RabbitUp.8294
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Posts posted by RabbitUp.8294
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1 hour ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:
So a support that cannot give out the one buff that is truly desired from a support? Yeah I dunno I think that kind of sucks.
Desired in pve. There are other game modes.
Also, you can totally take a support herald in raids and hard carry the group, which most pugs should be doing, instead of trying to copy speedrunners and wipping.
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On 9/25/2021 at 7:56 PM, Infusion.7149 said:
Sure, if you consider the barrier which has poor scaling (1550+0.5* healing power barrier and heal , so with 1500 healing power about 2.3K of barrier and healing). It really isn't a support because you don't have reliable burst healing without Ventari and a staff. It's similar to using Sand Cascade on scourges or a shout on a tactics warrior not specced for heals.
A one dodge barrier on impact where you can still be hit while in the air is not a suitable healing spec. The alliance skills , other than the meme urn which is a potential death sentence, all have 0.22 heal coefficients (i.e. 1500 heal power = added 330 healing) with below 800 base heals.
I hope vindicator gets more DPS focused, as it is now it is only openworld PVE spec at best ( 5 target cleave GS): from what I've seen people haven't been able to break 31K on the PVE golem either. You'd think with two power weapons (GS has higher coefficients vs multiple targets) it should be able to do better than herald or renegade so probably the longer cooldown skills could have some damage added and the damage dodge can give more raw damage (not damage modifier) as a tradeoff for the long airborne duration.
At the very least it can be made similar to alacrity renegade before soulcleave nerf but with offensive/defensive boons (might, stability, vigor, protection on Awakening or with the Vassals of the Empire dodge, resistance are all accessible on core rev anyway) and less potential heals.
Revenant's healing potential is in the % outgoing healing modifiers they can stack. Vindicator can reach like 120% in healing gear, so that 2.3k healing is actually 5k. Every 3-4 seconds.
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Currently it feels like they started with a heal skill, but added self-damage to balance it, then added damage reduction to balance the self damage. To the point that the skill moved away from what it was meant to be.
I kinda think they should go all the way and make it a channel, so you can't do other actions while "carrying" the urn. With the -10 upkeep cost, you don't want to use other skills anyway, or it will run out in 2 seconds. Reduce the health cost, move the damage reduction, and the missing health scaling gimmick, and have the urn drop be an AoE barrier + regen.
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The babyrage is real.
It feels like some people in this thread only tried the damage dodge. That one is bad, especially in pve, the other two are fine.
2 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:Well the thing is it's not even a long evade. It appears that the evade frames last only as long as a regular dodge. After that you take full damage and CC WHILE STUCK in limbo. Garbage garbage garbage. How did that make it into beta? This feels nothing like beta, maybe an alpha? The mechanics are so bad they don't just need fixing, they need a rework.
That's what you call a bug. The mechanics don't need a rework, they need to work the way they are supposed to.
2 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:Anet has this weird obsession with giving one-dodges (i.e our Mirage) and allowing some others to roam around with a hundred evades no shade but shade. Haven't played the new Vindi and never will but when I was out in WvW last night, it was really easy to pick them off because once they used their 'skyfall', energy sigil and then used it again, they pretty much were sitting ducks, this was for both ally and enemies alike.
So just like every other class who used all their dodges? Truly insightful.
Having two dodges means you start the fight with exactly one (1) more dodge, it doesn't mean you always have a dodge available.
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Less birthday presents for you 🥲
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The flip skill to GS 4 (block) feels bugged. Occasionally it starts the animation but nothing happens, no damage, and the skill flips back to the block.
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40 minutes ago, Aravind.9610 said:
I am a bit confused on this since I never played Daredevil, but does Sigil of Energy restore 75 endurance when your maximum is 150?
No, it's always 50. Same with Sigil of Stamina, always 100.
8 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:What people fails to notice is that energy sigils are along cleansing sigils amongst the most used ones in WvW/PvP, so using them doesn't "even the field" against characters with two dodges, only puts you near the common baseline at which everyone starts, and obviously other players using them are in clear advantage.
Another funny thing is how much a single weakness stack will wreck the whole theorycrafting house of cards which is the "let's gain vigor/endurance ASAP to compensate the handicap". My roamer Renegade, as an example (short bow + staff, tb + vipers, Shiro & Jalis) literally perspires weakness: Enchanted Daggers, Planar Protection, Mender's Rebuke, Surge of the Mist, Jade Winds, Scorchrazor, Soothing Stone, Forced Engagement, Inspiring Reinforcement... The weakness from half of those skills last from 4.75 to 5.25 seconds at WvW with my current stats, so there's no way a Vindicator would able to engage 1 on 1 without being engulfed in weakness.
