Ferelwing.8463

Its opinions like this that gives raiders a bad name unfortunately with their 'must be lazy blah blah' attitude. The majority of players are actually adults with many years experience playing mmorpg including raids and have good reasons for not having the time to devote large timeblocks to a game and want raiding in the style you get on every other AAA mmorpg out there. This is 2018, not 2005. That's OK. Raiding is not mandatory, and neither are its rewards. And we're back to the "raiders get the top tier looking stuff" while people who actually change their builds with every patch/ during certain hours on their servers in wvw etc get... bleh stuff.. So can we have a conversation on that then? Can you explain to me why you "deserve" the shiniest of the shinies when you rarely change your builds? coz you already have legendary armor in wvw, and the skin itself is for pve only? Also pvp doesn't even use stats that are tied to armor. Do you want the skin in wvw too?I'd be willing to trade the envoy set for the mistforged triumphant if you want the envoy skin that much if that's what you want. Have you seen the Legendary Armor in WvW? Seriously, it's kinda pathetic when you put it beside Envoy Armor. It's not even really close. You can tell that the WvW armor was an afterthought NOT something they imagined as an epic thing for WvW. It seriously needs a rework. The chest piece is the only nice thing about it. Look at the entire rest of it. (Plus if you look at the leather vs heavy vs Light... It could really use a better look.) You can get two options.. There's the Mistforged and then the Triumphant. To do the Mistforged you need to reach level 1k and then it's about 29 weeks of squirmish tickets to manage it. If you go the basic Triumphant Hero's it looks exactly like the exotic (no particle effects etc) and it takes 22 weeks. The Mistforged has a nice chest piece but the rest of the armor is rather boring. It doesn't offer any of the "cool effects" you see in the Envoy Armor. Also seriously the helmets are not that great looking (except maybe the heavy armor and even then the super huge horns are a bit over-done, maybe for a Charr but it looks silly on an asura...) That's because they were not designed with legendary tier in mind. Ability to change them to legendaries came later, and wasn't planned originally. Completely unlike Envoy, which was designed around it being a legendary armor set from the very beginning, and thus looks accordingly.Exactly, and this is a big problem.. Because (as I've pointed out throughout this thread) PVE rarely if ever changes their stats. They do not need to pop out of combat and immediately change them. They do not need to have 2 or 3 (or more depending on toons) sets of complete ascended armor to change into based on what they are doing at any particular point in the day. Their builds follow a binary build path. Whereas WvW does not.

Its opinions like this that gives raiders a bad name unfortunately with their 'must be lazy blah blah' attitude. The majority of players are actually adults with many years experience playing mmorpg including raids and have good reasons for not having the time to devote large timeblocks to a game and want raiding in the style you get on every other AAA mmorpg out there. This is 2018, not 2005. That's OK. Raiding is not mandatory, and neither are its rewards. And we're back to the "raiders get the top tier looking stuff" while people who actually change their builds with every patch/ during certain hours on their servers in wvw etc get... bleh stuff.. So can we have a conversation on that then? Can you explain to me why you "deserve" the shiniest of the shinies when you rarely change your builds? coz you already have legendary armor in wvw, and the skin itself is for pve only? Also pvp doesn't even use stats that are tied to armor. Do you want the skin in wvw too?I'd be willing to trade the envoy set for the mistforged triumphant if you want the envoy skin that much if that's what you want. I don’t think that is what he is asking for, however something on par to Envoy Armor. I think Mistforged Triumphant Armor should get a face lift.I'm female but yes, the armor needs a facelift. The chest piece is ok but the rest of it? It is just kinda boring. Seriously though, the set looks exactly like the "Exotic/Ascended" except in combat, at least the Envoy looks differently the whole time.

Its opinions like this that gives raiders a bad name unfortunately with their 'must be lazy blah blah' attitude. The majority of players are actually adults with many years experience playing mmorpg including raids and have good reasons for not having the time to devote large timeblocks to a game and want raiding in the style you get on every other AAA mmorpg out there. This is 2018, not 2005. That's OK. Raiding is not mandatory, and neither are its rewards. And we're back to the "raiders get the top tier looking stuff" while people who actually change their builds with every patch/ during certain hours on their servers in wvw etc get... bleh stuff.. So can we have a conversation on that then? Can you explain to me why you "deserve" the shiniest of the shinies when you rarely change your builds? coz you already have legendary armor in wvw, and the skin itself is for pve only? Also pvp doesn't even use stats that are tied to armor. Do you want the skin in wvw too?I'd be willing to trade the envoy set for the mistforged triumphant if you want the envoy skin that much if that's what you want. I don’t think that is what he is asking for, however something on par to Envoy Armor. I think Mistforged Triumphant Armor should get a face lift. If the Mistforged Triumphant Armor is the set with the Turel light tentacles I would love to rock that skin my warrior over the envoy set but I don't WvW anywhere near the degree needed to get that so I probably never will. I've personally made peace with that. I think the chest piece has enough flair for sure, however I think the individual part, gloves boots legs etc. need an extra bit of umph.Exactly, the entire set needs to look better. One piece does not an armor set make. Plus level 1.5k... You can get a set sooner of course if you want, it's the exotic without flare and then you can wait again till you're level 1k to get the other skin... 29 weeks at 365 skirmish tickets a week or 22 weeks with 365 skirmish tickets a week. Easier to get the first set initially and then save up for the next set... But it would be nice if both sets were nicer looking in general.

