The elephant in the room about specter and condi thief (and nobody talks about it)

[WhiteSmoke.5926]

The number one reason (in my opinion) why condi Thief/Specter is not really play is how venom interact with other condi thief/specter player.

This is simple, they cannot stacks proprely with the exception of Basilik Venom.

It means if there is more than 2 condi Thief/Specter in a squad, their respective dps will goes down (and create a lot of frustration). In reality, more than one condi Thief/Specter create problems because the squad is moving or there is a dead people or a kiter.

Condi Firebrand don't have that issue.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

16 hours ago, WhiteSmoke.5926 said:

The number one reason (in my opinion) why condi Thief/Specter is not really play is how venom interact with other condi thief/specter player.

This is simple, they cannot stacks proprely with the exception of Basilik Venom.

It means if there is more than 2 condi Thief/Specter in a squad, their respective dps will goes down (and create a lot of frustration). In reality, more than one condi Thief/Specter create problems because the squad is moving or there is a dead people or a kiter.

Condi Firebrand don't have that issue.

100% agree. Let me just drop this here. I posted a potential idea a long time ago now. I hope that we get a rework on it sometime.

 

[Doggie.3184]

Meh, just get rid of Venom Share and give Thief all the stacks. It's not fun anymore and hasn't been ever since the rework years ago that also reduced their radius. (give me my 1min long poison duration back lol) We also have a better group heal now with Specter, or should, for the 2 people on planet that used Skelk Venom (why isn't Skelk Life Leech btw and how does a snake putting venom into someone's body effect only the snake and not the prey? Really weird design logic-wise)

[Batalix.2873]

Hm obviously the limitation exists because venoms provide very distinct and powerful group buffs, and if Thieves could stack you could theoretically have parties full of Thieves make for pretty broken stacking. Which might be fun for meme runs but could very easily ruin certain metas.

Personally I don't like the idea of group compositions favoring doubling up on professions/especs, so I think I am actually fine with venoms as-are. Maybe there could be a secondary general buff like "grants X if the target already has X venom", but that also just feels too against Thief's identity.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

22 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Hm obviously the limitation exists because venoms provide very distinct and powerful group buffs, and if Thieves could stack you could theoretically have parties full of Thieves make for pretty broken stacking. Which might be fun for meme runs but could very easily ruin certain metas.

Personally I don't like the idea of group compositions favoring doubling up on professions/especs, so I think I am actually fine with venoms as-are. Maybe there could be a secondary general buff like "grants X if the target already has X venom", but that also just feels too against Thief's identity.

Personally my suggestion is to change it into a reload system like mantra charges are for guardians. One of the good things about it is that it wouldn't require making the max stacks higher than X. For the sake of the argument let's take Spider Venom.

Spider Venom currently gives 6 stacks with a cooldown of 30s baseline. What if it were changed to 3 charges, each charge having 2 stacks with charges recharging every 10s. If it were this then the odds of overwriting another thieves venom or them yours would be a lot less. That's what I posted in the referenced link above.

I also feel like the CC venoms would feel a lot more reactive if they were split up into charges as well (Ice Drake Venom and Devour Venom). Overall it would feel like a much more fun design.

Edited June 24, 2023 by ZeroTheRuler.7415
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