Druid is the newest example of why Alac/Quick are design problems

[oCynder.5136]

I said this to my friends and this is pretty much where we are at. A boonball mess that boons aren't just luxury anymore unlike the core days. And unique buffs like quickness was only applicable on some classes. Mind you it was SELF quickness.

 

Here we are. A meta where you just spit out all the boons to get the massive amount of damage. Who cares about healing. Just provide boons. Who cares about taking damage. Dodge and still provide boons. Who cares about luxury boons? Just spam them to your party and not think about it.

[Katary.7096]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:15 AM, shaz.8572 said:

I do honestly think that they gave scrapper a really good idea on HOW to apply the boons.

That is true. Hands down one of the few great ideas from the June update. That method fits really well with Engineer since they have a relatively large pool of combo field and combo finisher skills. But it is a little weird that whirl finishers aren't included in a Scrapper trait.

On 6/30/2023 at 2:15 AM, shaz.8572 said:

Since we are kinda moving away from healer only uses staff type stuff with the release of the new weapons. 

I think that grace of the land should apply boons on blast finishers and leaps instead of forcing celestial, considering that not every one will want to burn celestial cool down, this will allow flexibility while retaining identity. 

Here is  list that i have seen on weapon skills. 

two leap finishers on sword 

one blast on hammer/ two if you count unleashed alt mode. 

one leap on dagger

one leap on great sword

one blast on staff 

one blast on warhorn

one blast on cele avatar mode. 

all spirits blast finish technically so 1 heal blast, 4 util blasts, 1 elite skill 

so even if they dont want to include leaps that would allow natural boon application assuming that you use staff, some main had and warhorn on druid, which allows multiple ways to provide the HOW with out forcing any one to burn celestial mode. 

This would allow a NATURAL FLOW to gameplay with out forcing it to always make you burn celestial avatar and you can still potentially keep alac up and heal with out disrupting the class too much while allowing people to just heal, dps or provide alac with the current traits as they are with out shoehorning it into something that doesnt feel good to play. 

I do hope that people consider this option as its the only way im seeing that will really allow the class to do what people want and we already know they can update the trait to allow finishers considering that is the route they took with scrapper alac trait.

I'm not sure that I like this concept on Ranger as much as I like it on Engineer (mostly for thematic reasons), but it is way better than the current implementation of spamming CA skills. And you do make a few good points as to why this would work well. I also admit that this would be a lot more interesting than reworking a Druid trait into: "Glyph of XYZ now grants alacrity instead of its normal effect." Which is basically the biggest problem with Renegade's alacrity access: It is boring. It works, but it is boring.

[Raven.1793]

On 6/29/2023 at 5:15 PM, shaz.8572 said:

I do honestly think that they gave scrapper a really good idea on HOW to apply the boons.

Finishers are a terrible way for scrapper to apply boons. Gyros were great because they were not intrusive and because they did not require a rotation. Just cast all your gyros every 20 seconds to maintain quickness and you have the rest of the time for interesting gameplay like using Rocket Charge or Shock Shield to void attacks while dealing damage. Even the combo fields are more interesting when used reactively. For example using Spare Capacitor into Rocket Charge for CC or using Reconstruction Field into Rocket Charge for some emergency healing. Boons are an unfortunate necessity and I don't want their application method to be interesting or to spend effort applying them. I'd rather pay attention to the game environment than trying to play whack-a-mole on the skill bar.

[Caitmonster.9036]

Why should a druid have to burn through CA just to provide alac when certain other classes can fart it out without thinking, IE Mechanist with alac? You can't take lingering light for the quicker CA regeneration if you want to take the alac trait and it feels horrible when you've done your alac "rotation", drop out of CA, then realize you need to drop a Glyph of the Stars or Lunar Impact to heal the squad or get a bunch of downs on their feet and then remember "oh yeah, I just used CA. Whoops, I guess you all get to die." Druid loses a lot of its ability to be a reactive healer with this change and I hate it.

Tie it to might application, tie it to regen aplication, tie it to something other than CA skills, please.

[itspomf.9523]

On 6/28/2023 at 12:39 AM, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Now you use your big healing form to give Alac. This means you can't time it for when you need, well... actual healing. You can't control your glyphs as well because your time spent in CA is dependent on your Alac uptime. The entire build has to dance to the tune of an obstructive boon. 

This is what I dislike about balancing around these boons so much. Builds become less snappy, less flexible, less responsive.