Its opinions like this that gives raiders a bad name unfortunately with their 'must be lazy blah blah' attitude. The majority of players are actually adults with many years experience playing mmorpg including raids and have good reasons for not having the time to devote large timeblocks to a game and want raiding in the style you get on every other AAA mmorpg out there. This is 2018, not 2005. That's OK. Raiding is not mandatory, and neither are its rewards. And we're back to the "raiders get the top tier looking stuff" while people who actually change their builds with every patch/ during certain hours on their servers in wvw etc get... bleh stuff.. So can we have a conversation on that then? Can you explain to me why you "deserve" the shiniest of the shinies when you rarely change your builds? coz you already have legendary armor in wvw, and the skin itself is for pve only? Also pvp doesn't even use stats that are tied to armor. Do you want the skin in wvw too?I'd be willing to trade the envoy set for the mistforged triumphant if you want the envoy skin that much if that's what you want. I don’t think that is what he is asking for, however something on par to Envoy Armor. I think Mistforged Triumphant Armor should get a face lift. If the Mistforged Triumphant Armor is the set with the Turel light tentacles I would love to rock that skin my warrior over the envoy set but I don't WvW anywhere near the degree needed to get that so I probably never will. I've personally made peace with that.The chest piece is ok but it could really use a bit more. The rest of the set is rather low key compared.

Its opinions like this that gives raiders a bad name unfortunately with their 'must be lazy blah blah' attitude. The majority of players are actually adults with many years experience playing mmorpg including raids and have good reasons for not having the time to devote large timeblocks to a game and want raiding in the style you get on every other AAA mmorpg out there. This is 2018, not 2005. That's OK. Raiding is not mandatory, and neither are its rewards. And we're back to the "raiders get the top tier looking stuff" while people who actually change their builds with every patch/ during certain hours on their servers in wvw etc get... bleh stuff.. So can we have a conversation on that then? Can you explain to me why you "deserve" the shiniest of the shinies when you rarely change your builds? coz you already have legendary armor in wvw, and the skin itself is for pve only? Also pvp doesn't even use stats that are tied to armor. Do you want the skin in wvw too?I'd be willing to trade the envoy set for the mistforged triumphant if you want the envoy skin that much if that's what you want.Have you seen the Legendary Armor in WvW? Seriously, it's kinda pathetic when you put it beside Envoy Armor. It's not even really close. You can tell that the WvW armor was an afterthought NOT something they imagined as an epic thing for WvW. It seriously needs a rework. The chest piece is the only nice thing about it. Look at the entire rest of it. (Plus if you look at the leather vs heavy vs Light... It could really use a better look.) You can get two options.. There's the Mistforged and then the Triumphant. To do the Mistforged you need to reach level 1k and then it's about 29 weeks of squirmish tickets to manage it. If you go the basic Triumphant Hero's it looks exactly like the exotic (no particle effects etc) and it takes 22 weeks. The Mistforged has a nice chest piece but the rest of the armor is rather boring. It doesn't offer any of the "cool effects" you see in the Envoy Armor. Also seriously the helmets are not that great looking (except maybe the heavy armor and even then the super huge horns are a bit over-done, maybe for a Charr but it looks silly on an asura...)

Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone. I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see. Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves. Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value. you do know im referring to ESO as well right? ESO has millions of players now its 2nd behind GW in my opinion. In any case, i was stating a fact, millions like easy mode. You can apply any context you like to that statement, it doesnt change the fact. Absolutely, it is a fact. Just as it is a fact that Blizzard is re-releasing 1.12 after hundreds of millions of development into their game is a fact. Just as that ESO had a very rocky launch and had to go free to play to even remotely recover and is one of the only games which offers realm versus realm. All of those are facts. We can now take each of them individually and draw conclusions off of individual facts or try to look at the big picture and figure out what is going on overall. No one is denying that millions enjoy easy mode raids. People simply disagree that this fact is proof in support of easy mode raids for GW2 being a good idea. Just to point out though, people love nostalgia. It’s like classic Everquest, when I spent a summer playing in my late teens, people enjoy going back and reliving experiences of their first mmo, for most that would be Wow. Same thing if Gw1 got a content update, people would go back. People generally loving going back to simpler times and reliving those moments. Edit: This is also a human thing as well, how many of you would like to go back to a simpler time and relive those experiences. Actually when they had that brief revamp (bringing back a classic EQ) I went back for a bit but then I remembered how irritating it was and I left. Nostalgia can be a bad thing. Fair enough, EQ was pretty hardcore back in the day.Yeah it really was... I forgot how hardcore till I went back during that period. I left about 2 months later and never went back again. Before that I was playing a Necro on EQ as well (was one of the best solo classes because you could kite quite a few mobs, plus feign death to remove the aggro was a major plus). Outside of the mobs that summoned I could take pretty much anything in the game solo and if I was paired with either a monk or a ranger I could kill everything. All they had to do was buff me and I then sit back while I dotted things to death. I thought that going back to the original EQ would be exciting, but then they brought back all the mechanics I hated so... Yeah I quit and like I said I just never really looked back.

