BadMed.3846

Strangely, people who want IH nerfed or changed didn't play mirage :p .Mean how can you understand something if you never play it. Well first off you dont know who plays what and who doesnt unless they admit that they do or do not play something to you and you hope they didnt lie.Unless you can break into their account or something you have no way of knowing this information but lets assume you are correct. Assuming you are correct the same thing still applies to other professionsPeople who want stealth nerfs dont play thiefPeople who want plasma nerfs dont play thief and rangerPeople who want fear and chill nerfs dont play necroPeople who want burn nerfs dont play weaver...do you see the pattern here. Mirage is not a special case. Wont be the first time wont be the last. In fact this is pretty common in most games that can be taken in any kind of competitive form even the ones that are not meant to be super competitive.One side might say the other is not balanced purely because they play against that side and find it too advantageous to commonly play around on the flip side the side that people complain about might find something on the opposing side even thought they don't play as that side that they also consider too advantageous or unfair. It wouldnt be balanced if only the side that played that one thing dictated what should be buffed and nerfed with that side or in this case in that profession. Yes its nice to have people who honestly care and want things to be fair but we must admit that many ideas that people think in their own heads would be fair are quite unfair and you dont see them that way till someone from outside the box points it out to you. You are right, that's why I didn't ask for other class nerf as I didn't know well their mecanics. Which isn't the case for many "rework" (nerf) mesmers suggestions. @BadMed.3846 said: Strangely, people who want IH nerfed or changed didn't play mirage :p .Mean how can you understand something if you never play it. Scroll back and read. Stop individually calling out for details when relevant information is already there. Sorry, I didn't find the relevant informations who detail the mesmer "big picture" can you quote it please ?I hope you understand that I don't owe you anything and you're not entitled to anything here. Look around the forums to get your answers. You're not my problem and your questions are not my issues either. Paint your blurry big picture the way you like. To the wider audience - we need to get rid of Condi mirage spec.

i said it before and i shall say it again, IH should be baseline. Its condi damage should be nerfed by ¬¬70%, daze from sword clones should be removed. and there should be other buffs that should follow, like torment on shatter buffed, confusion on blind and that kitten confusion on ambush trait that is utter garbage. also all clone ambushes should deal some damage, 200-400 on each is not too much to ask for. same damage for condi would be healthy. along with buffed other traits this would provide okish sustain damage for spec that was supposed to be sustain, while still being focused on interactive shatter playstyle of weaving in and out of melee range.Fixing axe could follow too. Just wondering, what is sword clone ambush supposed to do in your view when you delete the insane 1/4 sec daze on a slow, well animated and easy to avoid leap animation? The dmg sword clone ambush does is nearly zero and it doesn't do anything else. Also sword ambsuh is the best and most active designed ambush with the daze effect instead just high dmg in my view. Because the daze for mindful, timed interrupts is something a player can active use to outplay opponents, it is a way better design then only pure dmg. Sword clone ambush is how all ambushes should be designed: More about effects/ utility the player can use to active outplay opponents then only pure dmg. Still waiting for your or @"ZDragon.3046" arguments to get listed or at least (when you have no own arguments) the quote of the arguments from other ppl your claims are related to. Neither in this thread nor in any other thread in the whole forum i could find any explanations, reasoning or a single argument listed from a single poster asking for IH nerfs. Just claiming something and not proving anything is not how constructive converstions are done. And you even do that twice, you claim IH i op and needs nerfs without explaining and you claim that the arguments are written somewhere already in the forum without being able to quote a single one. Where are the relevant informations about WHY IH needs nerfs and about WHY my arguments are wrong? All i could find are unexplained claimes and nerf requests. If you can't do either of it, then pls stop repeating "IH is the or an issue" like a broken record. This turns the forum into nothing more than a gossip factory. Also still waiting for the quote af the Anet dev/employee post where he is asking for and explaining IH nerf suggestions you said exist anywhere (what i highly doubt, every single nerf request for IH was from players only).You need to make up your mind. I thought you moved on and didn't need anything from us. But, if you do need information, try going back and reading all over again. If you have other specific questions, then we're not getting paid to answer them. Don't forget what I said at the start, this is a forum and we're sharing opinions. They may differ and it's ok. You need to learn to move on.

