Obtena.7952
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Posts posted by Obtena.7952
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8 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:
Why are you so concerned about FH being nerfed? You are right, that Anet could interpret us wanting FH baseline (because warrior is just too good with it) as a reason to nerf it but given the state of the profession, they could also make it baseline instead. If they want to improve the profession, it is one of the options.
Why am I concerned about FH being nerfed? Is that a serious question?
I'm concerned about it because I think people are right ... Discipline is too strong a choice of a traitline. I think FH has lots to do with that. I KNOW Anet will nerf strong choices to make other choices a stronger consideration.
Again, the state of the profession has NOT prevented Anet from nerfing things they want to nerf in the past ... don't convince yourself this is some exceptional case.
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4 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:
Except weapon swapping on a low cooldown for faster access to each weapons Burst skill, which the entire class is effectively built around, can be viewed as being a vitally important aspect to Warrior's gameplay. Especially considering Warrior has everything essentially backloaded into their Burst Skills.
Also there are instances of a "Core" class having two defining elements of their Profession Mechanic that they gain benefits from:
Revenant has Legend Swapping and Energy both of which have traits related to them ranging from swapping Legends granting benefits or effects, or spending energy or maintaining upkeep granting benefits and effects.
Mesmer has their Illusions/Phantasms/Clones, with traits relating to generating more of them, gaining effects when generating them or gaining benefits for when they are active, as well as Shatters which also have effects gained from using them as well as modifications to the Shatter skills.
Necromancer, probably the "closest" to Warrior in regards to the Profession Mechanic area (generating a resource in combat to activate something) has Life Force and Shroud. There are traits that relate to generating Life Force, generating more of it and gaining effects from having certain thresholds of Life Force. A limited number, but they are there. Even one that gives passive Life Force generation up to a limited threshold when you're not in Shroud. They also have effects that you gain, quite heavily, from just entering/exiting or using skills in Shroud.
Now if you look at Warrior...the mechanic is basically just Bursts. Everything relates to it. Technically, yes, it is "Adrenaline and Burst skills" but we gain no benefits from building Adrenaline or hitting thresholds with Adrenaline other than "can use Burst skill", the entire mechanic is centered around Burst skills which backloads the entire class into that one mechanic. The only other thing present consistently in the traits on Warrior is weapon swapping; Gain Might on weapon swap, remove conditions on weapon swap, they even reworked an existing trait in Arms, Furious Burst, from triggering on Burst hit to triggering when you swap weapons. At this point "weapon swapping" is a part of the Profession Mechanic so an argument can be made that having a 5 second weapon swap cooldown on Warrior, just by default, could be a part of the Profession Mechanic. That is unless they want to rework Adrenaline to have triggers for effects and other benefits when hitting thresholds, which could be another solution to the issue of Warrior feeling outdated and hamstrung.
Obtena I respect you voicing your opinions, but I vehemently disagree with your consistency in defending ANet when criticisms appear as to how they handle things. It genuinely feels like you think they shouldn't get feedback or heed feedback from the community despite the many instances of them very much needing that feedback and when they listen to it things generally improve. The banner rework tragedy, the initial time gating of the Skyscale on its release, the many reworks to Berserker, the reworks to Mesmer (Mirage finally getting its second dodge back and Mirage Cloak finally won't activate while CC'd needed to happen 6 years ago), the changes to Revenant before HoT even released because of player feedback during its beta testing (they had no weapon swapping), Full Counter no longer triggering burst effects without even hitting anything, additions to WvW that made it difficult/impossible for Mesmers to just perma stealth hide after a keep/garrison was flipped so they could just portal their zerg right back in afterwards, and the list honestly goes on and on. Without player feedback on these fronts, nothing would have been done.
Now I know what your response might be; "well clearly that feedback fell within their vision so that is why they did it" This has nothing to do with that. No one cares about their "vision". They are given metric tons of feedback from players experiencing this game on a daily basis, is all of it the right kind of feedback? No, of course not, but there is plenty of feedback from well informed players who have at this point probably a decades worth of experience on any given class that can provide a wealth of insight, and whenever you roll into these threads with your perspective you essentially tell them to just stop doing so because "its not in ANets vision". You're basically telling people to just not even have the conversation. Thats how it feels, at least.
Sorry about the wall...
