Warrior builds/role roadblock

[DemonCrypto.6792]

Hi,

I would like to open a think tank with the goal of broadening and expanding comprehension towards "warrior builds and what prevents them from becoming a reality." (In simpler terms, "How can we change the fact that warriors cannot fulfill certain roles?")

First, let's talk about the "heal support warrior" role.

 

First roadblock - weapon

Warriors currently do not have a main-hand weapon that provides good shared boons and healing. 

How can we fix this?

SotO has promised a new weapon, the "staff," which could potentially serve as a boon and healing provider to overcome this roadblock.

Second roadblock - core trait line

Warriors only possess 1 and 1/3 of 2 core trait lines with dedicated support options: Tactics and Discipline (where only the Double Standards trait is considered for Discipline). 

How can we fix this?

Discipline needs two more support-focused traits. 

One possible improvement would be to replace Vengeful Return with Roaring Reveille, and swapping Heightened Focus with either Phalanx Strength or Martial Cadence could also be beneficial.

Additionally, reworking the minor traits in Tactics could be considered:

Empowered: Increases strike damage and healing power or concentration for every boon on you.

Mending Might: Applying might to an ally pulsates a heal.

These proposed changes would at least provide some flexibility for a heal-oriented build.

Third roadblock - elite specialization

Warriors lack a trait line, utility skills, or mechanics for heal support in any of their specializations. Moreover, the Berserker and Bladesworn (opposite to healers) are the specializations that received essential boons (alacrity and quickness). 

How can we fix this?

A fundamental rework of one of the specializations is needed, completely changing everything to try to integrate them with this type of gameplay. (However, personally, I would prefer to see spells providing alacrity rather than attempting to create a healing-oriented junksworn with a 100ft pole.)

 

Now, let's discuss "condition" builds on the warrior:

As you may know, warriors currently only have two condition builds: Berserker and core warrior (technically, Spellbreaker is also there, but truthfully, no trait or utility from this specialization is condition-based, so it's essentially core+)

How can we expand the variety of condition builds?

First roadblock - weapons

Warriors currently have 1 main-hand condition weapon, 2 off-hand condition weapons, and 1 two-handed condition weapon. This is restrictive. 

How can we fix it?

One way to open up new builds would be to provide conditions or hybridize lesser-used weapons.

A good candidate for this would be maces. 

Giving them condition stacks would counteract the slowness and separate them from hammer shadow and would also make sense for Berserker's primal burst (which is already condition-based). 

Another candidate would be the staff. The reasoning behind this is that we already have sufficient power-based weapons to cover all bases, and the staff could introduce gameplay that is less similar to what the warrior arsenal currently offers.

Second roadblock - core trait line

Warriors only have 1 and 1/3 core trait lines for condition gameplay (Discipline's Crack Shot only matters for longbow and other ranged weapons). 

Discipline needs to be reworked to include more weapon variations and requires two additional traits to become a fully viable trait line for condition builds. 

Additionally, Arms is also in need of a fundamental rework since critical hits and conditions don't synergize well with each other, and sword-centric traits limit the use of other weapons.

 How can we fix it?

Open up traits with weapon-specific requirements to apply to any weapon, lower the precision requirement or provide more expertise, grant longer durations for furious stacks or introduce another way to obtain them, and remove "useless" traits like Dual Wielding and Vengeful Return.

Third roadblock - elite specialization

Aside from Berserker and core warrior, there is no other elite specialization for warriors with a condition-based trait line or condition-based utilities. 

How can we fix this?

A rework of traits, specialization mechanics, and utilities is necessary.
 

Now for the subjective part, you can stop to read here if you want, this is another e spec crafting/dream.

 

Here is what I see when you ask me about Heal warrior.

Heal Warrior:

Obviously, I wouldn't make Berserker a healer (for good reason). To put it in context, Berserker is a Pact warrior from the Heart of Thorns era who, after escaping a deadly/betrayal situation, thought it would be a good idea to take a Torch and go punch the forest he is currently in. Not really a healer mindset, I would say. 

