Jumpin Lumpix.6108

oh right you try to join a speed clear or a CM group with Half stats lol. i mean i guess youre playing "your way" then. ANd also good luck joining any of those without + stat infusions so YES it is exclusionary and at higher levels of speed clearing good luck joining without fractal god lol.

that i agreee that infusions arent necessary uh yah you're right nothing in the game is necessary to "play" the game however you define it. that wasnt the point of my thread, the thread is why is this disproportionately more expensive than other infusions that do the same exact thing.

yah well nothing in the game is needed you can take off half your armor and play with half stats and probably win and then exclaim the same thing. I dont see the point of that. Wanting to min/max your character is a normal thing in an mmo which i guess you dont do lol, especially if you play competitively as in speed clears or you just want to be a normal veteran and get through the content as fast as possible. Saying its not needed is a joke argument. I mean you could play blindfolded and say eyes arent needed to play. Maybe thats the true way of doing lol. these arguments from you are absurd

.the p2w is in the form 1250g to max out a character whereas wvw is 0 gold. or if going by effort which is not pay to win, months of CM's vs pressing 1 in a zerg and doing dailies. Its not hard to see the disparity.

a different reward structure lol that has nothing to do with anything? yah wvw gives you legendary armor and fractals gives you nothing so the cheaper ones are actually more rewarding and easier to get? i cant explain that lol. So no reason why less rewards from (fractals) costs more to max out a character than wvw which gives you more. i cant answer that. Youd think you'd want cheaper infusions to min/max alt characters and other builds but I GUESS NOT.

no im hoping they make them equally difficult to obtain as wvw infusions, why is that so much to ask? unless thats how you define "giving them away" but honestly if it was up to me, id get rid of + stat infusions anyways since its just power creep, and if you are going to have them they should 1 be easy to get and 2 should all have generally the same amount of time/gold investment to acquire between game modes.

oh great logic, lol you dont need them. well technically you can play teh game naked with no armor on, somehow that doesn't nullify my argument lol i mean why not go do that. Yah good luck to you with this absurd logic.

oh but wait you can use wvw infusions in strikes and raids and all of pve including dungeons, those modes are all "cooperative" (whatever your made up terms mean dont you mean PVE?) so whats the logic behind fractals? WHy are they different from raids or strikes, OH THATSS RIGHT THEYRE NOT LOL SO THERE GOES YOUR LOGIC' IF you actually watched dev streams especially ones from years ago you'd see the characters they balance content around have max stats. THis is true in wvw, spvp, and all pve content but i guess you dont watch twitch. Me being greedy lol, u just want to promote elitism and pay 2 win and you want vertical progression in an horizontal progression game.

really explain then why wvw +stat infusions cost no gold and can be obtained with minimal effort in a matter of days to gear out an entire character, while fractal infusions cost 1250g to buy just to gear one character or requires weeks if not months of running ONLY CM's to get enough integrated fractal matrix (since you cant get them from regular fractals and yet you can get wvw infusions by tagging people in a zerg by pressing 1) to gear out one character. Explain why that is the way that is with a game whose core value is horizontal progression. ANd WHY it should not be balanced to be roughly the same amount of time/gold investment that it takes to make wvw infusions.

oh so your saying i should pay for max stats which are reasonably acquired in all other game modes, but is exorbitant in fractals and you want me to pay which equates to pay to win just to receive max stats in a horizontal progression game lol. right..... great logic. like i said whats next, $100 gemstore item that ups your damage in fractals by 5%? Sounds great. Oh and your saying just get them ok,, yah youre right i could get them but unfortunately thats not the point of the thread so let me spell it out for you, they cost too much compared to other infusions for other content that do the same thing. Its just that simple. they should lower the cost, then everyone can just "get them" like they do already, in every other game mode except for fractals, where theyre too expensive for some mysterious reason that nobody can figure out. if you want hard to obtain better stats/gear why not go play wow or ffxiv, seems like that would be more the game for you if you enjoy defending difficult to acquire vertical progression in an mmo or perhapse black desert online where they have numerous pay 2 win features.