i'm not talking about gear, I sub to ESO and i enjoy raids casually, the gear is good enough and i get 10 man content. Yet gear is all the reason "casual" raids exist. look you guys are frantically, desperately trying to find holes in what i'm saying. ONCE AGAIN all im saying is there is a precedent for casual raids, thats it, thats all. Its a truth, not an opinion, fact. The precedent includes the complete package, which you are leaving out completely. "Casual" Raids being there to get gear for the higher tier Raids, and higher Raids having much better quality gear than normal Raids. THAT'S the precedent in other games, not that "Casual" Raids simply exist in other games. You are omitting half the truth, which makes your argument misleading and flawed at best. I know this, we all know this. in GW2 its skins, in other games its gearsets, that doesn't invalidate my point about millions of player playing casually. If you guys want to beleive that GW2 is the onbly AAA mmorpg in existance that somehow has casual players that would not like 10 man instances, you go on ahead.I'd do 10 man content if it wasn't a massive time commitment because getting my family to actually do the content with me is already a decent pain, after they complete 1 part they're "done". They do it to see it but they're not interested in grinding period... In fact it's one of their biggest complaints. They hate grinding. (I'd do it with family only because I'm not really interested in randoms within an instance). If I could get 10 man fractals where I could just grab my casual family members to come play with me. I'd absolutely do it (maybe I could convince them to leave League for an hour or two). But having to commit a ton of time, everyone getting to fail for 4 hours? Nope, not doing it. I'm an adult and I can spend my time doing better things and I have zero interest in playing with randoms in instanced content ever again.

Yeah you can go ahead and cut that kitten out. Stop projecting on to other people. You pointed out WoW has tons of people currently doing easy mode raids. I'm sure that's true. I'm pointing out that back when Nostalrius was around there were more people playing older versions of WoW than there were playing live WoW. Enough people to convince Blizzard to release classic WoW after refusing to for the better part of a decade. Yeah, easy mode raids have a certain appeal. I can't deny that. It's the same appeal Istan farms have. But you can't deny the way classic WoW did things had it's own appeal considering how many people are still playing that as well. That's all I'm saying. And it's be nice if you could actually respond to me like a grown up and have a grown up conversation with someone. I didnt deny class wow had good stuff, all i said was millions like easy mode raids. That's it, the rest is just ducking and diving from what i can see. Saying millions like something after a game has lost millions of players simply shows that not everything done was disproved of by the player base. Having a developer re-release a way earlier version of their game which has had hundreds of millions in development since then shows that they've noticed that they lost a very huge crowd of their initial players. This is even more evident if the games versions are competing with themselves. Without context stating that millions like something is of 0 value. you do know im referring to ESO as well right? ESO has millions of players now its 2nd behind GW in my opinion. In any case, i was stating a fact, millions like easy mode. You can apply any context you like to that statement, it doesnt change the fact. Absolutely, it is a fact. Just as it is a fact that Blizzard is re-releasing 1.12 after hundreds of millions of development into their game is a fact. Just as that ESO had a very rocky launch and had to go free to play to even remotely recover and is one of the only games which offers realm versus realm. All of those are facts. We can now take each of them individually and draw conclusions off of individual facts or try to look at the big picture and figure out what is going on overall. No one is denying that millions enjoy easy mode raids. People simply disagree that this fact is proof in support of easy mode raids for GW2 being a good idea. Just to point out though, people love nostalgia. It’s like classic Everquest, when I spent a summer playing in my late teens, people enjoy going back and reliving experiences of their first mmo, for most that would be Wow. Same thing if Gw1 got a content update, people would go back. People generally loving going back to simpler times and reliving those moments. Edit: This is also a human thing as well, how many of you would like to go back to a simpler time and relive those experiences.Actually when they had that brief revamp (bringing back a classic EQ) I went back for a bit but then I remembered how irritating it was and I left. Nostalgia can be a bad thing.

Its opinions like this that gives raiders a bad name unfortunately with their 'must be lazy blah blah' attitude. The majority of players are actually adults with many years experience playing mmorpg including raids and have good reasons for not having the time to devote large timeblocks to a game and want raiding in the style you get on every other AAA mmorpg out there. This is 2018, not 2005. That's OK. Raiding is not mandatory, and neither are its rewards.And we're back to the "raiders get the top tier looking stuff" while people who actually change their builds with every patch/ during certain hours on their servers in wvw etc get... bleh stuff.. So can we have a conversation on that then? Can you explain to me why you "deserve" the shiniest of the shinies when you rarely change your builds?