Except this isn't feedback ... it's just people not thinking about the consequences of what they are saying. You can explain all the benefits of Fast Hands being baseline all you like. That's not the problem I have. I'm not denying it would be an improvement; I agree with many of the things people say about how FH baseline would impact the class.
My problem is that there ain't no way people are going to sell FH being baseline as a must-have trait in a must-have traitline WITHOUT considering that it could be nerfed for the SAME reason.
You people keep explaining to me things I already know and understand. What's happening is that people are NOT receptive to the idea that they are selling a NERF for FH. They just don't want to hear it. That's completely WEIRD considering how we KNOW Anet isn't adverse to nerfing OP'ed traits ... bur sure, everyone keep saying how OP'ed FH is ...
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3 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:
Well you insist on something that I find that doesn't make sense, you haven't given me any good reason why it is a bad Idea, I have given several why it is good idea.
Good, because it's not my goal to convince you that FH baseline is a bad idea; it's irrelevant what I think is a good idea or not. What I am concerned about here is that people are making justifications for FH being baseline that are the SAME justifications to nerf it.
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11 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:
The problem is that you argue for the sake of winning an argument and also refusing to acknowledge that I fact checked your point that there isn't precedent of Anet baselining stuff.
There isn't point for me in trying to convince you of anything since you will just move the goal post or just circle back to hypothetical pointless event.My argument is that FS makes warrior play way more fun, the point of a game is to have fun, so Anet should make the game more fun, I don't care if they nerf/buff or whatever they as long as I have fun with it.
Except there shouldn't BE an argument, so it's nonsense for people to argue with me in the first place. If people are going to say FH is OP so it should be baseline, then nerfing it IS also a possibility there and they should stop pretending it's not.
I mean, if the goal is more fun ... there are definitely better arguments to address that than "FH is OP so baseline it" ... because I can assure you, that's definitely not the attention you want to grab on something you like.
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1 minute ago, Bris.7984 said:
We are doomed to the ground!Only viable nerfs and nothing special to do some decent builds....
That doesn't make sense ... there are lots of 'special' things that can happen to get decent builds that don't involve just baselining random traits that people are addicted to.
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9 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:
Your argument is pointless since if it is that OP they would have changed it years ago.
Hold on ...
First, I'm not arguing Anet shouldn't make it baseline. That's just you not paying attention to what I'm saying.
Second, if that IS my argument and it's pointless that it's OP, then there isn't any argument for making it baseline either, because it's the SAME argument being used by other people to make it baseline.
Again, if the argument to make FH baseline because it's 'OP' ... it's the SAME argument to nerf it. That is my problem with how people are justifying FH being baseline.
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4 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:
OK. What prevents Anet from making Fast Hands baseline for warrior instead of nerfing it (if people say that the trait is so important and strong)? Nothing prevents them. They can do whatever they want. I think you base your argument around if something is important/strong, the one and only solution is to nerf it. There might have been cases where Anet nerfed important/strong things, but nothing stops them from taking different aproach in case of Fast Hands. In the end, it all depends on whether devs want warrior to have 5 second weapon swap on all builds, it does not depend on what players want.
That's right, nothing prevents Anet from doing whatever they want to do. I don't get why you are parroting back to me things I've said myself.
What is missing here is that people are SOMEHOW coming to the conclusion that FH being a trait that makes Discipline a must-have traitline excludes it from being nerfed and that it's a foregone conclusion Anet just baseline it. That's nonsense.
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8 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:
Its not Exceptional Behaviour they already removed the CD reducing traits and baselined it on all professions ( you might try to weasel out by finding this and that trait that I can't bother with looking up, but it most probably missed instead of intentional, since the plan as they stated before was reducing the variables to balancing for such cd anomalies).
There is already a precedent in the game for base lining cd reduction and by all intents and purposes Fast Hands is cd reduction trait that is already ran on all builds so there will be more options then elite spec discipline x .
There is argument that Bladesworn doesn't need to use Fast hands, but it only affects the rotation and not the output of the rigid builds you can do with it and even if you add it to the bunch its the easiest spec to balance of the bunch since its numbers are frontloaded in DT. We might see some touch up on tactics and arms if FH is baselined which they need anyway, quite frankly they need reworks.
The power creep argument is stupid , we pumping 40k dps on all builds in PVE , PVP is dead and even if someone gives a kitten, warrior will still switch weapons on 5 seconds like now, it will actually make it more consistent.