legendary armor doesnt mean anything because its the same as ascended lol. it does nothing that ascended doesnt do, its just a skin and it allows you to conveniently swap stats and get sigils/infusions out. why are you acting like legendaries have anything to do with anything lol. And your acting like an argument against my stat infusions being needed is pointless due to balance issues with builds and skill lmao WOW uh ok, how they balance skills and traits is a completely different subject, however STATS, there are only so many allocated via armor, trinkets, weapons and its always the same number. Whatever build you run its always the same total max stats on every character as it comes from your gear(if you;re wearing max full ascended, infusions, sigils, runes) . Its kinda like paper rock scissors, you want more precision well thats going to eat into your power, want more healing power well then you get less concentration etc. the idea is that these homogenized stats on armor/weapons/infusions make it easier to balance things like builds/traits/skills. As such getting max stats from infusions is another reason it is imperative that those stats that come from armor/infusions/weapons are easy to get so that everyone is on the same playing field, and you dont have to worry that other players are stronger than you because they paid money or played the game longer. Pretty critical concept for a horizontal progression game. SO when a buiild gives you 180 precision or power in the traits, we assume they are balancing it around a character that has MAX STATS from armor/infusions/runes etc. ANd we know that they do this from watching dev test streams why they show their character at maximum stats possible. And if max stats are hard to get for normal players like in the case of AGONY INFUSIONS with + stats, it makes for an unfair playing field and it makes balancing even more difficult and it makes testing those builds unrealistic as the majority of the player base has trouble getting those stats or cant get them.

that was after everyone was done with passive aggressive insults towards me, yes im aware new builds introduce power creep i dont see how thats relevant, its a totally different subject, this is about infusions and stats. And how its disproportionally too expensive to max out a players stats compared to other game modes, which penalizes new players, or even veteran players who want to just simply play at maximum power and change their build/stats. you will never convince me that im wrong in my point of view on this, as ive played guild wars since gw1 launch i know what the company is trying to do and i know how the game is supposed to be played and frankly ascended armor and infusions were a mistake which is why you see them undoing a lot of this stuff and giving stuff like ascended armor out for free. and yes astral acclaim is basically free lol, its freaking dailies.... and as such theyre making ascended armor/weapons more easily accessable which is what they should be doing with +stat agony infusions as well, as they already have done with WVW infusions which are completely easy to get but ARENT USEABLE IN FRACTALS. yah but i dont care about legendary gear because its just a more convenient version of ascended gear. no im not commenting on builds or build changes or power creep through new builds or weapons. THey need to make it so MAX stats in fractals is inline with getting MAX stats in other game modes, and make it cheap and accessible SO EVERYONE, especially new players are on an even playing field. and so its CHEAPER and easier to gear out for other builds so that build diversity is promoted. THAT is a core value of this game, especially since it is a horizontal progression game. promoting ease of accesses for maximum stats promotes build diversity, there's lots of times i wont even bother playing a new spec if i cant fully max the stats out for it. Lots of other serious players min/max especially coming from raiding games like ffxiv and wow, so the idea of doing things without max stats because they are so cost/time prohibited hurts the game. Its also not needed, as you said its such a small amount, well then it should be no problem making it cheap to get it since its such a small amount, ridiculous that actual power creep is withheld due to cost or veteran status. Or that power creep is given in the form of fractal god to veterans, i mean whats next pay $100 and you can do 5% more damage in fractals? maybe they should just do that, im sure people would pay for it.

youre kidding right, players on here have been beyond insulting to me so dont give me that lol. What benefits - it keeps the game more accessable to new players (they can achieve what veterans have easier) a theme guild wars keeps reinforcing with more trivial things like giving out gen 1 legendary weapons in the daily, which translates to a skin and a convenience item, you would think they would do it immediately with things associated with power creep and stats like + stat infusions Keeps content like fractals in line price wise with other content such as wvw, and as such pve/raids/strikes all of which use the wvw infusions since they are the cheapest way to get + stats. SO there is no reason why fractal infusions are not in the exact same boat, as its just another type of content, no different from pve, or raids or strikes or even pvp and wvw. No reason why fractals for NO REASON have infusions that cost 10-20x more than all the other content. Granting veteran players HIGHER STATS - promotes more exclusion - IE you dont do much DPS, sure you can argue its a trivial amount but players who are new need all the help they can get. Its completely against the philosophy of the game, horizontal progression. Ascended armor was the beginning i thought it was terrible, they are now giving it away for free with dailies, obviously they think its terrible too, so now ascended is the new exotic. Power creep in the form of better stats has no place in this game, its literally one of the marketing schemes that sells this game to new players, and they've broken it, especially when extra stats (like + stat infusions) COST AN ABSURD amount to obtain compared to every other content in the game which uses similar + stat infusions, just to gear out one character, and then you have to do it all over again, to run a different build on the same character or use it on another character.

