Virtuoso: Power or Condi for Group PvE (fractals/raids)?

[Toasty.8925]

I happened to have a Power set already and transferred it onto my Virtuoso. It feels okay but wondering if I should stat reroll. 

I am currently using a celestial build for Open World as it does good enough damage with a lot of survivability.

[Mouse.7382]

Either or...I play em both with a high perference on condi.

 

Power is just more clunkly than condi, and the power dps is no better, for a harder rotation.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

Mesmer is, I think, better at Condi overall. We have strike builds but since day 0 the mesmer has never been direct. We were the Torment class at launch, most of our kit is either torment or confusion flavored with a nice sprinkling of almost all other conditions. In the end it's up to you but condi is probably easier.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

1 hour ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Mesmer is, I think, better at Condi overall. We have strike builds but since day 0 the mesmer has never been direct. We were the Torment class at launch, most of our kit is either torment or confusion flavored with a nice sprinkling of almost all other conditions. In the end it's up to you but condi is probably easier.

You don't know what you're talking about. You need to realize that your personal biases are not the gospel truth.

Chronomancer does not have a viable condition build. But they have a power build which is perfectly viable in all group PVE content. And it's liked because it's the most flexible build in the game. Able to be offensive support or straight DPS with the change of only one trait.

 

The question wasn't about Mesmer in general though it was about Virtuoso. And Power Virtuoso since release has been viable. Condi Virtuoso currently does do higher DPS and easier but Power Virtuoso is good enough for virtually all group content.

Plower Virtuoso is the recommended spec for WVW though. It is very good just condi is easier in PVE.

Mirage is the least capable eSpec to make Power builds but that doesn't mean they don't have their place.

Greatsword with the Mirage ambushes do good AOE damage but most end game content needs single target damage not AOE. 

Sword can hold it's own but it's more of a solo weapon or WVW than a group PVE build.

 

[ShadowKatt.6740]

Do you have ANY windows left in that glass house of yours?

1 hour ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

The question wasn't about Mesmer in general though it was about Virtuoso.

And then you go on to talk about both Chrono AND Mirage. I don't even need to put in any actual work. I just have to take your own words, apply them to your own words, and you do all the work for me. So why don't you get off your pedestal because you aren't Gods gift to forums either.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

If it's specifically gearing for instanced content then maybe you can look into Chrono instead? Especially since you already have a set of power gear. The reason is because Chrono can flexibly switch between Alac or Quick, and so it has an easier time getting into any LFG groups than being just pure DPS like Virtuoso. This is especially true for Fractals since you mentioned it, and also Strikes (most of these groups look to fill heal/boon roles first before letting DPS in).

Another advantage is that gearing for high tier Fractals can get very expensive (due to the massive gold sink the whole attunement/infusion system is), so having a flexible build like Chrono helps a ton as it helps you save a lot of resources. Plus, as a hidden benefit, being Alac/Quick DPS will make people ignore your DPS output entirely. They only care if you can keep the boons 100% up, which Chrono can easily do with 2 buttons. So you can be sure that you don't have to deal with any random DPS complaints. 

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

2 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Mirage is the least capable eSpec to make Power builds but that doesn't mean they don't have their place.

Greatsword with the Mirage ambushes do good AOE damage but most end game content needs single target damage not AOE. 

Sword can hold it's own but it's more of a solo weapon or WVW than a group PVE build.

I've been using sword Mirage in Fractals to great success. It's mainly because its boonstrip capability is terrifying, and many players were caught surprised whenever I use it.

Fractals can get messy whenever that "enemies gain boons on hit" instability is up, to the point where the difference in bringing boonstrip or not is insane. Average groups can sometimes fail due to being surrounded with a large number of enemies with an overwhelming boon bar (looking at you, Siren's Reef and Mai Trin!), yet most classes only have limited access to boonstrip. This is such night and day compared to sword Mirage, who can rip 5+ boons off just by auto attacking and Ambushing (1 from the sword attack chain, 1 from the Ambush, 2 from Vicious Expression, and 1 from Dune Cloak), more if you have Clones or bring Null Field.

This is why most groups I'm in are caught in awe whenever they see me strip these 10+ boons enemies cleanly naked for them to cut down.

