ArenaNet, please make choices more easy from multi item boxes / recipes

[Sevetamryn.2974]

Hi,

 

What I miss is tool tips / stats preview in choice boxes / recipes ... not only once i selected the wrong armor class from a box /recipe book. However, this from S1E2 brings it just to the point - how to make a choice?

the choice from the head gear box after finishing the 10 events in Bloodtide Coast is:

- Aether Visor

- Aether Visor

- Aether Visor

 

aehm, yeah, well .... make a educated guess ...

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aether_Visor

Unlocking one skin unlocks the other two.  Choose Heavy, Medium or Light.  (The higher the Defense, the heavier the armor.)

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

also it quiet literally says in the drop down tool tip which armor class it is

[Sevetamryn.2974]

On 5/27/2022 at 12:38 AM, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

also it quiet literally says in the drop down tool tip which armor class it is

no, it does not!

[Sevetamryn.2974]

On 5/26/2022 at 9:56 PM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aether_Visor

Unlocking one skin unlocks the other two.  Choose Heavy, Medium or Light.  (The higher the Defense, the heavier the armor.)

There is no tool tip, no description, no rating in the select box. And yes, you get all 3 skins, but only the Visor (light, med, heavy) you select. And b.t.w. there are many of similar boxes, and the order (light, med, heavy) from top to down is not even consistent in the game. Sometime light is the 1st option, sometimes heavy is the 1st option.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Did you preview the contents of the box? 

[Sevetamryn.2974]

6 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Did you preview the contents of the box? 

 

preview? how to? You can select an that's it ... if there is a preview, than it is still bad UI design ...

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Right click, choose preview. 

I certainly previewed all three items. 

[Sevetamryn.2974]

On 5/29/2022 at 12:37 AM, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

 

preview? how to? You can select an that's it ... if there is a preview, than it is still bad UI design ...

 

Well, why I think it is still bad UI design if there is a preview option, I just did not find ...

• well, obviously, I was not able to find it, and I'm not alone with this
• usually you have mouse over tooltips / preview nearly everywhere in the game, not here
• usually you can shift-click nearly everything in game to have the item in chat for easy wiki access, not here
• and well, 3 different items with same name, that's special 😉

 

[Tanek.5983]

On 5/26/2022 at 2:07 PM, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

Hi,

What I miss is tool tips / stats preview in choice boxes / recipes ... not only once i selected the wrong armor class from a box /recipe book. However, this from S1E2 brings it just to the point - how to make a choice?

the choice from the head gear box after finishing the 10 events in Bloodtide Coast is:

- Aether Visor
- Aether Visor
- Aether Visor

aehm, yeah, well .... make a educated guess ...

 

On 5/26/2022 at 6:38 PM, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

also it quiet literally says in the drop down tool tip which armor class it is

On 5/28/2022 at 8:22 AM, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

no, it does not!

 

On 5/28/2022 at 8:28 AM, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

There is no tool tip, no description, no rating in the select box. And yes, you get all 3 skins, but only the Visor (light, med, heavy) you select. And b.t.w. there are many of similar boxes, and the order (light, med, heavy) from top to down is not even consistent in the game. Sometime light is the 1st option, sometimes heavy is the 1st option.

Ok, so, to be clear, you are saying that when you hover your mouse over the options, you DO NOT get a tooltip like shown here?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/823613716762984498/980930747370192976/unknown.png

If so, the problem might not be with the item but with your settings or client. Do other items show tooltips when you mouse over? I'm not sure there is a way to turn that off, but if there is, maybe it happened accidentally?

Edited May 30, 2022 by Tanek.5983

[Sevetamryn.2974]

44 minutes ago, Tanek.5983 said:

 

 

Ok, so, to be clear, you are saying that when you hover your mouse over the options, you DO NOT get a tooltip like shown here?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/823613716762984498/980930747370192976/unknown.png

If so, the problem might not be with the item but with your settings or client. Do other items show tooltips when you mouse over? I'm not sure there is a way to turn that off, but if there is, maybe it happened accidentally?

 

Ok, thanks for the screenshot, and it gave me the clue. the tool tip is only on the icon, it worked for me now. However, I still think that's UI design that could be better - total area of the option, including text should be mouse sensitive.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 5/30/2022 at 11:22 PM, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

 

Ok, thanks for the screenshot, and it gave me the clue. the tool tip is only on the icon, it worked for me now. However, I still think that's UI design that could be better - total area of the option, including text should be mouse sensitive.

no this has been a thing since launch. with ALL items. this is entirely a you problem. you didn't move your cursor, YOU are at fault.

[Sevetamryn.2974]

On 6/7/2022 at 6:04 PM, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

no this has been a thing since launch. with ALL items. this is entirely a you problem. you didn't move your cursor, YOU are at fault.

