7/9 games decided by matchmaker

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Anet should in general realize that different roles should be rewarded for different tasks differently. This also requires recognizing which role (or at least in which category of the holy trinity) a build falls. A burn firebrand is not comparable to a support firebrand for example. Probably easiest thing to take into account is the amulet but there are other more sophisticated ways for sure. Just matching amulets with the elite spec tho, would result in a matrix of still manageable size while probably already giving a pretty good estimate what to expect from that character. Imo that's also a mandatory feature for the matchmaker to ensure proper team compositions and not match a team with support, team fighters and a roamer against only roamer builds with no support or kitten like that and I think it's kinda mind-boggling that GW2 still doesn't have that after 12 years. Well.. not so mind-boggling when you consider that PvP has been abandoned since at least 9 years ago but still.

I do realize that a really good system for that is hard to execute in a complex game like gw2 but there certainly are ways (other games can do it too, even just third-party rating tools exist for some games) and even just a semi-decent system will be magnitudes more fair than just looking at wins and losses.

It really isnt that difficult though. For example, anybody with healing over 600 is not going to be running around "ganking" people like a scrapper. 600+ healing is clearly a support based build, which is dependent on its teams performance. Becuase you cannot carry as support in this wide MMR, then their are two options. A; give less point loss or more point gain for +600 healing specs.. so that they can still climb to their true skill level. B; Cap the MMR to elo (g1-g3 etc), so that supports get DPS of similar level to the enemy DPS, which means a decent support can actually make the difference, like any skilled player should.

 

These are genuinely easy changes.. both of which would encourage more support players, which in turn would support more group fight builds, increasing spec diversity. The game is so polarised now, the average player is bunkering up on things like scourge, while the pro players are gravitating to roamers like Hollo. That makes the game absolute hell for a lot of players inbetween the spec polarisation, and MMR skill gaps for roamers.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

ALL match outcomes are determined by the matchmaker. That's literally it's job. 

Forcing a 50/50 winrate. 

Players are just a pawn the matchmaker moves around. 

The outcome of matches is predictable. 

Won a match? Statistically, given enough matches played, you are supposed to lose the next one. 

You know, matches being a coin flip and all. 

I think the issue OP has isn't so much that it is a coin flip (probably a bad choice of words, since it sort of is) but rather the way it's more likely to be a landslide victory/loss than a close match, and it's a coin flip as to whether they are stomping or getting stomped.

Having badly matched teams can give you a 50:50 win rate, if you win it places you with bots against gods next game, if you lose it teams you with the gods against bots next game. It would give you a 50:50 win rate but it would not be fun or fair by any stretch, I think this is what the matchmaking can feel like at times.

I haven't put enough thought into it myself to really ascertain why this is. Could be game balance, could be low player population, could be match manipulation, could be all of the above.

[Quab.4106]

Guys, I don't think you understood the OP message; and I have his same issue and believe most of you don't have it because you are above the gold tier. Lemme explain:

The matchmaker puts you 4 guys in your team and 5 in the enemy one, hopefully all about the same skill range, yes, correct. But why do most of the matches look like one team is trashing the other one like they never stood a chance from the very matchmaking process?

In the "elo hello" like someone called it, by minute 12 (left in match) you can already tell which team is going to win; this is what the OP is wondering and I can confirm. In the best of cases and the win chance is literally 50%, shouldn't then the score of the match go somewhat 50% for each team? Why after the first three of four battles the score goes 80/20 %?

This is beside the skill issue, top players, AFKers, etc. both teams have those and the matchmaking says both team are almost equal in terms of skill; then why one of the teams end up stomping the other one like they were way superior in skill, top players, etc.?

The other day I played a tournament, my first one, and I was like "this week is PvP rush, there are going to be a lot of noobs to farm". Ended up against two teams of players that started the match saying "gg, bad luck in the matchmaking, GL next time. Happy leg farming!" before the first fight and went spawn camping us mercilessly. I assume that was actually the matchmaking problem...? Well, this is not what this thread is about.

I'm new to PvP so I cannot tell, but the OP seems to be more experienced and still has this imbalanced teams skills issue; and the lower you are in the ladder, the worse it is. I wonder if there could be something we could do that we are missing? Coz sitting semi-AFK knowing the match is lost and the enemy team still hasn't reach the 250 score feels a bit odd. If there is actually a way to fight for the win of a match that just started but already looking lost, please let us know!

