Mesmer changes

[taara.3217]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:51 AM, Mike.7983 said:

Already moved onto Reaper and Herald

ok

On 6/12/2023 at 8:51 AM, Mike.7983 said:

Reaper and Mech will dominate PvE.

no chance (if compare to Mirage), especially Reaper

Edited June 26, 2023 by taara.3217

[taara.3217]

On 6/11/2023 at 6:18 AM, Skye.4983 said:

I know some people think that Mirage getting their second bar of endurance means that they can now dodge more.

These guys are actually a dab hand at strategy of balance! I know at least one great workplace for them!

[Curunen.8729]

Some feedback following a bit of smallscale wvw on mirage this past week after a long break (caveat - playing on WiFi to 5G mobile internet across regions. The latency and stability has improved since last testing, surprisingly playable though occasional small spikes but it feels ok and on paper not as bad as what you Aus/NZ players have to deal with):

.

Limited build options. Must crutch heavily on gear (ie double energy/adventurer, dodge food) and then you've got a choice of maxing alacrity to alleviate all the heavy cooldown nerfs (so must run IH since the boon redistribution to clones), or the desert distortion/blurred inscription gimmick.

I prefer the former, which if making use of all the associated cheese (ie chaos+cele, min maxing for concentration) is quite good, other than my gap in understanding for some newer elite specs. I feel much easier to play than virtuoso. Yeah endurance banking is not good so I'm glad to get the second dodge, but other than that I've had no problems.

But, deviate in any way from min maxing this and things start to go bad. Eg swapping to elusive mind and the (good) cleanse does not anymore make up for horrendous cooldowns. You must run cele, must take IH and must get some uptime of alacrity to function.

(Note: I do swap template to GS+Focus for largescale tagging, as you can be carried by allies, but would not feel secure on this anymore solo).

Looking ahead to the patch, there are some serious issues. Limiting dodge when cc'ed makes sense on paper and in a vacuum of how the game should work which I agree with, but there are some subtleties.

This would necessitate a shift back to old style core taking at least two stunbreaks (blink+X) and together with many other skills are instant cast already and don't benefit from being able to dodge cover cast. Shatters, blink, IA, SoM, Jaunt, staff 2+4, and even StG, Decoy, and short cast time abilities like axe 3, etc - not going to list everything but the point is many abilities are short cast time so mirage dodge benefits are marginal in terms of cover casting.

So long cooldowns on utilities do need to be looked at - as the dynamic will change between dodge use and skill use.

On a side note Sand through Glass is totally kittened by immobilise. It becomes a useless skill as you don't move, instantly break the mirror and lost 30s cooldown. StG must absolutely cleanse immob (and cripple/chill) as it is broken in this context.

Next is addition of cleanse on any mirage cloak with elusive mind - we will see if this has any function for power shatter, but here if you're going for pure shatter without leaning into clone ambushes then surely it's better to play core for more damage or chrono for more utility... It doesn't matter how much cleanse they put on elusive mind, it's a dead trait as mirage currently requires IH to measure up, certainly on condi/cele.

So the patch does not address build diversity at all, does nothing about the desert distortion/blurred inscription gimmick, and likely forces even more one way to play.

Finally it's the issue of dodge being tied to ambush and the whole point of mirage which is balancing offensive and defensive dodge use. I don't believe this is being taken into account as you're not always saving dodge only to evade but may need to burn to ambush for damage/utility/etc (not going to talk about dune cloak as that is a separate issue as with EM above). Otherwise if saving dodge purely defensively you may as well go with another spec and have freedom in damage/utility/etc. This may prove to be more significant when dodge gets limited - we'll have to wait and see...

[Provocative.3561]

On 6/25/2023 at 1:53 AM, Curunen.8729 said:

 

Umm wow, that is a lot to take in.

First of all, this seems to be talking about mirage in a cele context. Which is fine I suppose. But I too have played mirage in WvW roaming aspect and without the second dodge, mirage has felt really underwhelming. I play from a zerker standpoint, so the plays I make need to be fast and calculated. I play upon the mind games aspect of mesmer leaving my enemy guessing through the chaos created from my shatter storm combos. 
 

as far as your other ideas on the rest of mirage kit.

