Thief Balance Ideas

[Einar.1482]

Its time radical changes come to thief. I understand those who play it will  say " it isn't overpowered", "it isn't meta" " its not meta for zerging" ":it doesn't do much dmg" etc. etc. etc. i" it has hard counters  like sic em, like  engineer revel, like Dh chain etc.:

 

Thief needs  to  have Cool downs added to  its weapon skills.  

- It's time thief plays more like revenant. a combination of lower weapon skill CDs  alongside a resource management system (in this scenario Initiative). 

 

I am fully aware that some will say that it "ruins thief" or "makes it unplayable" or whatever they may cry but its just this simple:

A CLASS  WITH NO WEAPON CDS CANNOT EXIST  IN   A GAME WITH WEAPON SKILL CDS FOR THE OTHER PROFESSIONS AND B AEDEQUATELY AND OR APPROPRIATELY BALANCED.  

Arena Net has systematically been removing CD reduction traits because even they acknowledge that they are best in slot and limited build diversity. 

- with this same principle in  mind its time that thief have weapon skill cooldowns added to their respective weapon skills. 

-Note: I do acknowledge that some tinkering regarding the thief dmg need  to be  addressed and I completely agree. 

[remorseless.6352]

Lol nice yoke noob

[Einar.1482]

I'm no noob. 

 

But  I  am right

[Zuda.4850]

Only a noob would make a post like that. I can tell by your profile picture that you play chronomancer. And experienced player would accept the thief counter and move on. But no, here you are wasting your breath. If you want to get even play Holosmith.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

What cooldowns should thieves have

Run me through some examples

[Last Crab.6054]

20 hours ago, Einar.1482 said:

Its time radical changes come to thief. I understand those who play it will  say " it isn't overpowered", "it isn't meta" " its not meta for zerging" ":it doesn't do much dmg" etc. etc. etc. i" it has hard counters  like sic em, like  engineer revel, like Dh chain etc.:

 

Thief needs  to  have Cool downs added to  its weapon skills.  

- It's time thief plays more like revenant. a combination of lower weapon skill CDs  alongside a resource management system (in this scenario Initiative). 

 

I am fully aware that some will say that it "ruins thief" or "makes it unplayable" or whatever they may cry but its just this simple:

A CLASS  WITH NO WEAPON CDS CANNOT EXIST  IN   A GAME WITH WEAPON SKILL CDS FOR THE OTHER PROFESSIONS AND B AEDEQUATELY AND OR APPROPRIATELY BALANCED.  

Arena Net has systematically been removing CD reduction traits because even they acknowledge that they are best in slot and limited build diversity. 

- with this same principle in  mind its time that thief have weapon skill cooldowns added to their respective weapon skills. 

-Note: I do acknowledge that some tinkering regarding the thief dmg need  to be  addressed and I completely agree. 

Thieves have the lowest access to weapon skills due to the global nature of initiative.

This means they use less weapons skills per minute by force, and most of their skills don't kit hard and have low utility.

This is why the DP DD kit was the most popular build for ages.

Putting cooldowns on their skills will require reworks you really don't want.

Assassin from GW1 truly brought over to this game is not something you want, and I know this because yall cant even handle heralds

[Einar.1482]

15 hours ago, Zuda.4850 said:

Only a noob would make a post like that. I can tell by your profile picture that you play chronomancer. And experienced player would accept the thief counter and move on. But no, here you are wasting your breath. If you want to get even play Holosmith.

So to clarify, because I play Mesmer I'm not allowed to have an opinion about balance? I'm very much aware of the counter that it present. 

Regardless of that, it  doesn't negate my argument. But see this is one of the few arguments that ppl make to disregard. I've got 10k hours in gw2 And am quite the experienced player which is why  I can identify  a variety of things that need reworking; thief weapon skill cds being added would be one of those. 

 

[Einar.1482]

15 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

What cooldowns should thieves have

Run me through some examples

In short, there should be weapon skill cds  applied to theif weapons. I would think that thief would  be more appropriately balanced  if it were implemented similarly to revenants energy low  cd balance. 