Edited November 16, 2023 by ZephidelGRS.9520

[Roadkizzle.2157]

9 hours ago, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Do you have ANY windows left in that glass house of yours?

And then you go on to talk about both Chrono AND Mirage. I don't even need to put in any actual work. I just have to take your own words, apply them to your own words, and you do all the work for me. So why don't you get off your pedestal because you aren't Gods gift to forums either.

Nah. I'm good.

I agree that I also have my own biases and experiences.

But I don't convince myself that my biases and experiences are universal truths. And when I'm making recommendations on them I work to make it clear that I'm providing my recommendations based on my personal experiences.

I was responding to you. You said that mesmer as a whole is condition focused and I was refuting you specifically.

I was trying to point out that your response was useless for the OPs question because they weren't asking about mesmer as a whole they were specifically asking about Virtuoso in Group content. 

So I made an effort to actually answer the OPs question while pushing back against your misinformation.

You've made it clear that you don't play group content significantly. And that you spend the majority of the time in the game as a staff core mesmer. So I understand your biases but you constantly are insisting that one facet of the game and you're specific experiences within it are the sum total of the Mesmer experience in GW2.

I play 95% of my game time here solo open world like you. But I also play a bit of WVW and enjoy group PVE.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

As a whole class condition mesmer is in a pretty bad place right now.

 

Condi Virtuoso is the only viable condition build Mesmer has in group PVE. 

Condition Chrono hasn't existed since before I started playing 1 year ago and Mirage has had it's ups and downs. It was only really useful on about 2-4 bosses in raids since I started playing but since they destroyed the damage the confusion condition does in June the eSpec is now the least played eSpec in all of group PVE.

 

Condi Virtuoso is the top played espec in all of group PVE though. But it's the only condi build that mesmer currently has in group PVE...

 

Condi Chronomancer and Mirage may come back with the changes at the end of November though. The Phantasm change alone will likely give them a good boost of damage. But the numbers of that are not known yet so who knows.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Roadkizzle.2157

[Roadkizzle.2157]

9 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

I've been using sword Mirage in Fractals to great success. It's mainly because its boonstrip capability is terrifying, and many players were caught surprised whenever I use it.

Fractals can get messy whenever that "enemies gain boons on hit" instability is up, to the point where the difference in bringing boonstrip or not is insane. Average groups can sometimes fail due to being surrounded with a large number of enemies with an overwhelming boon bar (looking at you, Siren's Reef and Mai Trin!), yet most classes only have limited access to boonstrip. This is such night and day compared to sword Mirage, who can rip 5+ boons off just by auto attacking and Ambushing (1 from the sword attack chain, 1 from the Ambush, 2 from Vicious Expression, and 1 from Dune Cloak), more if you have Clones or bring Null Field.

This is why most groups I'm in are caught in awe whenever they see me strip these 10+ boons enemies cleanly naked for them to cut down.

What traitline do you use? Because Domination removes 2 boons on Disable... So if you have 3 clones with either sword or dagger you'll remove 8 boons each Ambush attack.

 

But those are single target boon removals. Domination also gives boon removal on Shatters for AOE strip and Null Field.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

1 hour ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

What traitline do you use? Because Domination removes 2 boons on Disable... So if you have 3 clones with either sword or dagger you'll remove 8 boons each Ambush attack.

 

But those are single target boon removals. Domination also gives boon removal on Shatters for AOE strip and Null Field.

I use Domination 2-2-1, Dueling 1-3-1. I share gear between my Chrono and power Mirage so my gear is more oriented toward Chrono. I mostly use Marauder with some Assassin pieces to cap crit chance exactly at 100% with Fury. This is to take advantage of Dueling's Superiority Complex and Chrono's Improved Alacrity.  

And I use Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon because Clones already don't do any strike damage, so having them Ambushing isn't as valuable as Dune Cloak where it both damages and rips boons. So my cap is 5 but that should be more than enough for the Fractal context. Obviously with your setup it's more powerful, and it proves power Mirage's boonstrip is even more terrifying. 

 

[Exciton.8942]

Power for fractal(except for 99/100cm). Condi for everything else. For certain raid/strike bosses where condi is bad, virt is in general not a good choice there.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Exciton.8942