And I don't see Bladesworn as a healer either. Bladesworn warriors are loners by essence due to the unstable and point-blank explosive nature of their weaponry. Dragon Trigger is, by definition, not a cooperative move. This is why I think giving Alacrity to Bladesworn was a mistake.

 

So, this is why I believe the best candidate to be made into a healer would be Spellbreaker:

My reasons for it are that Spellbreakers are a branch of the Sunspears, an organization with Dervish and Paragon traditions. This means they have the potential to reopen these traditions after Living World Season 4. 

This gives an in-lore reason for warriors to use staffs—they want to reform a united Elona. But they can't walk around with lances as it would reopen old wounds. So they use only the shaft of the lance to retain the techniques without the symbolism. And because the only real enemies are the desert beasts and traps, they attach scented herbs and incense to the staffs to keep them at bay and support their allies.

 

Heal Alacrity Spellbreaker:

 

Utilities:

Rework meditations to have unique buffs (like stances on Soulbeast) and rework them to be shareable and provide Alacrity through traits.

Natural Healing: 5-pulse heal, cleanse (unique buff), and give Barrier if the ally is already at full health.

Featherfoot Grace: Shared stability and swiftness.

Sight Beyond Sight: Same, but give Fury and Might.

Imminent Threat: Only war (taunt), but give Aegis and Vigor.

Break Enchantments: Same, but not shareable.

Elite:

Winds of Disenchantment: Same, but increase boon duration inside the Winds for allies and pulse Protection.

 

Traits:

Change Enchantment Collapse into Overwhelming Motivation:

When taken Overwhelming Motivation:

 

Change Full Counter into Full Motivation: Shared Full Counter aura that absorbs 1 attack, deals divided damage, doesn't stun, pulses Alacrity for each attack absorbed, and grants access to a secondary utility skill bar (only the 3 middle skill ,16-second cooldown and needs to be used again to swap back).

(this is on of the big problem with war boons and heal are separated into banner and shouts and no class mechanic give flexibility , so augmenting the number of skills seems to be a possible solution to have more options)

Change Attacker's Insight into Guiding Insight: Same functionality on stun (max 5 stacks, burst skill recharges when F2 is successfully used), but grants Healing Power, Concentration, and Vitality instead.

Change Slow Counter into Slow Advantages: Full Motivation converts 2 ally conditions into corresponding boons and pulses Alacrity afterwards (lesser effect when there are no conditions).

Change Guard Counter into Guide Support: Healing Power gained by the warrior is increased by 1% per boon on allies (up to 10%).

Change Spellbreaker's Conviction into Spellbreaker Devotion: Same, except meditations become shared skills, and when a meditation buff is active on the warrior, it pulses Alacrity at 1-second intervals.

 

Weapon:

Incencing Staff: healing boons and condition damage.

Conditions given: Poison, Confusion, Torment, Burn.

Boons given: Fury, Might, Regeneration, and defensive boons.

 

1 - Throwing Incense: Throw the staff, piercing and sticking to the enemy, causing conditions on them. The staff acts as a unique debuff for the target (similar to Warrior Sword 4) and while it is piercing the enemy, it pulses conditions to other foes around them and provides healing and boons to allies nearby.

2 - Smoke Breath: The warrior blows on the incense (similar to Guardian Torch 5 but with smoke), cleansing conditions, healing, and applying soft crowd control to foes.

3 - Swift Throw: The warrior throws the staff in quick succession, causing confusion and poison.

4 - Planting Strike: The warrior forcefully plants the staff (blasting combo), causing an AoE knockdown and granting stability in the area.

5 - Peculiar Incense Blend: Grants a unique 2-stack ammunition buff to allies (similar to Thief's Scale Venom) and provides regeneration.