I have to disagree, the 1st thing the game teaches you everywhere, when you have an item with a description text (i.e. every merchant menu, trade post etc.) - the whole item field is mouse sensitive. When you hover anywhere over the item field, you get a tool tip. And I do not mean just the icon or exactly the text, the whole field, check it out. 

It is only the inventory items giving you a multiple choice when using them, where it is different and the mouse over is only working on the icon. However, the complete style of those select boxes is identical to the item menu at a vendor.

 

https://i.postimg.cc/cLbLvdHS/gw2-items.jpg

Edited June 13, 2022 by Sevetamryn.2974

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 6/13/2022 at 5:21 PM, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

I have to disagree, the 1st thing the game teaches you everywhere, when you have an item with a description text (i.e. every merchant menu, trade post etc.) - the whole item field is mouse sensitive. When you hover anywhere over the item field, you get a tool tip. And I do not mean just the icon or exactly the text, the whole field, check it out. 

It is only the inventory items giving you a multiple choice when using them, where it is different and the mouse over is only working on the icon. However, the complete style of those select boxes is identical to the item menu at a vendor.

 

https://i.postimg.cc/cLbLvdHS/gw2-items.jpg

wow.  "the tool tip does not extend the entire ui element"
how about you MOVE THE CURSOR OVER just a few pixels. then you get the tool tip.

 you should have stated from the beginning that the area of tool tip activation is inconsistent.  which is something i could agree with you and even support you.

but that wasn't your statement. 
you claimed there is NO indication.
that's what you claimed.
you have been disproven with that one. 

[Sevetamryn.2974]

20 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

wow.  "the tool tip does not extend the entire ui element"
how about you MOVE THE CURSOR OVER just a few pixels. then you get the tool tip.

 you should have stated from the beginning that the area of tool tip activation is inconsistent.  which is something i could agree with you and even support you.

but that wasn't your statement. 
you claimed there is NO indication.
that's what you claimed.
you have been disproven with that one. 

 

I repeat easily. Game teached me:

1. UI elements have tool tips about the item
2. I learned this and it is useful

much later I encountered UI element in the exact same design, where this did not work this way

1. I declared "this broken" - tool tip missing
2. Someone showed me "it is different, here it works only on the icon, not all the item region
3. I declared "than it is bad (because inconsistent) UI design"

What's your problem with this, ask any UI professional and he will tell you the same! (b.t.w. UI specialists are part of my job environment).

When a user learned, all the element in such a UI is mouse over sensitive, for what reason should a user expect that on a UI of exact same design that the behavior is different (mouse over sensitivity only on the picture)? There is no reason to expect the behavior changes, if I move my mouse to a different position on the element. It works not the way it usually work, logical conclusion, it is broken!

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

When the UI element contains identical icons with different tool-tips?  That's when. 

[Sevetamryn.2974]

7 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

When the UI element contains identical icons with different tool-tips?  That's when. 

 

The problem I talk about here is, and that's why I call it bad UI design, I had such a select box with 3 times same item text and item icon. and this boxes behave different regarding tool tip. and this is inconsistent, therefor bad, UI design. See also linked image in my post from Monday, 5.21 PM.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Exactly. How can it show the difference if there is only one tool-tip? 

[Sevetamryn.2974]

6 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Exactly. How can it show the difference if there is only one tool-tip? 

 

That's exactly the difference I complain about, mouse over item:

• in vendor menus, TP etc., you get a tool tip anywhere over the item (text, background, icon)
• for boxes from inventory, where you can select 1 item, there is no tool tip (when mouse over the item as shown) - however, as I learned later, you get tool tip if you move the mouse over the icon

This is not a big issue for the box I used in the screenshot, however, there are boxes of this type, where it is a problem, like the one that triggered me to start this post a while ago, 3 different items (light, medium, heavy) with exactly the same text and icon.

 

So, now again my question, if a user is familiar with the behavior from vendors /TP, hovering anywhere over the item area (icon, text or background) shoes item properties as tool tip. then the user encounters such a box, does the same, there is no tool tip. Would the user think:

1. oh, no tool tip here like usual ... or
2. ahh, no tool tip here, maybe there is a tooltip anywhere else in this area, I just need to search long enough ...

second question:

1. is this good UI design ... or
2. is this inconsistent, potentially misleading and therefore bad UI design

Adenum:

• This is not only for item select boxes, this is the same for receipe books, extremally annoying when you buy i.e. an expensive ascended armor recipe books with 18 different items to chose from and item names not making exactly clear what it is. - and you don't know that the tool tip is only available at the icon.
• For vendors you can click anywhere to select the item to buy or double click to instantly buy one item.
• For this select boxes / recipe books you can't double click, and you can't select the item by clicking the icon (that has tool tip), you have to click the area that does NOT create a tool tip (background or text) to select the item.