Strangely, people who want IH nerfed or changed didn't play mirage :p .Mean how can you understand something if you never play it. Scroll back and read. Stop individually calling out for details when relevant information is already there.

Again just meaningless claims. Explanations/ arguments need to happen at least a single time otherwise it is nothing more than a rumour and you can't prove a rumour to be right by its pure existence. We're all a rumour and you're the truth.Your walls are thick and our posts are paper.You've got substance and we're the illusions.Our ambush is coming, but not so soon.Wait 20s ICD, before it's full moon!

IH is broken and addition of an ICD to it is perfectly reasonable. There's NOTHING wrong with supporting this idea. Walls don't need to be built to dig a pit. Also, IH is just one of many things that need to be nerfed.

A standalone PvP gw2 is likely to be a commercial disaster. Think about investment and return. PvP population is only a very small proportion of the game population. Also, the incentive to play is often gear for other game modes. I doubt it will ever happen.

Do you think that gutting mirage will make him stop botting? or is he just gonna drop to 1250 and bot there? is there a difference? I did say "On a related note". No, it won't stop botting. You're right, it will go lower in tiers and bot there. Agree. But, it doesn't change the fact how easy it is to abuse a spec like Condi Mirage. This also means that mindless lower tier players are button mashing it to victory. then learn to abuse mindless mashing. count dodges, CC after dodge, stow cancel, its not difficult. Entire spec shouldnt be neuter becouse people like you are too lazy to think while playing and are content on autopiloting. you play like a bot that, do the same thing the bot does and stay the same rank the bot does, your advantage over the bot is adaptability, you refuse to use it, you get farmed by a bot. Oh well, great suggestion. Learn to abuse a broken spec! Thanks, I'm not interested in that. I'm not trying to counter a bot. And let's not go on the ranks topic. I checked your rank the @mortrialus.3062 way and you've not even done the minimum number of matches this season. Looking at your other posts too, all you seem to be interested in is more cheese and passive condi spam. I might be getting more joy reading your posts! you are not interested in learning, its Player vs Player, if one guy is trying to win, and you are not. good chances the guy that tries to win, Will in fact win! SUPRISE.you just said you have troubles winning against mirage bots, how can anyone take you seriusly after that? In all my playtime I only met 1 mirage bot, quick free win and move on, reported ofc. You are not interested in the game. I never said I have trouble winning against Mirage Bots. You need to first learn to read. Your playtime is less than 45 games this season, psst. You are not making any sensible contribution and simply going on about preserving cheese that you play. Stop kidding . I have 142 games this season, the fact that YOU are too incompetent to use search function just shows much about you.I bet you have the same attitude towards the game, spend 5s trying and give up :D I'll trust @mortrialus.3062 if he grabs a screenshot of your games count. I looked up merely by adding you and you don't show up on friends' leaderboard at all. Implies you are either lying or the board is lagged for long. Either way, don't try to mesmerise us with your cheese. Your credibility is runing at < 0. Over and out to your pointless "give me cheese" posts.

Do you think that gutting mirage will make him stop botting? or is he just gonna drop to 1250 and bot there? is there a difference? I did say "On a related note". No, it won't stop botting. You're right, it will go lower in tiers and bot there. Agree. But, it doesn't change the fact how easy it is to abuse a spec like Condi Mirage. This also means that mindless lower tier players are button mashing it to victory. then learn to abuse mindless mashing. count dodges, CC after dodge, stow cancel, its not difficult. Entire spec shouldnt be neuter becouse people like you are too lazy to think while playing and are content on autopiloting. you play like a bot that, do the same thing the bot does and stay the same rank the bot does, your advantage over the bot is adaptability, you refuse to use it, you get farmed by a bot.Oh well, great suggestion. Learn to abuse a broken spec! Thanks, I'm not interested in that. I'm not trying to counter a bot. And let's not go on the ranks topic. I checked your rank the @mortrialus.3062 way and you've not even done the minimum number of matches this season. Looking at your other posts too, all you seem to be interested in is more cheese and passive condi spam. I might be getting more joy reading your posts!