Burst - Guiding Embers: Creates a smoke field around the warrior that pulses boons, barrier, blindness, and burning.

[eXruina.4956]

10 minutes ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

In simpler terms, "How can we change the fact that warriors cannot fulfill certain roles?"

We can't, but they can, they just haven't, for a decade, because.. reasons. 🤣

 

But they're "seemingly" working on it. 😁

 

So lets be positive and say we're giving them the benefit of the doubt. 🙂

[DemonCrypto.6792]

too be fair they don't exactly have a proper  suggestion box. or people to read what would be in the box

So for now i do the second best , the forum

 

 

[Jzaku.9765]

Hey, glad to see that at least one other person cares about Warrior issues deeper than 3 spins vs 1. 

Your thread is massive so I'll try to summarize sections.

 

5 hours ago, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

• Everything about Condi Damage on Core

IMO, this is total non-issue. There are many other classes that struggle to create a functional Condi build on their core specs. Not all especs need to support both Condi and Power, nor should they. Remember that every new trait you create to enable Condi builds on previously Power-focused especs is a trait you are removing entirely in it's place.

The bigger your sweeping reworks to core traitlines to enable this, the more work you create for yourself trying to balance the current #2 on the DPS charts in Condi Berserker.

 I would simply buff Core Sword and Longbow Burst Skills, [Flurry] and [Combustive Shot] since Berserker doesn't cast these skills at all and they are frankly awful. Remember that Core Warrior is getting Torch from Berserker with the expac too.

 

Quote

• Heal Warrior's traitline and weapon issues

I think you are missing the train of thought that Warrior just needs to be able to have a support-related BURST SKILL, as this turns every adrenaline related trait into a "support trait". It is the fundamental class mechanic of Warrior, and you will need Adrenaline traits just as any other build.

E.g., now the entire Discipline line is helping with your support by lowering Burst CDs, filling your adrenaline, and giving you faster access to your other supportive set with zero changes. The only real change you would want is removing [Vengeful Return] for anything, like [Roaring Reveille] like you suggest.

 

Quote

• Tactics Reworks

The most pressing issue is that because Warrior's especs don't add new support mechanics to the class mechanic (e.g., Firebrand F2/F3 Tome and Druid Celestial Avatar adding literally 5+ skills all relating to support as their spec mechanic), a Warrior support trait needs to look absolutely busted to compete.  What the hell are traits like [Marching Orders], [Empower Allies], and [Phalanx Strength] doing in 2023 GW2? There are specs that provide permanent 25 might with ZERO INVESTMENT in current year. These could all be merged into a single and still not be out of line for the power level of 2023 GW2.

As the absolute trash that the Soldier's Focus mechanic is and the new [Heat the Soul] has proven, ICDs triggered on Burst Skill feel like complete garbage on Warrior. [Soldier's Comfort] could do with no ICD (scaling on Burst level) and [Martial Cadence] should grant Stability another way while being shuffled into a position where it competes with a DPS trait. I would suggest something like:

• [Martial Cadence]: When you grant Stability to yourself, copy it onto allies. Using your Healing skill grants you Stability. 

Also, Shout Heal is an absolutely awful concept and falls exactly into:

Quote

Improving the feeling of moment-to-moment gameplay for many boon support builds. We want these builds to have more flexibility in their utility skill choice, and not be required to press a particular utility type on cooldown to provide quickness or alacrity.

Where's the utility skill flexibility when Warrior is expected to take at least 2 Shouts to even Heal? 

