>Tactics Rework recommendations for upcoming Staff<

[someguy.4107]

   Tactics should be Warriors one stop shop for support options. All options in Tactics should be equally impactful in their own way. Tactics today has: Shout healing with little protection, Might support that only heals the warrior giving might and damage options that belong in a different trait line. (I don't want to erase damage from Tactics. It'll still be laced all around the traitlines. Just want more fun and impactful support options) Starting from the top options and working my way down, these are my recommendations for warrior to finally be the support it deserves to be.

(Top trait options)

   Banners are lackluster in their support. I propose the idea of turning "Leg Specialist", "Warriors Cunning" and "Martial Cadance" into banner traits. On top of that, add initial summon effects on "Banner of Strength" & "Banner of Discipline".

"Leg Specialist" keeps original effect + banners AoE immob for 2secs PvE (1sec PvP/WvW) in the 180 attack radius. "Banner of Discipline" would proc the original "Leg Specialist" effect making the immob 3secs for PvE making this terrible banner more appealing.

"Warriors Cunning" enhances banners on summon and gives "Double Standards" effects. ("Double Standards" should be in Tactics to begin with) ("BoS"=increase strike damage & gives extra might on number of targets struck on summon/"BoDis"=Increase bleed stacks per target struck on summon/"BoDef"=Gains blast finisher on summon to AoE condi cleanse with its light Combo Field/"BoT= Gains blast finisher and breaks stun for caster on summon/"Battle Standard"= Increase duration per revived ally and struck target by 2secs)

"Martial Cadance" keeps original effect + reactivating all placed banners initial effects/damages (including the new "Leg Specialist" banner immob effect), pulsing healing for 10secs based on how many banners are down (1 banner=1,000/2 banners=2,000/3 banners=4,000) and decreasing banner cooldown by 5sec on Soldier's Orders proc. The healing numbers are total over the full 10secs.

(Middle trait options)

Anet just gave "Soldier's Comfort" 2.5sec of protection on "Marching Orders" proc. Tethering protection to the middle traits works fine with how shouts work currently. Only change would be to "Vigorous Shouts".

"Vigorous Shouts" change name to "For Great Shouts!" (cause "Vigorous Shouts" doesn't give Vigor so why call it that). Increase healing on non-ammo skill shouts, shout healing grants protection (Less protection for ammo skill shouts due to having the shout twice).

(Bottom trait options)

   These traits don't deliver enough value to the team for being in Tactics. Keeping the feel of the original "Phalanx Strength", "Roaring Reveille" and "Phalanx Strength" should be updated for team support and not just making one warrior immortal until everyone else dies. We should all be immortal together!

"Phalanx Strength" when you give yourself might grant might to nearby allies and barrier to both you and allies. 

"Empower Allies" keep original effect and ICD + grant resistance, vigor and fury for 5sec past 2,500 barrier to yourself and allies & increase your damage by 10% past 4,000 barrier for 10secs. 

"Roaring Reveille" move fury to "Marching Orders" and replace it with a unique buff of "Charge!". This buff gives a 50% chance on crit to grant might. Whenever an ally grants might from this buff "Mending Might" & "Phalanx Strength" are proc'd. 

(Minor traits)

"Mending Might" changes to, "Applying might to an ally heals both them and you".

"Empowered" keep original effect + increase healing power for each stack of might you have.

   My thoughts: Tactics is the support trait line for warrior. These changes introduce multiple playstyles of support that are strong enough to compete with each other. Minor traits that aid in support no matter which traits you choose. Top traits give banners additional damage, boons, healing and some cleanse. Middle traits grant protection, some minor boons and large healing shouts. Lower traits show strength in numbers, as the more players there are the more barrier, healing and boons are gained. Staff isn't out yet, so there's no way of telling what Staff will cover in terms of damage, utility and/or support. With a better foundation in Tactics, I don't think it'll be "Another lackluster expac warrior weapon". Or staff will solve all support warrior problems, and there's no need to rework Tactics. What do y'all think about it?

Edited July 1, 2023 by someguy.4107
Grammar corrections and clarifying opening statement

[Jzaku.9765]

You don't see the immediate, obvious, and blatant problem with having 9 different support traits in the same traitline competing with each other where you can only pick 3 in the end?