Do you think that gutting mirage will make him stop botting? or is he just gonna drop to 1250 and bot there? is there a difference? I did say "On a related note". No, it won't stop botting. You're right, it will go lower in tiers and bot there. Agree. But, it doesn't change the fact how easy it is to abuse a spec like Condi Mirage. This also means that mindless lower tier players are button mashing it to victory.

On a related note, the condi mirage bot I'm a big fan of (I don't die to it but my team does a lot) has managed to complete 820 games this season alone. I can't even calculate the amount of gold he's gathered. But he's at well above 1300 rating. Clear evidence of spammability of a spec.

@Leonidrex.5649 one way or another, joy matters. It's good, you see.

I do specifically see scepter / pistol and staff Condi mirage spec being the problem. Interrupts followed with bleeds and finally the ability to run off at will, only to get back soon after to unload again.

Just to clarify to everyone, looking at the big picture of where Mirage is and how ridiculously broken it is in its current state, players cannot be expected to delve into the detail of everything that's contributing to it. There are several posts across the forums that talk about IH, Chaos Vortex and a range of other things contributing to this. It's fair enough for some of us to show faith in the capabilities of the development team to work out balancing options. I'm sure they have a job and I hope we all understand it.

Shorts Gaming for one, look him up on Twitch. Recently was playing One Shot mirage in ranked and doing well. The problem is that Mesmer and all its elites were meant to be hard to play and master. Builds like Condi Mirage made it accessible to everyone and super easy to succeed in lower tiers and it still provides high reward for extremely low risk and effort. I only named one good player but I'm sure there are plenty others and they're doing just fine and will keep doing so. he can do well at almost any build, but im happy you mentioned him, since he says that other classes are easy compared to mesmer.he also thinks chrono is unplayable, and mirage without IH is unplayable.Mb you should actually watch him and pay attention? his recent stream ( from 1 or 2 days ago ) he played spb and reaper, and its funny watching how little effort he had to put in compared to mesmer to get the same/better result. The highest Shorts ever got on the Leader board was #5 maining Spellbreaker a few seasons back. Leaderboards are not really a true reflection of how good someone is. Even us gold players know it very well how some guys are duo queueing at odd hours to dodge other good players and climb the ladder. You: Mesmer is exploited by players in ranked. Just look at Shorts and how well he does!Me: The best Shorts ever did in ranked was when he very publicly quit mesmer to stream and make videos about Spellbreaker out of frustration regarding mesmer nerfs with almost no prior experience on Spellbreaker.You: Well, not quite. I just mentioned shorts as I randomly saw him streaming. Was a good example that mirage is still very well playable. And that too power. But you get stuck on his history and opinions. You're making unnecessary assumptions. I don't really follow him and nor do I intend to follow and mirage players. In short: your example blew up in your face. You chose said example because of lack of expertise and knowledge which now required you to backpedal since the example given actually worked against the point you were trying to make. Finally your own lack of performance in the game mode prohibits you from showing own data but rather relying on other players to prove your point. Players who on the top end are harder and harder to come by since the class is not as represented as it should be if it was so overpowered. Got it. TL;DR:Player gives bad example, lack of personal skill in the game mode prevents own proof of arguments, still knows what is best for the game and class balance. In short, you're another one making bad assumptions. Read the post again, might help. My expertise is not dependent on watching a streamer on twitch. It's not that hard to understand that someone questioned existence of a good Mesmer and I dropped that name it as I saw his once on twitch. TL;DRYou're another random stopping by to shoot down a post that supports Mesmer nerfs. Yet another bad player that needs Condi mirage crutches! doesnt it make you scratch your head, that mesmer main. drops his class to play a class with compleatly different playstyle and starts winning more?for all your whining im kinda jelly, you dont get to be kitten over by holo, that resustains to full hp 3 times during a duel, or spb that eats your entire combo and loses 60% hp, only to spam dodges like monkey only to be healed passively due to overtuned traits/signet.You dont see the joy of monkeys using condi thief to their full potential, the onse that actually dodge skills and not spam it randomly, the onse that will literarly dodge everything you throw at them that is not cast instantly, and the only counterplay is to guess their 10k poison instacast ability.You dont get to play capricorn against 3 firebrands that just rubeachother on the node. ( god bless scourge nerf ) kitten game would be so fun and easy if our biggest worry was condi mirage.Well finally there's a reasonable point to talk about. Yes, I see all that and I have no issues with nerfs to those. I support them too! Condi thief is another effortless spec and need to go. Others need tuning down too. Condi Mirage is worst of all still; though but Mesmers want to pretend that it's week and already nerfed to ground. The difference is that most good thief mains realise the issue with Condi thief and dislike it. Mesmers are the opposite. They really want access to broken builds and that's what they've been relying on for years. I'm not making statistical claims here, just sharing my observations.