Personally I'll try the Alliance a bit but the only WvW build I can see to "work" (and by work I mean being clearly subpar) would be greatsword + hammer, Shiro + Jalis with Retribution and Invocation. A pure glass cannon designed to die in a blaze of glory...
But weakness affects everyone equally. Vindicator is not like mirage that uses their dodge for a large portion of their damage.
Only difference is that vindi start the fight with 1 less dodge, that's it, but as soon as they use F2 once, even that handicap is gone.
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What we should focus on are the mechanical aspects of the spec. The damage will have to be seen in practice, and even if it's underperforming in pve, that doesn't mean it won't be buffed/changed.
15 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:Yeah dude is not like you have to dodge whenever the commander gives the order.
Dodging isn't about avoiding CC (stab does this) or blocking dmg (aegis does this).
It's about a quick change of direction ; fake push ; corridor crossing ; etc.
If you waste your stab, aegis or invul on those moves, then they're gone for the real fight time.
But maybe you are speaking about brainless bot, trying to zerg but without stacking on the tag or following orders on vocal.If you pick the 50 endurance dodge, you are fine. You will be able to dodge as often as everyone else, more often if you count all the endurance management tools. You can even double dodge with F2, even though from what we've seen, vindicator's dodge lasts longer and covers more distance by default, so double dodging isn't needed.
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We don't know how swapping would, they never showed it on stream. If I had to guess, the skills stay flipped between swaps.
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21 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:
You can still compare values between skills shown. Also he got might during a skill which allowed some calculations. Gs2 had a 2k tooltip. The damage dodge had 2,5 and spear 2,4. 3rd gs aa 1,379. Thats why im confident to say that dodge will be a dps loss unless tooltips were wrong or skills got buffed after. You have to stay inside 5 enemies to get might, doesnt really work with hammer burst.
You only get the 15% mod after dodging. very bad idea in pvp on a glass build. The saving grace could be shown pvp values while pve would have way higher values. Still would be a 0cc spec which almost instantly disqualifies it from most instanced pve unless it does 40k+ dps. A low cd low energy cost skill with high damage is also extremely bad. Gs2 is such a skill and it promotes camping gs and only spaming that skill. Very boring and bad design.
That's not how it works. You can't compare skills when you don't know how much power he had on.
Different skills scale differently with power. You can't say that the elite will always do 50% more damage than gs2. If it has a large coefficient like CMC said, then the gap will increase for large amounts of power.
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On 9/18/2021 at 3:35 AM, Zenith.7301 said:
When are you using Chilled to the Bone over flesh golem in PvE? NEVER. 2 sec stun and some small duration chill in exchange for nearly three times the cooldown of flesh golem, which does more CC bar damage, the main reason any of these elites would ever be used.
You just countered your own argument. Like you said, CttB has all these other problems that have nothing to do with target scaling. It could give 100 stacks of stability, and it would still be a subpar skill for pve.
QuoteAnd Vindicator greatsword has not a lot more going for it. It has exactly 2 DPS skills just like staff, the others are mobility/defensive skills with no PvE relevance.
Skill 2 has 3s cd, you don't need another dps skill.
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8 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:
How can the new e-spe be pvp oriented ?
Only one dodge and it is very telegraphed. Which means, other player will avoid it and then, they will know you can't evade anymore. Big time to put you down.
It's even worse for WvW. How can you survive in WvW with only one dodge ?Pick the bottom Master (vigor gives 75% end regen)
Take resolution (minor 25% end regen)
Enjoy 100% increased endurance regen
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3 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:
Prob gonna call it Vindi 'cause it sounds cute.
Veni vidi vici
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16 minutes ago, Impling.4170 said:
Unfortunately I don't think Cal showed his equipment. Not sure what gear he's wearing.
2k tooltip damage is massive, full zerk build sword 2 is 2k, sword 5 is 2.5k And the auto damage seems on par with sword.
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50 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:
main problem from stream with this spec...no sustain..
basically berserker level sustain.. aka core war with one less weapon set for sustain.
10k heal on a 20s cd?
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3 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:
Yes. 1 second group stability is going to make all the difference. I think I have had enough copium for the day.
How does the duration matter? You know stability gets consumed like aegis, right?
A raid boss like Gorseval does his knockdown attack, use the skill right before.
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Those are some chonky autoattacks, and 3s cooldown on skill 2 with that kind of damage? Oh boi
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5 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:
Like it or not you will be competing with classes that brings more utility with little compromise in any group setting and will be discriminated against accordingly.
