State of Revenant

[SoulBlaze.3059]

Revenant is the worst class for PvP currently in the history of Guild Wars. 

 

-Around 16K hp as a typically melee class, with heavy armor, meaning you can die almost instantly to most bursts.

-a single stun break at a time with a huge cool down, also requiring an immense amount of the class resource.

-a single stun attack also requiring a modest amount of resource. (Which also goes way against the pvp meta which is stun spam, normally procced multiple times back to back)

-Ok mobility, but specifically for engaging a target, and very limited for getting away from a fight, note the 16K hp

-Ranged builds normally focus cond damage, which is exceptionally low in comparison to other classes, also making you squishier normally due to the attacks available.

-Used to be good with heal spam builds allowing for an ok dueling class, matching the prowess of other classes. This has been nerfed to the floor, making you lose most duels.

-Because of these changes, you are expected at best to be a support build, which mind you requires a Herald spec which has been made weaker than ever. Literally made of glass.

-While the class still maintains ok burst damage with GS builds, because of the healing nerfs, and lack of health/stun breaks, you will almost never want to engage alone.

 

I have been playing revenant for a long time and love the way the new spec works, and loved how good of a dueling class this was in the past with the improved sustainability. Currently this class is barely even viable for 2v1 fights as people will normally target you knowing you will go down extremely fast. I am suggesting a rework of the class to fit the current pvp meta as most other classes have atleast one spec that is somewhat viable without being carried by a teammate running something currently broken. This class is in, by far, the worst place out of all classes for PvP specific gamemodes, as it does not seem to have a focus, and has 1 of everything available for every spec option. This in particular makes it exceptionally impossible to match up to all other class specs in most fights. I am essentially begging at this point, please give this class something to work with.

[Buran.3796]

8 hours ago, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

Revenant is the worst class for PvP currently in the history of Guild Wars. 

This class is in, by far, the worst place out of all classes for PvP specific gamemodes, as it does not seem to have a focus, and has 1 of everything available for every spec option. This in particular makes it exceptionally impossible to match up to all other class specs in most fights. I am essentially begging at this point, please give this class something to work with.

   I would like to agree with you due the hard time I'm having with the last Rev spec, bud sadly the facts proves that you're wrong:

1) Last week in the June  MAT (you can view it in the Mighty Teapot YT channel) there were at least 5 Vindicators and a Herald (all playing power builds) amongst the teams, and the two teams which reach the final (Team Copium and French Frauds) were each running a Vindicator. That means that the spec is fairly capable at high skill level. Other profession had way lower representation...

2) From Copium, I think that Skiekï didn't die a single time in the tournament (He was running greatsword + staff with Zerker amulet and Melandru runes) whereas Azurrs from Frenchs (was running greatsword + swords with Zerker amulet and Divinity runes) a couple of times in the whole tournament. You can check the builds at the video 8they were running the same traits with Retribution and Salvation 1,2,1. and Vindicator 1,3,2, with the Alliance and Shiro as legends). That means that even with zerker stats top players are able to stay alive even in the current meta with high burst specs (Harbingers, Willbenders, etc.).

3) Usually you have two break stuns available (one in each legend) which is in line to what most of the classes have at the moment. The base health is totally fine taking in consideration the high base armor value and the mobility. Condi Hearld also easily pushes from 23K to 27K HP.

4) Mobility is great in the most successful build played in the MAT: a 1200 range teleport, a spammable 600 range jump with a 3 seconds cd, two evades backwards and a 450 dash which reaches 900 if has a target, a shadowstep of 600 if you're running double swords...   Is no as good as a in Thief, but they don't have 2.3K+ base armor... 

5) I don't think support is the role is meant to be done for Rev in PvP, since currently both core Guardian and Tempest are way better at that. Instead the new spec moves from being focused on +1, roaming and having a strong cc game in teamfigths to being strong at AoE damage, tankier in duels but with lower cc and much harder to master. On other hand, the new condi meta power the game to run condition Rev builds which works much better now since the overload of condis from Harbingers, Specters and Virtuosos make way harder for enemies to clean our own condi burst.

   Ultimately, I think that it resumes on: old Rev buids are still playeble in the new meta but struggle vs the higher AoE pressure; Vindicator provides a new push at the cost of being very hard to play, but once mastered seems to have decent sustain and impactful pressence in teamfights.

[SoulBlaze.3059]

The MAT was played without the full effects of the most recent updates, and mind you 5v5 plays nothing like the current 2v2 season. Its hard to justify you have the same number of skills as other classes as the secondary legend is typically on cooldown. On top of all that the MAT is played alot differently as in high skill brackets you see alot more skilled play and less stun spam that is typically used throughout normal PvP. You cant exactly expect the entire guildwars community to suddenly play the game differently and say its fair because they can do that. I stand by what I said, and fully believe that the revenant is generally lacking in the PvP scene and in my opinion the video mentioned shows that, as the revenant players were typically capping points, or a +1 in a fight ensuring their safety. The class cannot hold out on their own.