 

Quote

• Warrior Especs having 0 synergy with support builds

I agree with you that it is very concerning that they chose Bladesworn as the Alac spec since it has a fixed Burst skill replacement that is decidedly not support themed. However, I think this can be fixed without sweeping reworks. For example, something like:

• [Rallying Rout]: Grant Barrier to allies when you disable a foe. This trait always triggers on defiant foes. (Healing scales non-linearly with disable duration, disable duration being exactly like how breakbar is calculated).
  This lets Bladesworn get in on the support action with access to one of the only 5s stuns in the game. CC is one of Warrior's core Identities and all of it's especs can choose to do a lot of it. This also includes shuffling the current effects of [Daring Dragon] into another slot.
  this needs to be slotted somewhere (probably in Defense Adept or Grandmaster, dodging the Adrenaline gain trait [Merciless Hammer]) to make it an alternative to Discipline for support. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Jzaku.9765

[feeper.5287]

Really cool ideas and I totally agree it makes no sense as to why Zerk and Bladesworn got quick/alac over Spellbreaker. Some of the stuff you're proposing wouldn't work (such as changing attacker's insight, changing enchantment collapse) as they are needed for dps/pvp/wvw builds to exist but changing major traits (namely guard counter and revenge counter) could def work. Another issue we need a reliable way to apply quick/alac outside of combat that doesn't rely on adrenaline/bursting otherwise the build will be handicapped slightly but overall very nice post friend 🙂

[DemonCrypto.6792]

2 minutes ago, feeper.5287 said:

such as changing attacker's insight, changing enchantment collapse

When taken Overwhelming Motivation: Change Attacker's Insight into Guiding Insight.
If you don't take Overwhelming Motivationthe trait stay the same.
This is to not destroy Dps builds

[Xperiment.6923]

I'd like to state for the record Vengeful Return is Support! When your downstate in pvp along with teamies...You pop up and drop your Rez banner. 

 

But man.....Bring on the Offhand F2 Bursts already...and mayhaps we can fill some of these holes.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Xperiment.6923

[DemonCrypto.6792]

8 hours ago, Xperiment.6923 said:

When your downstate in pvp along with teamies...You pop up and drop your Rez banner. 

you can do that without vengeful return.

it only prove that you will take this trait not to help or support , but because you have the certainty you are gonna get downed.

This trait is only there to falsy improve down state,because in the end someone who dwned you once can do it twice, can just run away and can  chain cc you too death. an d on your side you have to pray to the RNG gods in the rare chance you kill your ennemis to trigger a full return, having more chance or less more life or less work on paper but not if your enemis is defacto stronger than you to begin with.(he prove it by downing you)

[DemonCrypto.6792]

19 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

The bigger your sweeping reworks to core traitlines to enable this, the more work you create for yourself trying to balance the current #2 on the DPS charts in Condi Berserker.

 I would simply buff Core Sword and Longbow Burst Skills, [Flurry] and [Combustive Shot] since Berserker doesn't cast these skills at all and they are frankly awful. Remember that Core Warrior is getting Torch from Berserker with the expac too.

 

Indeed berserker is in a good place for condi.

That isn't the true issue , Weaponmastery will open torch to all e spec, but does that open new condi builds ? 
not really . If condi build is better stronger easier on berserker would torch will  go anywhere or stay with berserker?

Buffing sword and longbow only bind condi to these weapon,what would happen if by exemple staff was a condition weapon, it would be a novelty and promply die.Why? because of sword  and long bow better synergy  with trait.

This mean any new weapon who could be condi would be de facto worst , crippleing any variation or diversification warrior could have.

I mean condi berserker  is ok now but would you prefer to have no alternatives because it's  the second best of them all or have a good inoff condi bladesworn or condi spellbreaker for variation because the encounter you have next need a little boon strip or work better with big single bursts .

I would at any time prefer to have diversity (and anyway nerf can still happen and kick down condi berserk so a descent plan "b" would ease the pain).

Edited July 9, 2023 by DemonCrypto.6792

[feeper.5287]

On 7/8/2023 at 4:44 PM, DemonCrypto.6792 said:

When taken Overwhelming Motivation: Change Attacker's Insight into Guiding Insight.
If you don't take Overwhelming Motivationthe trait stay the same.
This is to not destroy Dps builds

Ah it appears I cannot read 😛