not true you dont need verticle progression at all to make a game work gw1 proved that, had basically no power creep. So i dunno why you say things like its guaranteed to be doomed lol. I play for treasure and rewards and titles and skins. So i could care if my character got stronger. If i wanted that id play ffxiv or wow which does that wayyyyyyyy better (and i have, extensively). I agree with you on legendary gear and the convenience of it. I like convenience rewards or cosemtic rewards and working towards them, but i think power creep in any form is short sided for this game. Especially giving it to vet players (while it makes sense) it just makes them even more exclusionary to new players cuz "oh not only are you bad cuz you're new, but you dont have the max stats like we do cuz we grinded for the thing that gives max stats 10 years ago, ect and your dps/healing is terrible - kick." which you already see with the attitude of players wanting - "show xyz title or kick" which shows they already only want vet players, and in the speedrunning community - "fractal god, or cant join"

I like how your entire thing is to nitpick meaning and quote things piece by piece, and yet the point of the thread is that they're too expensive compared to other infusions that do the same thing for other game modes. Thats it, u dont need to pick it apart its very simple. Also it does it make it harder to do well, its less stats, so while you can say hey its not needed, it DOES make you do less well, its a fact. You dps/heal less. I was against ascended gear and + stat infusions from the beginning in 2013 I think its shortsided to put little dribs and drabs of power creep in a game with horizontal progression. GW1 never really did this, and i dont think gw2 should either. Obviously anet agrees since they're now giving out ascended gear basically for free in the astral vault, so i guess ascended is the new exotic, an attempt to fix the mistake that is ascended gear. SO what are you going to argue now, how MUCH harder it makes it without them lol? Thats subjective.

the game is based on horizontal progression not verticle. fractal god is a mistake yah dunno why they would associate stats with it its against pretty much everything gw2 stands for. why is there not more stats for god of wvw or pvp? Or one for raids? whoever made that decision was very short sided. More importantly agony infusions with + stats is a convenience issue as well, if you cant afford the + infusions you now have to swap to a full set of wvw infusions to do wvw or raids or strikes or general content. ITS majorly annoying and pointless and absurdly expensive. Whereas fractal god is a just a buff you have and its on in fractals, and yah i dont agree with it its very short sided of anet to implement things like this, especially when there are things like a speedclear community. SO much for newer players getting in on that, way to shoot the game mode in the foot. the fact that they do silly things like give players that have done all fractals a billion times 7% more damage so they can speed through it even faster, just shows that its a treadmill game mode, for mindless casual play, like playing candy crush on a cell phone, so you shoudnt care that they make non-cosmetic agony infusions that just simply max out the stats of your character cheap/easy to get, since they clearly dont take this game mode seriously.

yah my point was never that the content was doable or not, im just trying to max my stats like i do in every other game mode, so it should be fixed. not that hard of a concept. Especially considering that people usually want character and build diversity, and this helps with that. IM sure you could do the content almost naked if you wanted. thats not the point of the thread and you know that.

what does anything i said have to do with fractal god title...

its bad design, they need to make it so that if you have some mechanic you need to do, like teleport to the edge to handle malice, you cannot do any damage to the boss until the mechanic is over or something similar like that. Then balance the fight around that fact so that melee has a chance to do the fight as well. I feel like simply lowering the bosses health is the laziest way to fix this fight, and you're still gonna see groups with mandatory classes/build and all others excluded, which i cant imagine is what they intended.