It wasn't an arbitrary amount, it was a conversion between korean won to dollars, a currency that reddit users would more likely understand. Who knows the exchange rate of korean won and how it translates in other currencies? If they used the different exchange rates at the different times then the results of each quarter wouldn't be compatible with each other. Instead, they used the same exchange rate for all quarters, which is the sensible thing to do. You on the other hand complaining about those numbers doesn't make any sense, unless you are pushing an agenda. ** Actually from reading the entire thread it states that they used the currency that was current at the various times in the game. The only thing they did not add into the equation was inflation. The results were accurate based on the timeframe they did not use current exchange rates at all. The graphs were harder on GW1 vs GW2 and it did show a decline after HoT launched, the breakdown was the sales report (NCsoft placed their earnings in it but the part used for the chart was the sales portion). HoT had a -25% (afterwards) and current earnings state that PoF was a huge success (if you calculate in that it was released later and add in what the chart would have for other earnings). Then you add in that there hasn't really been a content drought (unlike before HoT and a bit after it). Patches are more regular etc... I think content was a problem but also "time spent" more solo players are returning to play GW2. PoF allowed Solo players to actually play rather than "holding people up at meta map events" etc... I know that my kids have enjoyed PoF much more than they liked HoT because they can do more things solo and don't have a meta in a map to prevent them from exploring etc. Add in that the mounts make moving a lot faster/more fun and they've played more often. While the evidence is anecdotal my sons who want to play casually actually log in more often, which before they HATED logging in after they completed their initial storyline. They HATED HoT. (My kids play League and twitch games more often then mmo's. They disliked HoT because they found all of the maps annoying, the mini-map was completely useless in trying to figure out where someone was in most of the maps. They found the constant meta annoying especially when they were trying to get map completion and they didn't enjoy repeating the content, they didn't feel like there was any real progression etc). With PoF they have found they can choose to join in a fight or not they have more choices. They can continue completing a map without annoying things getting in the way. There's no one yelling in map at people who are trying to complete one of the Hero Points that the "map meta needs help" etc... None of this is of course relevant to this discussion but it's something that they've commented on multiple times and I think it was the content in HoT and the way it was "put together" that annoyed a certain group of players more than others. I'm not convinced it was raiding, I was initially interested in raiding but like I said 4 hours of fail and I decided there were better things I could do with my time.

True, unless they are running a class and build which you have no chance of beating even if they were rolling their face on their keyboard singing "I'm a little teapot" (or you for that case). Again, it's different types of skill involved. No one is denying that spvp has more dynamic due to the very nature of both sides having a human element, what does happen though in high competitive play is the same as in most other competitive games:you learn what and how to counter your opponent you learn when to use skills and patience to not burn critical skills to earlyyou make modifications to your build or change classyou repeat this process x amount of times while fine tuning ityou hit your natural skill cap before beating your opponent thus never being able to succeed or you eventually overcome him Notice how I could write the exact same process for raid bosses. The fact that different players have varying skill levels is insignificant. The actual fights between similar classes with similar builds have a set amount of possible outcomes and will eventually mimic each other at higher skill levels. Again this is not me bashing spvp players or the skill involved because getting that good at your class with sufficient knowledge certainly takes time and practice but let's not pretend like every fight is a unique encounter with a huge skill ceiling to overcome. Much of spvp is practice and repetition as well as game sense. When you are good at spvp and stomp 90% of the players you face (not accounting for playing an overpowered class) most of those fights were nothing special or dynamic besides you going through 1-2 more skills or not. No amount of pve dps or whatever else rotation will make you a better WvW or PvP player, sorry. I am not buying that. It is one thing to burn through a PvE boss, and learn what it does, it is quite another to know where to stand in a blob, what to cast and when, which defensive utilities to use and when, to predict where you will burst depending on your warrior's bubbles/comm movement. Same is with pvp. No amount of PvE will teach you this. PvE skills/traits/utilities vary greatly in pvp or wvw. Raids make people better PvE players in instanced content, which is to be expected ( the brain is an amazing organ which can learn fast). But against human enemies? I have serious doubt about this. Knowing your skills, is one thing. Knowing why/when to cast meteor shower and summon a lightning hammer, press 4 for max dmg output against a raid boss is fine. Wont work in other gamemodes. Sometimes, you have to sacrifice dps for CC (all classes CC in wvw or pvp, in raids they dont), you have to AoE a different spot for your teammates to corner the enemy. No, raids dont teach you this.Agreed... I completely agree with you here. The abilities learned in PVE are not transferable to WvW. The build paths in WvW alone make that abundantly clear and then the different skill trees etc. All classes have CC and all of them have to know when to use their heals/escapes etc.. PVE doesn't require you to even touch your escapes in fact most people don't even use them.