Meanwhile the balance team sells us on the idea that they want us to NOT have to hit skills off cooldown ... by providing exactly that as the solution for giving out these boons.

I am ineffably baffled by how utterly inane the balance team proves itself to be, this past year.

[RenneBright.2473]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:39 AM, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Day one of the new balance patch and we are already seeing the struggles for some boon builds. Druid in particular is getting attention for having questionably low application of Might and Alac. The Alac is a necessity for Druid to be comparable to other healers, but forcing it into CA has upended the flexibility Druid previously enjoyed. Now you use your big healing form to give Alac. This means you can't time it for when you need, well... actual healing. You can't control your glyphs as well because your time spent in CA is dependent on your Alac uptime. The entire build has to dance to the tune of an obstructive boon. 

I only agree with the alac application, at least on the Adps version, even though the dps seems somehow lacking but that's another issue.
For the heal version, I rarely have a problem upkeeping Alac/Might. CA4+5 + double warhorn 5 (the other being from Clarion Bond trait in Marksmanship) are more than enough to have a solid Might upkeep as heal Druid.
And I disagree with the flexibility part: the old Alac spirits require you to have 3 spirits at least for a solid Alac upkeep, leaving you only 1 swappable utility spot. If you call that flexibility, I think you should look on the meaning again.
The patch gives you double-passive healing for your sub-group thanks to Windborne Notes & since Nature's Vengeance is pretty much useless, Invigorating Bond also gives 1 extra active healing.
If you want more active healing, take Glyph of Rejuvenation + Unity & Stars... That works well in Boneskinner. 
 

[Halbarz.3854]

Healing is fine, the regen boon is given like sweet candy and you have healing from both warhorn, your pet ability, etc. The numbers that we can output healing wise are fine to be honest. if you need extra healing drop grace of land and use lingering light + you can blast sublime conversion as well. 

Boon sharing, while regen, protection, swiftness, might are easy to keep up even if you do not use spirit of the sun (could be wrong on the spirit name) Alacrity is a pain! Not because it is impossible to keep up but because it makes no sense to have as part of your 4&5 CA abilities. 

Pre patch it was waaaay to easy nobody can say that is not true but how it is right now is just wrong. Giving it a utility skill would make that one skill again a must have on your bar so why not look at a different option? Maybe not the best idea but linking it to the staff nr 2 ability might be quite nice as it pulse heals allies it gives alacrity. That little extra would give a bit of freedom to use CA 🙂 + (wishful thinking I would like to see a blind effect on Ancestral grace) 

Currently it only doesn't make sense, it's also not fun to play this way. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

40 minutes ago, Halbarz.3854 said:

Not because it is impossible to keep up but because it makes no sense to have as part of your 4&5 CA abilities. 

What does that mean? If you just want to provide alac, you click 1 like a maniac.

57 minutes ago, Halbarz.3854 said:

Giving it a utility skill would make that one skill again a must have on your bar so why not look at a different option? Maybe not the best idea but linking it to the staff nr 2 ability might be quite nice as it pulse heals allies it gives alacrity.

Weapon mastery is coming, every ranger gets a staff. That mean it needs to be a trait in druid, which brings similar problems like right now.

 

[Peter.3901]

At this point they could just remove alac and quickness and think in something better, they are screwing many classes with this stuff and making the support class so boring, i love druid and don't want to see it turned into another alac zombie like the others.

I see that the reason behind alac and quickness is the fact that endgame groups don't let you play if you don't provide any of those boons, however, that said boons are in a bad state, i can see might being a general boon, but quickness and alac should be something more related to profession identity, and those should be a very situational and scarse to the point that is ignorable if desired, not something too mandatory to the point that 1 ~2 players will stop enjoying the game just to provide boons to the others to maintain the pseudo high DPS score.

Anet, seriously, you should start to rethink about your decisions around boons and balancing, i love and want to be a battle healer, not a boon zombie.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Peter.3901

[Halbarz.3854]

25 minutes ago, SlayerXX.7138 said:

What does that mean? If you just want to provide alac, you click 1 like a maniac.

Weapon mastery is coming, every ranger gets a staff. That mean it needs to be a trait in druid, which brings similar problems like right now.

 

Forgot to mention the 1 spam 🙂 even so spamming isn't fun and a flaw in the design. 

Also if staff 2 for example would get alacrity it wouldn't be a bad no matter the elite spec. your using,  It could make for some interesting builds.