Again, nothing here is changing the fact that if people are going to push Fast Hands into Discipline being a MUST HAVE traitline to justify FH being baseline, then it's not unreasonable to think Anet would nerf it. It's not like you win some argument with me and POOF ... suddenly Anet can't nerf FH.
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6 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:
Your points are not clear to me.
Do you want Fast Hands to become baseline or not?
If not, then what is your argument against making Fast Hands baseline?
I don't care if FH becomes baseline. What I DO care about is when people make nonsensical arguments to make FH baseline that Anet could regard as a justification for a nerf.
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10 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:
What are we even arguing about?
I'm not arguing with you about anything, which is why I'm not answering questions you've asked me about this topic in previous threads. The answers don't change. Again, you called ME out in this thread ... I have no idea what for, other than to try and have another go at me.
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3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
I guess Illusionary Persona should have been nerfed instead of making it baseline instead then... You're stuck in a contrarian circle again on this topic.
That's a weird take: I didn't say Anet shouldn't make FHands baseline just because it's a trait so the idea that Illusionary Persona should have been nerfed instead of making it baseline makes no sense to me. But you know what's interesting is that this is a GOOD example of what I said earlier; Anet historically makes things baseline that are related to the class mechanic. That's why people are arguing with me that Weapon Swapping SHOULD be ANOTHER warrior class mechanic.
3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Does Anet handle Warrior properly? No, I think most objective players can say that Anet does not handle balancing well in general, but especially with this class. I think they over value the base HP and armor relative to what Warrior gets from it's skills and traits. I also think Bursts, for what they do, are not powerful enough for something that requires a resource that can be denied easily, on top of having so many traits that require mostly slow single hit attacks to hit to activate.
Removing some of the things that are bad, making some decent things a default, and expanding the class in capability are ways to address the way Anet has balanced the class. Baselining FH is in the "making some decent things a default' category.
Yes, I'm aware of that. That goes without saying. The discussion here isn't about whether making some decent things default is a way to address warrior balancing or not.
Again, my point here is that if people are going justify FH baseline because it makes Discipline a go-to traitline, then SHOULDN'T be arguing with me that Anet CAN'T use that same logic to nerf FHands. So sure, keep pumping these threads and arguing with me like Anet simply CAN'T nerf FH.
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17 hours ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:
Again I have to posit this potentially shocking perspective to you; ANet can be wrong about that. Them being unwilling to budge on Warrior's profession mechanic can be the exact wrong approach.
I understand where you are coming from with how you view it, they want it to work that way, its their vision, they potentially won't move on that. I fully grasp why that is logical, makes sense, etc, etc. It can 100% be the entirely wrong approach to this entire situation, though. Know how that can get rectified? Community feedback telling them that its not working, and also them being willing to listen to it and talking back with us.
Except this isn't about Anet 'budging' on Warrior mechanic because nothing about what is being asked for has ANYTHING to do with Warrior's mechanic. It's simply about players blatantly asking for power creep. Is Anet handling warrior badly? I see it, I don't think they do it justice ... but people have convinced themselves Anet will dump traits into baseline features of the class to fix that? That makes no sense. That would be exceptional behaviour for Anet to solve problems that way.
Here is the best part: Considering the way people are selling the FHands=baseline idea justifies NERFING that trait, the whole proposal is just dumb.
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14 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:
Running in circles, aren't we...
What is wrong or incorrect with making a trait baseline? What is wrong about integrating a trait into profession identity or mechanic to improve whole profession? Is it unfair to other professions? Is it unnecessary because there are other ways to improve the profession? Does Warrior profession need improvement? If it does, then why or how is Fast Hands baseline not the correct solution in your opinion? It wouldn't solve main issues with the profession and it would turn out to be "only" huge "quality of life" change?
It is obvious that making a trait baseline is pretty big exception in balancing but it was done in the past and probably will be in the future again.
You are hard set into thinking that a trait can't become baseline to achieve improvement and that is why no matter what, you will never agree, even though it is a vaild way to achieve improvement. If you think that Fast Hands wouldn't achieve improvement in areas where it is needed, feel free to elaborate.
It is tiring to discuss with you philosophy behind making a trait baseline instead of an impact and benefits of the actual change which is what matters more in the end.
It's only a circle to you because you keep trying to have some irrelevant argument with me. These questions you ask me here ... I'm sure they have been answered before.