 

an example would be adding cd to say heart seeker  to the tune of like 4-5 sec. reduce the initiative cost of the skill this means it can be used to create stealth access but it wouldn't be as spammable. this would provide counter play opportunities that exist outside of reveal (which not every class has access to). This  would also promote weapon  rotations and  combos beyond what has effectively become (in DP Daredevil for  the last 9years)  5 (black  powder)- heart seeker/bound/ (occasional  blast) - steal into BS or just BS. 

 

I think that herald balance has a good concept of low weapon skill cds that allow it  to be pretty good but also, there is some counterplay in  terms of energy management 

[Alternatex.5734]

ive played thief or ages and never understood why people died till I played vs thief and realized how fast skills are and spamable making it really hard to counter play. stealth is easily accessible with no counter play when they dodge to stealth ect. ps no thief main will tell you they are over tuned

Edited March 16 by Alternatex.5734

[Einar.1482]

15 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

Thieves have the lowest access to weapon skills due to the global nature of initiative.

This means they use less weapons skills per minute by force, and most of their skills don't kit hard and have low utility.

This is why the DP DD kit was the most popular build for ages.

Putting cooldowns on their skills will require reworks you really don't want.

Assassin from GW1 truly brought over to this game is not something you want, and I know this because yall cant even handle heralds

I appreciate  your feedback. Respectfully though I think you're wrong. 

 

1. Thief has greater access to weapon skills  than any other class in gw2. 

- With no weapon skill  cds the only thing limiting accessibility is resource cost which is one of the few concepts that can be replenished by way of not  time.  Ofc there is the time based recharge that occurs but simultaneously there are a variety of ways in  which the player can regenerate it: entering and exiting stealth, steal, roll for imitative   and ofc  just setting a higher base amount (which technically doesn't   apply to  regen  but applies to general  pool of resource from which to pull from). 

 

I do really like how revenant plays. It  has a good  balance of low accessible skill cds and balances a resource management well. 

 

2. Thief is the only class in t he game that sits in 1 weapon set when the game doesnt  force them to.  

- note engineer, ele are examples of classes that have access to  1 weapon set while in combat and use that as such but thief  h as access  to 2 weapon sets in combat but gets nearly 100% of its dmg, sustain, and control from one. the secondary set is simply to  disengage or maybe add a  bit of cleave (primarily SB).  

[Marckan.9526]

On 3/15/2024 at 5:15 AM, Einar.1482 said:

Arena Net has systematically been removing CD reduction traits because even they acknowledge that they are best in slot and limited build diversity.

They didn't remove those trais, they implemented them by default for all places where they occurred except for a very few examples as engineers Elixir S.

 

And yes it was because they were traits that were always taken, so please ANET it's time the entire trait line Trickery on Thieves is made default, as this has been mandatory basically since launch of the game.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Using any skill should break stealth.

Revealed duration should be double what it is now.

Deadeye should get deleted from the game.

[Nepster.4275]

You screwed up by complaining with a chrono profile pic xD
People hate mesmers even if it's currently the worst class to play anywhere above gold3, anyway

As for your problem, thief hard counters mesmer, or atleast the DPS variant of chronomancer on other builds you may have an easier time dealing with but if I can give you an advice, just play something else and not mesmer, it will save you a lot of mental sanity, like go an play willbender you can braindead spam buttons and you still win any 1v1 or maybe try Holo, believe me , after 10+ years it's meaningless to complain about how thief works

And currently the problem with thief is mainly deadeye  and it's playstyle, the other builds atleast require some skill and knowledge about your matchup

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 hours ago, Einar.1482 said:

This  would also promote weapon  rotations and  combos beyond what has effectively become (in DP Daredevil for  the last 9years)  5 (black  powder)- heart seeker/bound/ (occasional  blast) - steal into BS or just BS. 

How would it do this?

Let's assume Heartseeker now has a 4/5 second cooldown, and no other cooldowns have changed. what's your rotation now? 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

How would it do this?

Let's assume Heartseeker now has a 4/5 second cooldown, and no other cooldowns have changed. what's your rotation now? 

2534f167379f280

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

21 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

2534f167379f280

Elaborate~
Weapon sets and utility names.

Edited March 17 by Azure The Heartless.3261