe you also want to apologise for your people farming alt accounts in WvW (not surprisingly, they were not or not only from WSR, but from Desolation, because I have also seen people this week doing it: you guys are so brazen or dumb that your alt accounts are also in your own guilds...kudos)

c) It wasn't just FSP tanking: several other servers, Gandara+FR tanked ON PURPOSE to get out of that shitshow before AND after the WvW event, guilds didn't log on purpose and most people stayed away from WvW. Yet, somehow the 2 servers that didn't tank and outnumbered everyone else at every hour of the day by a country mile both got a link and the tanking ones didn't. But please, do cry us a river how bad things are for you lot

[World Linking 5/28/2021]

Desolation having a link after for 2 months in T1 where they won EVERY skirmish except 8-10 is taking a dump on every other server, especially Gandara that is PERMANENTLY locked and at one point it was the only locked server in the EU area. Of course since neither Desolation nor WSR have people who are actually good at pvp, they did come in 3rd at the beginning of the bonus week when every server filled every map.  The people on Deso/WSR clearly farm their own alt accounts on opponents' servers (ie. they gained 200 points in 15-20 minutes in a skirmish despite trailing by 40 in PPT the whole time AND getting a 40 man PPT train farmed multiple times) and they vastly outnumbered anyone else by a country mile in EU WvW for 2 months. The weeks they've gone 84-0-0 are more than the ones they got 1 or 2 second places (except for bonus week as mentioned). They pretty much had PPT trains in every map throughout the day, they FARMED spawning areas in T1 against weaker servers and yet they got another link.

 

A normal company would have locked both WSR and Deso AND left them without link considering each of them were probably outnumbering the opponents on their own. Of course, since all the EU bandwagoners were there that's not an economically smart decision because of transfers. On the other hand by the same standards, the fact that the 2 servers with no link (Gandara and SFR, BB is an exception being the only spanish speaking server) are locked is an economically idiotic decision, which is incomprehensible. No locked server should ever be without link. Gandara in particular has been permanently locked forever and it's the 2nd time in 3 relinks they get no link.

[World Linking 1/29/2021]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@MoonT.6845 said:Happens to every server you deny a link to.

Incorrect factually.

Not wanting to play is one thing.

Claiming that it happens to every unlinked server is factually inaccurate.

Looks like SFR is also boycotting just like Gandara. Baruch Bay are just the weirdest server, since they have a disproportionately high night participation and control the game for 8 hours at night when they significantly outnumber everyone and can just easily push whoever is winning into 3rd.