[draxynnic.3719]

Yeah, rev health isn't 'low'. It's median. GW2 professions have three base health settings - guardian, thief and ele have the lowest, warrior and necromancer the highest, everyone else in between.

In terms of PvP performance - power herald has been a menace pretty much forever. It's just hard to get into because it's a high skill, high risk, high reward playstyle. They've been overshadowed a bit by willbenders in the last few months, and suffer in condi-heavy metas due to not having a lot of survival, but they're still dangerous when played well. And every elite specialisation has bunkery options if you want to take that route. It's just support that has rarely worked well on rev except for gimmicks - rev builds are more likely to be bunkers with a bit of support on the side than actual supports.

I tend to cycle through professions, and in my experience warrior has it quite a bit harder. It's been in a situation of its most viable build being high skill, high risk, moderate reward for most of the PoF period, and bladesworn is janky as heck.

[Buran.3796]

33 minutes ago, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

The MAT was played without the full effects of the most recent updates, and mind you 5v5 plays nothing like the current 2v2 season. 

The class cannot hold out on their own.

   The game is NOT balanced. The PvP is (not) balanced towards 5 vs 5. The game is totally unbalanced in 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3, which is fine since those are only mini seasons which last 2-3 weeks at most. Being sid that, how Rev fares in the current 2 vs 2 mini season?

  Firts of all: the changes of the Contrast Cursor patch didn't affect too much to Vindi: the Planar Protection nerf from 20 to 30s cooldown is bad since Harbingers, Virtuosos, Rangers and now some Engies rely a lot in ranged attacks, but you won't would be able to survive alone just due the 4 seconds bubble. The Balance in Discord healing nerf represents at most losing a potential of ~35 HP x second every 10 seconds, which seems very minor. the Energy Meld from cd going from 20 to 30s hits harder, but will only affect mediocre players as me due at high level fights will be over (for good or bad) in less than 20 seconds. I think that the problem is that ANet expected from Vindis to have only a single evade, and they are confused about Vindis spamming evades. I think that inevitably will lead to the removal of the sigil of energy from PvP (and maybe some traits from Retribution) but overall makes sense due ANet game designers doesn't love Revenants and they hate specailly fighting vs Revenants at any game mode. But so far has been worse for Warriors, and Eles, so I wouldn't play the victim card too hard here...

   Now, for 2 vs 2 I think Rev has some decent builds, but Vindi isn't the best. Condi Herald is tankier and deals good damage while having much better cc, and some core Rev builds can do well. The thing is 2 vs 2 is worse than 3 vs 3 because a conformed team between a bruiser and a support healer can be unkillable, but that works in both directions: partner with a Guard or a Tempest and things will go better.

[SoulBlaze.3059]

I can agree with a few points there, the problem I find is that if you look too much at the class itself, you fail to see how it performs in comparison to other classes. We can crunch the numbers all day, but when you see how the class actually fares, and what is has available in comparison to other classes, it just doesnt make much sense from a development standpoint. I 100% believe the class is lesser than all other classes due to the fact that it has extreme versatility. This aspect does not work well in PvP at all where the whole focus is picking one thing and abusing it. Yes, while this does create a much greater skill ceiling specifically for this class, when put into practice it does not work well at all due to the way pvp is currently run. I find it hard to compare other classes to rev because they all have a focus. Rev's focus is often burst damage because thats what excels currently, but is outclassed by the warriors axe combo which can easily hit over 20K damage in under 2 seconds. Not to mention trap guardians which have the capability to insta almost any build. A secondary aspect to think about is class synergy, the revenant does not synergize well with any classes as their skills are mostly direct damage based, hence why you dont see many speed wipes with this class. I believe the class could use an entire rework.

[vilesoldier.9826]

Can I ask what rank PvP you play at?

You use a lot of terms like "normal PvP" and "PvP scene", and I'm curious what rank you're at to feel that Rev is not performing/needs an entire rework.

Edited July 3, 2022 by GeneralBM.5781

[SoulBlaze.3059]

4 minutes ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

Can I ask what rank PvP you play at?

You use a lot of terms like "normal PvP" and "PvP scene", and I'm curious what rank you're at to feel that Rev is not performing/needs an entire rework.

Typically mid gold. However I do play other classes a bunch as well.

Edited July 3, 2022 by SoulBlaze.3059

[vilesoldier.9826]

1 minute ago, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

Typically mid gold.