True, unless they are running a class and build which you have no chance of beating even if they were rolling their face on their keyboard singing "I'm a little teapot" (or you for that case). Again, it's different types of skill involved. No one is denying that spvp has more dynamic due to the very nature of both sides having a human element, what does happen though in high competitive play is the same as in most other competitive games:you learn what and how to counter your opponent you learn when to use skills and patience to not burn critical skills to earlyyou make modifications to your build or change classyou repeat this process x amount of times while fine tuning ityou hit your natural skill cap before beating your opponent thus never being able to succeed or you eventually overcome him Notice how I could write the exact same process for raid bosses. The fact that different players have varying skill levels is insignificant. The actual fights between similar classes with similar builds have a set amount of possible outcomes and will eventually mimic each other at higher skill levels. Again this is not me bashing spvp players or the skill involved because getting that good at your class with sufficient knowledge certainly takes time and practice but let's not pretend like every fight is a unique encounter with a huge skill ceiling to overcome. Much of spvp is practice and repetition as well as game sense. When you are good at spvp and stomp 90% of the players you face (not accounting for playing an overpowered class) most of those fights were nothing special or dynamic besides you going through 1-2 more skills or not. No amount of pve dps or whatever else rotation will make you a better WvW or PvP player, sorry. I am not buying that. It is one thing to burn through a PvE boss, and learn what it does, it is quite another to know where to stand in a blob, what to cast and when, which defensive utilities to use and when, to predict where you will burst depending on your warrior's bubbles/comm movement. Same is with pvp. No amount of PvE will teach you this. PvE skills/traits/utilities vary greatly in pvp or wvw. Raids make people better PvE players in instanced content, which is to be expected ( the brain is an amazing organ which can learn fast). But against human enemies? I have serious doubt about this. Knowing your skills, is one thing. Knowing why/when to cast meteor shower and summon a lightning hammer, press 4 for max dmg output against a raid boss is fine. Wont work in other gamemodes. Sometimes, you have to sacrifice dps for CC (all classes CC in wvw or pvp, in raids they dont), you have to AoE a different spot for your teammates to corner the enemy. No, raids dont teach you this. Playing raids isn't going to turn you into a God of PvP and doing actual PvP will be far better from improving your PvP skills, but just playing the game in areas where you are challenged will do things like improve your ability to move intelligently, zoning damage and AoE, and reaction speed. Umm... Not really, playing in WvW will fix all of those problems pretty quickly... Big hint: Red circles are bad. But seriously, I disagree you learn all of those skills from playing WvW much faster because the entire situation is far more fluid than raids and far more unpredictable. I can do a LOT in 4 hours and I learned far more about positioning than I ever learned in PVE content period. Reaction speed, AOE ranges, where to move and zones... All of those I learned faster in WvW than I ever learned in PVE. Playing against other players who were playing the same class also taught me faster than I could ever have learned from any PVE boss ever. I die less often then I did when I started playing WvW, but that doesn't always translate over to PVE. I have different builds and tolerances for class on PVE vs when I play WvW so I'm tankier in WvW than I am in PVE and the burn ratio is different as a result.

Surprisingly, yes. I'm FAR better player now than I was before I started to raid. I'm not only better at executing team tactics that let me focus entirely on dps. I'm also much better at maintaining decent damage output in sub-optimal conditions. Which makes me better at handling mobs on my own, doing damage in WvW and probably PvP, if I played that. I have much better understanding of my class and I react much faster, and much more accurately. And all thanks to raiding. Because there's no other content that pushes me to improve as much as raids.I'm guessing you don't do much roaming then? I got better playing WvW and roaming more than anything PVE offered. I learned each of the classes I played had escapes (never touched them in PVE). The skills I learned in PVE did not translate at all to WvW and the skills I learned in WvW aren't working very well in PVE. Sure some of it is fine (knowing how to burn a boss is a bit easier) but many of the mechanics I use daily (Blood Scourge) are just not useful in PVE at all. Memorization of rotations aren't useful when you're in a dynamic fight, you have to know what to do and how to change things when you play in WvW, that just isn't the same in PVE. In PVE it's pretty much "timing, cc, burn" not really much else. Sure there might be added steps but the dynamic pretty much stays true. WvW has a lot more elements and they don't transfer. Also, I'd argue that "damage output" in a wvw raid isn't always as important as positioning, knowing when to back up and when to push, how to rotate around or split the other group in half etc... Knowing where you should be standing (ie near a firebrand or a scourge or an ele etc) knowing what to blow up and who not to bother to hit in a fight is a nuance that you just don't learn in PVE.

You are saying that Living World episodes shouldn't have exclusive rewards? The general desire in the thread from easy mode advocates is that raids should have story so everyone can see it and that all items in the game should be available from a reward track style feature that fills up no matter what style of content you're playing so you can always just play your favorite content. That's bad design actually. It encourages grind and it burns out players faster. GW2 takes the opposite approach - it encourages players to play different kinds of content using exclusive rewards. Open world, personal story, instanced content, pvp modes, they all have their own goodies which encourage you to try new stuff. It's by far the better way to structure your rewards.Except that there shouldn't be "the super shiniest of the shinies" for the group of people who rarely change their builds... I mean seriously, and there should be multiple types of armor and there should be multiple ways to get it. Each of the different modes should have a short-term commitment to try the content out but not something that requires you to grind it. Which is precisely what I'm objecting to. I don't want to team with 10 random people in an encounter with a boss that can and has wasted over 4 hours to maybe complete it and then have to do it again over and over. If there were a training mode I might give it a try again, but 4 hours of constantly failing without any idea why? Nope. Not happening. I would rather go repair a keep or take a tower or defend a camp etc.. I could see having people go in for a component to something like other Legendaries have you do but I don't think you should have to spend the WHOLE TIME in that mode. I could do it for a component and I would do it for a component but for every single piece of armor? No thanks. And the compounding irritation is that the "coolest skins" go to PVE even though the majority of the builds are stagnant.