this game should have almost no vertical progression past hitting lvl 80 and getting ascended gear. there might be a point about adding infusions to that but not the case since wvw infusions are so easy to get - which is the point of my thread, why are fractal infusions so difficult to get. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endgame "Progression-based content Unlike many similar games, Guild Wars 2 lacks a gear treadmill (where new gear sets are added periodically making previous gears obsolete). Instead, the driving philosophy is horizontal progression, in which players can achieve non-numerical bonuses via the Mastery system, cosmetics, or Elite Specializations. This progression can occur on both a character-wide and account-wide level. "

OH ruin the fun? lol oh so getting these items is fun for you? Well how about all those players who had gen 1 legendaries and they gave them out for free basically with dailies and i complained that it was ruining the fun and accomplishments of vet players and now the SAME PEOPLE in here who said it was FINE that that was happening and that it was good for new players and who cares about veteran players, are now upset at the thought that their precious max stat infusions might/should be devalued... WOW lol. EIther way i hope they nerf the cost into the ground for agony infusions and bring them inline with WVW infusions, as its super annoying spending tons of gold or grinding endless CM's just to hit max stats on one character in a horizontal progression based game. ALL it does it make it so i can't optomize builds on different characters, and it makes it less enjoyable and cost prohibited. The argument that they arent needed is ridiculous too, why not just take all your gear off and do fractals that way, when you die we can just say get good, its not needed.

yah right, your ok with this content being absurdly expensive for no reason, gotta cry to the mods, makes sense. lol u should talk to me in game if u want a real conversation. whats embarrassing is you not seeing your absurd logic that youre ok with fractals costing tons of time/gold to simply get max stats on when all other content its a joke. BUt ur not only ok with it/ dont care YOU SUPPORT It, that makes sense. IM SORRY GETTING MAX STATS ON A GAME BASED ON HORIZONTAL PROGRESSION SHOULDN'T COST or TAKE TONS OF TIME. ITS RIDICULOUS and OUTDATED and AGAINST WHAT GW2 STANDS FOR. If i wanted vertical progression or gear grind id play wow or ffxiv, they do it much better.

ive beaten them all, scale 100 and all cm's

I GOT an idea why dont they jack up the price of ascended gear, and make it cost 20x more than every other content but ONLY FOR FRACTALS. You guys can just use some exotic garbage or something and they can make cheap garbage agony infusions that have no stat to go in that. When you invariably complain about it, we can use the rhetoric in here to defend it. YOU DONT NEED IT, its only like maybe 10% boost in damage, iTS not necessary.. ITS PRESTIGOIUS, ITS SOMETHING TO WORK TOWARDS. THE GAME HAS HORIZONTAL PROGRESSION ONLY, EXCEPT FOR FRACTALS WHERE EVERYTHING MAKES NO SENSE AND WE THROW ALL LOGIC OUT, and for some reason we enjoy grinding/paying for higher stats - BUT ONLY IN HERE, IN THIS GAME MODE ONLY. IM sure a change like that would be totally accepted in here, as its the SAME argument.

no nobody take any of you guys seriously since i can tell none of you actually do fractals and youre probably paid by anet and dont want to change the game or do anything that would improve it cuz that costs money. BUt yah pretending that its ok for infusions in fractals to costs tons of time and gold to create when in wvw they are unbelievably cheap and can be applied to all other game modes, just not fractals for some mysterious reason that nobody can justify. Totally makes a ton of sense to have one game mode have the BASIC amenities like MAX stats cost 10x that of other game modes FOR NO REASON, in a game that has 0 VERTICAL PROGRESSION (which is a blatant lie with garbage like this). None of any of your guys logic makes any sense and its completely hypocritical as you take both sides of the argument and interchange them as you see fit, its a joke. Oh its end game its prestigious, oh its useless it barely does anything, well make it cheap then, well no that would de-minimize others efforts. NOBODY has explained WHY THEY'RE SO Disproportionately EXPENSIVE COMPARED TO OTHER INFUSIONS. Thats cuz none of you know why, THERES NO REASON FOR IT. your answers are hilarious like, oh thats what it costs or thats the cost of stabalizing matrixes. NO KIDDING they should be cheaper for WHAT THESE THINGS DO. great argument - you dont need it and need it at the same time. ITs valuable and not valuable at the same time. And when all else fails attack me personally on random made up garbage like, you dont know how to do fractals or you must be poor or you must not know how the game works. what a joke lol.