No, you won't, you will be competing based on dps. Again you are focusing on the utility supports bring.
So far we saw two new quickness supports in EoD. If a team would want to replace FB with one of them, it makes it a lot easier if a dps spec brings 5 condi cleanse and stability.
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1 hour ago, Drael.2015 said:
Look at spellbreaker. Launched to very little fanfare and it never really made it in any game modes. How often do you see people playing that class? WB is going to be dead on arrival without big changes and Anet haven't shown much attention to fixing old specs in the past. I don't have high hopes for much changing.
Spellbreaker literally changed wvw, it was the repeated nerfs to the spec and core warrior that made it disappear from all game modes.
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5 hours ago, Poledra Val.1490 said:
Anyone else notice today how Willbender has the most trade offs in its traits so far. Meanwhile the new 3 specs we saw revealed today didnt have a single trade off in there traits.
Warrior loses a weapon set, revenant loses a dodge.
It's ele that didn't have a trade off.
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1 hour ago, Heinel.6548 said:
Nope. merely having stab share is not going to allow you to replace an FB, who can already 10man stab plus a never ending list of other utilities plus heals. You are also going to significantly reduce your own damage potential if you bring the heal dodge and use it often, as the animation is super long and you are not doing damage while it happens, so you are doing downstate DPS for significant amount of time. At that point you are just trying to do both and failing at both.
High healing output means nothing at high level pve.
The reason FB and druid can't be replaced isn't because they have amazing healing output. In fact both of them are quite below anything a tempest or ventari rev can do. But healing is really the least of what they do anyway. If you have actually raided, you'll know the druid build for raiding isn't a build at all. Their traits and skills change drastically from encounter to encounter and they can cover every mechanic in the game. Those are mechanics you can't simply heal away. That's why they're always there. FB is in the meta because they are multiple roles combined into one. Every raid group has a list of things they require to succeed, and when one person can check half the boxes, it gives you options, it allows you to carry the group. Vindicators at it's current iteration doesn't have any tools that would allow them to challenge any of the incumbents. Heck, even banner warriors provide unique buff that no other class can provide, cementing them a spot regardless of what happens. And you know what's worse? Vindicators can't even compete with renegades who can provide 10man alacrity allowing a bit of role compression.
I sure hope they can do something amazing in the other game modes, or it's a dead spec on arrival.
Who said anything about replacing FB? You are playing as a dps that can also share stability for free. It's part of the legend your were going to use anyway.
You are judging this as a support spec, I'm talking dps. If you want to share boons, you have herald for defense and renegade for offense.
It can play similar to scourge, a mainly dps class that still has group utility. As for the dodge, you are not going to purposefully dodge spam, but in real fights and not golem rotations, you will have to dodge eventually and when you do, you will help your team. The only other option is to take the 150 endurance dodge that gives a damage buff, but that's 15% damage and the animation seemed the longest of the three, so I don't think it will make sense to try to maintain that buff.
Anyway, no point in trying to theorise the damage potential without access to the spec.
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Core legends get a different F2 that's basically just the energy into endurance transfer.
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What do reaper shouts have to do with any of this? The only scaling on those are on Rise and the cd reduction on the trait.
Also, you mention GS and Meteor Shower. The problem with staff is that Meteor Shower and Lava Font is all it was good for. Vin greatsword has a lot more going for it.
Just wait for the beta and the benchmarks, no point discussing theoretical pve dps based on the stream.
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36 minutes ago, Heinel.6548 said:
It looks like the build should function decently as cleave power DPS which currently feels a void in the revenant toolkit. But the support stuff that is tagged on to the spec seems out of place and to be frank, not very useful. Yeah, the potential healing output is ridiculous, but that's not anything ventari can't already do. Another massive heals little utility spec isn't gonna give revenants a place in the support line up. So, why even have those redundant skills that require the player to press a button to shoo away just to do their DPS rotation?
I saw some pretty good stuff in the kit, even for a dps. Sharing stability to allies is great for certain mechanics, and you get it for free without having to go into Jalis. You also get a 3500 aoe heal which is nice, the support dodge is very good and it only costs 50, so everytime you dodge you give heals+barrier.
Saintgaroo or Bunny Saint build is Support Meta in WvW
in Revenant
Posted · Edited by RabbitUp.8294
The whole point of this discussion is the healing dodge, how are you getting that on herald or renegade?
And you are wrong anyway, since vindicator gets 20% more outgoing healing, and more sources of healing. Herald only gets a regen trait, and renegade gets a legend that doesn't work outside of pve and no supportive traits.