[Suggestions] Remove traits and balance only skills and gear stats.

[Hot Boy.7138]

@JTGuevara.9018 said:The old trait system from release to 2014 was much better, I think. Here's why.

The old system allowed you to put up points into any line you wanted. It was reminiscent of the old WoW system and gw1. The new system, however, you have to take a full spec line and ditch the rest. It took away build diversity, in a way. On top of that, that's where the powercreep really started. The old trait system allowed for only two full lines plus the leftover points which you can spec wherever you wanted. The current system, however, gives you three full trait lines. That's giving away 10 more points.

I was happy when they changed the traitlines to what we have now because they drastically improved the traits. But you're right, it was improved. each trait was made more impactful and more powerful. And that was the beginning of power creep. I wouldn't want to see a return to the old traits. I like that stats are not built into the traits, but it's not a good idea to have so many damage multipliers accessible in a single build with the current set up. It works well for pve, but not so much for pvp. I have no ideas on what good balance would be.

[JTGuevara.9018]

@Hot Boy.7138 said:

@JTGuevara.9018 said:The old trait system from release to 2014 was much better, I think. Here's why.

The old system allowed you to put up points into any line you wanted. It was reminiscent of the old WoW system and gw1. The new system, however, you have to take a full spec line and ditch the rest. It took away build diversity, in a way. On top of that, that's where the powercreep

really

started. The old trait system allowed for only

two

full lines plus the leftover points which you can spec wherever you wanted. The current system, however, gives you three full trait lines. That's giving away 10 more points.

I was happy when they changed the traitlines to what we have now because they drastically improved the traits. But you're right, it was improved. each trait was made more impactful and more powerful. And that was the beginning of power creep. I wouldn't want to see a return to the old traits. I like that stats are not built into the traits, but it's not a good idea to have so many damage multipliers accessible in a single build with the current set up. It works well for pve, but not so much for pvp. I have no ideas on what good balance would be.

Aahh, but here's the thing: stats built into traits are tradeoffs. Any game benefits when there tradeoffs, they keep that same powercreep in check as well as encourage players to adapt. Of course, I don't think people noticed this back then as the game was new and they took the system for granted. Now? Heh...!

Also, people need to understand: You can either have power or balance, you can't have both!

[Hot Boy.7138]

@JTGuevara.9018 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:

@JTGuevara.9018 said:The old trait system from release to 2014 was much better, I think. Here's why.

The old system allowed you to put up points into any line you wanted. It was reminiscent of the old WoW system and gw1. The new system, however, you have to take a full spec line and ditch the rest. It took away build diversity, in a way. On top of that, that's where the powercreep

really

started. The old trait system allowed for only

two

full lines plus the leftover points which you can spec wherever you wanted. The current system, however, gives you three full trait lines. That's giving away 10 more points.

I was happy when they changed the traitlines to what we have now because they drastically improved the traits. But you're right, it was improved. each trait was made more impactful and more powerful. And that was the beginning of power creep. I wouldn't want to see a return to the old traits. I like that stats are not built into the traits, but it's not a good idea to have so many damage multipliers accessible in a single build with the current set up. It works well for pve, but not so much for pvp. I have no ideas on what good balance would be.

Aahh, but here's the thing: stats built into traits are

tradeoffs

. Any game benefits when there tradeoffs, they keep that same powercreep in check as well as encourage players to adapt. Of course, I don't think people noticed this back then as the game was new and they took the system for granted. Now? Heh...!

Also, people need to understand:

You can either have power or balance, you can't have both!

I wouldn't mind if traits were changed to offer a lot more utility have the power only come from stats. Power is cool when you like to see big numbers, utility is more fun for gameplay.

[rdigeri.7935]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"rdigeri.7935" said:Imagine if each skill would require a feat to get in pve. What an adventure.

Back in the early beta it used to be like this to get traits. They scrapped in on release. They added it back when they added "quests" to unlock specific grandmaster traits. Nobody liked it and the whole concept went to the trash can. So yeah I can imagine if skills require -something- to get in PVE: it would be a pointless and absolutely atrocious experience.

Nice necro post.

Hmm, that's good to know. I wonder why people didn't like it.

[Shado Urufu.6309]

On 12/3/2017 at 9:59 AM, Wandering Mist.2973 said:

Very true. "Perfect balance" in a game is actually a bad thing. I'm terrible at explaining this kind of thing, so I'll let these guys do it instead:

 

Now in terms of balancing for GW2, it's important that you can separate PvP and PvE for balancing. PvP balancing can more or less sort itself out as long as every class and build has some form of weakness that other classes and builds can exploit. This will allow the meta to keep shifting as players figure out ways to counter whatever the most popular build is, using the tools they have available to them. Balancing for PvE is a lot harder because it requires the implementation of PvE content that requires certain aspects that force players to change their builds based on the encounter. There are mechanics like this already, but the problem we face right now is that certain classes can provide literally everything needed for all situations. It doesn't matter how many different kinds of bosses or mechanics you create if all of them can be beaten by the exact same team set up, which is where the stale meta comes from. Why take a Guardian tank over a Chrono tank when the Chrono provides more survivability and offensive boons in literally every situation?

If you want balance and options you have to make certain classes and builds weaker in some situations, otherwise people will just run the exact same set up for every encounter.

In all honesty, and I don't really care how old the post is either, I do not think balancing for PvE should really be a thing, unless it's to make sure that all classes, and all builds, can do all types of content. 

Nothing is more gut punching that investing months of your time into something, a build you like, getting all the parts needed, etc.. Only to find out that how you liked to play that specific class is now unable to make progress. It happened to me on my D/D D/D thief/daredevil, while trying to go through the Heart of Maguuma content. I was literally stalled by the final boss, because my char, who had been getting everything done up until that point, could not even beat the final story boss due to utter lack of damage. 
And then they get walled by Path of Fire content. 

I had to go through the entire story once again, on my newly unlocked Reaper, just to complete that content. Yes, the class was, funtionally, immortal, least the way I built it, which meant I had fun actually go through the content once again. 
Right up until it also got walled. My damage was now too low to keep going, minion kept dying left and right. 

I am now on my third 'story char' and have gotten 100% of the maps in every instances/DLC, and completed the Secrets of Obscure story. And I'm at the point where it feels like I, once again, need to roll out a new char because I can't continue with the current content.. [A lot of the old passives/things that made my build fun and viable are now gone. Not just balanced, but completely and utterly removed from the game.] 

 

For someone who only plays when Anet releases new story content, this is not a fun experience. I don't care for PvP or W/W, and I know balancing is required for those with each new updates. But as far as PvE is concerned, even the least ready player [exotic gear, or maybe even just rare if they're unlucky/not wanting to purchase in the shop, with no runes, etc..] should be able to make it through most of the story content. And this, to me, includes map events, as a lot of the new story contents actually require you to take part in those map events. Often times, solo.