GW2 doesn't need WvW. But if a lot of people like WvW I don't see any harm in giving incentives to people who haven't tried it yet to do so. Like if WvW was literally nothing but a handful of people only working on the Gift of Battle and then never ever entering WvW again I'd agree. There's a difference though, WvW is required only for a single component. It's not the whole thing, you don't have to play WvW after you get Gift of Battle... You don't have to keep doing the content after you get it (you can if you want to). Raids require you to keep doing the content to get it.

Thanks! I've taken to warning people when I'm near a chest just so people are aware it's a known bug and that should it happen to them to keep completing the daily anyways.

Isn't it? I mean seriously why does PVE get the "shiniest of the shiny" for the tiny amount of builds that they actually use? I would very much like some nice looking Legendary Armor, it would be cool if after every few 100 levels you got something that would change the look of the armor... But seriously, WvW Legendary armor is really boring...

But that's a content you came to enjoy. Was there never content in the game that you never enjoyed? Like I said, I agree with the idea that content can draw you to an area, there can be portions that require you to spend a little time doing a specific thing, and if you really enjoy it, then great, you can keep doing it. If you really don't enjoy it though, especially if the goal takes months to earn, then they should let you do something else instead. But none of what you describe could be compared at all to raiding. You describe minor inconveniences and half-week grinds, when what we're talking about is a multi-month grind of very complex and deliberately annoying content. Apples and oranges. But again, that can be accomplished with a short term goal, it doesn't require a long term one. Why is it good for the game for WvW to be a thing, in the abstract? If people don't want to do it, why should they have to? Is it worth spending developer resources on the mode if people only do it because the developers bribe them into it? Wouldn't it just be better if players didn't play that mode, and instead those resources were spent on the content they actually wanted to play? Existing WVW players (and indeed all potential players) need long term goals, so Anet added them to wvw to fill the gap. WVW already had a ton of short term goals. Other players got attracted to WVW as a result as the overall content package became more attractive.And it's SO much more fun (in my opinion). But they really need to fix our Legendary armor... It's just depressing.

Why is it good for the game for WvW to be a thing, in the abstract? If people don't want to do it, why should they have to? Is it worth spending developer resources on the mode if people only do it because the developers bribe them into it? Wouldn't it just be better if players didn't play that mode, and instead those resources were spent on the content they actually wanted to play? WvW is actually a LOT of fun, and I wouldn't ever have tried it had it not been for gift of Battle. In fact it's become my absolute favorite game mode after I tried it. They created a really good thing and you're saying that they shouldn't introduce others to playing it? WvW doesn't require a months long commitment for some they can get the reward track doing very simple things, building siege and protecting a base. Killing the sentry's and taking back camps/escorting yaks. Those aren't big time commitments and move you through the track relatively quickly. In fact it was doing exactly those things (and taking keeps/repairing keeps) that got me hooked on the game mode to begin with. I LOVE the aspect of putting together things, going and taking over things etc. I have played other games like that and enjoyed them but I didn't know that's what WvW was... I thought it was going to be simply PvP and I was burned out on PvP from playing League of Legends (5 man forced teams with various skills and usually someone throwing a fit and being outright toxic... NOT my favorite way to spend an afternoon playing). If there had been a good description of it I would had tried it sooner. Being forced to step into it with Gift of Battle not only did it finish Gift of Battle I became hooked on it and joined a WvW guild. I'd been in PVE guilds but had no one to talk to or communicate with etc... Being part of WvW was so much better. So no, I disagree completely that taste of WvW hooked me and I don't really play PVE anymore. I was already bored with PVE since there really wasn't much in the way interesting repeatable content. The encounters were always the same and some of the toons I played handled certain encounters better than others. I got to the point I'd log in do a daily and log out after map completion (HoT, and PoF maps included) on 4 toons, I had 4 others that I was starting to do it with just so that I could farm but I found it tedious and boring at that point..... Then I discovered WvW, I log in everyday and play for hours but it doesn't FEEL like I've been playing for hours. Sure the Maps are a bit stagnant but the actual gameplay is not. The encounters are always different because you're facing an entire server (sometimes linked server) full of other players from around the world. The Build paths are inventive. People actually TEST builds in WvW because you CAN they are VIABLE... PVE? It's the same thing over and over. The only time PVE changes their build Path is when Zerkers or Condi gets a nerf then they switch between the two. Unless you're a Druid or a Mesmer. Sure the Runes change (sort of) but overall it's the same thing and it's boring to me. I would be miserable playing the game had I not discovered WvW. I still go into PVE and try new things (usually playing with my kids or my husband or my other family members but when they're not logged in I'm in WvW). I still enjoyed going and completing the Achievements in the 2 Living World Episodes but the "bored" time is gone. I have something that is actively interesting to me now and I would never have known about it had I not been "forced" to go into WvW.