Shorts Gaming for one, look him up on Twitch. Recently was playing One Shot mirage in ranked and doing well. The problem is that Mesmer and all its elites were meant to be hard to play and master. Builds like Condi Mirage made it accessible to everyone and super easy to succeed in lower tiers and it still provides high reward for extremely low risk and effort. I only named one good player but I'm sure there are plenty others and they're doing just fine and will keep doing so. he can do well at almost any build, but im happy you mentioned him, since he says that other classes are easy compared to mesmer.he also thinks chrono is unplayable, and mirage without IH is unplayable.Mb you should actually watch him and pay attention? his recent stream ( from 1 or 2 days ago ) he played spb and reaper, and its funny watching how little effort he had to put in compared to mesmer to get the same/better result. The highest Shorts ever got on the Leader board was #5 maining Spellbreaker a few seasons back. Leaderboards are not really a true reflection of how good someone is. Even us gold players know it very well how some guys are duo queueing at odd hours to dodge other good players and climb the ladder. You: Mesmer is exploited by players in ranked. Just look at Shorts and how well he does!Me: The best Shorts ever did in ranked was when he very publicly quit mesmer to stream and make videos about Spellbreaker out of frustration regarding mesmer nerfs with almost no prior experience on Spellbreaker.You: Well, not quite. I just mentioned shorts as I randomly saw him streaming. Was a good example that mirage is still very well playable. And that too power. But you get stuck on his history and opinions. You're making unnecessary assumptions. I don't really follow him and nor do I intend to follow and mirage players. new players have this odd misconceptions of what bad is.i could play power mirage, never EVER attack my oponents, just run around decaping, and get 35% winrate in the rank im currently in.I will give you league of legends as an example, champions with 47-48% winrate are considered trash, and the ones with 52+ are S tier or godlike.If you nerf something by 50% it becomes trash, if i can manage 52% winrate with cmirage, after nerfing every single ability by 50%, making cmirage utter garbage, I would still propably have about 45-48% winrate.This is not league of legends. Where a bot can maintain 50% win loss ratio, the class is spammable and broken. Same was the case with scourge a long while back where you could button mash to victory. Condi mirage is broken and it needs nerfs. That's all I'm saying.

Shorts Gaming for one, look him up on Twitch. Recently was playing One Shot mirage in ranked and doing well. The problem is that Mesmer and all its elites were meant to be hard to play and master. Builds like Condi Mirage made it accessible to everyone and super easy to succeed in lower tiers and it still provides high reward for extremely low risk and effort. I only named one good player but I'm sure there are plenty others and they're doing just fine and will keep doing so. he can do well at almost any build, but im happy you mentioned him, since he says that other classes are easy compared to mesmer.he also thinks chrono is unplayable, and mirage without IH is unplayable.Mb you should actually watch him and pay attention? his recent stream ( from 1 or 2 days ago ) he played spb and reaper, and its funny watching how little effort he had to put in compared to mesmer to get the same/better result. The highest Shorts ever got on the Leader board was #5 maining Spellbreaker a few seasons back.Leaderboards are not really a true reflection of how good someone is. Even us gold players know it very well how some guys are duo queueing at odd hours to dodge other good players and climb the ladder.