[Cuks.8241]

@Quab.4106 if you are low elo you shouldn't worry about it. I understand that at high level team composition and matchmaking is important. If you are bronze or low silver all that matters is that you improve and you will win most players regardless of the matchmaking, builds and such. Because mechanical skill and knowledge is very important in this game.

Maybe you should ask those 2 players what they meant. Maybe they were just good and knew that you don't stand a chance against them (if I understood correctly). It's a tournament not ladder, I have no idea how matches are picked there but I would guess it's not elo.

[Bunbury.8472]

 

21 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Now you have to ascend to god lvl player skill wise to carry/farm even high plats duo occasionally 

unironically, yes

the actual endgame is fighting naru and his duo basically every match. there are 130 plat accounts in NA. this is the game now.

the skill gaps are massive now. there are very few actually good players playing pvp, so if you want to be basically top 100 you need to be able to beat other plat players and not just cry when their duo is on the other team.

Edited January 30 by Bunbury.8472

[draxynnic.3719]

On 1/30/2024 at 6:29 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

Snowball effect is something that is present in most pvp games. Now I'm not saying that all the games author listed are this way due to snowball because we're talking about a solo queue system in a team game. A team needs to play as a team to snowball efficiently. But in any case an early advantage can often lead to snowball.

It is not unusual in competitive games that even when teams are very equal the final scoreboards have huge gaps.

For example, this happens a lot in my experience. You will have a very close initial team fight and you only lose it because of minor details. Maybe you went for a bad stomp and didn't make it and lost a fight. The fight might turn in your favour if it would be repeated and things look very balanced in that fight. But after that fight all goes downhill. Enemy gets advantage, your team doesn't regroup, they trickle back alone, they get frustrated, they try to force with bad and risky rotations... 

Keep in mind also that the better the players, the better they will know how to keep an advantage and snowball it. They will bleed you out slowly, they will take a point and not just relinquish it, it will not be easy to get it back. They will take the advantage when you're trying to stabilise to take the objective. And some objectives are really strong and snowbally in this game.

I don't think it's entirely that. A few years ago, when the matchmaking felt a bit better, I used to say that the initial fight was a fairly weak predictor of who would win the match overall. Sure, snowballs could occur, but you could also have situations where the team that wins the first fight grows overconfident, the other team correctly identifies why they lost and adjusts accordingly, or the team that won the teamfight happens to have a strong 4v4 teamfight but falls down when the match switches to rotation. Obviously, if people give up after the first fight it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, but in games where it feels like both teams have equal skill, I'd guesstimate it's only about a 60% predictor of who wins in the end. 

On 1/30/2024 at 11:53 PM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

ALL match outcomes are determined by the matchmaker. That's literally it's job. 

Forcing a 50/50 winrate. 

Players are just a pawn the matchmaker moves around. 

The outcome of matches is predictable. 

Won a match? Statistically, given enough matches played, you are supposed to lose the next one. 

You know, matches being a coin flip and all. 

That's not how it's supposed to work, though? It's not supposed to force a 50% winrate so you alternate between easy wins and near-certain losses. It's supposed to make matches where the chance of each side winning is as close to even as possible, so the outcome is decided by which team plays better than the matchmaker expected.

The operation you describe is how PvP games die. Human psychology feels negative experiences five times greater than positive ones, so an easy unsatisfying win does little to offset the frustration of unwinnable games. Meanwhile, a close loss can feel almost as good as a close win (as long as it doesn't feel like one particular player threw the match) because those are the sorts of games that are fun regardless of the outcome.

On 1/30/2024 at 9:31 AM, Flowki.7194 said:

Thats the problem with full support, or even hybrid support. I can get to g3, but then im the "carry" player, and get silver dps vs plat hollos etc. Then, 10-15 games of that, back down to g1.. and side noding with a fking hybrid support and getting 25-0. They geneuinely need to fix the way supports get points. If you have over 600 healing, you should have reduced point loss or increased point gain.. if they intend on keeping this god aweful MMR.

Yeah, the issue I described with the matchmaker is particularly bad for supports, since even the best support can't do much when the rest of the team is bad.