Ok.. so.. lets say they add a reward track to PvE players, once a player maxes their mastery line, they can start a Reward Track, like the WvW and sPvP reward track, this would allow them to unlock the skins for content they have not directly done. Then they add in all the skins, Armor, Weapons, Back Items, all of it.. from all content, to these reward tracks. They also add in Reward Tracks for all Gifts, and all methods to obtain all Legendary Loot, one parcel at a time via a Reward Track. This would resolve the whole issue with content locked skins, as long as a player was willing to grind out their mastery line, and grind out the reward track. Would that make you happy.. as I see it.. I think it would be a perfect solution.. and I can't imagine a Casual player getting upset that a Raider can opt to get Avocados in Bulk, if they did a specific Heart Vendor Reward Track. I don't think anyone would care if they could trade their raid tokens in for exotic skins etc.. In fact more power to them. It'd be fair if they gave them a token/exchanger which would let them trade those tokens to get whatever it was that they wanted/needed. I for one wouldn't care. It's an exotic, the stats don't change they're just a skin... (or materials etc) But like I said, I don't want their armor skin, I want a different armor skin for each mode (and I want a nicer one for mine because ours is just unoriginal period). I also don't want to raid to get Trinkets, or really anything. I wouldn't mind learning to raid if there was a training mode (as mentioned previously) but the way it is currently, no thanks. I want each play-style to get their own Legendaries. Sure I might have to go to a location I'm not a fan of for a small period of time to complete something for the Legendary (that's fair) but I shouldn't have to hard to commit to a specific mode to get a Legendary period. Legendaries should be for ALL play-styles not just 1.

I don't want LI's and I don't care that Raiders got a specialized Legendary Skin... What I do care about is that there are no other options for those Legendary skins AND that they added a Legendary Trinket to the Raids on top of that. I wouldn't care if there were multiple types of Legendary armors/Trinkets (like there are multiple weapons) different modes in PVE and of course different tiers in PvP and WvW. I wouldn't get so upset about the Legendary Trinkets either if there were multiple ways to get them. I liked doing the Open World stuff to get the Aurora, I refuse to raid to get the next one and I find it unfair that on top of getting the shiniest armor skin in the game, they then threw in a Trinket too. WvW doesn't have a Trinket yet and carrying around 5 different ascended trinkets is annoying. (I'm down to 4 thanks to Aurora) I don't want to have to raid to get something that I find useful for playing WvW. I want there to be alternatives to that in WvW or elsewhere. Legendary Items should NOT be locked behind a single mode period. They are not Exotics they are Legendaries and as such they should be for everyone. Which means there should be different skins for different modes. There needs to be Legendary Trinkets for Fractals, WvW, PvP and Open World on top of Raids. There needs to be Legendary Armor for Fractals, Open world, (better skins) for WvW and Pvp. There should also be Legendary Back pieces too... (I have to admit the one for WvW was pretty nice, but it really doesn't go with the exotic/ascended/Legendary... Seriously they should have had different skins for each instead of copying the exact same skin 2 more times). We have the Legendary Weapons and they're pretty cool but seriously... Why not more Legendary armor (we keep getting more weapon skins after all). And to reiterate, I HATE the WvW skins but, that's probably because they are the most meh I've ever seen. They look exactly like the exotics and the ascended's ALSO look exactly like the exotics.. They are incredibly boring and someone could have done a better job. In fact pretty much every mode outside of WvW gets some pretty nice skins, it would be nice if that were to change. But to bring this back to the original topic, there would be less frustrated players if Legendaries were for everyone not locked behind 1 mode. There really should be MORE Legendaries not less.