I'm not arguing with you if making a trait baseline is incorrect. Anet's done it before. My point has NEVER been FHands can't be baseline because it's a trait.
If you are 'tired' of discussing this with me (which is obviously you talking a big load of nonsense since YOU called me out in this thread in the first place) ... then stop. 🤡
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3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
While I was clearing HoT on my cVirt yesterday I took the time to look at my F1-F5. The amount of power on those 5 skills dwarfs any single warrior burst (except maybe a fully stacked Dragon Slash Force in PvE). However, each of those had CDs ranging from 12s to 50s.
But you know what?
There is no reason why warrior cannot have a F1-F5 with CDs ranging from 10s to 40s or 50s. Or any number of F skills greater than 2...
- Move Berserk and Full Counter to F5, they would replace the core F5.
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Adrenaline now has 5 bars.
- Berserk still requires 3 bars to use
- Spellbreaker continues to only uses 1 bar at a time, and FC still cost 10 adrenaline, spellbreaker has adrenaline capped at 3 bars.
- F1 remains the current F1 unchanged.
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Each MH and 2H weapon gets a F2 and F3 added. Each OH and 2H gets an F4 and F5 added.
- Each has a separate CD from the others, each consumes up to 3 bars of adrenaline at a time.
- F2-F5 would be thematic to the weapon equipped, and with their CDs have appropriate effects based on 'Power Budgets (TM)'
- Bladesworn remains in a state of FUBAR until they rework it.
Sure, there are alternatives people can imagine for the Warrior class mechanic ... but you are wrong when you say there isn't a reason it's not something else. That reason is because it's not how Anet wants Warrior to work.
But beefing up the current Warrior class mechanic with more skills is not what the discussion here was about anyways. It was about someone implying Warrior get an ADDITIONAL class mechanic related to fast weapon swapping, obviously with the intent to justify Fast Hands being baseline. I think it's pretty obvious that classes have just one official class mechanic (and not the ones people invent as class mechanics like weapon swapping for Warrior), so it's pretty implausible to me Warrior would be an exception to that just to justify Fast hands being Baseline. Seems to me people are getting pretty desperate to win an argument here.
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5 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:
"What I think is more likely is that FH nerfed to 7-8 seconds and MAYBE compensate by pumping up Versatile Rage and Versatile Power to juice the class mechanic ... because if Fhands IS as fundamental to warrior as the burst mechanic as you say and it's competing with Burst as the warrior-defining mechanic ... it SHOULDN'T be. "
I see. So why it shouldn't be? Warrior can only have bursts as profession defining mechanic?
Pretty much. Why can Warrior only have burst as a profession defining mechanic? Have to ask Anet that. It can be whatever Anet decides it should be and it looks like Anet decided that classes have one defining mechanic. That is what I'm basing my opinion on here.
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1 hour ago, GamerToad.9248 said:
Anet never had any good take on balancing warrior so is very fair to not believe on them to do anything significant on warrior.
OK. Let's assume that's true ...
... yet SOMEHOW you convinced yourself they are going to do this one significant thing here by making FH baseline instead of any of the typical solutions they implement based on them 'not doing significant things on a warrior'. 🤡
That doesn't make sense.
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49 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:
How do you even nerf Fast Hands? Change it from 5 sec reduction to e.g. 2,5 sec? How does that make any sense at all? Based on what would be new cooldown reduction value even calculated? If it was 2,5 sec then Relic of Warrior would most likely become mandatory in builds that use Discipline... so much for variety.
I don't get this question ... I think it's pretty obvious the way Fast Hands could be nerfed. I've even gave an example in this thread of how Anet could change it.
How does it make sense? It makes just as much sense as the numerous other times Anet has changed a trait so it's less effective. It happens all the time, and it works because making something less effective makes it a less attractive choice. I mean, people are going to CONTINUE to push the narrative that Discipline is a must-have traitline ... but SOMEHOW convince themselves nerfing its traits to make it less attractive as a choice isn't an option to address that. That's just nonsense. It's the TYIPCAL option.
Is this the new tactic now? Pretending it's not even possible to nerf Fast Hands (even though there is an obvious way to do it), so the only solution is to make it baseline?
49 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:Perhaps you mean removing Fast Hands completely. How is removing Fast Hands a solution to improve non-Discipline builds... it would literally bring competetive builds in line with useless builds (in most cases). How is that a solution to anything?
