Ideas to make Renegade feel better post patch

[arazoth.7290]

21 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

I'm not entirely sure that's true now. The new Kalla strongly encourages, arguably forces you to cast all of the skills.

Previously, a power Ren had no reason to cast Razorclaw for example, unless you were super full of energy and looking to swap and had no other way to dump it.

Now, with empowers, you need to use it to empower Icerazor for example, because you don't want to use your stunbreak or heal for that since they're situational and more important.

However I do agree that energy is a problem for Renegade at large. Even the standard Jalis/Shiro builds consume a lot more than most other builds, and it has no way to gain it back like core or Vindi.

I don't think it's particularly stronger now than it was, just slightly different, still unable to protect itself, still some of the lowest sustain around, still just as easy to w key into the dirt.

I am thinking now about something with the elite change. I haven't tested how much it would impact though 

I think it's more beneficial damage wise if you use elite skill and then a renegade kalla skill for more damage. So razorclaw doesn't needs to be used then since it would be more beneficial to rather spend energy on a weapon skill. (for pve, pvp and WvW)

And besides this, I think on any way how kalla is played in pvp is not to spam them all at once. Anyway that build I was talking about is some offensive condi support playstyle. Needs to try it little bit more but has good sustain and good pressure in teamfights/solo.

I will test coming days more, there is still work to be done ln rene for arena net part, but there are new interesting things 

[neuroticat.5482]

I see people far more eloquent and technically savvy than me have already explained it better than I could, but I literally logged in for the first time in forever just to complain about the energy and how empowering works. The design almost seems to want you to spam your Renegades like they are attacks, as opposed to fire-and-forget spirits. So, yeah, just adding my voice to this.

((That said, even with the technical issues aside, there was a visual component to the class that I loved that is now no longer there, and no amount of balancing is going to bring it back. I can barely see my Renegades in the middle of combat they're gone so fast. I see the AoE marker longer than I see my Renegades now. I have ceased to feel like a Warband. Even if the other issues are fixed, I'm not likely to come back to this particular Elite Spec, which was the closest thing to having a Ritualist in GW2, and has now lost that.))

[Shagie.7612]

3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Anyway that build I was talking about is some offensive condi support playstyle. Needs to try it little bit more but has good sustain and good pressure in teamfights/solo.

Is this the same as the other centaur builds you guys like to play cause uhhh
I don't think those work very well in conquest. Good sustain and good pressure are not very accurate.

3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

And besides this, I think on any way how kalla is played in pvp is not to spam them all at once.

Right, but you have Barrier, Resistance, Chill (and potentially Torment from that via Corruption) and extra Torment damage built into their empowers, and Band Together only lasts 4 seconds. That's a LOT of power budget you're making choices on and potentially missing.
I don't think the war band effect works very well for the situational skills, they're reactive skills and at best you're playing around them in an "oh I guess I get a little extra this time" way, but the skills themselves are just objectively weak already. If it were truly a bonus then I'd get it, but they're not.

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Is this the same as the other centaur builds you guys like to play cause uhhh
I don't think those work very well in conquest. Good sustain and good pressure are not very accurate.

Right, but you have Barrier, Resistance, Chill (and potentially Torment from that via Corruption) and extra Torment damage built into their empowers, and Band Together only lasts 4 seconds. That's a LOT of power budget you're making choices on and potentially missing.
I don't think the war band effect works very well for the situational skills, they're reactive skills and at best you're playing around them in an "oh I guess I get a little extra this time" way, but the skills themselves are just objectively weak already. If it were truly a bonus then I'd get it, but they're not.

Centaur ofc yea, choosing mallyx wouldn't give enough support if you mix condi in it.

The nature how kalla is build, gives a lot of condi cover + additional  damaging condis, so this stacks up easily. And yes these 2 are accurate, there is ofc a skill curve.

For both condi/power/support builds are different combos prioritised a little bit with kalla stance. And you really don't spam all 4 at once, the empowerments give some nice bonuses. Get the once off that help your build/situation builds the most and mix it then with weapon attacks.

In general there is a higher skill curve set how to play with this now if you like it or not and using all warbands empowerments you can combo at once is a waste of energy. Again, choose which one you need the most for the situation. The primary effects are overall still nice without empowerment even. And the elite extra effect can be beneficial too in this. I still need to look how overall the extra damage is worth it or not but the extra aoe healing atleast is.