You're comparing apples to oranges here... Legendaries have an actual use and aren't Exotics. They are NOT absolutely NOT anything like exotics and therefore can't be compared to exotic skins period. They give the ability to have multiple stats which give you the chance to change your build on the fly. I don't want to raid to get a Legendary Trinket and I resent the idea that PVE (raiders) get the epic most shiniest of shiny skins when the majority of the classes only use 2 builds period in PVE. (Yes, Druids and Mes's can go up to 4 builds but the rest of the classes are either Zerkers or Condi and it only goes between the two)... WvW and PvP on the other hand have LOTS of builds and the build styles change depending on the patch or how many are playing at the time (server time/coverage time). If it's a low population point then you're running Roaming gear not Zerg/Blob gear. If you're in a peak moment then you switch out the gear for zerg/blob gear (support or DPS based on class). PVE? Not really much in the way of different builds. Exotics you can't change their stats... You get exactly what their stats are no choices period. You have to make Ascended's and if you want to stat change you have to make pieces to fix the stats and then go to the Mystic Forge to make those changes. So if you don't have a Legendary and you're playing WvW you either have to go to your bank and pull out the changed gear OR you carry it in your bag. Neither of which is super convenient. Legendaries just require you to be out of combat. There really is NO comparison. So yeah, go ahead and get annoyed that you had to play Living Worlds Season 3 for a Legendary Trinket and then got the shiniest of the shiny Legendary Armor and a Trinket on top of that. Yet, you use what 2 builds total? I wouldn't care if there were MORE Legendary armors offered for different groups (ie everyone who wants to do their thing gets Legendary Armor/Trinkets for their preferred way of playing) just like Exotics are found in every type of content too. I want every single play-style to get Legendary items (all the types: Trinkets, armor, weapons etc). News Flash: I also don't want the Legendary armor to look like clones of Raid armor either.. They should have their own unique look to them. But Legendary Armor is NOT the same thing as an Exotic Skin and comparing the two is a bit insulting, in fact insisting that they are even comparable is a bit insulting. I'd like a nice shiney skin to go with my WvW Legendary Armor.. Instead mine is kinda "meh" (look it up, it's looks EXACTLY like the exotic Triumphant armor skin)... It would be super cool if they'd give us skins based on our tier or our achievements etc that would make it a lot nicer and then people could say "Hey look, that's the WvW skin for tier (insert tier here etc).. Instead ours is a "meh" skin. Yet I'm pretty sure I get more out of mine since I'm changing out my build based on what I need at the time in my preferred mode. I don't get Legendary Trinkets in my preferred mode, I had to do the Open World content and there's no way I'm doing Raids on top of that... At the same time I do NOT want to carry 5 different trinkets around in my bags just to change them out when I need to switch my build from roaming to zerging and vice versa... As stated: I want fair treatment for all play-styles and locking the Legendary content behind 1 mode is unfair period.

Honestly, I think the Easy Mode Raid thing would die if Anet came to terms with the concept that Legendary Armor is NOT the equivalent of Exotic Armor and accepted that they need to give more choices to get it. They should have multiple types of Legendary armor, some for people who only do Fractals like you said. Some for people who prefer Open World Content or for people who don't have the time/etc to do instanced content and then some for WvW and PvP (preferably with much cooler skins because the ones we got just suck). Though I would settle for being able to earn cool skins for my Legendary Armor through tiers (that would be awesome!). I think the problem is that the assumption is that they will keep Raids having Legendary Armor (which is what they said currently) and they are trying to find ways to work within that to be able to get Legendary Armor. If Anet would change that stance or offer other Legendary Armor sets then this might change. I would personally love to see a training mode raid module invented that would teach you the mechanics without the wiping. Then I might be interested in trying raiding again but until that's an option I have zero interest in raiding. I'll stick to instant feedback from WvW (which this weekend is going to be fun! No downed states and double wvw xp and reward tracks going up so those who need Gift of Battle this is your weekend).

And continually asking for those things might have the effect of them getting implemented eventually... If people just stop asking then they view it as no longer an issue. You mean easy mode raids? Yes, you're right most people aren't even bothering with the concept. A) They have only 2 armor classes that really matter for the majority of character classes (Zerkers or Condi), B) They don't want to raid because they don't want to spend 4 hours failing and don't want to be called names or have toxicity thrown at them for not knowing what to do. (Pretty reasonable things) Having other alternatives for Legendary Armor? That comes up a lot. In fact it's a pretty big topic of conversation in my WvW guild (along with, why is our Legendary Armor pathetic compared to the raiders, why do they even need epic shinies it's not like they have any exciting build paths in PVE anyways?) Oh and the more recent one that comes up a lot "Why they did they have a Legendary Trinket added to RAID ONLY content?" Along with "Seriously, this is getting old". That of course isn't the only thing that comes up, quite a few of us are tired of how WvW tiers are currently based more on server size and coverage vs skill etc or the lack of any reason to want to get to the higher tiers because there's no real reward other than going to the tier... But that's more for the WvW forum then this one. This forum is directly discussing Easy Mode Raiding and of course content being locked behind Raiding. Which probably SHOULD have it's own thread. I would be interested in training mode raiding (the whole reason I even looked at this thread). I also think that having Legendary Items locked behind instanced content is wrong. Which is pretty much what I have asserted throughout this thread. I do not want to raid as it is currently, I would like to actually have a training mode where I can drag some other people who have never raided and have it show me what needs to be done rather then have some random person try to teach an entire group (or we try to figure it out alone). I was hoping that was the general idea of the thread and I liked some of proposals thrown out along the way (when they were actively thinking about how to create something cool like training mode). What I didn't like in this thread? People calling others lazy for wanting shinies but not wanting to raid. People telling others that they didn't want to "work" for the shinies etc... Or people comparing Legendary items to Exotics and thinking that they should be treated the same. I want another Legendary Trinket, I do NOT want to raid for it. I want the Trinket because I have to change stats based on the server population at the time while I'm playing WvW and I don't want to carry 5 different trinkets in my inventory at all times to do it that's just too much inventory space. I want a nice epically looking shiney Legendary Armor too, rather than the kinda boring/drab one WvW gave us. I don't think comparing WvW to Raiding works (both require completely different mechanics etc) but it bothers me that the PVE group gets the shiniest of the shinies and looks down on everyone else for wanting shinies too. So yeah that bothers me and I'm going to speak up about it because it's irritating.