Shorts Gaming for one, look him up on Twitch. Recently was playing One Shot mirage in ranked and doing well. The problem is that Mesmer and all its elites were meant to be hard to play and master. Builds like Condi Mirage made it accessible to everyone and super easy to succeed in lower tiers and it still provides high reward for extremely low risk and effort. I only named one good player but I'm sure there are plenty others and they're doing just fine and will keep doing so.

Im having fun and im having constant close games, and most of the oponents are power builds. For some reason people think its "cheese meta" when 30%-40% of players play condi, how about constant cheese power meta? warrior/holo every game, tfu. Power is not cheese. You need to work for it. Condi builds are cheese in general. Big difference.

As I said I was not really playing, I was just curious to see how this guy is allowed to play like this.But yes, I am in Gold 1. It's not your fault. Some kids think only plat and above should have a say. They forget that they're a minority after all.

sorry mate but you are in silver, what happens in silver should stay in silver.the higher you go, the better you get, the more you will realize that its not mirage thats busted. its holo.when I +1 people its the warrior that has a chance of winning 1v2, not mirage. mirage dodges,invulns. teleports once or twice and then flops dead.its warrior that can burst you down in 1,5s if you make a mistake.Most people dont get that this game is not about 1v1, every time you pick a build, you need to ask yourself what is your job, what do you bring to the team, towards what wincondition do you play.Condi mirage just autowins against some builds and it pisses people off, I get it, its easy to play and it kitten on some builds. On the other side of the coin lies the fact that some other builds kitten on condi mirage too. Personal feelings clouds judgment.The upcoming nerf to staff ambush is a step in the right direction, wrong reason as always. It sucks to be nerfed by 50% yet again, but the game will be better for it so ill take it in a good stride. I'm not really in silver. But I'm not claiming to be an elite pro either. Sure I even go bronze with decay, but that doesn't matter. It doesn't bother me so it shouldn't bother you either. What happens in silver actually matters way more than what happens in plat and silver players significantly outnumber plat players. Your vision is narrow and I don't think you get it. If you play in gold at all, you'll notice plenty of bots in gold 1 and 2 running Condi mirage and maintaining 50% win loss ratio. That says a lot! Don't take my hate for mirage in the wrong way. My point is simply that is a pointless brainead build that gets severely exploited at the hands of good players. If you understand the state of the game, often gold players face plat and above players at odd hours of the day. So what stays in gold doesn't often stay in gold only. I suggest you look at the fact of the broken spec and PvP population at the same time to understand how it is breaking the game.

Mirage is still the preferred class for most bots. For a good reason. At an even skill level, even bronze tier, they're over performing. Ridiculous amounts of bleed and torment, combined with confusion and some burns and then finally endless ability to disengage only to return and unload it all over again. Talking about higher tier, I've even seen a twitch streamers faceroll with one shot mirage builds. Even they have way more sustain compared to other high damage specs. Get over your lame personal attacks and accept the simple fact. Mirage is "still" facerolling in game and is horrible for the game. Tune it down considerably to let everyone enjoy. As much as I complain about Mirage, I don't compain about any other classes. Sure other specs are also over-performing and deserve nerfs too. But Mirage is UTTERLY BROKEN and EzyMode Troll Spec!

When the 50% nerfs "as usual" make minimal difference then it's surely time for the next 50% nerfs. It shows how ridiculously broken the spec is. Good mirage players are still facerolling with this spec and it needs to stop. IH needs the nerf!

We need input from A Nut. It's getting A Nal. A Net is not going to cut it!

hey, glad you are back.we missed your expertise on this topic. since you know more then us due to your high ranking, can you share with the rest what else needs to be done? I'm not here to offer my expertise. Someone expressed their opinion and I'm entitled to have my own. I'm sure you've got issues with that but I'm not here to address your issues either. I support the proposed nerfs.

The planned nerfs are what we need!