No, I don't mean removing FHands at all but now you mention it, that is ALSO a solution we have seen Anet implement to change traits if they are OP'ed. Again, don't get into some mode where you convince yourself any solution that isn't the one you want is simply not an option. That's just not a reasonable expectation for people to have.
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10 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:
Neutering Fast hands will kill all the builds that rely on it. It will not lead to more builds to become playable.
Builds that aren't working without Fast Hands right now will not magically start working after Fast Hands gets neutered.
Yup, that's true but I'm not here to discuss how builds would get trashed or players would react to FHands getting a nerf. That goes without saying, for any nerf and 'people angry' or 'builds not work' have never stopped Anet from nerfing something before ... they aren't reasons now.
I'm simply telling you that you CAN'T ignore FHands nerf as a solution for 'fixing' whatever problems people are using to justify FHands as baseline, especially considering how Anet has behaved in the past. The reason people wish for it is irrelevant to Anet's decisions to make changes.
SOMEHOW you think changes making people anger is a reason Anet can't nerf Fhands. That's absurd. Anet make changes that anger people ALL THE TIME. SOMEHOW you convinced yourself FHands is an exception ... it's not.
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1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:
People have tested it. A few years ago, I tested it myself. Not having the CD reduction makes Warrior feel worse to play.
That makes no sense ... Warrior feeling worse to play without FH does not prove that making Fast hands baseline is 'literally the easiest' way for Anet to solve the problem of low build variety. NOTHING should convince you that Anet won't nerf a thing because it would 'feel worse to play'. That is fantasy.
1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:It's not simply about "what is easier." It's about "what is easier, while improving the build variety".
Making Fast Hands baseline objectively is less effort than fixing all the bugs, glitches and jank, while also improving all the traits and making our utilities better.
Again, why do you exclude the solution of nerfing Fast Hands if it's making Discipline a must -have traitline and low build variety is a problem with Warrior? You don't get to frame this problem to get the solution you want. That doesn't make sense. It's absurd to think a Fast Hands nerf would not be considered by Anet to solve that problem. If you don't believe this, you just aren't paying attention to how Anet operates for the last 11 years.
I mean, you and others are literally justifying a reason for Anet to nerf Fast Hands AND those reasons are similar to ones Anet has used to nerf traits in the past. I don't get how you can't see this, like SOMEHOW it couldn't happen to Warrior because you think it's exceptional in some way.
1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:Neutering Fast Hands will not improve build variety, it will the exact opposite. Thus, it is not a solution to a problem that can be solved with Fast Hands being baseline.
That doesn't make sense ... I would argue it's pretty obvious that nerfing OP'ed traits/traitlines makes other traits/traitlines more attractive to use, especially the MORE they are nerfed. In fact, that's exactly a reason why Anet has made trait nerfs in the past.
Simply put ... improving build variety depends ENTIRELY on the changes that are made and yes, COULD include nerfing FHands if it's indeed as influential to traitline choices as people say it is.
For SOME reason, you think that what Anet has done in the past isn't an indication of what they could do in the future. That's astounding to me.
This is what I hear ... "We want more build variety but we DON'T want it by giving up the thing causing a lack of build variety"
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24 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:
Making Fast Hands baseline literally is the easiest solution with the smallest amount of developers effort to improve build variety. More build variety is what Warrior players want.
lNerfing Fast hands will just kill all builds relying on it.
Again, no one knows if FHands being baseline is 'literally' the easiest solution here. That requires insight that no one here has. Again, if people want more build variety and conclude they get that if Discipline was less of a must-have traitline, then it's pretty absurd to think making Fast Hands baseline is 'literally easier' for Anet than just nerfing Fast Hands.
Honestly, you are going to believe that Anet taking Fast Hands, making it baseline and creating a new trait to take it's place in Discipline is 'literally easier' than Anet just changing Fast Hands weapon swap CD? I'm pretty sure the amount of work involved with changing the Fast Hands weapon swap CD is MUCH LESS than making Fast Hands base line AND creating a replacement trait.
lNerfing Fast hands will just kill all builds relying on it? Yes, that's pretty much the point ... you just told me you want more variety which means you don't want to be reliant on Discipline because of Fast Hands . Why do you think nerfing Fast hands isn't a solution to that problem?
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1 hour ago, GamerToad.9248 said:
THIS Right here says it all.... ANET Will never fix warrior issues enough so fast hands would be the fastest and safest way to make warrior more versatile and be less reliant on discipline.