This is literally the problem with support Warrior right now. There's only 1 traitline with Support traits. Everything else is effectively a DPS traitline. Out of your 9 selected Major traits you can only have ~4 offer support related effects with no espec to offer additional baseline functionality like how Druid adds Celestial Avatar to Ranger. 

Traitlines can and should support multiple playstyles. Imagine if traits like [Building Momentum] and [Might Makes Right] weren't in Strength because people were lobbying for it to be the "DAMAGE" traitline ONLY.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Jzaku.9765

[EphemeralWallaby.7643]

Sorry, that's just too much.

For example, my main build is a might-heal build... a build that generates a ton of might, past what's needed to cap, in order to capitalize on the healing to tank... with your MM + PS, I don't think I could die even against a legendary because we'd be at constant max barrier, recovering almost immediately after any spike damage... and I'd be able to carry an entire group that way.  Also, that's before I even factor in Roaring Reveille outsourcing the MM + PS synergy to multiple people, still gaining a multiplier of PS benefits w/o having to take the trait.

~EpWa

Edited July 1, 2023 by EphemeralWallaby.7643

[someguy.4107]

31 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

You don't see the immediate, obvious, and blatant problem with having 9 different support traits in the same traitline competing with each other where you can only pick 3 in the end?

This is literally the problem with support Warrior right now. There's only 1 traitline with Support traits. Everything else is effectively a DPS traitline. Out of your 9 selected Major traits you can only have ~4 offer support related effects with no espec to offer additional baseline functionality like how Druid adds Celestial Avatar to Ranger. 

Traitlines can and should support multiple playstyles. Imagine if traits like [Building Momentum] and [Might Makes Right] weren't in Strength because people were lobbying for it to be the "DAMAGE" traitline ONLY.

   I see where you're coming from. Should have been clearer on the opening statement. Each of the traitlines, aside from the middle shout line, offer different support playstyles that deal damage. I don't want only support in Tactics. Just that Tactics should focus on different avenues of support with damage laced in. The top line, or the line for banners, would deal the increased summon damage twice per drop and pump a lot of boons for "Empowered" synergy. This would be excellent for fights that don't move around too much. The lower line, "Phalanx Strength" might barrier line, would top everyone on barrier as long as you give might, and if you're around 2 or more people you'll always be over the barrier threshold of 4,000 (or whatever it would be adjusted to) for the extra 10% damage increase. The lower trait doesn't self synergize with Empowered as much as top traits, but the purpose is to always be fighting in a group. Better for fights that move a lot.

For the play styles, I understand what you mean. Wish immob pulsed a bleed stack or two every second with how much access warrior has to immob. Would like for something in Arms to give this option for more condition builds.

[someguy.4107]

9 minutes ago, EphemeralWallaby.7643 said:

Sorry, that's just too much.

For example, my main build is a might-heal build... a build that generates a ton of might, past what's needed to cap, in order to capitalize on the healing to tank... with your MM + PS, I don't think I could die even against a legendary because we'd be at constant max barrier, recovering almost immediately after any spike damage... and I'd be able to carry an entire group that way.  Also, that's before I even factor in Roaring Reveille outsourcing the MM + PS synergy to multiple people, still gaining a multiplier of PS benefits w/o having to take the trait.

~EpWa

The numbers can always go down or up. I just wanted to get the idea of a playstyle I think would be fun to play and support the team. MM could be altered when PS is taken to just give barrier or something. I know how immortal the Might-heal is, and just want the team to feel a bit of that "Phalanx Strength" you know?

[TyrantPuppy.1893]

I actually don't hate a lot of this. Altho I don't really like making 3 competing traits all "banner choices" if that's what you were saying? I'd prefer one trait that worked different on all the banners similar to how the tools elite works on engi. : Like what if I want to support but not run banners? That'd mean a useless trait. The effects you said are solid tho.

This is very similar to old "Salvation" on Revenant that was pretty much solid support only. The problem with this is, based on whatever numbers anet decides to go with one trait in each choice' will almost always win out. i.e. outgoing healing +%, etc.

Mending might should absolutely work that way & so should empowered. I like pretty much all the effects that you said, altho I still think you're thinking 'too small' like look at Ranger support' trait line rn & get back to me. That sh*t's nuts.

