Heal Mesmer Stonks Way Up

[Mevelios.4809]

5 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

You quite obviously do not play the game.

If I got the idea right, it's the opposition between firebrands not having any benefit from casting the mantra on its own (such as Mantra of potence) against the mesmer actually gaining something out of it (the might stacks from the preparation of Mantra of pain) and a trait that may reinforce them (Restorative mantras). Instead, the firebrand gets a third, more potent cast at the cost of remaining idle for two seconds.

There's then indeed the question of whether the benefit is worth the lengthy cast; I'd definitely side with those who think it isn't sadly. They didn't age well IMO over the years.

[draxynnic.3719]

On 11/4/2023 at 5:42 AM, Mevelios.4809 said:

If I got the idea right, it's the opposition between firebrands not having any benefit from casting the mantra on its own (such as Mantra of potence) against the mesmer actually gaining something out of it (the might stacks from the preparation of Mantra of pain) and a trait that may reinforce them (Restorative mantras). Instead, the firebrand gets a third, more potent cast at the cost of remaining idle for two seconds.

There's then indeed the question of whether the benefit is worth the lengthy cast; I'd definitely side with those who think it isn't sadly. They didn't age well IMO over the years.

Basically, yeah. Another thing mesmer gets out of it is that you regain stacks faster if you use them up and rechannel. During the time when the channels were removed, Mantra of Pain charges took 20s to recover - with the channel, you can get them back in under four seconds. Distraction takes 48 seconds to recover two charges, with the channel, you can get them back in fifteen, and the same with Resolve. Concentration is a full minute versus less than twenty seconds, while Recovery goes from 40 seconds to under fifteen. Firebrand benefited from having the channel removed because the cooldown on channelling firebrand mantras is long enough that using the final charge (even with the increased effect) was usually a mistake for most of firebrand's lifetime (recent buffs to the final charge effect have changed that) - mesmer suffered because channelling is a means to get your charges back much faster than others, and there was no compensation for this being removed. The boons you get from the channelling itself is a much lesser issue than the ability to get charges back quickly (often enough you won't be channelling at a time when you'll actually benefit from the boons). I can think of situations where mesmer was better off without channelling, but they're pretty niche, and in most cases it's just a matter of "do not use the second charge".

There is definitely an argument to be made that the lengthy channel isn't worth it in the current game, but mesmer mantras were mostly bad without the channel because you ended up with utilities that could take up to a minute to fully recharge when their effects were balanced on the assumption that it would take less than a third of that time. You'd bring them if you really needed a specific functionality and had nothing better to fill the slot with, but in most cases they were pretty weak.

This is not to say that they couldn't have been balanced to be functional without the channel. They absolutely could have been. But they weren't. Between how they were before the February patch and how they are now, they are absolutely stronger now. Might they be better if instead of introducing the channel, they'd reduced the count recharge to something appropriate for the effect rather than re-introducing the channel? Perhaps. Quite likely, in fact. But my comparison was to their state prior to the February patch, compared to which they're definitely better for most purposes.

Levetty has a track record of responding to pretty much any disagreement with some variant of "you don't play the game" sooner or later, so it's basically background noise now.

[mirage.8046]

the two mantras worth using are concentration and resolve. mantra of pain has been meta but honestly, it's the first skill I replace if I need a different utility. if mantras pulsed their effect while channeling, that could be justifiable with the lengthy cast times. stripping conditions during resolve's 2 1/2 cast time would be far better than finishing the channel to remove conditions. when mantras lost their channeling a year ago, they became unbalanced because you could use them on demand with no bonuses. an instant daze with no cast time was not healthy.   I don't expect them to change, but right now they're serviceable.


on another note, I wish mesmer had an elite mantra because it stinks to bring the same old mantras, and there's little variation for the elite slot.