This doesn't make sense ... you say Anet will NEVER fix warrior issues 'enough', but SOMEHOW you think they will put in the work to fix warrior problems 'a bit' m, specifically by making FHands baseline? That's just wishful thinking. Also you SOMEHOW concluded Fhands as baseline is the easiest and fastest way to do that? YOu simply don't know if that's true.
Again, if the problem that is to be solved is warrior is too reliant on Discipline because FHands ... making FHands baseline is NOT the easiest or typical solution that has been used to solve that problem of 'too much reliance on traitlines' in the past. The obvious solution is the one proponents want to ignore ... a fat nerf to Fast Hands.
How come no one wants to talk about the possibility that Fast hands could be nerfed because of the arguments people are making for it to be baseline? They don't believe it could happen? People don't believe Anet would come to this conclusion themselves? Like they have never nerfed strong traits before?
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3 hours ago, GamerToad.9248 said:
Fast hands at this point is to the same level of fundamental to the class as adrenaline is.
Tell you what anet would have nerfed fast hands at this point if they didn't know how important it is for warrior to function also various traits are 4 icd exactly cause fast hands is a massive part of warrior and the moment it is nerfed or deleted warrior will fall off to the point of uselessness.
Adrenaline have workaround with proper traits and got even better with arms change but fast hands does not have work around with a exception for warrior rune that is a weaker version of it.
Putting fast hands as baseline would not fix all warrior issues but kitten sure would make warrior way better overnight .
That might all be true, but game history is an indication of how Anet does things. When Anet makes things baseline, they are related to THE class mechanic. When traits are too strong and make their traitlies must-haves, they get nerfs. These are typical Anet behaviours. There isn't a reason to think Fast Hands is an exception to that behaviour.
Again, what you and others are doing here is ignoring the alternatives and staying hyper focused on problems where Fast Hands baseline is some attempt to solve those problems because it's the solution you want to see.
What you AREN'T doing is recognizing that those problems, whether it's "warrior = bad" or" Discipline is go-to traitline" ... have more than one solution to them.
It makes no sense to say "Oh, we have problems so ... exclude considering all solutions to those problems except for Fast Hands being baseline"
What I think is more likely is that FH nerfed to 7-8 seconds and MAYBE compensate by pumping up Versatile Rage and Versatile Power to juice the class mechanic ... because if Fhands IS as fundamental to warrior as the burst mechanic as you say and it's competing with Burst as the warrior-defining mechanic ... it SHOULDN'T be.
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56 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:
You know that philosophies change, "fundamental class mechanics"
There is no such thing.
The game needs to evolve
Sure they evolve but that in itself doesn't justify FH (or any other random trait) being baseline.
Frankly, there is a more fruitful discussion to be had about adrenaline changes for baseline improvements. At least that's plausible because there is no question there is a benefit for all warriors there.
The sad part is that few people think about the consequences of such a thing ... including the 'trade off' warriors are likely to get for access to such a such a benefit. Also, they somehow come to the conclusion that the only solution to strong traits that make lines default choices is to make those traits baseline. I can ASSURE you this is not the singular (or likely) option Anet will consider to solve that problem.
For posterity:
Make whatever argument for FH baseline you want. Pretty sure it's been covered here by people trying WAY to hard to ignore the fact that strong traits get NERFS, not made baseline.
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3 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:
OMG you think this Anet is the same Anet as inception.
That doesn't make sense. I didn't say anything about whether it's the 'same Anet' or not ...
... but the arguments for why FH should or shouldn't be baseline aren't any different than they were before. The only fundamental difference now is that specs have associated roles. Does that justify FH being baseline? I don't see it.
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FAST HANDS
in Warrior
Posted · Edited by Obtena.7952
Sure ... you and some other people won't say that ... but lots of people HAVE said it. That's a problem IMO because when people start carelessly saying things and making nonsensical suggestions, that don't help the situation any.
But what's funny is that when someone does say FH is making Discipline a must-have trait, the reasonable people that who wouldn't say that don't oppose that logic, like somehow, it's a better argument for baselining FH than simply pointing to the statement Anet made about baseling CD reduction traits as a goal. It's almost like those people who wouldn't say Discipline is OPed believe that grabbing attention to a class with bad suggestions is somehow still good for the class. Weird.