And what kind of Rev are you interested in playing? Do you practice with it often?

Also, what kinds of classes (and specific builds) are you having trouble with?

[SoulBlaze.3059]

1 minute ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

And what kind of Rev are you interested in playing? Do you practice with it often?

Also, what kinds of classes (and specific builds) are you having trouble with?

I primarily play burst dps rev, and while do ok with it, it feels outclassed. I have tried many other recommended builds but they never seem to do as well. My primary other is a necro that I swap around builds often, and rarely lose a game with. I have played mesmer in the past, but not in a bit. I also played warrior when the new spec came out, and it was great as well.

[vilesoldier.9826]

4 minutes ago, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

I primarily play burst dps rev, and while do ok with it, it feels outclassed. I have tried many other recommended builds but they never seem to do as well. My primary other is a necro that I swap around builds often, and rarely lose a game with. I have played mesmer in the past, but not in a bit. I also played warrior when the new spec came out, and it was great as well.

Again, how often you you practice your Shiro Herald (assuming that's what you play as burst dps)?

and what classes are you having trouble fighting?

[SoulBlaze.3059]

Shiro alliance, and daily. Herald does not do well currently due to the nerfs it got a few patches ago. Hence why you dont see many people in the MAT use it. The primary problems are the current specs that are too powerful. Trap guardians/staff guardians. axe warriors. perma overshield eles. rifle engineers. fear/freeze spam necros. Which is really my point, the most busted rev builds are not as good as the most busted other class builds. Anyone not running the meta is excluded.

[vilesoldier.9826]

2 minutes ago, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

Shiro alliance, and daily. Herald does not do well currently due to the nerfs it got a few patches ago. Hence why you dont see many people in the MAT use it. The primary problems are the current specs that are too powerful. Trap guardians/staff guardians. axe warriors. perma overshield eles. rifle engineers. fear/freeze spam necros. Which is really my point, the most busted rev builds are not as good as the most busted other class builds. Anyone not running the meta is excluded.

Wait Shiro Alliance? As in you are playing Vind? I thought you were complaining about sustain because you were on a Shiro Herald, but Vindicator is very well known for its sustain, arguable even after June 28th nerfs. If Shiro Vind is too difficult, pls try Jalis Vind, as you get more stab access and unstrippable dmg reduction mods. 

As for dps Herald, it has a lot of the tools to deal with many of the builds you've listed. Glint Heal alone takes care of trap guardians and axe warriors. Shiro and Glint stunbreaks are still great stunbreak tools with lots of utility. The only real threat is condis, so I guess you'll have to study more of what eles and necros can do, so you can avoid their setups/kite their mechanics.

Two good resources with lots of info to help you out:

Vindicator - Greatsword Shiro - MetaBattle Guild Wars 2 Builds

Herald - Power Shiro - MetaBattle Guild Wars 2 Builds

[SoulBlaze.3059]

Thanks for the builds I have looked at 101 times and havnt been updated in a bit. I have tried every build possible for the rev. My issue is, no matter what you try, someone is better at it. It is not top in anything, just mediocre at everything. On top of that the community knows that rev tends to be squishier, due to the lack of consistent stunbreak and generally lower health. Because of this you are almost always the target of a group. The class needs something broken too, since everyone has something.

[vilesoldier.9826]

4 minutes ago, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

The class needs something broken too, since everyone has something.

Bingo, Glad we finally got to the root of your argument 🙂

 

It was never a question of hard matchups you wanted to get more consistent at, or how the meta can change depending on PvP ranking, but rather a plea for more broken tools so you could unga just as much as you claim everyone else does.

As this is the case, pls proceed playing your Necro, you'll be in good company among other Meta bandwagoners

[SoulBlaze.3059]

1 minute ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

Bingo, Glad we finally got to the root of your argument 🙂

 

It was never a question of hard matchups you wanted to get more consistent at, or how the meta can change depending on PvP ranking, but rather a plea for more broken tools so you could unga just as much as you claim everyone else does.

As this is the case, pls proceed playing your Necro, you'll be in good company among other Meta bandwagoners

This has always been my point, im not arguing that the class is generally weak, im arguing that it cannot stack up to what is currently being run. Thats why I said we can talk numbers all day, but when you see how it performs in comparison, it doesnt make sense. 

[vilesoldier.9826]

3 minutes ago, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

This has always been my point, im not arguing that the class is generally weak, im arguing that it cannot stack up to what is currently being run. Thats why I said we can talk numbers all day, but when you see how it performs in comparison, it doesnt make sense. 

If you are looking for broken tools, pls go play broken classes.

Spamming every forum section with complaints about Rev because everything that's broken about it has a skill requirement above your ability is literally not anyone's problem.