-----

I'd personally love to see them bring back powerful synergy & make it also add additional effects to your finishers in addition to doubling their base effects. (Now that fields prioritize correctly.) Oh & add visual effects to square' fields like they said ~4 years ago. Might help people actually SEE the Berserker Longbow F1 and Dragon's Banner in WvW. Part of the reason it's "so strong" is because people can't see it. Definitely a thing.

[someguy.4107]

1 hour ago, TyrantPuppy.1893 said:

I actually don't hate a lot of this. Altho I don't really like making 3 competing traits all "banner choices" if that's what you were saying? I'd prefer one trait that worked different on all the banners similar to how the tools elite works on engi. : Like what if I want to support but not run banners? That'd mean a useless trait. The effects you said are solid tho.

This is very similar to old "Salvation" on Revenant that was pretty much solid support only. The problem with this is, based on whatever numbers anet decides to go with one trait in each choice' will almost always win out. i.e. outgoing healing +%, etc.

Mending might should absolutely work that way & so should empowered. I like pretty much all the effects that you said, altho I still think you're thinking 'too small' like look at Ranger support' trait line rn & get back to me. That sh*t's nuts.

-----

I'd personally love to see them bring back powerful synergy & make it also add additional effects to your finishers in addition to doubling their base effects. (Now that fields prioritize correctly.) Oh & add visual effects to square' fields like they said ~4 years ago. Might help people actually SEE the Berserker Longbow F1 and Dragon's Banner in WvW. Part of the reason it's "so strong" is because people can't see it. Definitely a thing.

"Warrior's Cunning" and "Martial Cadance" are the real banner playstyle redefining traits. Didn't what to change "Leg Specialist" due to it being so good in PvP/WvW roaming, so giving banners the immob too seems like a tame option. With banner support on these changes, you probably wouldn't go 1-1-1 in PvE. 2-1-1 for little protection would be more useful for strikes, raids, etc.

You're right about one line probably being better overall. Honestly, I just want a fun banner playstyle, and for everyone around me to be immortal with "Phalanx Strength" as well.

I think the "Power" of healing from these changes would be relative to the number of players around you. Which is how it should be. Supports shouldn't live forever on their own. (I will make a ranger to check :j)

I miss "Powerful Synergy" lol It could take a trait in Discipline. Not like anyone is taking "Vengeful Return" or "Heightened Focus".

I can never see the Harbinger Shroud 5 float skill... Ever. Troubling times indeed...

[SevenFives.2734]

1 Banner that makes skills render. Genius!

No joke I had this weird idea back when where you could chuck banners at people (allies & enemies) the allied ones would be unblockable or would stop and plant where projectile blocked, and they would pulse allied boons/barrier/whatever. And the enemy ones would do the same but in reverse.

& Then the Grandmaster shout trait would cause each shout to trigger +/- AOE effects around each banner like shades! Could even have the banners sword 4-rip-abble for extra damage or effects or reduced cooldown like engi turrets.

Just a pipe dream. But I'd dig it!! 😄 Leg specialist 100% needs to stay tho. Could even add more traits that just add "On X do Y" the CD per-target is wonderful.

[someguy.4107]

13 hours ago, SevenFives.2734 said:

1 Banner that makes skills render. Genius!

No joke I had this weird idea back when where you could chuck banners at people (allies & enemies) the allied ones would be unblockable or would stop and plant where projectile blocked, and they would pulse allied boons/barrier/whatever. And the enemy ones would do the same but in reverse.

& Then the Grandmaster shout trait would cause each shout to trigger +/- AOE effects around each banner like shades! Could even have the banners sword 4-rip-abble for extra damage or effects or reduced cooldown like engi turrets.

Just a pipe dream. But I'd dig it!! 😄 Leg specialist 100% needs to stay tho. Could even add more traits that just add "On X do Y" the CD per-target is wonderful.

Throwing banners like javelins would be the best thing ever! All banners cause 1sec knockdown unless it's Battle Standard (2sec Knockdown).

I do like Sword 4 mechanics. Would like them more if Sword 4 Rip wasn't so hard to land. Maybe a small leap to the impaled foe then rip for mobility and consistency?