How does such thing happen in software development? That's (from experience) easy to answer. Two different teams/developers have to create similar UI elements with similar functions, independent from each other, with just roughly specified properties / guidelines. 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sevetamryn.2974

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

9 minutes ago, Sevetamryn.2974 said:

 

That's exactly the difference I complain about, mouse over item:

• in vendor menus, TP etc., you get a tool tip anywhere over the item (text, background, icon)
• for boxes from inventory, where you can select 1 item, there is no tool tip (when mouse over the item as shown) - however, as I learned later, you get tool tip if you move the mouse over the icon

This is not a big issue for the box I used in the screenshot, however, there are boxes of this type, where it is a problem, like the one that triggered me to start this post a while ago, 3 different items (light, medium, heavy) with exactly the same text and icon.

 

So, now again my question, if a user is familiar with the behavior from vendors /TP, hovering anywhere over the item area (icon, text or background) shoes item properties as tool tip. then the user encounters such a box, does the same, there is no tool tip. Would the user think:

1. oh, no tool tip here like usual ... or
2. ahh, no tool tip here, maybe there is a tooltip anywhere else in this area, I just need to search long enough ...

second question:

1. is this good UI design ... or
2. is this inconsistent, potentially misleading and therefore bad UI design

Adenum:

• This is not only for item select boxes, this is the same for receipe books, extremally annoying when you buy i.e. an expensive ascended armor recipe books with 18 different items to chose from and item names not making exactly clear what it is. 
• For vendors you can click anywhere to select the item to buy or double click to instantly buy one item.
• For this select boxes / recipe books you can't double click, and you can't select the item by clicking the icon (that has tool tip), you have to click the area that does NOT create a tool tip (background or text) to select the item.

How does such thing happen in software development? That's (from experience) easy to answer. Two different teams/developers have to create similar UI elements with similar functions, with just roughly specified properties and guidelines. 

 

it literally does NOT have the same text. it literally tells you that its heavy medium or light armor in the same place as ANY armor  piece does. it proven by several other commenters.
if your complaint is that they use the same item name for all three which is accurate as it is virtually the same item just for different armor classes, then you are just nit picking. specially this is not the first item to do this. ANY ITEM that has all three armor classes covered has the same name in ALL armor classes
you are triggered not by the info missing but your inability to pay attention on a basic level. 

that's also why i do not buy your claim of "UI specialists are part of my job environment" at all, if you miss such an obvious detail.

Edited June 16, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[Sevetamryn.2974]

42 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

it literally does NOT have the same text. it literally tells you that its heavy medium or light armor in the same place as ANY armor  piece does. it proven by several other commenters.
if your complaint is that they use the same item name for all three which is accurate as it is virtually the same item just for different armor classes, then you are just nit picking. specially this is not the first item to do this. ANY ITEM that has all three armor classes covered has the same name in ALL armor classes
you are triggered not by the info missing but your inability to pay attention on a basic level. 

that's also why i do not buy your claim of "UI specialists are part of my job environment" at all, if you miss such an obvious detail.

Look at my screenshot and test it yourself.

You mean, you know that you have to hover over the icon- or maybe that the "natural way" you behave in such a situation, and that's ok, and everybody else in the game also know this and everybody else hovers only over the icons, just not this idiot in the forum. - right?

Well, before I came with this issue to the forum, is asked in the guilds discord. And we have members playing since day one. Guess what the answer there was? "Just move mouse over the icon!" - No - The answer was, "Yeah, this is an old and known problem, it's annoying, just ask the wiki, then you know what to select" ... more or less the same as the 1st answer that I got here.

For you doubts about my experience, I work in the industry since mid 90's. And from measuring user behavior we learned back then, there are two distinctive user groups when something is presented with an icon / image and text:

1. users "naturaly" navigating/interacting via the graphical item and and in many cases even ignoring the text as a valid choice for interaction - I assume you fall in this group
2. users "naturaly" navigating/interacting via the text item - that's where I fall in (and the majority of the people from the company I worked back then, including the UI designers)

And we even improved our application based on this results. By our preconception from our own behavior (and concluding "everybody does it the same") we designed UI elements with the graphical part as "decoration" / "eye candy" only, without function. Off course, we changed this.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sevetamryn.2974

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

you know how this reads?

"i asked my 4 year old about global socio political topic and this is what they said"

you are literally the first i have ever seen to complain about this ever. nowhere in maps chat guilds or other places have i ever seen anyone mention it. not even disabled people who recently had their voices be heard at the hard stuck community on what needs to be improved didn't mention this at all. it sounds like you make stuff up to justify you lonely position of not paying attention.

 

also nice wikipedia copy pasta

Edited June 17, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913