IH has always been the way togo but I’ve noticed some huge success using elusive mind vs cele mirages and condi mirages. Very excited that condi mirage is being hit because that was always the original issue. People didn’t have an issue with zerker mirage it was always the condis applied by IH in conjunction with confusion mesmers and the cloaks allowing more IH triggers…
 

As far as dune cloak, this trait is great in theory for domination mirage for boon strip. But it works if you’re in melee and not at ranged, this I will agree needs some kind of aoe range buff. In the sense if you get close enough I can dodge x ability and still get the use of the trait to apply in an area around me even a 300 radius would be ideal. It’s fine if it’s point blank on the mesmers location. The issue I have with it is, when I’m in ranged the trait goes to waste and it gives no value. But curious to see how this trait plays out with our dodge being returned. 

sand through glass is a just an stun break evade that grants a cloak. It’s great if on staff or like Sw/P & Sc( or axe)/F. But It definitely gets out shined by more outperforming utility that just makes more sense for mesmer overall like illusionary ambush, mantra of concentration, blink, decoy, arcane thievery, mirror images, Signit of midnight, mantra of distraction or resolve. All of these lead to build diversity. And if you ever catch me in a duel or roaming, depending on the situation WvW allows for you to change on the fly and I’m always switching up my utility to combat the next fight and testing out which is good for when. I rarely see the mirage distortion cloak abuse. We’re seeing virtuoso do that. And could see mirage using this tactic but they lose a useful trait in doing so. So we’ll see how that pans out.

Mirage utility is pretty good cooldowns..  but mesmer has had some cooldown tweaks which have helped. But the balance team needs todo better in that aspect because it’s forcing mesmer into this state of not being able to keep up with the likes of thieves willbenders engis warriors rangers. Their innate trading aspects on generally low cooldowns allows most of these classes to trade very well in quick succession bursts and have the cool downs to keep the fight going. It takes as of currently some clutch plays on my behalf to come out on top. When mesmers cooldowns are on the high end it forces me and mesmer in general to play to the T or fail. And that adrenaline pumping gameplay is great and all but I think it’s a bit linear compared to the fluidity of say ele or herald. Luckily mesmer has a lot of get out of jail free cards so I guess that’s the trade off? 

Lastly, mirage heal should be a 20 sec cooldown ngl. Anything above 20 cooldown on heal leads to stagnation and desperation when in duels or fights. You can see the enemy struggling to comeback or survive in a fight especially after eating a huge burst. The only thing left is to try and block invuln and evade any other damage in hopes your 25-30 second heal comes back off cooldown. We need fluidity not clunky, this goes for all classes. 

[Curunen.8729]

@Provocative.3561

Thanks for the response, yes this is from cele being the only thing worthwile for mirage at the moment (will be curious what happens tomorrow). I have several templates and while in the past have felt comfortable occasionally running around on power GS, right now it is masochistic unless having some kind of pet support.

I was previously elusive mind diehard even through the exhaustion nerf, because as you say the cleanse is very good regardless of the uninspired design since original nerfs, and enabled fairly easy survival vs condi. When player ambush had max alacrity one could still output sufficient damage while taking elusive mind in a more player centric burst playstyle (when cooldowns allowed you to play more like a thief...). Since the shift of staff boons to clones, the prior nerfs to all cooldowns such as blink, illusionary ambush, jaunt and axe 3 are much more apparent with reduced alacrity - hence for the first time I feel there is no choice but IH for both utility and damage. It may not be essential for zerker, but then again the benefits of taking mirage (ie cleanse, mobility on sword, dodge while gs2 shatter etc) become questionable to be worth it vs chrono, virtuoso or even core. Unless they say buff player GS ambush damage and give some additional incentive in the traitline.

Dune cloak needs something else going for it to be relevant as you sacrifice either insane levels of cleanse or insane levels of utility/damage. I can only see it being more useful in a group setting together with shattered concentration to be a mobile boon removing bomb. And while having "perma" cleanse is great I still think elusive mind showcases the lack of creativity in the current balance decisions. It's mundane and highlights the direction of the game in the theme of percentage increases and general spam. To me as for a long time the entire spine of the trait line needs a chiropractic to straighten it out.

I think given dodge nerf, it won't be so necessary to maintain overnerfed utility cooldowns and maybe eg blink, IA, decoy could be closer to the 30s mark, sand through glass can have 2 ammo or be 20s (and it desperately needs to remove immob as well has having queue priority), and so on. Mirage advance can have the target break on return restored, and be given 3/4s evade like axe 3. Jaunt could meet halfway at 25s per charge. Probably more I can't think of.

The desert distortion/blurred inscription may become more prevalent again as whether or not it is currently being run, it is still a badly designed and unhealthy interaction that promotes invuln chaining and likely a cause for at least a few different nerfs in the past. Ideally I believe mirage could have kept dodge while cced and instead replace distortion with desert distortion only (delete the trait) for 1s invuln and clones turning into mirrors.

I agree false oasis should be 20s. Cutting this short as gtg, hope that covers some of the points, may edit later. 🙂